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sidnaq

American Public School Yusuf Estes

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Lol. I can't tell you how happy I am this clown has left Christianity and is now busy fleecing  another flock. 

Blaming the public schools for the million and one things that could have gone wrong with the boy. ( If this boy exists at all...btw...do you happen to have an official government list where Yusuf Estes is on at as the " Muslim chaplain' for the BOP that he claims? I think he's changed his story a couple of times regarding his claimed " job". Among other things. We occasionally have to deal with the BOP due to the incarceration of our activists.  Considering the stuff coming out of the BOP concerning extremism, including people of Salafi/Wahabist persuasion,plus the requirements for consideration for chaplaincy...color me skeptical....but I digress)

Not saying it never happens, but  I was a public school teacher for a darn long time and I never heard of a teacher changing a kid's name. I have had some kids ask to be called by something other than their given name if it was difficult. You usually have to ask the parent if that is okay. But it figures someone like Estes would play to a crowd. He's an entertainer at base.  Have fun with him.

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^ I'm just hoping for the sake of many Muslims that he IS a harmless clown who likes to tell entertaining stories. And I hope he has never been in the prisons for reals,if you get my drift. With permission to speak freely... I wouldn't trust him with the name of my dog.

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47 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ I'm just hoping for the sake of many Muslims that he IS a harmless clown who likes to tell entertaining stories. And I hope he has never been in the prisons for reals,if you get my drift. With permission to speak freely... I wouldn't trust him with the name of my dog.

He probably has been to prison with the prison ministry, it's not uncommon. I know he's not a criminal but it's like you said, he's an entertainer and a "cute lump of coal" , charming but of no value spiritually.

I find it troubling that the OP actually thinks he is knowledgeable, we have so many speakers and scholars lightyears ahead of Yusuf Estes.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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26 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ I'm not worried about him being a common criminal. I'm hoping he has been nowhere near the prisons in any capacity. Glad the Shia population is not involved with him. 

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think he has been to a prison or two.

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4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Be careful, @sidnaq I would take anything Yusuf Estes says with a salt mine or two. Not mention, he's Salafi, be really careful. 

 

 

i dont listen to him anymore, but i remember this speech.

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5 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Lol. I can't tell you how happy I am this clown has left Christianity and is now busy fleecing  another flock. 

Blaming the public schools for the million and one things that could have gone wrong with the boy. ( If this boy exists at all...btw...do you happen to have an official government list where Yusuf Estes is on at as the " Muslim chaplain' for the BOP that he claims? I think he's changed his story a couple of times regarding his claimed " job". Among other things. We occasionally have to deal with the BOP due to the incarceration of our activists.  Considering the stuff coming out of the BOP concerning extremism, including people of Salafi/Wahabist persuasion,plus the requirements for consideration for chaplaincy...color me skeptical....but I digress)

Not saying it never happens, but  I was a public school teacher for a darn long time and I never heard of a teacher changing a kid's name. I have had some kids ask to be called by something other than their given name if it was difficult. You usually have to ask the parent if that is okay. But it figures someone like Estes would play to a crowd. He's an entertainer at base.  Have fun with him.

 

listen i understand what youre saying, but i think yusuf estes also has knowledge of the public school system, and at times, these unfortuante situations can exist.Muslims growing up in a non muslim environment could get influenced by the wrong things, even a woman i knew sent her child to islamic school cuz she didnt want her kid to get exposed to music and the wrong things.this is toronto.

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^ He actually said little of substance. I'd still like to know what he thinks the school alone did.

He is just riding the bandwagon that  blames the " school system" for everything. It's not perfect, and I have my own ideas regarding that,but we educate everyone who can't afford a private ( Islamic or otherwise) school, against all challenges. We can't turn people away. I was always proud of that. ( If I could pick and choose my students like private schools can and throw out anyone I didn't want to deal with, I'd have a bang-up class,too!) The US workforce is still supposedly "the hardest working and most creative in the world". Plenty of them were educated by the public schools.

We can't control a child's total environment. I personally got tired of working my tail off and every year getting bashed by everyone from politicians taking cheap shots to parents who wanted me to do their parenting for them. 

You should have conferenced with some of the parents, of various ethnicities and tax brackets , that I did. Would open some eyes.

Was it this hypothetical boy who had a father who "had no time for him "did he say? Figures.

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2 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ Not to worry. It appears there are very few Shia folk in US prisons.

Apparently you:

1. Don't commit crimes or

2. Are too smart to get caught.

Well,it's pretty much the norm for Salafis to do dawah in prison to give the prisoners a second chance in life through Islam.

We try our best to follow the teachings of the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã and his blessed progeny (as). It seems to translate into very few Shias in prison.

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ He actually said little of substance. I'd still like to know what he thinks the school alone did.

He is just riding the bandwagon that  blames the " school system" for everything. It's not perfect, and I have my own ideas regarding that,but we educate everyone who can't afford a private ( Islamic or otherwise) school, against all challenges. We can't turn people away. I was always proud of that. ( If I could pick and choose my students like private schools can and throw out anyone I didn't want to deal with, I'd have a bang-up class,too!) The US workforce is still supposedly "the hardest working and most creative in the world". Plenty of them were educated by the public schools.

We can't control a child's total environment. I personally got tired of working my tail off and every year getting bashed by everyone from politicians taking cheap shots to parents who wanted me to do their parenting for them. 

You should have conferenced with some of the parents, of various ethnicities and tax brackets , that I did. Would open some eyes.

Was it this hypothetical boy who had a father who "had no time for him "did he say? Figures.

 

I apologize for your experience but you cannot rainbow wash the public school system, children can suffer in them , and those children should be listened to.My own mother had a friend whose son had to be taken out of one school cuz it was so bad, a public school, sure we cant always blame the system, but it would be horrible if no one listened to the poor child.And why would sheikh yusuf estes make up some boy to lie to the audience? there are others not me, saying there is something wrong with the american education system, and even if there is nothing wrong with the teachers, or curriculum, it is the students, what they indulge in sister.Sex, drugs, there is a problem to think about growing up in non muslim environments, my sisters grew up in them they were fine, but someone else wasnt fine growing up in them and eventually the parents took that kid to pakistan where he was doing much better.

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2 hours ago, sidnaq said:

I apologize for your experience but you cannot rainbow wash the public school system, children can suffer in them , and those children should be listened to.My own mother had a friend whose son had to be taken out of one school cuz it was so bad, a public school, sure we cant always blame the system, but it would be horrible if no one listened to the poor child.And why would sheikh yusuf estes make up some boy to lie to the audience? there are others not me, saying there is something wrong with the american education system, and even if there is nothing wrong with the teachers, or curriculum, it is the students, what they indulge in sister.Sex, drugs, there is a problem to think about growing up in non muslim environments, my sisters grew up in them they were fine, but someone else wasnt fine growing up in them and eventually the parents took that kid to pakistan where he was doing much better.

Sis, she isn't whitewashing the situation. She is saying that public schools are sometimes the only option. Yes indeed those kids should be listened to but there are plenty of others like your sisters who turned out fine. It is wrong to blame the students for what they get involved with, because it is the parents' responsibility to teach their children about Islam. Parents need to discuss sex, drugs and other issues involving public schools and what Islam says about each issue with their children. Problems don't start at school, they start at home.

Pakistan isn't a cure for whatever is ailing the school syste in Toronto. A school reform is. Right now,things aren't going well in Pakistan. A young man was just lynched recently and at least Canada doesn't have the lynching problem, be grateful that you live somewhere safe and take off the rose-tinted glasses for once. Sorry for sounding rude and harsh but things aren't so black and white, sis.

Yusuf Estes has made up stories before, but you and I know that there is a huge problem with the North American school system, we don't need stories. We lived through it,right? The question should be why does a shaykh need to make up a story about a made up boy when he could use real life examples. Instead of blaming the school system, why doesn't he tell the audience that these issues start at home and put emphasis on the responsibility of parents to raise and teach their children how to be good, upstanding citizens and aware of what Islam allows and forbids.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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8 hours ago, sidnaq said:

I apologize for your experience but you cannot rainbow wash the public school system, children can suffer in them , and those children should be listened to.My own mother had a friend whose son had to be taken out of one school cuz it was so bad, a public school, sure we cant always blame the system, but it would be horrible if no one listened to the poor child.And why would sheikh yusuf estes make up some boy to lie to the audience? there are others not me, saying there is something wrong with the american education system, and even if there is nothing wrong with the teachers, or curriculum, it is the students, what they indulge in sister.Sex, drugs, there is a problem to think about growing up in non muslim environments, my sisters grew up in them they were fine, but someone else wasnt fine growing up in them and eventually the parents took that kid to pakistan where he was doing much better.

Sorry...have to be somewhere else today, so can't talk long.

Who's rainbow washing? I said there were problems.

Yes, I think working inside the public schools for three decades gives me more insight than some music-major itinerate preacher ( no seminary training) clown who has decided to become some sort of Muslim to continue his ego trip. ( I highly suspect he is a few other things as well and will not be surprised when the other shoe drops.) 

The schools are a political football used by everyone. Even when we succeed and have the data to prove it we are told we are not. Lol. My personal trip through them was fine overall. I am grateful the local public  school was there for me. in my childhood. Most of my teaching career was also rewarding in spite of the challenges .I listened to every child. I filled out  reports on any abuse,including drugs, that took place anywhere.... including the home. Do you think they are making meth in the school science labs? Nope...its Mom's and Dad's or Uncle Fred's meth shack.

  Most of the kids I taught are now adults and fine,even with their childhood situations. I see them all over the region. They often run up and hug me even though they are in their twenties and thirties. I joke to my own kids that if God will not reward me, that's  all the reward I need. Lol. That and the fact that most went on to higher education  and a few even made the Ivy League.

True, some are in jail. But I'd like to see anyone make a case that it was the public school that got them there. We had them only eight hours a day. Someone else did the rest of the time.

A parent ,of course, can make choices concerning their child's education and I respect that...private school, homeschool ,are all fine with me...but eventually that child must face the world he or she lives in and learn to deal with it,unless one is planning to lock them in their room forever. Some will succeed in dealing with the world and some will not. As much as I would like to think I had a lot  to do with the many who succeeded, I'm giving the families  credit for that..

As usual, Clown Estes is light on details in his tale. Details are where he always trips up. His take on Church History and Theology is a scream. The man is completely unlettered. His personal history is suspect.  As they say in our Scriptures " The blind leading the blind." It's rare I see such a blatant and amusing example,though. Too bad his Audiences are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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6 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Sorry...have to be somewhere else today, so can't talk long.

Who's rainbow washing? I said there were problems.

Yes, I think working inside the public schools for three decades gives me more insight than some music-major itinerate preacher ( no seminary training) clown who has decided to become some sort of Muslim to continue his ego trip. ( I highly suspect he is a few other things as well and will not be surprised when the other shoe drops.) 

The schools are a political football used by everyone. Even when we succeed and have the data to prove it we are told we are not. Lol. My personal trip through them was fine overall. I am grateful the local public  school was there for me. in my childhood. Most of my teaching career was also rewarding in spite of the challenges .I listened to every child. I filled out  reports on any abuse,including drugs, that took place anywhere.... including the home. Do you think they are making meth in the school science labs? Nope...its Mom's and Dad's or Uncle Fred's meth shack.

  Most of the kids I taught are now adults and fine,even with their childhood situations. I see them all over the region. They often run up and hug me even though they are in their twenties and thirties. I joke to my own kids that if God will not reward me, that's  all the reward I need. Lol. That and the fact that most went on to higher education  and a few even made the Ivy League.

True, some are in jail. But I'd like to see anyone make a case that it was the public school that got them there. We had them only eight hours a day. Someone else did the rest of the time.

A parent ,of course, can make choices concerning their child's education and I respect that...private school, homeschool ,are all fine with me...but eventually that child must face the world he or she lives in and learn to deal with it,unless one is planning to lock them in their room forever. Some will succeed in dealing with the world and some will not. As much as I would like to think I had a lot  to do with the many who succeeded, I'm giving the families  credit for that..

As usual, Clown Estes is light on details in his tale. Details are where he always trips up. His take on Church History and Theology is a scream. The man is completely unlettered. His personal history is suspect.  As they say in our Scriptures " The blind leading the blind." It's rare I see such a blatant and amusing example,though. Too bad his Audiences are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

 

hmm i have read what you wrote, however, i have listened to this video, i dont know about his take on other things, but over here i feel he is fine, i mean i dont know what the problem in his narration of the story is? 

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12 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Sis, she isn't whitewashing the situation. She is saying that public schools are sometimes the only option. Yes indeed those kids should be listened to but there are plenty of others like your sisters who turned out fine. It is wrong to blame the students for what they get involved with, because it is the parents' responsibility to teach their children about Islam. Parents need to discuss sex, drugs and other issues involving public schools and what Islam says about each issue with their children. Problems don't start at school, they start at home.

Pakistan isn't a cure for whatever is ailing the school syste in Toronto. A school reform is. Right now,things aren't going well in Pakistan. A young man was just lynched recently and at least Canada doesn't have the lynching problem, be grateful that you live somewhere safe and take off the rose-tinted glasses for once. Sorry for sounding rude and harsh but things aren't so black and white, sis.

Yusuf Estes has made up stories before, but you and I know that there is a huge problem with the North American school system, we don't need stories. We lived through it,right? The question should be why does a shaykh need to make up a story about a made up boy when he could use real life examples. Instead of blaming the school system, why doesn't he tell the audience that these issues start at home and put emphasis on the responsibility of parents to raise and teach their children how to be good, upstanding citizens and aware of what Islam allows and forbids.

 

Salam, hmm i didnt say white washing, i mean umm rainbow washing like, painting a rosy picture or the public school system is fine, but then she explained what she meant.Um i also understand the other things you have said regarding parents should discuss siutations liek drugs with their kids, and yeah i agree with you there.Um i wasnt also saying pakistan is a whole cure, i was giving an example that sometimes some environments like pak that may seem bad can be good for others, while some that may seem good may not be good for others.I dont mean to say pak doesnt have its problems.And toronto isnt bad, i admit that was my fault, but i was just criticizing certain things i have seen here.Or i dont have any problem, the city is more organised and stuff, its just other things that i had an issue with.well. yeah but he explained that the father was busy, maybe mom was too and at times parents arent alwas there to explain the situation or whats good or bad, even they cant tell the kids everything when hes very young either and they may not get time when theyre old.yeah.I think his story is simplistic, and at times its best to raise the child in a good environment than a bad one.Thats why some people may feel safer sending their kids to islamic schools here in canada.

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1 hour ago, sidnaq said:

yeah but he explained that the father was busy, maybe mom was too and at times parents arent alwas there to explain the situation or whats good or bad, even they cant tell the kids everything when hes very young either and they may not get time when theyre old.

I see, but in that case, the parents should make the time to explain the essentials to their children. It is hardly the fault of public school now,is it?

I noticed and heard others say that parents nowadays expect the public school to raise their children for them. School is school,it is not a surrogate parent or a daycare. If they really are that "busy", why did they agree and decide to have children if they aren't willing to put in the effort of raising them? 

1 hour ago, sidnaq said:

hmm i didnt say white washing, i mean umm rainbow washing like, painting a rosy picture or the public school system is fine,

I know but the correct term is whitewashing, I have never heard of rainbow washing until now.

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45 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I see, but in that case, the parents should make the time to explain the essentials to their children. It is hardly the fault of public school now,is it?

I noticed and heard others say that parents nowadays expect the public school to raise their children for them. School is school,it is not a surrogate parent or a daycare. If they really are that "busy", why did they agree and decide to have children if they aren't willing to put in the effort of raising them? 

I know but the correct term is whitewashing, I have never heard of rainbow washing until now.

 
 

oh i though white washing meant , i assumed something else im sorry.

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Please look at it again and give me one specific example of what Estes says the public schools did to this boy.

It's all birdwalk and innuendo.

Here's what he DID say:

* A Saudi military member came to Lackland Air Force Base in Texas to be trained

* He chose to bring his family and young children ( by the narrative his son would have been about seven at the time) with him to this benighted sinful land,not leave them home in the Magic Kingdom where they would supposedly be spiritually safer.... and go visit them until his training ended

* He chose to put him ( and presumably keep him) in public schools at US taxpayer expense, likely on the base. (Although KSA will pay for their pilots ' military training,it's likely his kid's education was funded by the taxpayers here. It's nice US schools will allow non-citizen children to be educated here, isn't it? I don't think KSA has the same deal for its non-citizens.)

* In spite of being just mortified within a week about the teachers allegedly trying to change his son's name  ( Turki is a good name in KSA  ,but being called a " turkey" in the US is a mild insult and will cause a young child, especially  ,to be laughed at. Still, I find it hard to believe the teachers wanted to call him " Fred". Likely they suggested using the middle name and Estes is taking credit for that and making up the rest of this. Like him being the " National Muslim Chaplain"....etc.),  the dad and the supposed defender of the faith in his family obviously isn't mortified enough to request a transfer home...or send his family back. Nope....we fast forward ten long years and now the Saudi military guy and family, including  son " Omar", are still somehow here in the US and  now  in the very belly of the beast.....Washington DC...lol. And Dad is still complaining whilst supposedly letting the now high school junior or senior have a car and run around DC without letting his parents know his whereabouts. ( DC and some of the surrounding towns in Maryland and Virginia in the larger DC metro area  are not towns where I would let my minor child run about incommunicado, much less give him a car to make it easier to do so.

* Estes then takes him to a prison ( why? Oh, yeah,to  give  himself an excuse to brag to his audience  about how he converting people in there to ...well, something...) where he says that American taxpayers allow Muslims to have their own chaplains in prison, supposedly, according to him, at taxpayer expense. ( This is a bad thing? You get educated by taxpayer money and then when you decide to blow all that, commit a crime, and get busted you get someone's shoulder to cry on at taxpayer expense, too?! ) and then he says a bunch of other stuff still having nothing to do with what the public schools did to this young fellow.

* He DID say at the end that the kid came from a Muslim home that " did not give him a good example" and that " his father was working all the time".

In conclusion....where, exactly ,is the fault of the  public schools in this, assuming it is a true story at all?

What specific thing did this joker say that illustrates how the US public schools failed the young Saudi ? Calling them a " toilet" ( did the base commander know his " Muslim chaplain" was dissing the base school district?) doesn't qualify as proof of anything. Any idiot can fling insults.

This is the problem I have with people like Estes. They are, as Shakespeare wrote, " sound and fury signifying nothing ".

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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Sinaq is just incredibly biased against western systems, culture, and its people. 

Do us a favor, and stop posting these ridiculous threads about how much you hate the west. You know, some people consider it to be home. Would you like it if people talked bad about your country? 

You have no idea what you're talking about, Sinaq, because you are blinded by your worldview.

why are you living in a western country if you hate it so much? 

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7 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Sinaq is just incredibly biased against western systems, culture, and its people. 

Do us a favor, and stop posting these ridiculous threads about how much you hate the west. You know, some people consider it to be home. Would you like it if people talked bad about your country? 

You have no idea what you're talking about, Sinaq, because you are blinded by your worldview.

why are you living in a western country if you hate it so much? 

 @sidnaq Islam has no demographic, color, race, inhabitant. Islam was meant for ALL mankind. You really need to drop your bias towards "westerners". You've totally been brainwashed by someone

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Sinaq is just incredibly biased against western systems, culture, and its people. 

Do us a favor, and stop posting these ridiculous threads about how much you hate the west. You know, some people consider it to be home. Would you like it if people talked bad about your country? 

You have no idea what you're talking about, Sinaq, because you are blinded by your worldview.

why are you living in a western country if you hate it so much? 

You didnt answer my question. Why arent you against the muslim scholars in thevwest talking about how evil the west is,or even the brothers here who talk about the wests evil agenda and thry stikl stay in those countries. Ban them first then come to me.and even if i say i dont hate all i hate some you still attackme by making it seem i hate all of the west. All of it. No i dont hate all of it. Let me clarify myself. It is good in its own aspects but recently westernisation was produvong some bad results such as high fashion muslims doing more bad a

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Some saw this country as the new Promised Land, overlooking the fact that by occupying the land they removed any possibility of promise to the non-Christian people who lived here for millennia. So, I am willing to concede that white European settlers were mainly Christian. This was also true after the War of Independence and in this sense one might say this was a Christian nation in that most of the settlers called themselves Christian. I will come back to this, but for now let me say that this new “Christian nation” was clearly neither a Christian theocracy not a parliamentary system advocating a particular religion. Indeed, the Constitution enshrined the free exercise of religion, while establishing a wall between church and state. If we were to call this budding nation a Christian nation, it was oddly one that proclaimed the freedom of individuals to practice other religions—at least ideally—or no religion at all. Proclaiming the inalienable right of religious freedom would leave open the possibility that another religion might be dominant, which would mean we would no longer be a “Christian nation.” While some people cite numbers or percentage of Christians as a reason for calling the U.S. a Christian nation, others have argued that the U.S. is a Christian nation because it was founded by Christians and, therefore, some of their beliefs and principles were woven into the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.  In reality, the Magna Carta and English Bill of Rights influenced those who penned the Constitution. Also, House Congressional Resolution 331 (1988) acknowledged the influence of the Iroquois Confederacy of Nations in writing the U.S. Constitution.  To be sure there are references to God in the Declaration of Independence, but not in the Constitution, which is not to deny that Christian principles, to some degree, shaped the writing of the Constitution, though it is not entirely clear which principles. More apparent is the secular political influences that shaped founding texts. Indeed, it is more accurate to say the U.S. was founded on English and Enlightenment political values. This will not deter those who will insist that since most colonial and later U.S. citizens nation were Christian, then the U.S. was, by and large, a Christian nation. Fast forward to the present and polls indicate that approximately 84% of people in the U.S. identify as Christians. So, our stalwart believer may proclaim that we are still a Christian nation by percentages alone.  Of course, we might look more closely at those numbers to discover that many of those who self-identify as Christians do not actually belong to a Christian community of faith. In some polling less than 38% of Christians actually go to church. What percentage do we rely on for being a Christian nation—51% or above of those who believe in Christ? Or do we count those who are actually practicing their Christian faith? If it is the latter, then we do not qualify as a Christian nation. Percentages and numbers, though, are hardly adequate measures for determining whether we are a Christian nation or not. It would seem fairer to consider not so much belief, but whether the majority of citizens and their elected representatives embody and live out core principles associated with Christianity. This would be akin to considering whether the claim that we are a democratic nation is valid based on whether citizens and institutions uphold and live out the principles and practices of democracy. Do citizens act in democratic ways? Are there state and non-state institutions that uphold democratic values and principles? Let’s shift to whether we are a “Christian” nation. Do citizens and elected officials adhere to the core principles of Christianity as reflected in the life and ministry of Jesus Christ? Do state and non-state institutions promote Christian principles and practices? The simple answer is no, but it is important to at least identify a few key principles of Christianity. It is apparent in any cursory reading of history that there are various renderings of what it means to live a Christian life. Yet, it is safe to say that the ministry of Jesus Christ incarnates the love and compassion of God, which includes mercy and forgiveness. As Karen Armstrong (1993) notes, the three Abrahamic faiths elevate compassion as a central principle for living a religious life. If we consider love, compassion, mercy, and forgiveness as central principles of being a Christian, then it is evident that these principles are less about mere belief than they are about actions or practices. I think most individual Christians and communities of faith, if they are honest, would say that they fall short of living out these principles. Indeed, Kierkegaard, surveying the landscape of Christian Europe, asked whether a Christian could be found in all of Christendom. No doubt he was aware of how far he and others fail to live out and up to Jesus Christ. More importantly, his query was not just about individuals, but calling Christendom itself into question. Individuals who call themselves Christian should be assessed in terms of the principles of Christianity, not so much to deny their identity, but to indicate to what degree they live out this faith. Those of us who call ourselves Christian know we do not measure up, yet we retain a Christian identity. When individuals use the term Christian to describe their nation, which includes identity, then it is fair game to use the principles as criteria. What does it mean to be called a Christian nation given the violent appropriation of land from Native Americans, which may rightly be called ethnic cleansing? Our ruthless treatment of Native peoples, which continues today, seems a far cry from any Christian principle. Consider how many American Christians legitimated slavery, Jim Crow, and racism. By what Christian principle do these fall under? The exploitation of Cuban, Philippine, and Central American peoples during the decades when the U.S. was a colonial power seems more in line with the principles of the Roman Empire than Christian values. The fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. Has the U.S. ever asked for forgiveness for these acts?  This kind of sociopathic brutality is a far cry from Christian compassion, though it is important to acknowledge that Christian communities perpetrated if not supported brutal actions (e.g., lynching). Let’s turn to the killing of around 2 million Vietnamese, which was more in line with the principles of realpolitik than Christian justice. Speaking of justice, read Acts and ask how Christian is it to have huge income and wealth disparities, millions of people without healthcare or inadequate healthcare, food deserts, and 7 million people in the penal system. Does this so-called Christian nation embody or even uphold any of the core values of Christianity? If this is not enough to dissuade people from calling the U.S. a Christian nation, I also raise the fact that I am not sure any nation could be Christian, except in only one sense and that is the view that we are a Christian nation because most citizens self-identify as Christian. That said, it is crucial to recognize that while religious communities can hold forth about their Christian values and principles vis-à-vis organizing the life of the community, nations abide by other principles, principles more in line with Machiavelli and Clausewitz, rather than Christ. To be sure, Constantine launched the West onto the idea of a Christian state, but this idea seemed to be far from anything Jesus had in mind. Moreover, Christ’s motivation, if I can talk about his motivation, seemed to be more about compassion, feeding the poor, healing the sick, etc., than it was about founding a nation. In short, Jesus’ kingdom is not to be found on earth, even though the kingdom of God is among us in acts of love, mercy, compassion, and forgiveness. These are virtues that are inimical the advancement of a nation state, let alone, an empire. So, let’s be honest and acknowledge that the U.S. and its government do not and, perhaps, cannot uphold Christian principles in organizing social or international relations. For this reason, we cannot claim the U.S. is a Christian nation. But I am not sanguine about people accepting this, especially those Christian individuals who are more likely to think of themselves as staunch patriots. By adhering to this belief, more accurately an illusion, they avoid facing the fact that the fundamental principles that actually operate in state-craft, namely, ruthless, rational calculation in the advancement of U.S. economic and political interests, are contrary to Christian principles used to organize the first Christian communities, namely sacrificial love, compassion, forgiveness, and distribution of resources according to needs. I also think there are a few other reasons why many Christian Americans are steadfast in their belief that the U.S. is a Christian nation. First, Christianity has long been the dominant religious tradition in this country and has become, for many, intertwined with a national identity. Even if people recognize that one can be American and from other faith traditions, patriotic Christians’ identity is wedded to national identity. To begin to believe we are not a Christian nation can evoke anxiety and rage because it is a threat to that identity. A second reason for retaining this illusion is that it deflects one from the inherent cruelty of the state’s actions (e.g., drone warfare and the killing of civilians, policing the poor). Even when we find ways to justify violence (e.g., they attacked us first—just war), we can continue to hold out that we are Christian nation. “Christian” denotes something good, unsullied by our excesses. It is analogous to someone saying, after being cruel to someone, “All have sinned. I know this as a Christian and that God still loves me.” Pasting the title Christian over the notion of the state or nation is like trying to cover over the indelible stain of our national sins. Third and relatedly, to come face to face with ourselves, as Carl Jung noted, is a terrible shock for we will see how far we really are from our cherished ideals of ourselves. Our shared histories, which undergird our shared identities, are, more often than not, facades that screen the reality of wrong on the throne and right on the scaffold (Niebuhr, 1941, p. 40).  Better to hold onto the soporific illusions of the title “Christian” than to face our collective past and present sins. As James Baldwin noted Americans “have the most remarkable ability to alchemize all bitter truths into an innocuous but piquant confection and to transform their moral contradictions, into a proud decoration” (1955, p.31)—the proud decoration that we are a Christian nation. Baldwin also wrote, “(F)or there is a great deal of will power involved in the white man’s naïveté” (p.166)—a naiveté fostered by the illusion of a Christian America. So, there are three basic rationales for citizens proclaiming the U.S. is a Christian nation. The first is the view that sheer numbers of people who believe in Christ indicates we are a Christian nation, but this fails because of the low percentages of people who actually practice some version of Christian faith. More importantly it also fails because the Constitution not only does not proclaim this, but actually leaves open the possibility of some other religion having greater numbers of believers, let alone practitioners. A second argument is that the founding documents of the nation are heavily influenced by Christian beliefs and principles. This might seem to be true, but the reality is that there were other influences, including those of Native peoples. Third, individuals may claim that we are a Christian nation because Christian principles and values guide how we understand ourselves and organize society. The truth, however, is that the United States has operated out of other principles more suited to Machiavellian principles of statecraft. One might ask why is it so important to rid ourselves of the illusion that we are a Christian nation. What good will come of it? Isn’t holding this belief an inducement to live out a more moral existence as a nation? As for the second question, one need only go down the depressively long list of cruel, destructive, exploitive, and oppressive actions perpetrated in the name of a Christian nation to see that it has not been an inducement to live a more moral life, though people like Martin Luther King Jr. and others used this to [Edited Out] the consciences of white Americans. If we work to get rid of or limit this illusion, people of other religious and secular faiths may feel more at home in the U.S. Perhaps another benefit would be a growing awareness of the misdeeds done under the name of Christian nation. In facing the sins of our past, there might be a sliver of hope for change. As James Baldwin (2010) notes, “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced” (p.34). Notes. Armstrong, K. (1993). A History of God. New York: Ballantine Books. Baldwin, J. (1955). Notes of a Native Son. Boston, MA: Beacon Press. Baldwin, J. (2010). The Cross of Redemption: Uncollected writings. New York: Pantheon. Kierkegaard, S. (1846). Concluding unscientific postscript to the philosophical fragments: A mimic-pathetic-dialectic composition: An existential contribution, by Johannes Climacus. Responsible for publication: S. Kierkegaard. Trans. D. Swenson and W. Lowrie (1941). Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press. Niebuhr, H. R. (1941). Meaning and revelation. New York: Collier Books.
    • If you are thinking that he'll be hurt by your decision then you are right may be he will,but that'll heal.. Moving with him further will make chances to return and heal difficult!! And if you are thinking about people pointing on you or your parents don't worry they will talk till they have that tongue(even if you do nothing they'll say oh!what a poor girl she does nothing :p) select your priorities and then act, it will ease your decisions inshaaAllah... May you find best in Allah's will 
    • Just remembering that incident today on 28th of Safar.  The noha I was listening today mentioning that coffin taken back to home again (may be to remove those arrows) and then taken to jannat-ul-baqee.
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