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On 4/16/2017 at 7:34 AM, starlight said:

For the oppressor or bystanders it's easy to say that the act of oppression lasted a few hours so what's the big deal.Ask a mother who does not have the money to pay the doctors fees or buy medicines for a sick child or a father whose children will go to bed hungry...Every second seems like a eternity. 

Repeat this comment to your sis, maybe it'll touch her heart as well as it does mine

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On 4/15/2017 at 11:59 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

She thinks doing good deeds for the sake of Allah or receiving heaven as a reward is being selfish and a fake concept. She says she will do good deeds for society and people.

Essentially she is motivated by Kantianism do good for the sake of good. But then we have to ask what is good, who is defining it, and why does it matter. Without a deity the idea of good becomes insignificant because "good" becomes a relativistic term. Also your sister being "motivated" by people is selfish in itself because it is due to societal pressure and norms rather than for its own sake.

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On 4/15/2017 at 11:59 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

3) She doesn't agree with the idea of heaven and hell. She says that hell is very cruel and who deserves to be burned hell for eternity based on a sin they might of done in limited time.

This is an argument from emotion fallacy it does not matter how she "feels" right and wrong exist independent of our feeling toward them.

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On 4/15/2017 at 11:59 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

She says that why do all Evil people go to hell, once they were like that because of their environment and how they were raised. She said yazid was like that because of his upbringing and had he had a better upbringing he would not of killed the family of prophet Muhammad (saw).

People are influenced by their environment and their own choices their environment reacts to their own decisions. There were plenty of nobles who were present in history in a similar position as Yazid and environment and they did not take the same actions.

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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1) 

Yazid(la) had both good and evil influences in his life. He choose to follow the evil ones instead of the good. That is why he is and will be punished. 

There are probably very few more clear examples of someone who chose to follow evil. 

Yazid(la) had personal access to Imam Ali(a.), Imam Hassan(a.s), and Imam Hussein(a.s). He saw them in the flesh and personally witnessed  their faith, bravery, and good character. This is something that none of us today have or ever had in our lifetimes. 

Because of his wealth and the wealth of his father, he also had access to books, libraries, and vast amounts of history and knowledge. 

Yes, it is true that his mother was Christian and her family drank alcohol, but there are many millions of kids today in the same situation and none of them ever did anything close to what Yazid(la) did in terms of crimes. 

There are millions of examples of people who grow up in homes surrounded by corruption and crime and they turn out to be good people, and there are plenty of examples of people who grew up in homes where everyone in their family practiced the religion and were not hypocrites and they turned out to be atheists and criminals. I know many examples of this from my own life, and I'm sure you do too. 

It says in the Holy Quran that Allah(s.w.a) has shown mankind the two highways, i.e. the path toward truth, happiness, and Paradise and also shown them the path toward toward falsehood, unhappiness, and hellfire and left them free to choose. And at some point in their life, everyone makes their choice, regardless of how they were raised. 

 

2) Human actions are driven by desire. This is an iron clad rule of human behaviour agreed on by everyone from scientists to religious people. No One acts or does anything without there being some underlying desire, which is sometimes called motivation. A baby will not crawl across the room without some kind of desire or motivation to get something or achieve something. 

People who have a relationship with Allah(s.w.a) are motivated by their desire to get closer to Allah(s.w.a), niyyat or qurbah, and this is the prime motivator for their actions. People who take this lower life as their goal, their prime motivator is getting something in this world, but they both have a prime motivator. 

People who say, 'I want to do good just to help people', they have a prime motivator but sometimes it is ill defined, in their own mind, or they have one but just don't want  to share it or are not being honest with themselves about what is their underlying motivation. 

3) Heaven and Hell are the logical end points for a persons process of becoming something. Matter and energy in the universe are not destroyed, but they are merely changing forms. To say that when we die, it just 'ends' is not a logical statement, even according to science. If she believes that we are only a physical body with no spirit, then there are so many millions of facts that she could never find an explanation to. 

- According to the law of conservation of energy, matter and energy never cease to exist, they merely change forms. So our physical body dies and turns to dust and becomes part of the earth, but what about our thoughts, goals, hopes, dreams, what about our loves, our desires, and even our sadness, our disappointments, etc, etc. These are forms of energy. What about our internal 'self' that is separate from our physical body ? The self that doesn't age, the self that we talk to and live with, the self that seperates from our body at night when we are asleep ? 

- If you lose an arm or a leg, does you spirit decrease. Do your hopes and dreams become smaller proportionally to whatever part of your body you lost ? 

- Why is it  that people believed in a heaven and hell since the very earliest phases of human history, before there were organized religions as we know them ? Even the species of humans that came before homo sapiens believed in an afterlife and used to bury their dead and put things in their graves for their journey to the next world. 

These are just a few questions for those who don't believe in an afterlife to answer. There are many more. 

 

 

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I do not think members are answering the question properly. 

OP so her rejection of religion is based on her rejection of heaven and hell, among other things. am I right? 

lets say she is right, and there is no heaven or hell. fine. what else does islam have to offer?

- eat and drink right, stay healthy
- dont do bad things
- be good to your partner, children, family and community
- give to charity
- be brave and strong
- educate yourself
- learn from the past

are these bad things? the only difference between doing these as a muslim or doing them as an atheist is that the muslim believes there is a creator. if there is a god, then the muslim will be rewarded. if there is no god, then no one wins. so its more advantageous to be muslim

so lets say there is no heaven or hell. following islam is still worth following because its the best way to live ones life. if there is no afterlife, then at least we have lived with honour. 

 

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If she Thinks Allah will punish someone unfairly or that someone is going to be punished when their upbringing is the reason for a sinner.to do wrong, then I'm glad she's not Allah swt.

 

Who does she know is in hell that fits her criteria?  How does she know?

 

 

Doing something good for the same of someone else is good for those of understanding, but there are people who aren't of understanding who must be instructed to do good to others for benefit other than Allah's reward.

And who told her that hell fire is eternal ?

Edited by wmehar2

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