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Christianity contains the Scriptures which were given to the Children Of Israel by Prophet Moses. Prophet Îsa taught the people of Jerusalem and led his followers. Christians are supposed to follow the true Scriptures of Prophet Musa and the teachings of Îsa. Saint Paul claimed to have seen Prophet Îsa in his dreams and told him to change the rulings that were originally settled. Pork was allowed for Christians to eat, Saint Paul said that Christians dont have to get circumsized. Prophet Îsa talked about the coming of Rasoolalah and Rasoolalah is mentioned in the bible as well as the "Unlettered Prophet". Any elaborations?

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Salam

The original gospel revealed by Allah is not what is in the N Testament today unfortunately. It is just the records be certain companions of Jesus.

This is why innovations can be introduced so easily into Christianity, and they have been in large numbers as they have no solid word of God.

And the original was most likely distorted as well, just as the Quran was.

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On 4/19/2017 at 5:03 PM, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Salam

The original gospel revealed by Allah is not what is in the N Testament today unfortunately. It is just the records be certain companions of Jesus.

This is why innovations can be introduced so easily into Christianity, and they have been in large numbers as they have no solid word of God.

And the original was most likely distorted as well, just as the Quran was.

I am talking about the initial beliefs that the Christians are supposed to have, they were taught and revealed the Laws Of Islamic Monotheism but they went astray because of the [teachings of] Paul. 

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13 hours ago, AfricanShia said:

Christianity contains the Scriptures which were given to the Children Of Israel by Prophet Moses. Prophet Îsa taught the people of Jerusalem and led his followers. Christians are supposed to follow the true Scriptures of Prophet Musa and the teachings of Îsa. Saint Paul claimed to have seen Prophet Îsa in his dreams and told him to change the rulings that were originally settled. Pork was allowed for Christians to eat, Saint Paul said that Christians dont have to get circumsized. Prophet Îsa talked about the coming of Rasoolalah and Rasoolalah is mentioned in the bible as well as the "Unlettered Prophet". Any elaborations?

The Bible say Moses recieved the 10 commands from God written on stonetablets, during a time when the Israelites still worshipped Canaanean gods. The Jewish Bible itself was written long after, during the 1st century BC by different writers, so we can not possible follow scriptures written by Moses.

Paul does not say that Jesus told him that Pork was OK and circumcision not necessary. Had this been the case, he certainly had used this argument when discussing with the Christians in Jerusalem. I believe this was Pauls own conclusion. Not all Christians agreed back then. For almost 2.000 years Christians now have agreed on Pauls view, and this has worked just fine. 

The idea that all Prophets had the same message as Muhammed, where does this come from? Does the Quran say so, or is it a post-Quranic construction. (Like our Christian trinity)??

Edited by andres

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44 minutes ago, andres said:

The Bible say Moses recieved the 10 commands from God written on stonetablets, during a time when the Israelites still worshipped Canaanean gods. The Jewish Bible itself was written long after, during the 1st century BC by different writers, so we can not possible follow scriptures written by Moses.

Paul does not say that Jesus told him that Pork was OK and circumcision not necessary. Had this been the case, he certainly had used this argument when discussing with the Christians in Jerusalem. I believe this was Pauls own conclusion. Not all Christians agreed back then. For almost 2.000 years Christians now have agreed on Pauls view, and this has worked just fine. 

The idea that all Prophets had the same message as Muhammed, where does this come from? Does the Quran say so, or is it a post-Quranic construction. (Like our Christian trinity)??

We technically already have the 10 commandments first and Paul did claim to have seen îsa in his dreams in which he had the capability to change rulings. It doesnt matter that the bible says that Moses recieved the laws on tablets that is irrelevant. Your kind of off topic a bit. Im explaining the initial beliefs that Christians are supposed to have. If the beliefs of Christianity was never changed then basically they would be Muslims. Judaism is closer to Islam than you think. You forget that Prophet îsa himself was born as a Jew. 

Edited by AfricanShia

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59 minutes ago, AfricanShia said:

We technically already have the 10 commandments first and Paul did claim to have seen îsa in his dreams in which he had the capability to change rulings. It doesnt matter that the bible says that Moses recieved the laws on tablets that is irrelevant. Your kind of off topic a bit. Im explaining the initial beliefs that Christians are supposed to have. If the beliefs of Christianity was never changed then basically they would be Muslims. Judaism is closer to Islam than you think. You forget that Prophet îsa himself was born as a Jew. 

I do not remember Paul saying Jesus gave him the authority to change the rules of pork and circumcision. Where did you find this info? 

Judaism have many similarities with Islam, I agree. But does the Quran say all prophets, Jesus inclusuve, had the same message as Muhammed? Or is it a conclusion made by his followers?

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57 minutes ago, andres said:

I do not remember Paul saying Jesus gave him the authority to change the rules of pork and circumcision. Where did you find this info? 

Judaism have many similarities with Islam, I agree. But does the Quran say all prophets, Jesus inclusuve, had the same message as Muhammed? Or is it a conclusion made by his followers?

All Prophets had different messages. Rasoolalah's mission was to warn those who went astray, the Arab pagans. Read the bible. Paul makes it permissible to eat pork and to not get circumsized at the genitals but to circumsize the heart(open your heart). Jesus does not make these things permissible in the Bible yet they follow Paul. 

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39 minutes ago, AfricanShia said:

All Prophets had different messages. Rasoolalah's mission was to warn those who went astray, the Arab pagans. Read the bible. Paul makes it permissible to eat pork and to not get circumsized at the genitals but to circumsize the heart(open your heart). Jesus does not make these things permissible in the Bible yet they follow Paul. 

So Muhammed came with a new message. This makes sense and I agree with this.

Paul is not a Prophet. Mayve he can be compared with an Ayatollah?

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32 minutes ago, andres said:

So Muhammed came with a new message. This makes sense and I agree with this.

Paul is not a Prophet. Mayve he can be compared with an Ayatollah?

Paul was a delusional man who preached blaspheme. How can you compare him with an Ayatollah who studied and perfected Arabic, Persian and pre-Arab language since the age of 8 years old and studied the Quran and Hadith so much that he knows it like the back of his hand. People have said that when they stand around Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani they can feel an aura of energy. Rasoolalah sealed the faith as a whole, an actual religion with a Holy Book that contains all the knowledge that the previous Prophets delivered to mankind plus the prophecies to come. Paul in the eyes of Christianity is more like a disciple but we cannot equate him to any of the Shia ranking clerics. 

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31 minutes ago, AfricanShia said:

Paul was a delusional man who preached blaspheme. How can you compare him with an Ayatollah who studied and perfected Arabic, Persian and pre-Arab language since the age of 8 years old and studied the Quran and Hadith so much that he knows it like the back of his hand. People have said that when they stand around Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani they can feel an aura of energy. Rasoolalah sealed the faith as a whole, an actual religion with a Holy Book that contains all the knowledge that the previous Prophets delivered to mankind plus the prophecies to come. Paul in the eyes of Christianity is more like a disciple but we cannot equate him to any of the Shia ranking clerics. 

Studying the Quran intensively is no guarantee that it leads to a perfect result. There are quite a lot of disagreements on how to interpret the Quran. Jews did not agree on how to interpret the Torah either, and all Christians do not agree with everything Paul said. Paul was not perfect, Christians believe no human is, and he claimed not that Jesus had told him to change the circumcision and pork rules (as you claimed.)

By the way, Paul was a Pharisee, he knew his Bible. As well as Ayatollahs do?  I dont know, you do not either.

Edited by andres

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16 minutes ago, andres said:

Studying the Quran intensively is no guarantee that it leads to a perfect result. There are quite a lot of disagreements on how to interpret the Quran. Jews did not agree on how to interpret the Torah either, and all Christians do not agree with everything Paul said. Paul was not perfect, Christians believe no human is, and he claimed not that Jesus had told him to change the circumcision and pork rules (as you claimed.)

By the way, Paul was a Pharisee, he knew his Bible. As well as Ayatollahs do?  I dont know, you do not either.

I do know but if ur going to support that type of thinking the the discussion is finished. 

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2 hours ago, AfricanShia said:

I do know but if ur going to support that type of thinking the the discussion is finished. 

Only open the door far enough to let your opinions out. 

You have the standard "Muslim" view of Paul, and the typical response to any form of correction.

Any Christian knows for a fact that your bias comes from non scriptural sources and you have not read anything of Paul for yourself.

Just sayin.

 

P.S, that being said, True Christianity never believed in a trinity, and with research you'll find out Paul didn't preach it either.

Edited by Son of Placid
PS

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16 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Only open the door far enough to let your opinions out. 

You have the standard "Muslim" view of Paul, and the typical response to any form of correction.

Any Christian knows for a fact that your bias comes from non scriptural sources and you have not read anything of Paul for yourself.

Just sayin.

 

P.S, that being said, True Christianity never believed in a trinity, and with research you'll find out Paul didn't preach it either.

P.S I know that True Christianity doesnt believe in the Trinity. P.S the discussion is over. P.S I dont need that disrespectful comment from you. 

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13 hours ago, AfricanShia said:

We technically already have the 10 commandments first and Paul did claim to have seen îsa in his dreams in which he had the capability to change rulings. It doesnt matter that the bible says that Moses recieved the laws on tablets that is irrelevant. Your kind of off topic a bit. Im explaining the initial beliefs that Christians are supposed to have. If the beliefs of Christianity was never changed then basically they would be Muslims. Judaism is closer to Islam than you think. You forget that Prophet îsa himself was born as a Jew. 

There is really no way that you could possibly know this.  To know that the Prophet Muhammad saw Jesus in a dream and that Jesus told him that he could change rulings.  And this idea that the original teachings were those of modern day Islam.  These are things that you just couldnt possibly know, rather you could only have faith in words of people.

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10 hours ago, AfricanShia said:

 People have said that when they stand around Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani they can feel an aura of energy.

Perhaps we should worship him if he has divine energy emanating from his body

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1 hour ago, iCambrian said:

Perhaps we should worship him if he has divine energy emanating from his body

Thank you. That is exactly what I meant. I cant believe you got it right. Wow. 

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21 hours ago, AfricanShia said:

P.S I dont need that disrespectful comment from you. 

Please describe the disrespect. Oh first...

Explain how a post on Christians don't know their own religion and follow an antichrist belief system, based on the scandalous  teachings from Muslim scholars afraid of Christianity is going to conjure any respect. 

Add that the discussion is limited to your opinion and has no room for actual discussion, as it's only "that type of thinking" going on around you.

If you want to exchange respect for respect it's always good to start with respect.

Did you want to understand why Paul had such a strong influence on Christianity and what he really said, or why calling him the antichrist is, over the wall offensive, and ignorant, or are you good with the lies they told you?

 

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8 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Please describe the disrespect. Oh first...

Explain how a post on Christians don't know their own religion and follow an antichrist belief system, based on the scandalous  teachings from Muslim scholars afraid of Christianity is going to conjure any respect. 

Add that the discussion is limited to your opinion and has no room for actual discussion, as it's only "that type of thinking" going on around you.

If you want to exchange respect for respect it's always good to start with respect.

Did you want to understand why Paul had such a strong influence on Christianity and what he really said, or why calling him the antichrist is, over the wall offensive, and ignorant, or are you good with the lies they told you?

 

The truth is that much of SC has lost quality in its posts over the years.  A decade ago things were much different here. The majority of posts made these days involve the bashing of others, whether it be insulting Christians, or atheists, or Sunnis etc.  It comes from a political end as well, insulting the US in particular, insulting turkey or a number of European countries.  While I hold my disagreement with atheists or sunnis or US foreign policy, there are better quality topics worth discussing that do not involve subjective insults or unsubstantiated claims. Science, Philosophy, Theology.  These are topics that have been truly lost here in SC.  Now, discussions of theology just involve...well, as said above, offensive unsubstantiated claims such as Paul being an antichrist and Ayatollahs having a divine aura around them.

African Shia is merely a piece of a larger puzzle.

Edited by iCambrian

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7 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

The truth is that much of SC has lost quality in its posts over the years.  A decade ago things were much different here. The majority of posts made these days involve the bashing of others, whether it be insulting Christians, or atheists, or Sunnis etc.  It comes from a political end as well, insulting the US in particular, insulting turkey or a number of European countries.  While I hold my disagreement with atheists or sunnis or US foreign policy, there are better quality topics worth discussing that do not involve subjective insults or unsubstantiated claims. Science, Philosophy, Theology.  These are topics that have been truly lost here in SC.  Now, discussions of theology just involve...well, as said above, offensive unsubstantiated claims such as Paul being an antichrist and Ayatollahs having a divine aura around them.

African Shia is merely a piece of a larger puzzle.

Thank you My Brother. Just know that I know things of that which you do not know and vice-versa. Its good to learn things from others instead of making yourself seem more intellectually superior. Now that is the problem of ShiaChat. 

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