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12 hours ago, Marbles said:

Perhaps some people do it more than others. Perhaps some groups don't have a redeeming achievment to brag about, except building nukes...

Anyway self-criticism is good and even healthy, but self-hate is not.

12 hours ago, starlight said:

@Shaykh Patience101 It's not about self criticism. It's about looking down on people of other races. 

I would say Pakistanis have more of a tendency to 'look up' to people of other races than look down. The remnants of colonialism are still very much alive. It's astonishing how many times you hear expats here in the West saying things along the lines of "Dekho Chini/Gorey/Japani/Whatever itni mehnat kar rahe hein, hamare Desi abi tak itne nakame/awara/ghair paband/chor/mazdur/ghareeb/ghulam/insertanyotherderogratorytraithere hein". And more often than not these statements are accompanied by a tacit understanding that these "racial traits" legitimize the complainer's own laziness or inaction. 

2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

All cultures have their nuances. Why hate on them for it?

For example, we have juloos (procession), tazaya, alam, zuljanah, etc and a lot of non-Desis dont get it, question it, make fun of it, etc.

I found it weird, disturbing and offensive that in Iraq they re-enact Karbala with actors and set up depictions of Karbala using fake blood and figurines. But I dont hate Iraqis or make fun of them or think they are wrong. They have a right to do azadari the way they see fit and as long as no sharia is being broken, why hate on it?

Different cultures, different traditions but one goal.

I say this not so much because of the peculiarities of the azadari practiced in the region, but more so due to the fact that Desis back home, on average, are more likely to have tendencies towards ghuluw. They also gravitate far more easily to zakir-type of preacher-entertainers that spread lies and falsehoods about the religion (perhaps due to the fact that they're less-educated than their Iraqi and Irani counterparts, who listen to actual scholars on a far more regular basis).

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

 @Darth Vader 

There is always a jug of Lassi with a big block of ice in our fridge throughout the summer months.We still make butter at home sometimes. We enjoy desi ghee parathas for breakfast. No one in my family watches Indians movies or soaps.

 

1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Lassi is a staple in our house during ramazan.

Sorry but thats not lassi. Real Lassi is produced when butter is extracted from yogurt. Even the villagers don't make it anymore except on rare occasions.

1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

As the world becomes more and more global, all cultures are merging into a Hodge-podge, hybrid culture and by and large Hollywood is winning out.

No in case of local Desis, Bollywood has won. Like any color would dye a piece of cotton the "Desi" are always ready to fall for anything. Yes I also dislike the Japanese. They destroyed their own identity over a century ago. Its their own fault not mcdonalds'.

What is there to appreciate, really.

Did you know in the past there used to be "mela" or seasonal festivals. We even had our own martial heritage and it would be displayed on mela in the form of a game called "Gatka". I bet you never heard of it. It was the art of using a staff in a acrobatic and beautiful manner fit for charming the crowds on festivals. A man knowing this art could fight a small army of staff wielders on his own. But now it is extinct, like the dinosaur. Only names remain and inside all is same. We have mussalman names, we are desi. Yeah yeah yeah.

 

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34 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

They also gravitate far more easily to zakir-type of preacher-entertainers that spread lies and falsehoods about the religion (perhaps due to the fact that they're less-educated than their Iraqi and Irani counterparts, who listen to actual scholars on a far more regular basis).

Yes, this is a good point I forgot to mention. 

A high population with a high demand for religious instruction and leadership, but short supply, resources, infrastructure, and personnel. They have to take what's available, which isn't much. Just like the Western world.

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1 hour ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

I say this not so much because of the peculiarities of the azadari practiced in the region, but more so due to the fact that Desis back home, on average, are more likely to have tendencies towards ghuluw. They also gravitate far more easily to zakir-type of preacher-entertainers that spread lies and falsehoods about the religion (perhaps due to the fact that they're less-educated than their Iraqi and Irani counterparts, who listen to actual scholars on a far more regular basis).

Sure there is an element of that but then those elements exist in arabian and iranian cultures too.

Anyone who has walked from Najaf to Karbala can probably attest to this - there are more than 1 depictions of the tragedy of Karbala wiht figurines and fake blood including a headless body that squirts blood intermittently. I just smiled at the people there and moved on. No judgement from me.

1 hour ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

I would say Pakistanis have more of a tendency to 'look up' to people of other races than look down. The remnants of colonialism are still very much alive. It's astonishing how many times you hear expats here in the West saying things along the lines of "Dekho Chini/Gorey/Japani/Whatever itni mehnat kar rahe hein, hamare Desi abi tak itne nakame/awara/ghair paband/chor/mazdur/ghareeb/ghulam/insertanyotherderogratorytraithere hein". And more often than not these statements are accompanied by a tacit understanding that these "racial traits" legitimize the complainer's own laziness or inaction. 

All people have built-in racial stereotypes as wrong as it is.

1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

Sorry but thats not lassi. Real Lassi is produced when butter is extracted from yogurt. Even the villagers don't make it anymore except on rare occasions.

Bro - next you will say its not milk unless you've milked the cow yourself. hahaha

1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

Did you know in the past there used to be "mela" or seasonal festivals. We even had our own martial heritage and it would be displayed on mela in the form of a game called "Gatka". I bet you never heard of it. It was the art of using a staff in a acrobatic and beautiful manner fit for charming the crowds on festivals. A man knowing this art could fight a small army of staff wielders on his own. But now it is extinct, like the dinosaur. Only names remain and inside all is same. We have mussalman names, we are desi. Yeah yeah yeah.

there are basant festivals all across the US now. :)

Still waiting for constructive criticism brother.

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I kind of have to agree with @Darth Vader on this. In Iran there are many problems, but we tend to only focus on the problems that come from the outside, while Iranian expats like myself focus on the inside problems.

For example, many men in rural Iran take 5-6 wives, and always treat the new one best while never spending time or caring about the others. Or the issue of widespread prostitution thanks to rural women moving to big cities like Tehran.

And of course outsiders refuse to acknowledge the many innocent people killed by the Shah in Iran. They don't acknowledge the West's meddling in Iranian affairs.

My point is, we must acknowledge our societal problems, and try our best to fix them, without hating ourselves.

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7 hours ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

I would say Pakistanis have more of a tendency to 'look up' to people of other races than look down.

While this might to true to some extent in real life it doesn't apply to this thread because the people desis look up to are usually 'goras' English speaking white western people of which we do not have many on this forum. Nor do the desi members of SC come from the population of average brown people who lookup to the goras. It's the Arabs and persians on SC looking down on pakistanis and indians.

7 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

Sorry but thats not lassi. Real Lassi is produced when butter is extracted from yogurt

But Vader this requires churning....by hand.... for hours! Whipped whole milk homemade yogurt is lassi enough for me. Next,you will be saying we are not desi enough because we don't mill our own flour at home anymore. :dry:  

This made me remember the time me and my colleagues made the grave mistake of drinking real lassi one fine summer morning. We spent the rest of the day sleeping on our desks in various uncomfortable positions.lol. 

Gatka is traditionally associated with Sikhs so maybe that's one of the reasons it died in Pakistan.

Edited by starlight

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On 4/19/2017 at 3:49 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Said member also kept calling me "white boy" after I told them to stop, but that's entirely my fault because I tolerated it when I shouldn't have.

When I see somebody use the word white or brown I don't feel good about it. Why do people have to throw these words out there? Islam says there is no superiority of anyone, and the best people have taqwa. Pious people are the best people, no matter what race they are. 

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23 minutes ago, wolverine said:

When I see somebody use the word white or brown I don't feel good about it. Why do people have to throw these words out there?

I don't know, people are people. We're always judging someone by their appearance, origins, how they speak or they live, etc. It's human nature and unfortunately, it's simply unacceptable.

 

30 minutes ago, wolverine said:

Islam says there is no superiority of anyone, and the best people have taqwa. Pious people are the best people, no matter what race they are. 

That's the beauty of Islam ^

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5 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

Yes I also dislike the Japanese. They destroyed their own identity over a century ago

Why? Their cultural identity simply evolved into some weird perverse behemoth of fatalism and consumerism, especially after World War II. I love Japan and it's Sengoku Jidai history.

I love the traditional Japanese culture and it's soul and aesthetics, but the modern Japanese culture seems soulless and very unappealing to me.

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45 minutes ago, wolverine said:

When I see somebody use the word white or brown I don't feel good about it. Why do people have to throw these words out there?

I don't know of any reason to describe a person's appearance on a forum, but I'm perfectly comfortable using words like this to describe appearance. For example, in a recent conversation with my daughter, she was telling me which was her friend in a group of little girls all dressed the same: the girl with medium brown skin and dark brown braided hair, who is beside the girl with dark brown skin and short curly black hair.  If we become too sensitive, we start to lose ability to communicate clearly. There's no value judgement in a description. 

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^ True, but when words of color are mentioned at ShiaChat, it is not simply for description but usually as an insult. I love ethnicity and I feel that love (that warm feeling) when people are proud of their own ethnicity. It's when somebody puts someone else down that it gets depressing. 

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3 hours ago, starlight said:

But Vader this requires churning....by hand.... for hours!

Wrong. There are machines to do this since quite some time. The point is that there is no more real milk or its use as God intended. And people do not want to have a lot of lassi to treat others with it.

You guys don't want these things that's understandable. It is why the lifespans, health and length of bones has deteriorated so bad

6 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

there are basant festivals all across the US now.

A hindu festival is spreading across US? Okay. Maybe that is relevant to the discussion somehow.

3 hours ago, starlight said:

Gatka is traditionally associated with Sikhs so maybe that's one of the reasons it died in Pakistan.

Sikh are the original Desi. Hindu are from various origins.

Funny. 

2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

the modern Japanese culture seems soulless and very unappealing to me.

Exactly! it is soulless. Similarly, the Desi today are no more Desi than the modern Japanese are Samurai.

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1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

You guys don't want these things that's understandable. It is why the lifespans, health and length of bones has deteriorated so bad

This is another mantra that I don't understand. There is absolutely no proof that 'old', traditional food is somehow way healthier than modern food. If this was true, Western countries would be way behind Pakistan and India (where food is processed much less) in terms of lifespan and longevity. Traditional desi food of the kind your reminiscing about (full of butter and desi ghee) is actually highly unhealthy.

It's very easy to fall back on the argument that traditional, self-grown, organic cuisine is infinitely healthier than the food we found in supermarkets. It's also easy to blame every disease ever on modern eating habits. It is however, very difficult to back this up with actual, non-anecdotal evidence. 

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3 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

This is another mantra that I don't understand. There is absolutely no proof that 'old', traditional food is somehow way healthier than modern food. 

Oh yes there is. I will post it if I get the time. The longer life expectancy of people living in the west are due to better enviornment and healthcare facilities. Cardiovascular diseases are now labelled an epidemic in the western world,what do you think is the cause? 

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3 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

A hindu festival is spreading across US? Okay. Maybe that is relevant to the discussion somehow.

Still Desi isn't it???

It's celebrated as a Spring Festival. If we can celebrate Nawroz, why not Basant? That's the complex I am talking about. 

A Desi kite festival!!! Must be bad!!!

There is a dark side I sense in this one. Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering...

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

Oh yes there is. I will post it if I get the time. The longer life expectancy of people living in the west are due to better enviornment and healthcare facilities. Cardiovascular diseases are now labelled an epidemic in the western world,what do you think is the cause? 

Just a guess

fast-food.thumb.jpg.ad294f79de34872413b078daaacae99d.jpg

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55 minutes ago, Marbles said:

4 delicious lassis to cool down with this summer

This is Satan's plan to destroy our authentic lassi with these false floozy flavoured concoctions! 

Chocolate lassi?? :tongueangry:

So wait... If I mix yogurt and fruits to make a drink, it's lassi? Well if that's the case, we have lassi in my house all the time. 

And why is a discussion of racism evolving into a discussion of food? It isn't even Ramadan. Why do y'all have food on your minds? 

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13 hours ago, starlight said:

Oh yes there is. I will post it if I get the time. The longer life expectancy of people living in the west are due to better enviornment and healthcare facilities. Cardiovascular diseases are now labelled an epidemic in the western world,what do you think is the cause? 

You can also blame cancer, multiple sclerosis, and as many other diseases as you want on Western food, but I've never actually seen proof for this.

My point is that processed food doesn't somehow cause " lifespans, health and length of bones " to deteriorate exponentially. And neither is desi food cooked in ghee and filled with butter a gold standard of healthy eating.

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16 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Just a guess

fast-food.thumb.jpg.ad294f79de34872413b078daaacae99d.jpg

Obviously, fast food is different. I'm talking about the regular cuisine of people in the West that's now almost exclusively derived from processed foods- ie: the kind of stuff you'll find in your local supermarket. What I'm saying is that subsistence farmers living in rural Pakistan and growing their own food aren't going to have magically longer bones and lifespans because their food is 'healthier.' A person living in the West with access to the multiplicity of healthy foods available has a much easier way of eating healthy than a poor, illiterate farmer drowning himself in ghee every meal. In the West it comes down to a lifestyle choice, and Western cuisine isn't somehow "inferior" to traditional foods.

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15 hours ago, notme said:

... If I mix yogurt and fruits to make a drink, it's lassi? 

No. See that's the thing. Calling this concoction lassi is a grave insult to the idea and philosophy of lassi! Corrupting it with fruity flavours is salt on the wound :(

But in the brave new world this thing passes for lassi.

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