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Islandsandmirrors

Why are Some Christians Obsessed with Purity?

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On 4/24/2017 at 4:54 PM, Islandsandmirrors said:

Sorry about the title, but I just don't know how else to word this.I know strict Christians who are waiting until marriage, and while I applaud them (and I'm waiting also.) for not giving into temptation, I can't help but feel like some of people I've encountered were obsessed with not having sex. 

Salam Islandsandmirrors,

Some Christians are "obsessed with purity" because God has commands concerning sex. :) So, it's not that they are "obsessed with not having sex" but rather that they are "obsessed" with obeying God's commands concerning sex. 

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While I don't believe our Ummah talks enough about sexuality in general, Baptist/Pentacostal/whatever denomination Christians are obsessed with their purity rings and declaring not having sex to anyone who is willing to listen. 

Lol!!!! I had a purity ring until I got married!!! :):):) I was raised in a Baptist home (though I'm not currently a Baptist). And yes, I had a lot of fun telling guys no I will not sleep with you before marriage because I love God more than I love you. You would be surprised how many Christian guys don't care about God's commands for sex. :(

It seems that more Christian girls care to obey God's commands about sex than Christian  guys.  :( 

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(It's as if they wish to just ignore sexuality completely.)

Lol that's not it at all. The USA is a very heavily sexualized culture. Purity rings and all that jazz are a spiritual response that shows a desire for some Christians to obey God's commands about sex in a very secularized sexualized atmosphere. That's tough.

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Honestly, I don't see people of my Ummah have creepy "purity balls" (there was the weirdest documentary on this. If I find it, I'll post it.)

Because of mutah maybe?

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or shame others for having premarital sex.

While some Christians do, some Christians actually are the ones being shamed for not having premarital sex. I was personally called a prude in high school for refusing to have sex before marriage. And, I don't care one bit; I think God protected me from sexual diseases.

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Muslims don't try to force their decision to remain abstinent down people's throats.

Um. Apparently, you've never met some of my Sunni Muslim friends lol. They actually believe in segregation of the genders for a reason: to prevent premarital sex. I know; after 9/11 I almost married a wonderful Sunni Muslim man and I would get so upset when I was segregated from him at Sunni Muslim events. When I went to the mosque, I was segregated from him as well. I was not a happy camper, let me tell you. Their explanation? The segregation helps prevent sexual temptation.

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Sexuality is generally considered none of anyone's business. 

Is that what the Qur'an says?

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I'm sorry, but many of the Christian faith (those who are waiting) have a holier-than-thou attitude that is very off-putting when talking about sex in general.

Then, why not avoid Christians? By the way, striving to obey God can be considered having a "holier-than-thou attitude" but Christians are supposed to be "holy"

But as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”  - 1 Peter 1:15-16 (ESV)

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I've encountered several people waiting until marriage and they all gave me the same weird vibe. All they talk about is how "true love waits" (which I also believe in, but I'm not the one shoving it down people's throats.) and show off their purity rings that they bought for however many dollars. 

I think it's cool that the true love waits rings are still a thing. :):):) Instead of viewing their commitment to obeying God as a negative, can you think of any positives to their public commitment to obeying God?

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Its the same thing with Christians on missionaries to try to convert people.

It's a part of Jesus' commands to make disciples:

 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” - Matthew 28:18-20 (NIV)

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You don't see people of our Ummah doing that, as there is no compulsion in religion.

From my personal experience, my Sunni Muslim friends have definitely invited me to "revert" to Islam multiple times. I respect them for that, cause I know they care for my eternal welfare. :)

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It wasn't my intention at all to start a Christian-bashing thread, but these are my frustrations and observations. 

Could you try to see any positives about some Christians striving to obey God's commands for sex in a highly sexualized, secular society?

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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On 4/24/2017 at 5:11 PM, LeftCoastMom said:

You are not the only one a bit " creeped out" by this. Plenty of observant Christians are ,too.

Salam LeftCoastMom,

I'm personally crept out by the purity balls, which I did not know about till reading this thread. (I wonder if Southern Baptist churches do them... I haven't been to a Southern Baptist church in a long time, but I was raised in a Southern Baptist family. I've been attending a non-denominational church for a long time.

Are you crept out by the original True Love Waits movement, or only by the creepy "Purity balls" which I just learned about from this thread? (The True Love Waits movement in which I participated in as a teen did not include a creepy purity ball...)

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This sort of thing seems to be in the realm of very conservative fundamentalist( often non-denominational) groups. It is not very widespread even in America, but it has made a lot of press.

It helped me personally to obey God's commands concerning sex. It's very difficult in my society to withstand sexual temptation, and the True Love Waits movement greatly helped me. :)

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I can understand the need to " push back" against what they see as a dysfunctional society, but many of the activities seem prideful and over-the-top.

Many activities of any group of people can seem prideful. However, obeying God's commands concerning sex can be very difficult. It's not about pride; it's about obeying God. It really helps to have encouragement to obey God.

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Some of the " Purity Ball" rituals have undertones of incest. 

I've never heard of, been to, or seen a Purity Ball till you wrote this and I looked it up. These Purity balls do seem creepy and yes, some have with undertones of incest with this boyfriend being the Dad thing. That's weird and creepy.:(

However, purity balls are much different than what I personally experienced in the True Love Waits movement.

I decided of my own free will to participate in the True Love Waits Movement and I asked my parents to get me a purity ring.

My Dad didn't make any promises concerning my virginity. I made my own promise to God, using my own free will. I was a virgin till I got married because I wanted to obey God's commands, not because of my Dad. It had NOTHING to do with Dad and EVERYTHING to do with God. :)

My husband, by the way, made no promises to God to be a virgin till marriage. He has no problem admitting this. He does however believe in being faithful in marriage.

Peace and God bless you

 

Edited by Christianlady

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Almost all cultures have been obsessed by purity. We always know who the mother is, but the father has been uncertain (until the DNA tests). For this reason men have put restrictions on their women. Some more horrible than others. To my knowledge, the only culture that has not done so are the eskimoes. They were so few, that the risk of extinction due to inbreed was always present. A stranger passing by, could therefore risk being invited to share his genes with somebodys wife. How they found out, without knowing about DNA, is rather impressive. 

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4 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Salam LeftCoastMom,

I'm personally crept out by the purity balls, which I did not know about till reading this thread. (I wonder if Southern Baptist churches do them... I haven't been to a Southern Baptist church in a long time, but I was raised in a Southern Baptist family. I've been attending a non-denominational church for a long time.

Are you crept out by the original True Love Waits movement, or only by the creepy "Purity balls" which I just learned about from this thread? (The True Love Waits movement in which I participated in as a teen did not include a creepy purity ball...)

It helped me personally to obey God's commands concerning sex. It's very difficult in my society to withstand sexual temptation, and the True Love Waits movement greatly helped me. :)

Many activities of any group of people can seem prideful. However, obeying God's commands concerning sex can be very difficult. It's not about pride; it's about obeying God. It really helps to have encouragement to obey God.

I've never heard of, been to, or seen a Purity Ball till you wrote this and I looked it up. These Purity balls do seem creepy and yes, some have with undertones of incest with this boyfriend being the Dad thing. That's weird and creepy.:(

However, purity balls are much different than what I personally experienced in the True Love Waits movement.

I decided of my own free will to participate in the True Love Waits Movement and I asked my parents to get me a purity ring.

My Dad didn't make any promises concerning my virginity. I made my own promise to God, using my own free will. I was a virgin till I got married because I wanted to obey God's commands, not because of my Dad. It had NOTHING to do with Dad and EVERYTHING to do with God. :)

My husband, by the way, made no promises to God to be a virgin till marriage. He has no problem admitting this. He does however believe in being faithful in marriage.

Peace and God bless you

 

I was discussing mostly the "Purity Balls" and the rituals  surrounding them,not any particular movement against pre-marital sex. Extreme things. They have been in the news for years. I don't think you engaged in the sort of behavior @Islandsandmirrors was  talking about in her original post. That sort of thing reminds me of Jesus' condemnation of drawing attention to yourself while doing " good things" such as praying for show in public and being judgmental of others.

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3 hours ago, andres said:

Almost all cultures have been obsessed by purity. We always know who the mother is, but the father has been uncertain (until the DNA tests). For this reason men have put restrictions on their women. Some more horrible than others. To my knowledge, the only culture that has not done so are the eskimoes. They were so few, that the risk of extinction due to inbreed was always present. A stranger passing by, could therefore risk being invited to share his genes with somebodys wife. How they found out, without knowing about DNA, is rather impressive. 

There were many cultures which, for one reason or the other, were not "obsessed with purity", although in most it was a moot point because people were married shortly after puberty anyway.

Around here in many societies, the children and family home " belonged" to the woman and the kids were taught most of their life skills by her brothers ( they are of the mother's clan) . The father,being not of the same clan,  was less important in many aspects. So there was little need to cloister the women. 

As well ,the " Eskimos" (Inuit, Aleut, and other Arctic aboriginal groups ) are large groups of peoples covering an enormous area. They had multiple customs and reasons for spousal sharing,when it occurred. My understanding from conversations with them  is that it varied, but usually it was not with strangers.

( In another topic," monotheism" did not arrive here only 500 years ago. There were thousands of tribes with as many diverse faith systems. Some were and are still unknown. However, some could properly be called monotheisms although they did not much resemble the Abrahamic ones.)

 

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

There were many cultures which, for one reason or the other, were not "obsessed with purity", although in most it was a moot point because people were married shortly after puberty anyway.

Around here in many societies, the children and family home " belonged" to the woman and the kids were taught most of their life skills by her brothers ( they are of the mother's clan) . The father,being not of the same clan,  was less important in many aspects. So there was little need to cloister the women. 

As well ,the " Eskimos" (Inuit, Aleut, and other Arctic aboriginal groups ) are large groups of peoples covering an enormous area. They had multiple customs and reasons for spousal sharing,when it occurred. My understanding from conversations with them  is that it varied, but usually it was not with strangers.

( In another topic," monotheism" did not arrive here only 500 years ago. There were thousands of tribes with as many diverse faith systems. Some were and are still unknown. However, some could properly be called monotheisms although they did not much resemble the Abrahamic ones.)

 

Yes, there are many different cultures. The story I reffered to was from the tribe in the Thule district. Cultures came and died, they were few individuals and very isolated. They no longer are, and since 300 years they are also Christians The first missionaries must have been chocked.

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5 hours ago, andres said:

Almost all cultures have been obsessed by purity. We always know who the mother is, but the father has been uncertain (until the DNA tests). For this reason men have put restrictions on their women.

Salam Andres,

I don't think the main reason for sexual purity is pregnancy and fatherhood, though it is a reason.

God gave commands concerning sexual purity for a person's physical and emotional well-being. The following is a list of the dangers of sexual immorality (which includes premarital sex):

1. Broken hearts: Many people suffer broken hearts by having sex with and then getting dumped by that person. This increases "emotional baggage" which the person then usually carries into the next relationship. Some people experience broken heart after broken heart and question, "What's wrong with me? Why am I always abandoned after premarital sex?" 

The reason for broken hearts after premarital sex and being dumped is because God created a man and a woman to be "one flesh" (Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:8, 1 Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 5:31). Sex is a physical picture of that "one flesh" state.

2. Sexually transmitted diseases: It is much easier to avoid sexual diseases when not exposed to as many sexual partners. Many people have sex, not knowing that they even have a sexual disease.  One of my friends has a sexual disease that she got from having sex before marriage with a womanizer. Needless to say, she wishes she had never seen the guy.

Definitely married people can be infected with sexually transmitted diseases, but abstaining from premarital sex does help avoid sexually transmitted diseases before marriage.

3. Marrying mistakes: some people marry due to having sex before marriage, especially when the woman gets pregnant. However, one or both knows that he/she made a mistake. Premarital sex can blind people into not detecting that a person is not the right lifemate for her/him. One of my friends married the guy she had premarital sex with, and came to regret it. She had been so enamored with his physical appearance and feelings from sex that she neglected to see if he was a man of integrity. He was not. :( He verbally abused her, and cheated on her many times before she divorced him.

So, there are more reasons than just "Who's the daddy?" for God commanding sexual purity. Thank God, He forgives people for their sins (including having premarital sex) when they confess to Him and repent. Christians believe that Jesus Christ took the harsh penalty for sins when He died on the cross and rose again to life!  While some Christians think that this means it doesn't matter if we obey God or not, other Christians understand the importance of obeying God.

God loves people, and wants the best for them. God made commands to help people, not hurt them!!! :)

Peace and God bless you

 

 

 

Edited by Christianlady

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Hi ChristianLady

You are right. Of course there is more than one reason. But cultures differ, and if promiscuity was necessary for survival, this was naturally accepted. What we condemn today was accepted only some generations ago. Slavery. There were Christian priests that defended the slave trade with arguments like: "when they are exported from africa, they will become christians and be saved". When Iceland in year 1.000 (precisely!)  decided to drop the pagan faith and become a part of the Catholic Church, it was on condition that they could continue to leave unwanted newborn children to die in the wilderness. The Pope accepted. Moral values change. 

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23 minutes ago, andres said:

Hi ChristianLady

You are right. Of course there is more than one reason.

Salam Andres,

Yep, and remember, many societies put emphasis on sexual purity because of God. (Some other - not all other- societies included sexual immorality in worship of gods and idols.)

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What we condemn today was accepted only some generations ago. Slavery.

Sad but true. :(

However, there are arguments in the New Testament which show that slavery is a no-no. For example, while Jesus Christ's command to "Do to others as you would have them do to you." does not specifically mention slavery, it's common sense that if I don't want to be enslaved, I shouldn't enslave others.

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There were Christian priests that defended the slave trade with arguments like: "when they are exported from africa, they will become christians and be saved". When Iceland in year 1.000 (precisely!)  decided to drop the pagan faith and become a part of the Catholic Church, it was on condition that they could continue to leave unwanted newborn children to die in the wilderness. The Pope accepted.

:(

It horrifies me personally when some American Christians call the USA a "Christian nation." I 100% agree with Frederick Douglass who eloquently stated this about mainly, I assume, about Protestants of America in his day: (I boldend some and separated long paragraphs into smaller ones.)

"What I have said respecting and against religion, I mean strictly to apply to the slaveholding religion of this land, and with no possible reference to Christianity proper; for, between the Christianity of this land, and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference--so wide, that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked.

To be the friend of the one, is of necessity to be the enemy of the other. I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ:

I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. (Appendix.1) -

http://www.shmoop.com/life-of-frederick-douglass/religion-quotes-2.html

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Moral values change. 

True. However, the New Testament of the Bible does encourage sexual purity, though without the harsh punishments given in the Old Testament. And, while neither the Old or New Testament directly/specifically forbid all slavery, Jesus commanding the Golden Rule is in my opinion an indirect command against enslaving others.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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Some of them are like this because they have a false notion of two things:

 

- chastity

- marriage

 

Their false perception of these things is what causes them to say and do such things. That, coupled with the corruption which is rampant in the society around them, causes them to feel the need to fight back. It comes out like this.

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2 hours ago, Christianlady said:

 

However, there are arguments in the New Testament which show that slavery is a no-no. For example, while Jesus Christ's command to "Do to others as you would have them do to you." does not specifically mention slavery, it's common sense that if I don't want to be enslaved, I shouldn't enslave others.

 

There are arguments, yes, but had the Gospels or the Quran been written 200 years ago in America, they would have protested against slavery heavily. Slavery was a natural part of society not long ago, all over the world. 

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2 hours ago, andres said:

Hi ChristianLady

You are right. Of course there is more than one reason. But cultures differ, and if promiscuity was necessary for survival, this was naturally accepted. What we condemn today was accepted only some generations ago. Slavery. There were Christian priests that defended the slave trade with arguments like: "when they are exported from africa, they will become christians and be saved". When Iceland in year 1.000 (precisely!)  decided to drop the pagan faith and become a part of the Catholic Church, it was on condition that they could continue to leave unwanted newborn children to die in the wilderness. The Pope accepted. Moral values change. 

There were priests who condemned slavery,too. Not enough, though, IMHO.

Not real familiar with the Icelandic conversion saga, but  I thought It was a deal between the pagan high priest and King Olaf of Norway. Don't know how much the Pope got into it. At any rate, the Church soon ended those practices. Seems the Asatru priest knew it was going to happen.

From Religions in Iceland"But when Thorgeir, a heathen priest, spoke out, everyone listened. "We cannot live in a divided land," he said. "There will never be peace unless we have a single law. I ask you all -- heathens and Christians alike -- to accept the one law that I am about to proclaim." 

All agreed, pledging under oath to abide by his judgement.

He then proclaimed, "Our first principle of law is that all Icelanders shall henceforth be Christian. We shall believe in one God -- Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We shall renounce the worship of idols. We shall no longer expose unwanted children. We shall no longer eat horsemeat. Anyone who does these things openly shall be punished with outlawry, but no punishment will follow if they are done in private." 

Within a few years these heathen practices were prohibited in private as well as in public."

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

There were priests who condemned slavery,too. Not enough, though, IMHO.

Not real familiar with the Icelandic conversion saga, but  I thought It was a deal between the pagan high priest and King Olaf of Norway. Don't know how much the Pope got into it. At any rate, the Church soon ended those practices. Seems the Asatru priest knew it was going to happen.

From Religions in Iceland"But when Thorgeir, a heathen priest, spoke out, everyone listened. "We cannot live in a divided land," he said. "There will never be peace unless we have a single law. I ask you all -- heathens and Christians alike -- to accept the one law that I am about to proclaim." 

All agreed, pledging under oath to abide by his judgement.

He then proclaimed, "Our first principle of law is that all Icelanders shall henceforth be Christian. We shall believe in one God -- Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We shall renounce the worship of idols. We shall no longer expose unwanted children. We shall no longer eat horsemeat. Anyone who does these things openly shall be punished with outlawry, but no punishment will follow if they are done in private." 

Within a few years these heathen practices were prohibited in private as well as in public."

As I said, the Church was opportunistic. I am certain that they counted on that things would change. But things could not change until the reasons for the Icelandic practices had vanished. They lived a hard life and could not afford to take care of too many that could not take care of themselves. Pro life was not something the were wealthy enough to even think about. Changing from Norse Gods to Jesus was not done in one generation either. We can actually still find traces of the old Norse belief in Scandinavia. Today we call it supersticion. My own theory is that saints and virgin birth are a reminicense of old greek and roman religion. Muslims probably also has some. Jinns and the Kaaba? Dont know.

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2 hours ago, andres said:

Changing from Norse Gods to Jesus was not done in one generation either. We can actually still find traces of the old Norse belief in Scandinavia. Today we call it supersticion.

We admit to being somewhat opportunistic in the past. Recently the Church "cleaned up "the calendar of saints ....to include only actual humans. But old habits die hard.

Catholic humor: ( " Saint Bridget")

image.jpeg

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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6 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

We admit to being somewhat opportunistic in the past. Recently the Church "cleaned up "the calendar of saints ....to include only actual humans. But old habits die hard.

Catholic humor: ( " Saint Bridget")

image.jpeg

Each generation critizises the past.  At least in the west. We will not live to know what they say about us 100 years from now. But I am curious.

Edited by andres

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