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Salam,

Family honor and honor killings seem to be an issue in some countries. :(

I didn't know till investigating today that Pakistan for example has thousands of honor killings, which is basically when family honor is held above loving family members and where family member(s) kill another family member due to the claim that the murdered family member dishonored the family.

Nearly 1,100 women were killed in Pakistan last year by relatives who believed they had dishonoured their families, the country's independent Human Rights Commission says.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35943732

Interestingly however, most of these honor killings are when girls/women allegedly dishonor their families.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of women are murdered by their families each year in the name of family "honor." It's difficult to get precise numbers on the phenomenon of honor killing; the murders frequently go unreported, the perpetrators unpunished, and the concept of family honor justifies the act in the eyes of some societies.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html

This is an interesting quote:

"In countries where Islam is practiced, they're called honor killings, but dowry deaths and so-called crimes of passion have a similar dynamic in that the women are killed by male family members and the crimes are perceived as excusable or understandable," said Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.

The practice, she said, "goes across cultures and across religions."

This is horrible, that in Egypt, a Christian brother killed his sister for her relationship with a Muslim. :(

 

“It was clear what happened because a few months earlier, my cousin had gotten involved with a Muslim guy in the city and her family didn’t like that. There were rumors and all that. I didn’t think much of it because our family is educated and well-off, but then when I heard the news, it became clear,” Sarah adds.

Her cousin, 22, had been murdered by her own brother after rumors surfaced in the area that she was having illicit relations with her boyfriend, a Muslim.

http://hbv-awareness.com/egypts-rise-in-honor-killings-sparks-regional-debate/

This brother disobeyed Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself, to love each other, and to love enemies. Killing does not equal loving. :(

Sad to say, there are Christians who disobey Jesus Christ.

So, what is your belief about family honor killings and what is the reference for that belief, if you believe in a holy book?

As a Christian, I believe family honor killings are murder because of Jesus Christ bringing the New Covenant. This New Covenant does not include killing people.

Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) indirectly taught his followers what to do concerning apostasy: 

From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.” - John 6:66-69 (NIV)

Jesus did not tell his followers to persecute or kill those who rejected him; he simply focused on his faithful followers.

That's why it's so important for Christians to not kill or hurt in any way those who do not follow Christian doctrines. While horribly Christians in the past (and some in the present) disobey(ed) Jesus Christ and killed those who did not follow Christian leaders, thank God most Christians nowadays understand that it's important for each person to decide what he or she believes, and not kill them for rejecting their family's beliefs.

Family honor is not protected by honor killings. Rather, honor killings hurt a family's honor more than children rejecting their parents' beliefs does.

Peace and God bless you

 

 

Edited by Christianlady

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This is a good article about the family honor killing issue, and a good quote from the article: 

“We want to send a strong message to the people that killing women in the name of family honor will no longer be tolerated by our court,” said Judge Mohammad Tarawneh of the Court of Cassation following a landmark ruling on honor killings on March 21.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/04/03/how-end-honor-killings-jordan

The following are other quotes from the article:

The ruling followed a fatwa in December from the Iftaa department, which issues religious edicts, declaring for the first time that “honor” killings are contrary to Sharia law. The fatwa said that such killings are one of society’s most heinous crimes.

Every year, 15 to 20 women and girls in Jordan are burned, beaten, or stabbed to death by family members because they are seen as having transgressed social codes of “honor.” An increase in such killings in 2016 may have prompted the authorities to finally take action.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/04/03/how-end-honor-killings-jordan

 

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This is concerning honor killings in the UK:

Diana Nammi, director of the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation - a charity that provides support to Middle Eastern women living in the UK who are facing "honour" violence - said the figures suggested incidence of the crime remained "consistently high" in the UK and that the issue was "not going away".

She said: "Unfortunately they [the figures] do not show the real extent of the problem. So many crimes are unreported because the perpetrators are often the victim's own family.

"We need a national strategy for all agencies - including police forces, courts, and schools - to be trained and to work together to end this problem."

Anisa's story

Anisa - not her real name - is a British Asian woman in her early 20s.

She has been staying in one of only a handful of safe houses in the UK just for Asian women, run by the charity Hestia, to protect her from her parents.

She says they believe she has shamed and dishonoured her family by leaving her abusive husband.

"My husband would beat me at least twice a week. If he wasn't strangling me, he was punching me and slapping me. My parents knew what was going on and they let it happen," Anisa said.

"When I ran away from my husband, my parents threatened to kill me if I didn't go back. They see it as a big dishonour, like I've slated the family name.

"I'm really scared they are going to find me and force me to go back, and if I refuse, they will kill me," she added.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33424644

It's so important to address this issue.

What is family honor?

Why do some people think it merit killing a relative??? :(

What can be done to stop family honor killings???

Peace and God bless you

 

 

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A couple of thoughts on "honour killings":

(1) Such a thing is, obviously, reprehensible and absolutely against Islamic law and ethics, and it should never be equated with Islam both by its critics and its perpetrators. Islam came to end such senseless extra-judificial violence.

(2) Honour killings in Christian, Kurdish, Yazidi communities in the Middle East also show that it has more to do with culture than religion.

(3) According to the UN, there are about 5,000 honour killings per year worldwide. The thing is, honour killings are just one category of violence against women (femicide), and it is mostly distinguished from other forms of violence for Islamophobic reasons. The country with the most violence against women in the world is actually El Salvador, yet this is never discussed in the media. Latin America, Italy, Russia, and other countries with much machismo culture have very high percentages of violence against women. If a man finds his wife cheating and kills her in the Muslim world, this is often classified as an honour killing; yet if it happens in the West, it is classified as domestic violence.

(4) In 2009, there were 8,000 "dowry killings" against women in India alone. This, for whatever reason, is not considered "honour killing", yet it claims far more female lives in one country than honour killings do in the whole world. Again, no one talks about this issue, because everyone is fixated on Muslim femicide (which, in the grand scheme of things, is quite rare) to confirm their own biases and stereotypes.

(5) Legal leniency against what is called "crimes of passion" is a Western construct, and does not exist in Islamic law. Some argue that courts in Muslim countries are too lenient on these cases, yet that is a problem that stems from the British and French legal systems and their colonization of the Muslim world. Not the shari`a. The courts that treat crimes of passion with most lenience are, again, mostly in South America.

(6) Much of the violence against women occurs societies marred with war and poverty, and is thus partly symptomatic of other causes.

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5 minutes ago, E.L King said:

 what about a man who comes home and sees his wife committing adultery with another man? I think that's an exception (maybe only).

No, even that is considered murder, and it is punishable by death.

In a country governed by shari`a, the only thing a man can do in that situation is bring 4 witnesses. If those witnesses see the penetration, then they can testify in court.

This applies to women as well.

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3 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

No, even that is considered murder, and it is punishable by death.

In a country governed by shari`a, the only thing a man can do in that situation is bring 4 witnesses. If those witnesses see the penetration, then they can testify in court.

This applies to women as well.

Not really bro. Let me show you:

2796. It is well known that if a man sees another man committing adultery with his wife, and has no fear of sustaining harm, he can kill both of them. However, it appears difficult that this order should be valid. However his wife does not become unlawful for him.

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/punishment-prescribed-certain-sins

Other ulama have said similar things. I believe this is mashoor.

Edited by E.L King

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

Not really bro. Let me show you:

2796. It is well known that if a man sees another man committing adultery with his wife, and has no fear of sustaining harm, he can kill both of them. However, it appears difficult that this order should be valid. However his wife does not become unlawful for him.

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/punishment-prescribed-certain-sins

Other ulama have said similar things. I believe this is mashoor.

This seems like a misprint to me. Yes it is the view of Shahid ath-Thani in his Sharh Lum`a and is mashhoor, but the view is lacking in evidence. @Ibn al-Hussain helped me with this issue. Sayyid al-Khoei actually rejects this - he says in his Takmila of Minhaj:

المشهور على أن من رأى زوجته يزني بها رجل و هي مطاوعة، جاز له قتلهما، و هو لا يخلو عن إشكال بل منع.

The mashhoor view is that a man who sees his wife committing adultery with another man is allowed to kill them both. However, this is not free of problems, and rather it is not permissible.

---

In his baHth istidlali, he does not accept the one narration that supports this position, because it is weak. And, Sayyid al-Khoei does not believe in the hujjiyya of the shuhra of the `ulema'. He says:

فالنتيجة: أنّ شيئاً من هذه الروايات لا يدلّ على مذهب المشهور.

In the end: These narrations do not support the mashhoor position.

---

There are narrations that go against this idea as well. In Wasa'il ash-Shi`a, there is a chapter called  ـ باب حكم من راى زوجته تزني Chapter on the ruling of one who sees his wife committing adultery. The chapter contains one hadith in total, and it goes against extra-judicial killing in this matter:

[ 34437 ] 1 ـ أحمد بن محمد البرقي في ( المحاسن ) عن علي بن محمد القاساني ، عمن حدثه ، عن عبدالله بن القاسم الجعفري ، عن أبي عبدالله ، ( عليه السلام ) ، عن أبيه ( عليه السلام ) قال : قال سعد بن عبادة : أرأيت يا رسول الله إن رأيت مع أهلي رجلا فأقتله ؟ قال : يا سعد فأين الشهود الأربعة .

Sa`d b. `Ubada said, "O Messenger of Allah! If I see my wife with another man, should I kill him?" He said, "O Sa`d, what about the four witnesses?"

---

There is also a verse in the Quran pertaining to this matter, 24:6, which says that if a man is alone and finds his wife in such a situation, then all he can do is testify in court 4 times.

Here is a hadith on this topic: If he is wrong, he is whipped. If she testifies that she is innocent, then the marriage is dissolved.

48 - في الكافي عدة من أصحابنا عن سهل بن زياد عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي - نصر عن المثنى عن زرارة قال: سئل أبو عبد الله عليه السلام عن قول الله عز وجل: والذين يرمون أزواجهم ولم يكن لهم شهداء الا أنفسهم قال: هو القاذف الذي يقذف امرأته فإذا قذفها ثم أقر أنه كذب عليها جلد الحد، وردت إليه امرأته، وان أبى الا أن يمضى فليشهد عليها أربع شهادات بالله انه لمن الصادقين، والخامسة يلعن فيها نفسه إن كان من الكاذبين، وان أرادت ان تدرء عن نفسها العذاب - والعذاب هو الرجم - شهدت أربع شهادات بالله انه لمن الكاذبين، والخامسة ان غضب الله عليها إن كان من الصادقين، فإن لم تفعل رجمت وان فعلت درأت عن نفسها الحد، ثم لا تحل له إلى يوم القيامة، قلت: أرأيت ان فرق بينهما ولهما ولد فمات؟قال ترثه أمه، وان ماتت أمه ورثه أخواله، و من قال: إنه ولد زنا جلد الحد، قلت: يرد إليه الولد إذا أقر به؟قال: لا ولا كرامة ولا يرث الابن ويرثه الابن .

 

--

Either way, we are talking about modern honour killing, and there isn't a law in Iran or Saudi Arabia or any professed Islamic state that I know of that allows one to kill their wife in this situation

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

Not really bro. Let me show you:

2796. It is well known that if a man sees another man committing adultery with his wife, and has no fear of sustaining harm, he can kill both of them. However, it appears difficult that this order should be valid. However his wife does not become unlawful for him.

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/punishment-prescribed-certain-sins

Other ulama have said similar things. I believe this is mashoor.

:salam:

While this may have been a popular opinion amongst older jurists, Sayyid Khoei didn't accept this ruling. I am not sure where this translation is from, and the website really doesn't make it clear which book of his they are translating or where they are compiling the rulings from (I have a CD of Sayyid Khoei and I was not able to find anything similar to what the English is saying - so it would be good to know where the translators got this ruling from). However, on the other hand, not only does Sayyid Khoei say this is not allowed, but in his Fiqhi discussion on this ruling he has pretty much torn apart the evidence used for establishing the validity of this ruling. I would translate portions or all of the discussion, but it will go over the head of most readers, and those who can understand Usuli/Fiqhi discussions can look it up themselves.

You can see his ruling prohibiting this in his تكملة المنهاج‏ - pg. 76, ruling # 89, and you can see his jurisprudential discussion on it in his مباني تكملة المنهاج - القصاص و الديات, pg. 102.

Wasalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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6 hours ago, Qa'im said:

A couple of thoughts on "honour killings":(1) Such a thing is, obviously, reprehensible and absolutely against Islamic law and ethics, and it should never be equated with Islam both by its critics and its perpetrators. Islam came to end such senseless extra-judificial violence.

Salam Qa'im,

If a person ever tells me, "Christianity came to end such senseless extra-judicial violence.", I would comment, "Well, it isn't doing a good job." And, I'm a Christian. :) However, I make no such claims about Christianity.

If either Christianity or Islam had truly ended "senseless extra-judicial violence", we wouldn't be discussing family honor killings right now.

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6 hours ago, Qa'im said:

(2) Honour killings in Christian, Kurdish, Yazidi communities in the Middle East also show that it has more to do with culture than religion.

Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, said the following: .

The practice, she said, "goes across cultures and across religions."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.htm

However, it is interesting that the vast majority of victims of honor killings come from Middle Eastern countries. (Christian, Kurdish, Yazidi communities in the Middle East are obviously from the Middle East - not from the West.)

 

Quote

(3) According to the UN, there are about 5,000 honour killings per year worldwide. The thing is, honour killings are just one category of violence against women (femicide), and it is mostly distinguished from other forms of violence for Islamophobic reasons.

Honor killings are distinguished from other forms of violence because the victim is killed out of worry for "family honor." Other forms of violence against women are not out of concern for "family honor" but rather due to other factors, including the case of my great grandmother. She was physically abused by her husband when he got drunk. :( He didn't beat up his wife for family honor reasons, but rather because he was drunk and got mean and horrible when drunk. :( And yes, there are many people who speak up against domestic abuse which again, has nothing to do with promoting family honor. It has everything to do with hurting families.

My addressing the abuse of my great grandfather against my great grandmother is not Christianphobia. Domestic abuse is evil, and it had nothing to do with family honor. My great grandfather brought shame to his family name; he didn't honor his family by beating up his wife.

Edited by Christianlady

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The country with the most violence against women in the world is actually El Salvador, yet this is never discussed in the media.

Out of curiosity, could you please give me a link that provides evidence of this claim? I've been to El Salvador several times, and have several awesome friends from El Salvador. I've never heard this claim before. I've also never experienced violence against me, or seen violence against women there. (However, my friends from El Salvador are awesome people!!!) :)

Personally, I don't believe it's possible for humans to know which country has the most violence against women. One reason is because many women do not report violence against them, out of fear. 

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10 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Qa'im,

If a person ever tells me, "Christianity came to end such senseless extra-judicial violence.", I would comment, "Well, it isn't doing a good job." And, I'm a Christian. :) However, I make no such claims about Christianity.

If either Christianity or Islam had truly ended "senseless extra-judicial violence", we wouldn't be discussing family honor killings right now.

Well I'm not sure if you read my entire post, but coming to an Islamic forum to address "honour killings" is quite an ignorant thing to do. There are 1.6 billion Muslims and about 5,000 "honour killings" per year worldwide, including many non-Muslim honour killings. This is called selective outrage, where thousands of hours of news is dedicated to this issue, but almost no time is dedicated to dowry killings in India or violence against women in South America, both of which are very similar and claim far more lives annually. I'd be surprised if anyone on the forum even knew a victim of honour killings, let alone support it and take part in it.

To give you an example: if I were to go to a Christian forum with a thread asking why Christians are drawn to working at strip clubs, I would raise every eyebrow in the forum. Even if I had a statistic that proved that most of these "employees" were Christian, it would be too ridiculous of an issue to discuss, because Christianity is against such behaviour, and such a tiny percentage of Christians are in that kind of work.

1 minute ago, Christianlady said:

However, it is interesting that the vast majority of victims of honor killings come from Middle Eastern countries. (Christian, Kurdish, Yazidi communities in the Middle East are obviously from the Middle East - not from the West.)

Actually, nearly half of the honour killings occur in India and Pakistan, both of which have a whole range of femicide issues.

In the Middle East, most honour killings occur in Iraq, which has faced the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam's oppression, UN sanctions on food and medicine, the 2003 U.S invasion, and the present war against ISIS. Honour killings have a strong relationship with poverty and war; both of which push people into doing things that they otherwise would never think of.

10 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

Honor killings are distinguished from other forms of violence because the victim is killed out of worry for "family honor." Other forms of violence against women are not out of concern for "family honor" but rather due to other factors

If you research this issue, you'll find that the biggest percentage of honour killings are simply men killing their unfaithful wives. That is an unfortunate and condemnable reality that exists in all parts of the world, but is just lumped in as an "honour" issue as a smear.

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7 hours ago, Qa'im said:

Latin America, Italy, Russia, and other countries with much machismo culture have very high percentages of violence against women.

Definitely it is important to nonviolently fight against violence against women around the world!!!

Quote

If a man finds his wife cheating and kills her in the Muslim world, this is often classified as an honour killing; yet if it happens in the West, it is classified as domestic violence.

The Modern Western mentality does not classify killing a woman to be due to dishonoring the family.

Quote

(4) In 2009, there were 8,000 "dowry killings" against women in India alone. This, for whatever reason, is not considered "honour killing", This, for whatever reason, is not considered "honour killing", yet it claims far more female lives in one country than honour killings do in the whole world. Again, no one talks about this issue, because everyone is fixated on Muslim femicide (which, in the grand scheme of things, is quite rare) to confirm their own biases and stereotypes.

Dowry killings have to do with greed, not  family honor.

This thread is about family honor killings, not about greed or dowry killings.

I have to go now.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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5 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

Out of curiosity, could you please give me a link that provides evidence of this claim? I've been to El Salvador several times, and have several awesome friends from El Salvador. I've never heard this claim before. I've also never experienced violence against me, or seen violence against women there. (However, my friends from El Salvador are awesome people!!!) :)

Personally, I don't believe it's possible for humans to know which country has the most violence against women. One reason is because many women do not report violence against them, out of fear. 

According to this study, El Salvador is the country with the highest femicide rate in the world, yet fewer than 3% of these cases are taken to court, and only about 1% are found guilty. So imagine that, a country that you've been to, never heard anything bad about, and have never experienced or seen violence in, is actually worse on this issue than [at least] most Muslim countries. Does that change your perspective on the Muslim world?

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According to the map there are no datas from most Muslim countries. Anyway, killing another person because of adultery is barbaric. Nations that allow this are inhumane nations. 

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9 hours ago, Qa'im said:

According to this study, El Salvador is the country with the highest femicide rate in the world, yet fewer than 3% of these cases are taken to court, and only about 1% are found guilty.

Salam Qa'im,

You stated,

Quote

"The country with the most violence against women in the world is actually El Salvador, yet this is never discussed in the media.

However, the data you provided does not take into consideration non-lethal violence (such as physical abuse) nor does it contain data from every country of the world. It only evaluates female deaths per 100,000 women.

Definitely, the USA sadly has more violence against women than El Salvador sadly does. Why? The USA is much larger than El Salvador. El Salvador is basically the size of the tiny state of Massachusetts:

http://mapfight.appspot.com/us.ma-vs-sv/massachusetts-us-el-salvador-size-comparison

If you look at the map given on this website, you will see that some of the Middle Eastern and African countries supplied no data: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/fileadmin/docs/H-Research_Notes/SAS-Research-Note-14.pdf

(The areas on the map with the grayish-green color contain no data and thus are not part of the study. Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran are included in the no data area.)

Quote

So imagine that, a country that you've been to, never heard anything bad about, and have never experienced or seen violence in, is actually worse on this issue than [at least] most Muslim countries. Does that change your perspective on the Muslim world?

Nope, because the study you provided does not include data from several Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Iraq, as well as some African Muslim countries - such as Sudan and Somalia. 

I am curious now why the Muslim countries who did not provide data did not provide data for this study?

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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(5) Legal leniency against what is called "crimes of passion" is a Western construct, and does not exist in Islamic law. Some argue that courts in Muslim countries are too lenient on these cases, yet that is a problem that stems from the British and French legal systems and their colonization of the Muslim world. Not the shari`a. The courts that treat crimes of passion with most lenience are, again, mostly in South America.

 

Are you blaming honor killings in Muslim countries on the West? Interestingly, that does remind me of how many of the victims of honor killings in Muslim countries have to do with the victim becoming allegedly too "Westernized" - such with the death of this Iraqi lady by her Dad: :(

Prosecutor Laura Reckart played a recording in which Boughey and another detective confronted Almaleki with their suspicions that he ran over Noor Almaleki because she had become too westernized and brought disrespect to the family. The 20-year-old was walking with her boyfriend's mother, Amal Khalaf, in Oct. 2009, when they both were struck; the older woman survived and was expected to testify Thursday.

"My main goal in this was to find out what happened including the honor and disrespect issue," Boughey said of the questioning.

The testimony came in the second week of Almaleki's trial on charges of first-degree murder, attempted murder, aggravated assault and leaving the scene of an accident.

Almaleki has pleaded not guilty. His lawyer said during her opening statement that the truck driver from southern Iraq was angry at the older woman and was trying to drive by her to spit on her when the woman jumped in front of his van. He swerved but could not avoid hitting her and running over his daughter. He panicked and fled after the accident, making his way to Mexico and then to London, where he was detained by customs officials and returned to the U.S.

The detectives met him at the airport in Atlanta and questioned him there.

Reckart repeatedly asked Boughey on Wednesday if Almaleki asked about his daughter's condition during questioning, during the flight from Atlanta to Phoenix or while being booked. No, the detective said, never.

Prosecutors contend Almaleki was increasingly incensed at his daughter's failure to obey him and believed she had dishonored the family by becoming too westernized. When he saw her by chance while visiting a state Department of Economic Security office in Peoria on Oct. 20, 2009, his rage overflowed, they say.

Noor Almaleki lived for 13 more days, dying shortly after her father was returned to Phoenix.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/honor-killing-trial-update-iraqi-father-killed-too-westernized-daughter-on-purpose-says-detective/

:(

Quote

(6) Much of the violence against women occurs societies marred with war and poverty, and is thus partly symptomatic of other causes.

Even during war, men can protect their families, not hurt them. There is no good excuse for honor killings or any other form of violence against women - none. War is not a good excuse either.

Peace and God bless you

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Salam Shahjee12145,

Ah, you understand this thread. :)

I am not blaming Islam for honor killings, same as I don't blame Christianity for honor killings done by disobedient Christians.

Sadly, some Christians in Egypt for example do honor killings too, but that is not a part of Christianity. :( For example:

Sarah is a 23-year-old university graduate from Aswan. She is Christian. But the story she told Bikyamasr.com earlier this year at a Cairo flat is one that is becoming more and more common across Egypt’s rural areas. Honor killings affect all women, she says, her passable English a sign of her education....

Her cousin, 22, had been murdered by her own brother after rumors surfaced in the area that she was having illicit relations with her boyfriend, a Muslim. Sarah said that she was remains sad and angry. “I will not go back to my family. It is very scary for young women in this country because even rumors can get us killed,” she added.

The brother and the sister he murdered (Sarah's cousins) were both Christians.

http://hbv-awareness.com/egypts-rise-in-honor-killings-sparks-regional-debate/

:(:(:(

In Pakistan, a Christian brother murdered his Christian sister too:

A teenage Christian girl in Pakistan was reportedly killed by her own brother this week, who reportedly smashed her head in with a log as she slept, in a so-called “honor killing” over her plans to marry. Each year hundreds of women are killed in Pakistan by family members in the name of defending family honor.

https://cruxnow.com/uncategorized/2016/06/17/christians-pakistan-not-immune-honor-killings/

:(:(:(

Since both Muslims and Christians commit honor killings in Egypt and Pakistan, this shows that it is a cultural problem. However, both Christians and Muslims in cultural regions that allow honor killings need to work to reform cultures that allow honor killings.

What do you think can be done to help stop cultures from honor killings? Thanks.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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On 2017-5-5 at 10:38 PM, Christianlady said:

What do you think can be done to help stop cultures from honor killings? 

Salam Christian Lady

I think some modern nations have moved very quickly towards abolition of the death penalty.

I like the resistance to the abolition of the death penalty in the US.

I think it should be used unequivocally for those guilty of any form of third degree murder, which includes honour killings.

So my solution is - "Restore the death penalty everywhere."

But that alone may not be enough.

We should also set up social networks which keeps track of potential victims.

That may require a fair amount of resource and technology.

We need good sociologists, psychologists, policemen etc.to pool their resources to prevent the madness before it happens.

The government should take this seriously.

On 2017-5-5 at 10:38 PM, Christianlady said:

In Pakistan, a Christian brother murdered his Christian sister

Christians and Muslims are not the only culprits.

Honour killing is also common among Hindus in India.

It is a human problem.

False pride!

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No Muslim scholar of any note, either medieval or modern, has sanctioned a man killing his wife, daughter and sister for tarnishing her or the family's honor. Not a single one! 

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Family honor killings in Sweden occur within families from the Middle East and India. Mainly Muslims families. But also Hindu. However it also happens in Christian families from/in Middle East nations. So it is not connected to a religion, but to a culture and tradition probably older than Islam and Christianity.

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Family honor killings in Sweden occur within families from the Middle East and India. Mainly Muslims families. But also Hindu. However it also happens in Christian families from/in Middle East nations. So it is not connected to a religion, but to a culture and tradition probably older than Islam and Christianity.

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