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JermainTaylor

Honest Answer Regarding the Regime

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4 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Bahrain is a Shia majority country! What do the majority Shia Bahrainis think about their government? Syria is a Sunni majority country but even western backed polls concede that Syrian sunnis prefer the government to their terrorists, about 55-60% of the population backs the government over any opposition. Yemenis overthrew their government, Hadi fled like a Coward to Saudi and then asked them to go bomb his own people to gain back power. Assad didn't flee Damascus, he was still the president, and legally invited Russia and Iran. Hadi had no legal authority to do that after resigning and being overthrown.

They've killed less? Whom do you refer to? Do you want to count Shias killed by Sunnis throughout history and vice versa? 

In any case, yes, they can have whatever arguments they want to have, their opinion, and I'll have my arguments. The difference is we (Shias) don't have people blowing themselves up on the streets of Paris, Berlin, Brussels, Cairo, Beirut, St. Petersburg you name it. The difference is one tyrannical dictator versus a toxic ideology promoted by the governments they support that threatens the entire planet, they're a bit different! There is no moral equivalence between an ideology and barbarity from figures who are aligned with Shias. Its harsh but look at the violence in their books, and come show me where in Shiite literature, is an ideology which permits you to kill Sunnis and Christians and promises you heaven for that advocated? I'll wait. The fact that you make a moral equivalence between a dictator, and there have been many in history, and terrorist groups that ideologically believe murder grants them heaven says a lot about your ability to reason.

'Bahrain is a shia majority country'

- Well as you reference later, Syria is a sunni majority country. Yes the public was so supportive and totes happy that regime had to resort to shooting protestors in 2011 in cold blood sparking a civil war! But I imagine you have a conspiracy about the zionists/wahabis causing that...

You want to talk about polls now? Saddam's approval rating was unprecedented but that didnt stop many shias absolutely deploring the man and cheering and gloating over his death... Hmm im sure you will make some distinction here as well...

Yemen's somehow different because the leader fled and the government requested help from Saudi against houthi rebels. The president *fleeing made the government totally illegitimate and that is the reason why you are against Saudi & Yemen in regards to their rebels and why you a take a 180 when it comes to Syria. Totally believable there! What a rousing argument!

-"Saudi asked him to bomb his own people to gain back power"-

This is so blinkered and laughable because this describes Russia/Iran & Bashar in Syria, yet you are oblivious and in denial of this...

"they can have whatever arguments they want to have, their opinion, and I'll have my arguments. The difference is.."

Ahh so the difference is your tyrant is secular and doesnt blow up white people and others all over the world. Rather he obliterates his own civilians to desperately cling on to power.

Meanwhile his opponents are are all seemingly savage daesh types who do indiscriminate attacks all over the world. Its their ideology hence we must take wildly different stances to these global events which mirror eachother..... Hmm

The fact that your support has aligned perfectly with where the shias are to gain from is merely a coincidence. Its those evil sectarian wahabis and you are not sectarian at all!

To cariacature all opposition to Assad as daesh & terrorists shows how basic your line of reasoning is. The reason why Syria has proven such an incubator for these extreme groups is due to the savagery and desperation caused by the Assad regime. Let me remind you daesh didnt come up a few years ago in a vacuum. They didnt storm through swathes of Iraq in a vacuum. They were handed that land because the sunnis disenfranchised and desperate from oppressive shia/alawite governments from Maliki/Bashar had no one to resort to. They didnt know the extent of these extreme groups. Similar to shias In early-mid 2000s supporting death squads in Iraq or Hezbies in Lebanon/Syria.

Because your beloved groups and oppressive regimes dont maim people all over the world and concentrate their oppression where it is politically beneficial, it makes them worth supporting! everyone against your beloved group is a sectarian wild beast bombing everywhere which conversely justifies your sectarian views on these conflicts as they perfectly align your support with the shiites in these wars. How quaint!

"says a lot about your ability to reason."

Sure does...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by JermainTaylor

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30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

You want to talk about polls now? Saddam's approval rating was unprecedented but that didnt stop many shias absolutely deploring the man and cheering and gloating over his death... Hmm im sure you will make some distinction here as well...

 

Saddam sucked, but given the situation of Iraq today, i don't know if i would prefer this to him. Ask Iraqi shias what they would prefer ISIS or Saddam.

30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

- Well as you reference later, Syria is a sunni majority country. Yes the public was so supportive and totes happy that regime had to resort to shooting protestors in 2011 in cold blood sparking a civil war! But I imagine you have a conspiracy about the zionists/wahabis causing that...

 

Yes! You do in fact, do your research! You seem to swallow up everything you hear from Western Media, look at how the West has been planning regime change in Syria since 2006, look at what Clinton's emails say about Syria and destroying it for Israel. These are leaked American documents, not some fringe thought somewhere in the sky. Obviously you seem to be allergic to the conspiracy theorist label so you act like a member of the controlled opposition, when in reality, you won't choose to believe something even if it was right infront of you, because the western media says otherwise.

30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

Yemen's somehow different because the leader fled and the government requested help from Saudi against houthi rebels. The president *fleeing made the government totally illegitimate and that is the reason why you are against Saudi & Yemen in regards to their rebels and why you a take a 180 when it comes to Syria. Totally believable there! What a rousing argument!

 

Yes, it highlights lack of public support obviously. If 2 million out of 24 million Syrians protested, should Assad have stepped down? There are videos of armed gangs at these protests please go look them up. In Yemen, they managed to topple the government, there's a difference if a government is toppled it no longer has the legitimacy to ask foreign powers to intervene on its behalf, because its no longer the government of the country.

30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

Ahh so the difference is your tyrant is secular and doesnt blow up white people and others all over the world. Rather he obliterates his own civilians to desperately cling on to power.

 

There is a difference between someone who commits atrocities to hang onto power and someone who wants jihad globally yes! Absolutely! If you think otherwise, you're deluded.

30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

Meanwhile his opponents are are all seemingly savage daesh types who do indiscriminate attacks all over the world. Its their ideology hence we must take wildly different stances to these global events which mirror eachother..... Hmm

 

Most are, some may not be but they don't have enough clout compared to ISIS and Al Nusra to gain power, so that's why ISIS and Al Nusra need to go, to give these people a chance. What part of this is difficult for you to understand?

30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

The fact that our support has aligned perfectly with where the shias are to gain from is merely a coincidence. Its those evil sectarian wahabis and *we are not sectarian at all!

 

We wouldn't help Palestine and Bosnia if we cared about sectarianism. Iran is in fact rather too pro-unity for a lot of Shias. Being anti-wahhabi is not being anti-sunni, if you're a wahhabi, I want nothing to do with you, you're pretty much defending people who praise Muawiyah at this point. 

30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

To cariacature all opposition to Assad as daesh & terrorists shows how basic your line of reasoning is. The reason why Syria has proven such an incubator for these extreme groups is due to the savagery and desperation caused by the Assad regime. Let me remind you daesh didnt come up a few years ago in a vacuum. They didnt storm through swathes of Iraq in a vacuum. They were handed that land because the sunnis disenfranchised and desperate from oppressive shia/alawite governments from Maliki/Bashar had no one to resort to. They didnt know the extent of these extreme groups. Similar to shias In early-mid 2000s supporting death squads in Iraq or Hezbies in Lebanon/Syria.

 

This just highlights your ignorance and your complete lack of understanding as to what the ideology of Saudi Arabia is and how they have helped fuel extremism through their spreading of this heinous ideology. I suppose according to you, the Shias are responsible for Boko Haram and Al Shebab too. Or is it just awfully convenient to you that ISIS and Al Qaeda are because of Shias being oppressive, the rest are because of Saudi ideology? Come off it. From 1979 to 2003, the Shias were oppressed in Iraq, we never sunk to the levels of ISIS and Al Qaeda. Go look at Clinton's emails of how Saudi and Qatar are funding ISIS. Watch journalists report on Da'esh using the Turkish border to go into areas of northern Syria with the help of NGO trucks and read reports of these journalists being "accidentally killed" the day after. I suppose to you all of this is a conspiracy too. No only CNN and BBC tell the truth, like about the WMDS in Iraq, and about how toppling Ghadaffi in Libya was amazing. 

30 minutes ago, JermainTaylor said:

everyone against your beloved group is a sectarian wild beast bombing everywhere which conversely justifies your sectarian views on these conflicts as they perfectly align your support with the shiites in these wars. How quaint!

Nope, no one said this, except you seem to be an apologist for ISIS and Al Nusra now, I never stated that all Syrian opposition are terrorists, but merely that they will not have a voice with these groups around.

You seem to just be an apologist for all these sunni extremist groups, and seem to make a moral equivalence between them and acts of violence or retaliation conducted by a few shias, which is in no way ideologically motivated.

I am done here anyway! You don't seem to want to do your research, you sound like a CNN propagandist who blames the Shias for everything, and do not care to look at historical context of the rise of takfiri fanaticism in Islamic history, you want to ignore the role the Brits and the Americans played in the role of the Wahhabi kingdom and you want to just blame the Shias for everything. Go ahead! I'm done with you! Don't know why I even bothered, you're a lost cause. I'd like to see you go live in Syria under Assad, and go live under Da'esh/Nusra and watch you then make the moral equivalence you're making here. One hangs onto power, one beheads people for being of another faith and has an ideological basis that promises him heaven for doing so. But that's fine let's just ignore that and blame the Shias for everything, because we don't want to sound like hypocrites, even when we point out facts, because those facts don't agree with what western media is feeding us. You'd make a great CNN anchor, please go work with them. 

 

Edited by Mohamed1993

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Some sources for you;

http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-VuasUUTQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTX4-wNPIps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l85EMYEgwbA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCl4J6JpCtE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz-s2AAh06I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-T_5UhQciE (9:51 to 10:41 in particular).

Of course, the CNN, NYT, BBC will not agree with any of this, but that must mean I am a conspiracy theorist who is imagining all this in my head despite all this evidence. I guess we make choices what evidence we do and don't believe, you made your choice and I will make mine and that's that. 

 

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10 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Saddam sucked, but given the situation of Iraq today, i don't know if i would prefer this to him. Ask Iraqi shias what they would prefer ISIS or Saddam.

Yes! You do in fact, do your research! You seem to swallow up everything you hear from Western Media, look at how the West has been planning regime change in Syria since 2006, look at what Clinton's emails say about Syria and destroying it for Israel. These are leaked American documents, not some fringe thought somewhere in the sky. Obviously you seem to be allergic to the conspiracy theorist label so you act like a member of the controlled opposition, when in reality, you won't choose to believe something even if it was right infront of you, because the western media says otherwise.

Yes, it highlights lack of public support obviously. If 2 million out of 24 million Syrians protested, should Assad have stepped down? There are videos of armed gangs at these protests please go look them up. In Yemen, they managed to topple the government, there's a difference if a government is toppled it no longer has the legitimacy to ask foreign powers to intervene on its behalf, because its no longer the government of the country.

There is a difference between someone who commits atrocities to hang onto power and someone who wants jihad globally yes! Absolutely! If you think otherwise, you're deluded.

Most are, some may not be but they don't have enough clout compared to ISIS and Al Nusra to gain power, so that's why ISIS and Al Nusra need to go, to give these people a chance. What part of this is difficult for you to understand?

We wouldn't help Palestine and Bosnia if we cared about sectarianism. Iran is in fact rather too pro-unity for a lot of Shias. Being anti-wahhabi is not being anti-sunni, if you're a wahhabi, I want nothing to do with you, you're pretty much defending people who praise Muawiyah at this point. 

This just highlights your ignorance and your complete lack of understanding as to what the ideology of Saudi Arabia is and how they have helped fuel extremism through their spreading of this heinous ideology. I suppose according to you, the Shias are responsible for Boko Haram and Al Shebab too. Or is it just awfully convenient to you that ISIS and Al Qaeda are because of Shias being oppressive, the rest are because of Saudi ideology? Come off it. From 1979 to 2003, the Shias were oppressed in Iraq, we never sunk to the levels of ISIS and Al Qaeda. Go look at Clinton's emails of how Saudi and Qatar are funding ISIS. Watch journalists report on Da'esh using the Turkish border to go into areas of northern Syria with the help of NGO trucks and read reports of these journalists being "accidentally killed" the day after. I suppose to you all of this is a conspiracy too. No only CNN and BBC tell the truth, like about the WMDS in Iraq, and about how toppling Ghadaffi in Libya was amazing. 

Nope, no one said this, except you seem to be an apologist for ISIS and Al Nusra now, I never stated that all Syrian opposition are terrorists, but merely that they will not have a voice with these groups around.

You seem to just be an apologist for all these sunni extremist groups, and seem to make a moral equivalence between them and acts of violence or retaliation conducted by a few shias, which is in no way ideologically motivated.

I am done here anyway! You don't seem to want to do your research, you sound like a CNN propagandist who blames the Shias for everything, and do not care to look at historical context of the rise of takfiri fanaticism in Islamic history, you want to ignore the role the Brits and the Americans played in the role of the Wahhabi kingdom and you want to just blame the Shias for everything. Go ahead! I'm done with you! Don't know why I even bothered, you're a lost cause. I'd like to see you go live in Syria under Assad, and go live under Da'esh/Nusra and watch you then make the moral equivalence you're making here. One hangs onto power, one beheads people for being of another faith and has an ideological basis that promises him heaven for doing so. But that's fine let's just ignore that and blame the Shias for everything, because we don't want to sound like hypocrites, even when we point out facts, because those facts don't agree with what western media is feeding us. You'd make a great CNN anchor, please go work with them. 

 

Saddam sucked but didn't create over 5 million refugees or MARTYRED nowhere near 350,000 maumin that was a Shiite imami leader or are you following a not imami leader??? Pure hypocrisy I thought ahle Bayt were leaders? More like CONFUSION, you follow killers and justify killing of kids astaghfirullah

 

fact check Syria is majority Sunni and the alawite Shiite shayateen leadership has always usurped the rights of Sunnis, Protests began in Syria as early as 26 January 2011, and erupted on 15 March 2011 with a "Day of Rage" protest generally considered to mark the start of a nationwide uprising.[1] The Syrian government’s reaction to the protests became violent on 16 March, and deadly on 18 March, when four unarmed protesters were killed in Daraa

but you will kill it off with a western conspiracy as you are telling lies above

Assad is a killer straight and simple

the whole of Syria wanted the killer out and only the alawite and the Shiite crescent cronies the leader being Iran sending in their special forces and hezbullah as well as the shabeehat of Assad wanted Assad to retain power, it's all there in history check it up don't follow state media like Iran or Russia or Assad, we all know the propaganda the Russian state spews and it's out in the open you can read these Russian troll on western media comments pages, you may believe them but to us Sunni truth seekers they are lying and killing and justifying it by blaming jihadis, wahabies, salafis or any one who wants freedom from the Assad regime, it's your made up conspiracy and it will end soon inshallah

i ain't even a wahabi I ain't salafi I hate these takfiri groups but you are spewing NONSENSE that you have no knowledge about, Iran is also doing its sectarian bit when ANERICA helped them when saddam got ousted, did you see how many sectarian flags with a face SUPPOSEDLY of Ali ra ASTAGHFIRULLAH flying in the faces of Muslims? What's that for? To show CNN?

you have a history of conspiracy my friend and it's still spewing today about early Islamic leadership, you have no proof or no starting point nor did the imams themselves acknowledge this imami theory it's not even in the Quran 

and you talk about conspiracy???

 

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10 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Some sources for you;

http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-VuasUUTQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTX4-wNPIps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l85EMYEgwbA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCl4J6JpCtE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz-s2AAh06I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-T_5UhQ

10 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Some sources for you;

http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-how-the-us-aggressively-pursued-regime-change-in-syria-igniting-a-bloodbath

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-VuasUUTQA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTX4-wNPIps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l85EMYEgwbA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCl4J6JpCtE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz-s2AAh06I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-T_5UhQciE (9:51 to 10:41 in particular).

Of course, the CNN, NYT, BBC will not agree with any of this, but that must mean I am a conspiracy theorist who is imagining all this in my head despite all this evidence. I guess we make choices what evidence we do and don't believe, you made your choice and I will make mine and that's that. 

 

ciE (9:51 to 10:41 in particular).

Of course, the CNN, NYT, BBC will not agree with any of this, but that must mean I am a conspiracy theorist who is imagining all this in my head despite all this evidence. I guess we make choices what evidence we do and don't believe, you made your choice and I will make mine and that's that. 

 

You call these facts?

first is Wikipedia and it's more about dealing with Iran, but obviously cos it's Shiite it's a conspiracy against Shiites 

the rest are YouTube videos but hey I can bring plenty YouTube vids myself that I THINK are genuine

 

YOU ARE A CONSPIRACY THEORIST.......cos you Shiites reckon the leadership after prophet saw was a conspiracy and yet even a millennia before CNN and the modern media outlets, you have been spewing the same to this day and YET NO PROOF

Thats the real challenge, no point chasing politics first sort your own conspiracy and find the truth forget the bombs and sarin gas

 

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20 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

Saddam sucked but didn't create over 5 million refugees or MARTYRED nowhere near 350,000 maumin that was a Shiite imami leader or are you following a not imami leader??? Pure hypocrisy I thought ahle Bayt were leaders? More like CONFUSION, you follow killers and justify killing of kids astaghfirullah

 

fact check Syria is majority Sunni and the alawite Shiite shayateen leadership has always usurped the rights of Sunnis, Protests began in Syria as early as 26 January 2011, and erupted on 15 March 2011 with a "Day of Rage" protest generally considered to mark the start of a nationwide uprising.[1] The Syrian government’s reaction to the protests became violent on 16 March, and deadly on 18 March, when four unarmed protesters were killed in Daraa

but you will kill it off with a western conspiracy as you are telling lies above

Assad is a killer straight and simple

the whole of Syria wanted the killer out and only the alawite and the Shiite crescent cronies the leader being Iran sending in their special forces and hezbullah as well as the shabeehat of Assad wanted Assad to retain power, it's all there in history check it up don't follow state media like Iran or Russia or Assad, we all know the propaganda the Russian state spews and it's out in the open you can read these Russian troll on western media comments pages, you may believe them but to us Sunni truth seekers they are lying and killing and justifying it by blaming jihadis, wahabies, salafis or any one who wants freedom from the Assad regime, it's your made up conspiracy and it will end soon inshallah

i ain't even a wahabi I ain't salafi I hate these takfiri groups but you are spewing NONSENSE that you have no knowledge about, Iran is also doing its sectarian bit when ANERICA helped them when saddam got ousted, did you see how many sectarian flags with a face SUPPOSEDLY of Ali ra ASTAGHFIRULLAH flying in the faces of Muslims? What's that for? To show CNN?

you have a history of conspiracy my friend and it's still spewing today about early Islamic leadership, you have no proof or no starting point nor did the imams themselves acknowledge this imami theory it's not even in the Quran 

and you talk about conspiracy???

 

Read the freaking links I posted, of course it's all a conspiracy according to you. 350,000 killed in Syria, how many militants? How many Syrian soldiers? How many Hezbollah fighters? They're all civilians? Where do most refugees seek refuge? In government held areas!

On the first day of protests 4 unarmed protests were killed and 7 security forces were killed. Of course you don't want to see any of the links I posted. And just because someone is an alawite doesn't mean the Sunnis in the country would prefer a Wahhabi leadership to him. 

As usual to you its all Russian propaganda, wikileaks dumps are Russian propaganda too, all of the evidence of armed elements in protests are Russian propaganda too. 

as for imami theory, it is in sahih Muslim btw, I leave behind Quran and Ahlulbayt, but you distorted it and made it Quran and Sunnah. Your so called first caliph didn't even have the decency to attend prophet's funeral, they rushed to Saqifa to choose the next caliph when only 80 or so people were present at Saqifa. So much for caring about the prophet that your so called caliphs had no decency to even attend prophet's funeral. And if you want to have a religious debate, go post it on another forum.

Edited by Mohamed1993

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5 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

You call these facts?

first is Wikipedia and it's more about dealing with Iran, but obviously cos it's Shiite it's a conspiracy against Shiites 

the rest are YouTube videos but hey I can bring plenty YouTube vids myself that I THINK are genuine

 

YOU ARE A CONSPIRACY THEORIST.......cos you Shiites reckon the leadership after prophet saw was a conspiracy and yet even a millennia before CNN and the modern media outlets, you have been spewing the same to this day and YET NO PROOF

Thats the real challenge, no point chasing politics first sort your own conspiracy and find the truth forget the bombs and sarin gas

 

Yep call it all a conspiracy! You have no arguments so just resort to name calling, typical Sunni tactics. You have your sources and I have mine, clearly your sources contradict the first thing about Sunni Islam. Only in Sunni Islam does rightly guided fight rightly guided like in Jamal. 

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25 minutes ago, Wisdom007 said:

MARTYRED nowhere near 350,000 maumin

Maumin hahahaha! JN and ISIS are Maumin LOL. 600,000 Iranians died in the war Saddam launched against Iran, in one operation itself against Kurds he gassed 100,000. Man really speaks volumes about your intelligence that you don't know this, then again what else can one expect from a Sunni, where rightly guided Ayesha fights rightly guided Ali (a.s.).

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13 hours ago, JermainTaylor said:

I read your argument from earlier. It is similar to an argument an acquaintance of mine has made. 

It is regarding why Assad would do such a thing when it apparently appears nonsensical for him to do so. It cites the UK ambassador and others inferring that a false flag operation is highly effective for Assads opponents etc.

Here is my problem with this argument, it is not proof of anything. It is merely conjecture and application of some logic by people who are on the sidelines of a conflict. I can apply the same approach & question many of Saddam Hussein's crimes. I wont because the reality on the ground, the evidence, the eye witness accounts prove otherwise. For me to counteract that with my mere logic appears arrogant. This is the same for Syria and Bashars regime.

 

 

I appreciate the response brother.

I do feel you go to one extreme in your response to what i, and many others who are well versed in geopolitics and not coloured with any religious biases or ties [which i am and you are] have mentioned.

We have to look at this from a clear lense, cond really consider the motive behind this. I feel you have cast aside a compelling counter argument to Assad having been the one to order a chemical weapons attack by making a comparison to Saddam, where you have not given any example to justify that, and again, the geopolitical contexts are entirely different. Furthermore, you have to consider the weight of what is being said here with respect to Assad and the paticular attack in and of itself.

If Bashar Al-Assad ordered a small-scale chemical weapons attack, i would like you to try and offer up some counter explanations:

1. Why would he order a chemical weapons attack knowing the media of the world is waiting for such a thing to happen which can be used to devastating effect against his regime, especially when two days layer, there was an important global meeting on Syria and resolving the conflict? To add to this, the US has made a major shift away from wanting Assad out. Assad and the people around him, including Russia knew full well what a chemical weapons attack would mean and the pressure it would put on Trump and his already under-pressure administration to reverse a significant policy shift on Syria. You can not simply ignore this brother, because it is a compelling case to make. Assad may be 'bad', but he certainly is not so mad as to do something so suicidal as this. It may be possible, but it seems very unlikely.

2. Assad was winning in Idlib, having taken Aleppo.

Addressing your argument about witnesses on the ground:

Remember brother, you are claiming it was absolutely Assad who used chemical weapons because of reports on the ground by people clearly inclined and biased against Assad. These are not just ordinary people, but among them are some very interesting groups.

1. Jabhat Al Nusra, a known alqaed affiliate, with absolutely strong bases in Idlib. They rebranded to 'jabhat fatah asham' but they are well known for commiting vile atrocities, using chemical weapons, and stock-piling them. This has been verified by many independent bodies, the UN, and especially when they were made to flee Aleppo, and stock-piles of chemical weapons were found behind. These are not angel 'moderate' freedom fighters, but among them, pretty evil, corrupt, and blood thirsty groups who may be inclined to do anything to shift the tide of the war they are losing.

2. Thus, they may have been the ones who launched the chemical weapons, or, it may be the case Assad's army hit a building which had stock-piles of chemical weapons, or [and unlikely] it never occured, but i don't take this explanation.

I have provided for you:

1. Evidence by an MIT researcher, from the US, an academic who is at one of the worlds leading universities and worked on the alleged attack in 2013, authoring a report stating that the US can not place blame anywhere as there is not sufficient evidence.

2. Convincing case as to why the isolated chemical weapons attack [allegedly] was absolutely suicidal and against Assad's own interests, something non-shia political analysts of many political stripes and backgrounds have themselves attested to.

3. An argument against what you deem as evidence.

 

In summary, i want an independent investigation into this, but truly,i think we ought to take a more balanced perspective on Syria, yourself included, and understand that the 'rebels' are comprised of former alqaeda affiliates, members that were once under Daesh, lawless jihadi's et al. Many may not be as bad as that, but we can not paint them as one monolithic freedom-fighting group and angels.

 

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1 hour ago, Wisdom007 said:

the whole of Syria wanted the killer out and only the alawite and the Shiite crescent cronies the leader being Iran sending in their special forces and hezbullah as well as the shabeehat of Assad wanted Assad to retain power, it's all there in history check it up don't follow state media like Iran or Russia or Assad, we all know the propaganda the Russian state spews and it's out in the open you can read these Russian troll on western media comments pages, you may believe them but to us Sunni truth seekers they are lying and killing and justifying it by blaming jihadis, wahabies, salafis or any one who wants freedom from the Assad regime, it's your made up conspiracy and it will end soon inshallah

you have a history of conspiracy my friend and it's still spewing today about early Islamic leadership, you have no proof or no starting point nor did the imams themselves acknowledge this imami theory it's not even in the Quran 

and you talk about conspiracy???

 

I think you are going to one extreme, and some shia's may also go to one extreme. On one hand, there are people who regard Assad as a saint, and any of the protests against him as all fabricated, claiming that the people love him, which i do not deem as true.

On the other hand, you have people claiming that everyone wanted Assad out, that there was no external influence whatsoever in what went on in Syria, and that all of the rebels are absolutely 'moderate' and everything we hear on CNN, Fox News, Al Jazeera is the truth and nothing but the truth.

You say you like evidence and not conspiracy theories, and i admire that, i really do. So let us engage in this discussion and consider the following points;

1. Assad was a dictator, no doubt, but there are many dictators in the region which the west , gulf-states, and israel did not want to try and help destabalize. While there indeed, were many legitimate protests against Assad, and he should have brought political reform quicker and allowed the Syrian people to determine the future of their own country, to discount the absolutely apparent evidence that in addition to this, there were still major attempts to destabalize Syria is not entirely honest.

Authentic and verified documents under the freedom of information act, were released, showing that the US had strong interests to help oust Assad, along with israel and gulf-states. Assad presents a thorn for the US, due to the alliance he has with Iran and Hezbollah. Take out Assad and you geographically break up Iran and Hezbollah. This decreases Hezbollah's attempt at tackling Israel, as well as support for the palestinian resistance. It weakens Iran, and so is in the interest of certain Gulf-States in the region.

This is not a 'conspiracy' theory, but geopolitical analysis. It is important to appreciate that in life, not every truth will be written in the clouds. Sometimes, in order to establish what is very likely if not apparent, requires us to use our aql - intellect, and develop a hollistic understanding of the situation as a whole.

 

Evidence of the above:

1. The 2012 document released under the 'Freedom of Information act' :http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/pgs-287-293-291-jw-v-dod-and-state-14-812-2/

Astoundingly, the newly declassified report states that for “THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY [WHO] SUPPORT THE [SYRIAN] OPPOSITION… THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.

2. From Wiki-leaks, declassifie: "UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05794498 Date: 11/30/2015 RELEASE IN FULL The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad." https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

3.  On Al Jazeera, and it's Micheal Flynn of all people [not a conspiracist shia rafidhi, as you may like to assume]

 

4. Even in 2005, plans were being made to try to cause rifts and destabalize Syria: [wiki-Leaks released]" "The following provides our summary of potential vulnerabilities and possible means to exploit them :https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html  [2005, by the United States]

 

I hope you will stay true and a man of your word and fairly examine and reflect upon the arguments i have given, as well as evidence to support them. I hope you also consider a more balanced approach. Perhaps there are those in the extreme, though not brother Mohammed , but others, who might make you react by going to the other extreme - this is not helpful for any side.

 

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1 hour ago, Wisdom007 said:

Assad is a killer straight and simple

 

 

While he has blood on his hands, could you also condemn the following groups/people?:

1. Jabhat Al Nusra, rebranded to Jabhat Fath Al Sham, a known alqaeda affiliate, used chemical weapons, butchered people and were once part of Daesh [AQI]. This is from Stanford University, and not a shia rafidhi website - i hope you do not consider this a conspiracy, as it has references and is a well known fact attested to by all sides:

"Before the conflict between Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) and Al-Nusra, the group received half of its operating budget from AQI. [26] Overtime, the group began to finance its arms and attacks by gaining control of oil fields that generated income. [27] [28] The group’s increased dependence on oil fields led to a financial crisis in mid-late 2014 when the Islamic State began capturing Al-Nusra’s oil fields."

"Initially, the group operated as an AQ affiliate. [15] In mid 2016, analysts have argued that the group’s decision to end its affiliation AQ and change its name from Jabhat al-Nusra to Jabhat Fatah al-Sham did not indicate an ideological split with AQ but was part of a strategy to increase the group’s appeal within Syria."

http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmilitants/cgi-bin/groups/view/493

 

w460.jpg?1368039600

 

@JermainTaylor

Just so everyone is clear, could we also see a condemnation from yourself against the alqaeda affiliate [despite the recent PR attempt] and former ISIS sub-group, Jabhat Al Nusra?

 

Edited by QuranandAhlulbayt

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1 hour ago, QuranandAhlulbayt said:

Just so everyone is clear, could we also see a condemnation from yourself against the alqaeda affiliate [despite the recent PR attempt] and former ISIS sub-group, Jabhat Al Nusra?

No man it's the Shia's fault they came into power, Assad, Iran and Hezbollah, nothing to do with Saudi Wahhabia and their client Qatar funding them. If Assad goes, the group will magically disappear too.

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On 4/13/2017 at 5:51 PM, JermainTaylor said:

After seeing the trend of unwaivering support of the Syrian Regime by shias, I have a simple question that I hope can be answered with sincerity. If you were to accept Bashar Al Assad had used chemical weapons on civilians, would you still support his regime winning the war in Syria due to the endgame politically? 

If Assad did do the chemical attack, I wouldn't support him. A right action is a right action and a wrong action is a wrong action. There can be no double-standards. 

Edited by humanbeing101

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4 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

No man it's the Shia's fault they came into power, Assad, Iran and Hezbollah, nothing to do with Saudi Wahhabia and their client Qatar funding them. If Assad goes, the group will magically disappear too.

I only see condemnations of Assad but none for Alqaeda affiliates, suicide bombers, those who have used chemical weapons, praised Osama bin Laden, fiananced alqaeda operations in Pakistan and other places et al.

I don't think these brothers support alqaeda, but while they accuse us of only seeing from one side, i really think their hatred of Assad has led them to going to another extreme entirely.

I think it is essential for brother jermaine to come out and condemn Al Nusra. But seeing as they are one of the key groups in Idlib right now, i don't see this happening. But i won't pre-judge, though what i feel may happen is based on countless debates with others.

 

Edited by QuranandAhlulbayt

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@JermainTaylor

He should be asked to step down and face court if he has indeed done this. However, I'd like to ask OP: 

  • What is the best alternative to Assad? That is, what do you expect the future government of Syria to be like without Assad?
  • How will minorities be treated?
  • What geographical and strategic treaties will Syria have with Israel?

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These sectarians are constantly blaming one side and if they were truthful they would blame the opposition side too for killings in Syria that they seems to support them because they are against Assad and Sunnis.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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