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Racism on ShiaChat

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Good enough, I thunderpalmed at his ridiculous Afrocentrist beliefs too. Remember Shiaman, all that gobbledy gook about Nubians?

To this day, I have no clue what he was trying to say about the Nubians and more importantly how discussing it made you 'racist'.

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17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

So there's discrimination against converts here, no doubt. Shame really,but I have my friends here.

there is absolutely discrimination against reverts. especially black reverts. I used to know a black revert brother from jamaica, really top guy, decent momin mashaAllah, well educated, good job etc. really struggled finding a wife because of muslim racism towards black people. ended up marrying a revert sister in the end, after giving up on born muslims. 

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17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

So there's discrimination against converts here, no doubt. Shame really,but I have my friends here.

But if it's reported, it will be dealt with quickly. It isn't tolerated by the people in charge.

I've actually seen less "racism" against converts here than in real life. In real life, born Muslims like to assume that white converts must have had "wild" lives before becoming Muslim. I don't know about others, I'm sure some did drink and dance and date around, but I didn't and I don't like having untrue assumptions held against me. I'm certain nobody does. 

Rather than making assumptions about people based on their skin tone or facial structure, it's best to just get to know them before claiming to know them.

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20 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Desi comes from the Desh (Hindi for India and pronoucned with a soft D)...so to be a "Desi" means you are one from "Desh"

Desh simply means country or homeland. It's variant, Des, is used in Urdu.

Desi دیسی comes from Des دیس 

21 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

It has now become synonymous with people from indo-pak region living in the West

It is used for all people belonging to the subcontinent regardless of where they live. The label became more prominent among the community in the West because of their need to define themselves against others.

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22 hours ago, E.L King said:

People think that many cultural issues in Shi'ism is because of what happens in that region. That's what I think.

Not really. Arabs, Persians and others have brought their own cultural peculiarities to Islam. Subcontinental people aren't alone in this.

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On 4/19/2017 at 11:41 PM, shiaman14 said:

I am only asking because there was a recent thread which referred to "they" and people from the indo-pak region in a negative context.

I would not mind desis being pointed at. Tell me one good thing we are exceptional at (manners, devotion, etc.). Then tell me one bad thing we are not exceptional at (corruption, stealing, fraud, bad language, etc.).

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Satan was a racist. Imam Ali AS denounced him:

4274. Imam Ali (AS), condemning Iblis [Satan], said, ‘So he felt proud of his own creation over Adam’s, and was racist against him because of his origin. The enemy of Allah, therefore, is the leader of all racist bigots, and the forefather of all those who consider themselves superior, who laid the very foundation of bigotry, and tried to wrest the cloak of might from Allah, and assumed the garb of exultation having shed the veil of self-abasement.’10

http://www.hadith.net/en/post/34135/partisanship/

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9 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

I would not mind desis being pointed at. Tell me one good thing we are exceptional at (manners, devotion, etc.). Then tell me one bad thing we are not exceptional at (corruption, stealing, fraud, bad language, etc.).

Recently an Iranian member said similar things about her own Iranians. 

Tendency to criticise one's own group is universal, but people get sensitive when outsiders do it.

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3 minutes ago, Marbles said:

Recently an Iranian member said similar things about her own Iranians. 

Tendency to criticise one's own group is universal, but people get sensitive when outsiders do it.

I don't know if other groups do it, but self-criticizing seems to be a huge flaw with Desis.

Or maybe I'm just saying that because I'm Desi, and it's actually a universal tendency to think one's group self-criticizes too much. This is getting too paradoxical. I'm going to go eat an aloo paratha and lament on how evil us Pakistanis are.

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On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 1:19 PM, E.L King said:

People think that many cultural issues in Shi'ism is because of what happens in that region. That's what I think.

On a more serious note, I actually agree with this. Although of course, it shouldn't be used as an excuse for racism.

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29 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

I don't know if other groups do it, but self-criticizing seems to be a huge flaw with Desis.

Perhaps some people do it more than others. Perhaps some groups don't have a redeeming achievment to brag about, except building nukes...

Anyway self-criticism is good and even healthy, but self-hate is not. On the other hand superiority complex (common among Arabs) is a sin. Non-Arabs are still looked down upon in Arab societies.

Tribal thinking follows from superiority complex and that's one big cultural influence Arabs brought to Islam. We saw that right after the Prophet's death in Saqifa, we see it today in Saudia and Libya.

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21 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

I would not mind desis being pointed at. Tell me one good thing we are exceptional at (manners, devotion, etc.). Then tell me one bad thing we are not exceptional at (corruption, stealing, fraud, bad language, etc.).

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1159561/five-foreigners-took-chance-pakistan/

https://www.mangobaaz.com/her-trip-to-pakistan-was-memorable/

It seems we hate us more than others hate us.

I have never lived in Pakistan but consider myself a proud Pakistani. We have our issues but who doesn't.

Exceptional: Edhi!!!!
Unwelcoming: We are bad at this since we are the most hospitable of people.

Not directed at you but generally I come across a lot of desis who have this inferiority complex about being desi. WHY? WHY? WHY?

11 hours ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

On a more serious note, I actually agree with this. Although of course, it shouldn't be used as an excuse for racism.

All cultures have their nuances. Why hate on them for it?

For example, we have juloos (procession), tazaya, alam, zuljanah, etc and a lot of non-Desis dont get it, question it, make fun of it, etc.

I found it weird, disturbing and offensive that in Iraq they re-enact Karbala with actors and set up depictions of Karbala using fake blood and figurines. But I dont hate Iraqis or make fun of them or think they are wrong. They have a right to do azadari the way they see fit and as long as no sharia is being broken, why hate on it?

Different cultures, different traditions but one goal.

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@Marbles Lets face it, the real Desi dislike criticism and have no idea what constructive criticism is, it gives them bias against anyone pointing out their flaws or repeating their history. What do Pakistanis have to be so proud of I wonder, we were always a nation of crooks. After independence the majority of us Pakistani Mussalman stole, looted and usurped from the Hindu living on this side of the border after killing so many of them. We are no different on the inside. We also do not know how to listen to criticism because we do not wish to correct ourselves. We never took it from our better forefathers when they warned us about Indian movies, no, they kept watching in secret on VCRs and today their offspring are weird and confused. The Shia ones have become 'Shindu' due to our insisting on ignorance. So our religious rituals are not practiced elsewhere in the world, being ignorant and proud Desis we are we insist that we are right anyway and Mola Ya Ali will forgive us regardless if we broke the legs and twisted the neck of his deen. That pretty much rests the case for the rest of the society imo who only have muslim names and the peak of their religious praxis is to kill minorities and appropriate their belongings for Allah who sits on a throne and likes to see people chewing twigs and spitting in the morning.

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59 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1159561/five-foreigners-took-chance-pakistan/

https://www.mangobaaz.com/her-trip-to-pakistan-was-memorable/

It seems we hate us more than others hate us.

I have never lived in Pakistan but consider myself a proud Pakistani. We have our issues but who doesn't.

Exceptional: Edhi!!!!
Unwelcoming: We are bad at this since we are the most hospitable of people.

Not directed at you but generally I come across a lot of desis who have this inferiority complex about being desi. WHY? WHY? WHY?

Because reform starts from within and only after identifying and realizing our faults. I believe it is a healthy thing. Be thankful for Edhi and the handful you can count on the fingers of one of your hands from within 0.2 billion people total.

Yes I do have problems with certain things we have done. One of the things that grieve me the most is the state of our language Urdu. This outstanding new and powerful language with all its beauties as revealed by so many of its scholars and poets over the course of centuries, what has happened to it now? I am updating my web browser now and see a long list of exotic language while Urdu is not there. They [Edited Out]ized and annexed it inside Hindi, the ugliest of languages with no history, future and no legs. How dare people identify themselves as being from this region and strut around in international circles with these deeds I don't know. "DESIS" where is my Urdu? You let the memory of Iqbal and Ghalib and all the others die like that?? They were our Shakespeare. They translated their works to their languages in hopes of preserving the feel they contain.

Today what is a desi but a sad icon of global cultural assimilation. Your food is all indian, full of spices. "DESI" originated from Punjab and punjabi meals had a cornerstone of lassi which no household today will make. The women used to make butter from yogurt and the whey or "lassi" was produced, another one of our lost identities. Our women are all feminized and rather want cheese burgers. Our men have no shame or honor and want every woman. No we are impostors. There are no desis left. Short generic subcontinental humanoids dressed in western clothing speaking foreign languages and having GIVEN UP our identities are not desi and deserve nothing from others especially the pens of historians are merciless like I am.

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 @Darth Vader 

There is always a jug of Lassi with a big block of ice in our fridge throughout the summer months.We still make butter at home sometimes. We enjoy desi ghee parathas for breakfast. No one in my family watches Indians movies or soaps. 

Stop being so bitter...  unless you are anticipating getting a job in Iran, then carry on with the bashing, you are moving in the right direction. :dry:

Edited by starlight

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1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

Because reform starts from within and only after identifying and realizing our faults. I believe it is a healthy thing. Be thankful for Edhi and the handful you can count on the fingers of one of your hands from within 0.2 billion people total.

Yes I do have problems with certain things we have done. One of the things that grieve me the most is the state of our language Urdu. This outstanding new and powerful language with all its beauties as revealed by so many of its scholars and poets over the course of centuries, what has happened to it now? I am updating my web browser now and see a long list of exotic language while Urdu is not there. They [Edited Out]ized and annexed it inside Hindi, the ugliest of languages with no history, future and no legs. How dare people identify themselves as being from this region and strut around in international circles with these deeds I don't know. "DESIS" where is my Urdu? You let the memory of Iqbal and Ghalib and all the others die like that?? They were our Shakespeare. They translated their works to their languages in hopes of preserving the feel they contain.

Today what is a desi but a sad icon of global cultural assimilation. Your food is all indian, full of spices. "DESI" originated from Punjab and punjabi meals had a cornerstone of lassi which no household today will make. The women used to make butter from yogurt and the whey or "lassi" was produced, another one of our lost identities. Our women are all feminized and rather want cheese burgers. Our men have no shame or honor and want every woman. No we are impostors. There are no desis left. Short generic subcontinental humanoids dressed in western clothing speaking foreign languages and having GIVEN UP our identities are not desi and deserve nothing from others especially the pens of historians are merciless like I am.

This goes back to the inferiority complex we have about our identity. Part of our culture has become to appease everyone. But guess what, Hindu nationalists - crying about the loss of their language and culture. France - talking about the loss of their language and culture. Japan - crying about McDonalds taking over as the food of choice.

As the world becomes more and more global, all cultures are merging into a Hodge-podge, hybrid culture and by and large Hollywood is winning out. But even in America, we see the rise of Trump as a direct result of American nationalism and the feeling that 'American' is being lost to 'Globalican".

Sorry to say but nothing you have posted above constitutes as constructive criticism....at least per my definition.

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3 minutes ago, starlight said:

 @Darth Vader 

There is always jug of Lassi with a big block of ice in our fridge throughout the summer months.We still make butter at home sometimes. We enjoy desi ghee parathas for breakfast. No one in my family watches Indians movies or soaps. 

Stop being so bitter...  unless you are anticipating on working in Iran, then carry on with the bashing, you are moving in the right direction. :dry:

Lassi is a staple in our house during ramazan.

My dad does not eat paratha or even eggs unless its fried in ghee.

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I think the reason the Indo-Pak community may get more attention sometimes is that there are way more of them than others (most obvious reason), so naturally more discussions gravitate in this direction, more eyes of scrutiny exist, and with a higher population, gives a higher chance more "interesting" things can emerge...

Also, the non-Islamic religions in Arabia and Persia had their prominence in ancient history, and are very marginal today, while Hinduism and other non-Islamic religions are very much viable, influential, and rooted in the fabric of the present day subcontinent culture, and can affect Muslims as much as any other group. Not that jahilliya doesn't still affect "more established" Muslim lands. 

 

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