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sidnaq

American Public School Yusuf Estes

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Lol. I can't tell you how happy I am this clown has left Christianity and is now busy fleecing  another flock. 

Blaming the public schools for the million and one things that could have gone wrong with the boy. ( If this boy exists at all...btw...do you happen to have an official government list where Yusuf Estes is on at as the " Muslim chaplain' for the BOP that he claims? I think he's changed his story a couple of times regarding his claimed " job". Among other things. We occasionally have to deal with the BOP due to the incarceration of our activists.  Considering the stuff coming out of the BOP concerning extremism, including people of Salafi/Wahabist persuasion,plus the requirements for consideration for chaplaincy...color me skeptical....but I digress)

Not saying it never happens, but  I was a public school teacher for a darn long time and I never heard of a teacher changing a kid's name. I have had some kids ask to be called by something other than their given name if it was difficult. You usually have to ask the parent if that is okay. But it figures someone like Estes would play to a crowd. He's an entertainer at base.  Have fun with him.

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^ I'm just hoping for the sake of many Muslims that he IS a harmless clown who likes to tell entertaining stories. And I hope he has never been in the prisons for reals,if you get my drift. With permission to speak freely... I wouldn't trust him with the name of my dog.

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47 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ I'm just hoping for the sake of many Muslims that he IS a harmless clown who likes to tell entertaining stories. And I hope he has never been in the prisons for reals,if you get my drift. With permission to speak freely... I wouldn't trust him with the name of my dog.

He probably has been to prison with the prison ministry, it's not uncommon. I know he's not a criminal but it's like you said, he's an entertainer and a "cute lump of coal" , charming but of no value spiritually.

I find it troubling that the OP actually thinks he is knowledgeable, we have so many speakers and scholars lightyears ahead of Yusuf Estes.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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26 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ I'm not worried about him being a common criminal. I'm hoping he has been nowhere near the prisons in any capacity. Glad the Shia population is not involved with him. 

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think he has been to a prison or two.

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4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Be careful, @sidnaq I would take anything Yusuf Estes says with a salt mine or two. Not mention, he's Salafi, be really careful. 

 

 

i dont listen to him anymore, but i remember this speech.

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5 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Lol. I can't tell you how happy I am this clown has left Christianity and is now busy fleecing  another flock. 

Blaming the public schools for the million and one things that could have gone wrong with the boy. ( If this boy exists at all...btw...do you happen to have an official government list where Yusuf Estes is on at as the " Muslim chaplain' for the BOP that he claims? I think he's changed his story a couple of times regarding his claimed " job". Among other things. We occasionally have to deal with the BOP due to the incarceration of our activists.  Considering the stuff coming out of the BOP concerning extremism, including people of Salafi/Wahabist persuasion,plus the requirements for consideration for chaplaincy...color me skeptical....but I digress)

Not saying it never happens, but  I was a public school teacher for a darn long time and I never heard of a teacher changing a kid's name. I have had some kids ask to be called by something other than their given name if it was difficult. You usually have to ask the parent if that is okay. But it figures someone like Estes would play to a crowd. He's an entertainer at base.  Have fun with him.

 

listen i understand what youre saying, but i think yusuf estes also has knowledge of the public school system, and at times, these unfortuante situations can exist.Muslims growing up in a non muslim environment could get influenced by the wrong things, even a woman i knew sent her child to islamic school cuz she didnt want her kid to get exposed to music and the wrong things.this is toronto.

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^ He actually said little of substance. I'd still like to know what he thinks the school alone did.

He is just riding the bandwagon that  blames the " school system" for everything. It's not perfect, and I have my own ideas regarding that,but we educate everyone who can't afford a private ( Islamic or otherwise) school, against all challenges. We can't turn people away. I was always proud of that. ( If I could pick and choose my students like private schools can and throw out anyone I didn't want to deal with, I'd have a bang-up class,too!) The US workforce is still supposedly "the hardest working and most creative in the world". Plenty of them were educated by the public schools.

We can't control a child's total environment. I personally got tired of working my tail off and every year getting bashed by everyone from politicians taking cheap shots to parents who wanted me to do their parenting for them. 

You should have conferenced with some of the parents, of various ethnicities and tax brackets , that I did. Would open some eyes.

Was it this hypothetical boy who had a father who "had no time for him "did he say? Figures.

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2 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ Not to worry. It appears there are very few Shia folk in US prisons.

Apparently you:

1. Don't commit crimes or

2. Are too smart to get caught.

Well,it's pretty much the norm for Salafis to do dawah in prison to give the prisoners a second chance in life through Islam.

We try our best to follow the teachings of the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã and his blessed progeny (as). It seems to translate into very few Shias in prison.

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^ He actually said little of substance. I'd still like to know what he thinks the school alone did.

He is just riding the bandwagon that  blames the " school system" for everything. It's not perfect, and I have my own ideas regarding that,but we educate everyone who can't afford a private ( Islamic or otherwise) school, against all challenges. We can't turn people away. I was always proud of that. ( If I could pick and choose my students like private schools can and throw out anyone I didn't want to deal with, I'd have a bang-up class,too!) The US workforce is still supposedly "the hardest working and most creative in the world". Plenty of them were educated by the public schools.

We can't control a child's total environment. I personally got tired of working my tail off and every year getting bashed by everyone from politicians taking cheap shots to parents who wanted me to do their parenting for them. 

You should have conferenced with some of the parents, of various ethnicities and tax brackets , that I did. Would open some eyes.

Was it this hypothetical boy who had a father who "had no time for him "did he say? Figures.

 

I apologize for your experience but you cannot rainbow wash the public school system, children can suffer in them , and those children should be listened to.My own mother had a friend whose son had to be taken out of one school cuz it was so bad, a public school, sure we cant always blame the system, but it would be horrible if no one listened to the poor child.And why would sheikh yusuf estes make up some boy to lie to the audience? there are others not me, saying there is something wrong with the american education system, and even if there is nothing wrong with the teachers, or curriculum, it is the students, what they indulge in sister.Sex, drugs, there is a problem to think about growing up in non muslim environments, my sisters grew up in them they were fine, but someone else wasnt fine growing up in them and eventually the parents took that kid to pakistan where he was doing much better.

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2 hours ago, sidnaq said:

I apologize for your experience but you cannot rainbow wash the public school system, children can suffer in them , and those children should be listened to.My own mother had a friend whose son had to be taken out of one school cuz it was so bad, a public school, sure we cant always blame the system, but it would be horrible if no one listened to the poor child.And why would sheikh yusuf estes make up some boy to lie to the audience? there are others not me, saying there is something wrong with the american education system, and even if there is nothing wrong with the teachers, or curriculum, it is the students, what they indulge in sister.Sex, drugs, there is a problem to think about growing up in non muslim environments, my sisters grew up in them they were fine, but someone else wasnt fine growing up in them and eventually the parents took that kid to pakistan where he was doing much better.

Sis, she isn't whitewashing the situation. She is saying that public schools are sometimes the only option. Yes indeed those kids should be listened to but there are plenty of others like your sisters who turned out fine. It is wrong to blame the students for what they get involved with, because it is the parents' responsibility to teach their children about Islam. Parents need to discuss sex, drugs and other issues involving public schools and what Islam says about each issue with their children. Problems don't start at school, they start at home.

Pakistan isn't a cure for whatever is ailing the school syste in Toronto. A school reform is. Right now,things aren't going well in Pakistan. A young man was just lynched recently and at least Canada doesn't have the lynching problem, be grateful that you live somewhere safe and take off the rose-tinted glasses for once. Sorry for sounding rude and harsh but things aren't so black and white, sis.

Yusuf Estes has made up stories before, but you and I know that there is a huge problem with the North American school system, we don't need stories. We lived through it,right? The question should be why does a shaykh need to make up a story about a made up boy when he could use real life examples. Instead of blaming the school system, why doesn't he tell the audience that these issues start at home and put emphasis on the responsibility of parents to raise and teach their children how to be good, upstanding citizens and aware of what Islam allows and forbids.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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8 hours ago, sidnaq said:

I apologize for your experience but you cannot rainbow wash the public school system, children can suffer in them , and those children should be listened to.My own mother had a friend whose son had to be taken out of one school cuz it was so bad, a public school, sure we cant always blame the system, but it would be horrible if no one listened to the poor child.And why would sheikh yusuf estes make up some boy to lie to the audience? there are others not me, saying there is something wrong with the american education system, and even if there is nothing wrong with the teachers, or curriculum, it is the students, what they indulge in sister.Sex, drugs, there is a problem to think about growing up in non muslim environments, my sisters grew up in them they were fine, but someone else wasnt fine growing up in them and eventually the parents took that kid to pakistan where he was doing much better.

Sorry...have to be somewhere else today, so can't talk long.

Who's rainbow washing? I said there were problems.

Yes, I think working inside the public schools for three decades gives me more insight than some music-major itinerate preacher ( no seminary training) clown who has decided to become some sort of Muslim to continue his ego trip. ( I highly suspect he is a few other things as well and will not be surprised when the other shoe drops.) 

The schools are a political football used by everyone. Even when we succeed and have the data to prove it we are told we are not. Lol. My personal trip through them was fine overall. I am grateful the local public  school was there for me. in my childhood. Most of my teaching career was also rewarding in spite of the challenges .I listened to every child. I filled out  reports on any abuse,including drugs, that took place anywhere.... including the home. Do you think they are making meth in the school science labs? Nope...its Mom's and Dad's or Uncle Fred's meth shack.

  Most of the kids I taught are now adults and fine,even with their childhood situations. I see them all over the region. They often run up and hug me even though they are in their twenties and thirties. I joke to my own kids that if God will not reward me, that's  all the reward I need. Lol. That and the fact that most went on to higher education  and a few even made the Ivy League.

True, some are in jail. But I'd like to see anyone make a case that it was the public school that got them there. We had them only eight hours a day. Someone else did the rest of the time.

A parent ,of course, can make choices concerning their child's education and I respect that...private school, homeschool ,are all fine with me...but eventually that child must face the world he or she lives in and learn to deal with it,unless one is planning to lock them in their room forever. Some will succeed in dealing with the world and some will not. As much as I would like to think I had a lot  to do with the many who succeeded, I'm giving the families  credit for that..

As usual, Clown Estes is light on details in his tale. Details are where he always trips up. His take on Church History and Theology is a scream. The man is completely unlettered. His personal history is suspect.  As they say in our Scriptures " The blind leading the blind." It's rare I see such a blatant and amusing example,though. Too bad his Audiences are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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6 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Sorry...have to be somewhere else today, so can't talk long.

Who's rainbow washing? I said there were problems.

Yes, I think working inside the public schools for three decades gives me more insight than some music-major itinerate preacher ( no seminary training) clown who has decided to become some sort of Muslim to continue his ego trip. ( I highly suspect he is a few other things as well and will not be surprised when the other shoe drops.) 

The schools are a political football used by everyone. Even when we succeed and have the data to prove it we are told we are not. Lol. My personal trip through them was fine overall. I am grateful the local public  school was there for me. in my childhood. Most of my teaching career was also rewarding in spite of the challenges .I listened to every child. I filled out  reports on any abuse,including drugs, that took place anywhere.... including the home. Do you think they are making meth in the school science labs? Nope...its Mom's and Dad's or Uncle Fred's meth shack.

  Most of the kids I taught are now adults and fine,even with their childhood situations. I see them all over the region. They often run up and hug me even though they are in their twenties and thirties. I joke to my own kids that if God will not reward me, that's  all the reward I need. Lol. That and the fact that most went on to higher education  and a few even made the Ivy League.

True, some are in jail. But I'd like to see anyone make a case that it was the public school that got them there. We had them only eight hours a day. Someone else did the rest of the time.

A parent ,of course, can make choices concerning their child's education and I respect that...private school, homeschool ,are all fine with me...but eventually that child must face the world he or she lives in and learn to deal with it,unless one is planning to lock them in their room forever. Some will succeed in dealing with the world and some will not. As much as I would like to think I had a lot  to do with the many who succeeded, I'm giving the families  credit for that..

As usual, Clown Estes is light on details in his tale. Details are where he always trips up. His take on Church History and Theology is a scream. The man is completely unlettered. His personal history is suspect.  As they say in our Scriptures " The blind leading the blind." It's rare I see such a blatant and amusing example,though. Too bad his Audiences are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

 

hmm i have read what you wrote, however, i have listened to this video, i dont know about his take on other things, but over here i feel he is fine, i mean i dont know what the problem in his narration of the story is? 

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12 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Sis, she isn't whitewashing the situation. She is saying that public schools are sometimes the only option. Yes indeed those kids should be listened to but there are plenty of others like your sisters who turned out fine. It is wrong to blame the students for what they get involved with, because it is the parents' responsibility to teach their children about Islam. Parents need to discuss sex, drugs and other issues involving public schools and what Islam says about each issue with their children. Problems don't start at school, they start at home.

Pakistan isn't a cure for whatever is ailing the school syste in Toronto. A school reform is. Right now,things aren't going well in Pakistan. A young man was just lynched recently and at least Canada doesn't have the lynching problem, be grateful that you live somewhere safe and take off the rose-tinted glasses for once. Sorry for sounding rude and harsh but things aren't so black and white, sis.

Yusuf Estes has made up stories before, but you and I know that there is a huge problem with the North American school system, we don't need stories. We lived through it,right? The question should be why does a shaykh need to make up a story about a made up boy when he could use real life examples. Instead of blaming the school system, why doesn't he tell the audience that these issues start at home and put emphasis on the responsibility of parents to raise and teach their children how to be good, upstanding citizens and aware of what Islam allows and forbids.

 

Salam, hmm i didnt say white washing, i mean umm rainbow washing like, painting a rosy picture or the public school system is fine, but then she explained what she meant.Um i also understand the other things you have said regarding parents should discuss siutations liek drugs with their kids, and yeah i agree with you there.Um i wasnt also saying pakistan is a whole cure, i was giving an example that sometimes some environments like pak that may seem bad can be good for others, while some that may seem good may not be good for others.I dont mean to say pak doesnt have its problems.And toronto isnt bad, i admit that was my fault, but i was just criticizing certain things i have seen here.Or i dont have any problem, the city is more organised and stuff, its just other things that i had an issue with.well. yeah but he explained that the father was busy, maybe mom was too and at times parents arent alwas there to explain the situation or whats good or bad, even they cant tell the kids everything when hes very young either and they may not get time when theyre old.yeah.I think his story is simplistic, and at times its best to raise the child in a good environment than a bad one.Thats why some people may feel safer sending their kids to islamic schools here in canada.

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1 hour ago, sidnaq said:

yeah but he explained that the father was busy, maybe mom was too and at times parents arent alwas there to explain the situation or whats good or bad, even they cant tell the kids everything when hes very young either and they may not get time when theyre old.

I see, but in that case, the parents should make the time to explain the essentials to their children. It is hardly the fault of public school now,is it?

I noticed and heard others say that parents nowadays expect the public school to raise their children for them. School is school,it is not a surrogate parent or a daycare. If they really are that "busy", why did they agree and decide to have children if they aren't willing to put in the effort of raising them? 

1 hour ago, sidnaq said:

hmm i didnt say white washing, i mean umm rainbow washing like, painting a rosy picture or the public school system is fine,

I know but the correct term is whitewashing, I have never heard of rainbow washing until now.

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45 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I see, but in that case, the parents should make the time to explain the essentials to their children. It is hardly the fault of public school now,is it?

I noticed and heard others say that parents nowadays expect the public school to raise their children for them. School is school,it is not a surrogate parent or a daycare. If they really are that "busy", why did they agree and decide to have children if they aren't willing to put in the effort of raising them? 

I know but the correct term is whitewashing, I have never heard of rainbow washing until now.

 
 

oh i though white washing meant , i assumed something else im sorry.

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Please look at it again and give me one specific example of what Estes says the public schools did to this boy.

It's all birdwalk and innuendo.

Here's what he DID say:

* A Saudi military member came to Lackland Air Force Base in Texas to be trained

* He chose to bring his family and young children ( by the narrative his son would have been about seven at the time) with him to this benighted sinful land,not leave them home in the Magic Kingdom where they would supposedly be spiritually safer.... and go visit them until his training ended

* He chose to put him ( and presumably keep him) in public schools at US taxpayer expense, likely on the base. (Although KSA will pay for their pilots ' military training,it's likely his kid's education was funded by the taxpayers here. It's nice US schools will allow non-citizen children to be educated here, isn't it? I don't think KSA has the same deal for its non-citizens.)

* In spite of being just mortified within a week about the teachers allegedly trying to change his son's name  ( Turki is a good name in KSA  ,but being called a " turkey" in the US is a mild insult and will cause a young child, especially  ,to be laughed at. Still, I find it hard to believe the teachers wanted to call him " Fred". Likely they suggested using the middle name and Estes is taking credit for that and making up the rest of this. Like him being the " National Muslim Chaplain"....etc.),  the dad and the supposed defender of the faith in his family obviously isn't mortified enough to request a transfer home...or send his family back. Nope....we fast forward ten long years and now the Saudi military guy and family, including  son " Omar", are still somehow here in the US and  now  in the very belly of the beast.....Washington DC...lol. And Dad is still complaining whilst supposedly letting the now high school junior or senior have a car and run around DC without letting his parents know his whereabouts. ( DC and some of the surrounding towns in Maryland and Virginia in the larger DC metro area  are not towns where I would let my minor child run about incommunicado, much less give him a car to make it easier to do so.

* Estes then takes him to a prison ( why? Oh, yeah,to  give  himself an excuse to brag to his audience  about how he converting people in there to ...well, something...) where he says that American taxpayers allow Muslims to have their own chaplains in prison, supposedly, according to him, at taxpayer expense. ( This is a bad thing? You get educated by taxpayer money and then when you decide to blow all that, commit a crime, and get busted you get someone's shoulder to cry on at taxpayer expense, too?! ) and then he says a bunch of other stuff still having nothing to do with what the public schools did to this young fellow.

* He DID say at the end that the kid came from a Muslim home that " did not give him a good example" and that " his father was working all the time".

In conclusion....where, exactly ,is the fault of the  public schools in this, assuming it is a true story at all?

What specific thing did this joker say that illustrates how the US public schools failed the young Saudi ? Calling them a " toilet" ( did the base commander know his " Muslim chaplain" was dissing the base school district?) doesn't qualify as proof of anything. Any idiot can fling insults.

This is the problem I have with people like Estes. They are, as Shakespeare wrote, " sound and fury signifying nothing ".

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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Sinaq is just incredibly biased against western systems, culture, and its people. 

Do us a favor, and stop posting these ridiculous threads about how much you hate the west. You know, some people consider it to be home. Would you like it if people talked bad about your country? 

You have no idea what you're talking about, Sinaq, because you are blinded by your worldview.

why are you living in a western country if you hate it so much? 

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7 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Sinaq is just incredibly biased against western systems, culture, and its people. 

Do us a favor, and stop posting these ridiculous threads about how much you hate the west. You know, some people consider it to be home. Would you like it if people talked bad about your country? 

You have no idea what you're talking about, Sinaq, because you are blinded by your worldview.

why are you living in a western country if you hate it so much? 

 @sidnaq Islam has no demographic, color, race, inhabitant. Islam was meant for ALL mankind. You really need to drop your bias towards "westerners". You've totally been brainwashed by someone

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Sinaq is just incredibly biased against western systems, culture, and its people. 

Do us a favor, and stop posting these ridiculous threads about how much you hate the west. You know, some people consider it to be home. Would you like it if people talked bad about your country? 

You have no idea what you're talking about, Sinaq, because you are blinded by your worldview.

why are you living in a western country if you hate it so much? 

You didnt answer my question. Why arent you against the muslim scholars in thevwest talking about how evil the west is,or even the brothers here who talk about the wests evil agenda and thry stikl stay in those countries. Ban them first then come to me.and even if i say i dont hate all i hate some you still attackme by making it seem i hate all of the west. All of it. No i dont hate all of it. Let me clarify myself. It is good in its own aspects but recently westernisation was produvong some bad results such as high fashion muslims doing more bad a

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      Stephen Hawking is a SME ( Subject Matter Expert) in his field of Study. If he gave his scientific theory and left it at that. I would not care nor it should be my concern, as there are many SMEs and have their theories in the Scientific world about may things.  His connecting it to and concluding that there is no need for god( his understanding of what god is to him). Is the issue, I am highlighting it not only because of what he said, because he or people like him are followed and the laypeople use these ideas to formulate their ideology. This is something, prevalent, using  fiction which they call ‘Science” as a tool to attack Divine Religion. This is where this talk and connection / implication that this is the god and of you can’t pray to or ask for help form gravity, or physical laws are not empathetic, and are cold  and have no concern for the humans ….This connection makes no sense. Comparing apples and oranges and mixing stuff that is confusing. This mentally is delusional and it stems out of misunderstanding of the concepts of pray, or help, mercy, etc..or implications that ignorant people believe in miracles and angels. Or we can’t carbon date the text, or evidence of such and such event. In short ignorant conclusions by apparently learned people in their field of study Trickle down effect, and the lay Atheists/Agnostics take these talking point and formulate an opinion and argument with it. Objectivity is also an issue, here. Double standards. Scientific theories are not subject to the same rigorous, and shredding mentality.   Its 5000, 2000, 1400 old stuff, we are Technically advanced. We forget that this advancement is in Technology,(only). The basic alphabet  in terms of Social behavior, is as old as the cave people.  Moving beyond, Mechanics, working, Techinacilities and this attitude of the best generation to exist, every preceding generation had the same attitude. and we will be looked at and our theories considers as old and outdated by the new generations.  Its a Point is time assessment.  What are the benefits of the revealed information- i.e Revealed to us through our struggle and study through discovery of us and whats around us.? Do we follow the Laws, derived from this new knowledge?  If not what are we rally arguing about. If a person can't even at least in Theory acknowledge the laws of Nature for our(Humanity)  Benefit. If you were to do that, you may rethink you position, because you may realize that you have been arguing against something that Natural laws actually prove.  This is what concerns me, at this point. Why can't the objective, learned and "technically" advanced people  see that and make this connection?  
    • The nature of the Existence is to exist. Thats all.
    • If the father doesn't approve of it, and didn't leave the door open for further contact, then that's it. They are not being disrespectful. Saying "no" should not forcibly come with an explanation, thus you can't demand it nor force them to listen to you. It is called freedom, and that is more sacred than anything you can tell them.
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