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Just now, kirtc said:

certainly if they were following the correct path then God would not have to send the prophet Jesus a.s

God (El) was Israels God exclusively, according the Bible from when God made a treaty with Abraham. Christians believe Jesus came to make Israels God the God for all humanity. Muslims believe God always was. Jews believe Jesus was an ordinary Jew that was crucified. 

The Bible do not view prophets like the Quran. Prophets are not infallible messengers of God. I believe the Quran say there will be no prophet after Muhammed. The Bible does not say there will be no new prophets. 

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1 minute ago, andres said:

God (El) was Israels God exclusively, according the Bible from when God made a treaty with Abraham. Christians believe Jesus came to make Israels God the God for all humanity. Muslims believe God always was. Jews believe Jesus was an ordinary Jew that was crucified. 

The Bible do not view prophets like the Quran. Prophets are not infallible messengers of God. I believe the Quran say there will be no prophet after Muhammed. The Bible does not say there will be no new prophets. 

ok, so you are saying what I am saying is only according to Islam, but would you agree that Jews who believed Christ became Christians, and Jews who denied Christ remained Jews? 

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3 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Jews still are chosen.

That concept is completely unacceptable to Islam.

A just God would not choose anyone except on grounds of spiritual merit. 

2 hours ago, Christianlady said:

I believe both Jews and Gentiles are chosen, ever since Yeshua (Jesus) brought the New Covenant. 

 
Peace and God bless you

God doesn't choose anyone except on grounds on individual merit.

No one.

No one at all  - - Jews, Christians, Muslims, other.

No one. 

That may be the Judeo-Christian belief but it is clearly illogical and meaningless.

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Just now, kirtc said:

ok, so you are saying what I am saying is only according to Islam, but would you agree that Jews who believed Christ became Christians, and Jews who denied Christ remained Jews? 

Yes.

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Just now, baqar said:

A just God would not choose anyone except on grounds of spiritual merit. 

God doesn't choose anyone except on grounds on individual merit.

No one.

No one at all  - - Jews, Christians, Muslims, other.

No one. 

That may be the Judeo-Christian belief but it is clearly illogical and meaningless.

I agree with you on this. 

But 2.000 years ago, the only people that worshipped the God that Christians and Muslims worship today, were the Jews. So in those days, Jews were Gods chosen people. Semitic tribes had other Gods, in my part of the world we worshipped Thor, Wotan and many others. 

 

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17 minutes ago, andres said:

Yes.

Well my point is, at least from a Christian point of view, the ones who stayed Jews denied Christ. So being a chrisitan-zionist in my opinion is an oxymoron... 

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Just now, kirtc said:

Well my point is, at least from a Christian point of view, the ones who stayed Jews denied Christ. So being a chrisitan-zionist in my opinion is an oxymoron... 

Sionist movement are not that old and Christians differ. Some believe that Jesus will not return as long as the entire Israel as promised to Abraham is not reestablished. (Seemingly the horrors that will be necessary to obtain this do not matter much). Others do not believe that Jews after 2.000 years have any historical or religious right. And then you find all sorts of position in between those.

1.000 years ago, the Church initiated crucades to conquer the holy land from the infidels (=muslims). Jews were also infidels, so they had no support from Christianity back then.

 

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10 minutes ago, andres said:

the infidels (=Muslims). Jews were also infidels

So except for Christians, everyone is an infidel?

By what definition are Jews and Muslims infidels?

Jews and Muslims believe in one God and there are a lot of good teachings in both religions.

Don't you think? 

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Just now, baqar said:

So except for Christians, everyone is an infidel?

By what definition are Jews and Muslims infidels?

Jews and Muslims believe in one God and there are a lot of good teachings in both religions.

Don't you think? 

I imagine that the crucaders used the word infidels about their enemy. Maybe it is not the apropriate word today. Truly we believe in the same God, but we belong to different religions. There are many good teacings in our religions, but also som that are outdated. 

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9 hours ago, kirtc said:

Well my point is, at least from a Christian point of view, the ones who stayed Jews denied Christ. So being a chrisitan-zionist in my opinion is an oxymoron... 

It is, but there is another layer to this which you may or may not be aware of.

The Jewish Zionist movement, started by Herzel et al in the 19th century, a secular dude of Jewish ethnicity, did a very brilliant political / tactical move back in the 1950 and 60's in the US. They co-opted some of the more famous Evangelical Christian pastors and preachers into supporting the 'State of Israel' by convincing them that the 'Israel' talked about in the Bible which Christians must support at the end of times is the modern 'State of Israel', therefore they are an absolute obligation to support this State.

This argument, that the modern entity which calls itself 'The State of Israel' is equivalent to the Biblical Israel, i.e. the Kingdom of David(a.s) and Solomon(a.s) is ludicrous on the face of it. If you start to do a compare and contrast, the argument falls apart rather quickly. The problem is most Christians have already thrown logic and reason out the window when it comes to matters of religion. So talking to them about this subject is usually not very fruitful, although I commend you for trying. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

This argument, that the modern entity which calls itself 'The State of Israel' is equivalent to the Biblical Israel, i.e. the Kingdom of David(a.s) and Solomon(a.s) is ludicrous on the face of it. If you start to do a compare and contrast, the argument falls apart rather quickly. The problem is most Christians have already thrown logic and reason out the window when it comes to matters of religion. So talking to them about this subject is usually not very fruitful, although I commend you for trying. 

Thanks. It is futile. 

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Just now, Abu Hadi said:

It is, but there is another layer to this which you may or may not be aware of.

The Jewish Zionist movement, started by Herzel et al in the 19th century, a secular dude of Jewish ethnicity, did a very brilliant political / tactical move back in the 1950 and 60's in the US. They co-opted some of the more famous Evangelical Christian pastors and preachers into supporting the 'State of Israel' by convincing them that the 'Israel' talked about in the Bible which Christians must support at the end of times is the modern 'State of Israel', therefore they are an absolute obligation to support this State.

This argument, that the modern entity which calls itself 'The State of Israel' is equivalent to the Biblical Israel, i.e. the Kingdom of David(a.s) and Solomon(a.s) is ludicrous on the face of it. If you start to do a compare and contrast, the argument falls apart rather quickly. The problem is most Christians have already thrown logic and reason out the window when it comes to matters of religion. So talking to them about this subject is usually not very fruitful, although I commend you for trying. 

 

My impression is also that evengelical christianity, especially in USA are behind the uncritical support of Israel. Also in my view they throw all logic out the window. But when somebody believes that the Bible (or the Quran) is an infallible book and that this somebody also knows that God has helped to show how to make the correct interpretation, logic is not necessary. This as we have seen, can create a dangerous situation.

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On 4/11/2017 at 4:45 PM, kirtc said:

 

kind of contradicting is it not?

Salam Kirtc,

If you read more into the verse, you will see that God taught the Apostle Peter (who is Jewish) a lesson:

While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. ” - Acts 10:27-28 (NIV)

Peace and God bless you

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On 4/11/2017 at 7:04 PM, baqar said:

That concept is completely unacceptable to Islam.

Salam Baqar,

I don't follow Muhammad, obviously.

Quote

A just God would not choose anyone except on grounds of spiritual merit. 

God doesn't choose anyone except on grounds on individual merit.

No one.

No one at all  - - Jews, Christians, Muslims, other.

No one. 

Well, Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Christ) shows that God loves sinners, people without merit too, and wants them to repent and grow "merit" with the help of God's Holy Spirit.

The Pharisees however thought that sinners (including prostitutes and tax collectors" didn't have enough merit, and looked down on Yeshua (Jesus) for associating with sinners:

 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” - Matthew 9:10-13 (NIV)

However, Yeshua (Jesus) came to save the lost:

Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost. - Luke 19:9-10 (NIV)
 

Quote

That may be the Judeo-Christian belief but it is clearly illogical and meaningless.

 

It does not require spiritual maturity to insult beliefs of another faith.

Some Atheists, by the way, view all beliefs in God (including Islam) to be what you think Christianity is. Does that mean they are correct?

Peace and God bless you

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Salam,

These are interesting definitions concerning who is Jewish:

The Chabad says,

Judaism is passed on exclusively through the biological female line. This means that if you trace your Jewish lineage through your mother’s mother’s mother’s mother (etc.), you are Jewish, even if all other branches of your family are not Jewish...”

It’s not that the Jewish community is hostile toward people who’ve dropped their tribal affiliation for a generation or two. It’s just that they want to make sure that you are indeed a member of the tribe before establishing you as such.

Chances are that you’ll need to dig for old documents (or a Jewish person who can actually testify about your ancestor’s Jewishness).

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3408865/jewish/How-Do-I-Know-If-I-Am-a-Jew.htm

Judaism 101 says, (I boldened some and separated paragraphs.)

The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews

Another name used for the people is Children of Israel or Israelites, which refers to the fact that the people are descendants of Jacob, who was also called Israel.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him…

 A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do.

A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism,

and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship. See What Is Judaism?

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

According to http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Jew, a Jew has different definitions, including the following:

1. An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture.

2. A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism.

3. A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Judah.

As Judaism101 also states,

“However, many people who call themselves Jews do not believe in that religion at all! More than half of all Jews in Israel today call themselves "secular," and don't believe in G-d or any of the religious beliefs of Judaism.

Half of all Jews in the United States don't belong to any synagogue. They may practice some of the rituals of Judaism and celebrate some of the holidays, but they don't think of these actions as religious activities.

The most traditional Jews and the most liberal Jews and everyone in between would agree that these secular people are still Jews, regardless of their disbelief. See Who is a Jew? Clearly, then, there is more to being Jewish than just a religion..."

Most secular American Jews think of their Jewishness as a matter of culture or ethnicity.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

If Muhammad had named his religion "Arabism" instead of Islam, it would be as complicated as Judaism is. Why? Because not all Arabs are Muslims. There are Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs, Atheist Arabs, and so forth.

Some Jewish people reject belief in G-d, though hopefully they accept Him again into their lives.

Jewish Atheists provide the proof that being a Jew is not just a religion. Thus, being Jewish has different meanings, one of them meaning a family, as Judaism101 explains:

Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz has suggested a better analogy for the Jewish people: We are a family. See the third essay in his 2005 book, We Jews: Who Are We and What Should We Do. But though this is a relatively new book, it is certainly not a new concept: throughout the Bible and Jewish literature, the Jewish people are referred to as "the Children of Israel," a reference to the fact that we are all the physical or spiritual descendants of the Patriarch Jacob, who was later called Israel. In other words, we are part of his extended family.

http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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On 4/11/2017 at 1:59 PM, Christianlady said:

Out of curiosity, do some Muslims on Shiachat wish their Jewish friends a happy Passover?

Salam,

Nobody has answered my questions in the original post. 

Quote

Anways, are there any Muslims on Shiachat who have attended a Passover meal with his or her Jewish friends? What did you think?

It would be awesome to get replies from Muslims on Shiachat concerning if they wish their Jewish friends a happy Passover and if they have ever attended a Passover meal.

Thanks! :)

Peace and God bless you

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