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Salam,

Since yesterday evening, many Jewish people around the world of different beliefs (from Orthodox to Reform, from Messianic to Agnostic, and even some Atheist Jewish people to be with their Theist family/friends) are commemorating Passover.

Out of curiosity, do some Muslims on Shiachat wish their Jewish friends a happy Passover?

This is a cool article!

On Passover, when everyone is busy trying to keep their homes (and themselves) leaven-free and kosher for Passover, we wish each other a “kosher and joyous Passover.”

In Hebrew it’s “chag Pesach kasher vesame’ach (pronounced: CHAG PEH-sach kah-SHER ve-sah-MAY-ach).

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/3584633/jewish/How-to-Wish-Happy-Passover-in-Hebrew-and-Yiddish.htm

While I'm not Jewish, my hubby and I are excited to go to a Messianic Jewish Seder (Passover meal) this evening if God wills! This isn't the first one we've attended; it's becoming a tradition for us. :)

I didn't know till just this year however that there were qualifications for Non-Jews who want to partake of the Passover meal, but we do meet the qualifications (my hubby was circumcised as a baby).

And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land; but no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.'

- Exodus 12:48-49  http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0212.htm

A Messianic Jewish Seder is different from others because Messianic Jews talk about how Yeshua (Jesus) fulfills the Passover via his blood that was shed once for all. After all, people (both Jews and Gentiles) who follow Jesus believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29)!!!

That's one reason why Messianic Jews believe that animal sacrifices are no longer necessary, because Yeshua HaMashiach fulfilled the harsh death penalties for both animals and people when he died once for all on the cross. Through his precious blood that he shed once for all, he brought the New Covenant which Prophet Jeremiah foretold:

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah;  - Jeremiah 31:30 http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1131.htm

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. - Luke 22:20 (NIV)

Some people think that the "Lord's Supper" was when Yeshua (Jesus) celebrated his disciples. Personally, I agree with this, because of the following verses:

Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed.

Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.”

“Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked.

10 He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11 and say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 12 He will show you a large room upstairs, all furnished. Make preparations there.”

13 They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.

14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”

17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a]

Luke 22:7-20

In some Passover seders, the leader of the Seder table passes around the unleavened bread and a cup of wine, though usually nowadays every adult has their own cup, so they don't need to drink out of another's cup.

Anways, are there any Muslims on Shiachat who have attended a Passover meal with his or her Jewish friends? What did you think?

I personally think that it's so amazing and cool that for more the 3,000 years, Jewish people around the world have commemorated how G-d rescued them from slavery in Egypt!!!

This is a cool video about the Passover Seder:

 

This is one of my favorite Passover songs:

 

Peace and God bless you

 

 

Edited by Christianlady

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I was meaning to ask you something... and this is a perfect chance.. 

I wanna ask you a series of questions.. I hope you dont mind.. remember im the less diplomatic of SCers... I speak my mind.. 

My first question is... do you agree that God would send a prophet to a people when they needed him most... when corruption, greed and ignorance has taken over the land?

Edited by kirtc

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2 minutes ago, kirtc said:

I was meaning to ask you something... and this is a perfect chance.. 

Salam Kirtc,

Sure. ;)

Quote

I wanna ask you a series of questions.. I hope you dont mind.. remember im the less diplomatic of SCers... I speak my mind.. 

I have no problem with questions that don't question the intelligence of either you, me, or anyone else.

 

Quote

My first question is... do you agree that God would send a prophet to a people when they needed him most... when corruption, greed and ignorance has taken over the land?

That's a good question.

I do not believe that God sends prophets to every people when they need Him most. I do believe that God sends people to tell other people about Him.

In my belief, a prophet is a man who prophesies.

Not every person who tells about God is a prophet or prophetess. I'm not a prophetess, for example, but I tell people about God.

I don't believe that my forefathers in the British Isles, for example, were given a prophet before Jesus Christ came, even if "corruption, greed and ignorance" had taken over the land.  They were pagans. Definitely, people like Saint Patrick helped lead the Irish to Jesus Christ, but that was after Jesus came, not before.

My belief is very children-of-Israel oriented because Yeshua HaMashiach is the King of the Jews:

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magfrom the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” - Matthew 2:1-2 (NIV)

His Kingdom however extends to the Gentiles as well:

Yea, He saith: 'It is too light a thing that thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the offspring of Israel;

I will also give thee for a light of the nations, that My salvation may be unto the end of the earth.'

Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, his Holy One, to him who is despised of men, to him who is abhorred of nations, to a servant of rulers: kings shall see and arise, princes, and they shall prostrate themselves; because of the LORD that is faithful, even the Holy One of Israel, who hath chosen thee.

- Isaiah 49:6-7  http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1049.htm

Peace and God bless you

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4 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

The following is using cartoon form to tell about how God used Moses to rescue the children of Israel from slavery in Egypt. 

Peace and God bless you

So, is it a yes or no? Do you as a Christian believe that God has sent a prophet to people who are in power, especially His chosen people in a time of great power, ignorance, corruption and greed? Sorry for being redundant, just phrasing the question for you.

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6 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

So, is it a yes or no? Do you as a Christian believe that God has sent a prophet to people who are in power, especially His chosen people in a time of great power, ignorance, corruption and greed? Sorry for being redundant, just phrasing the question for you.

Salam Gaius i. Caesar,

Ah thanks. I didn't understand his question very well.

Yes, I believe God sent prophets to people in power, "especially His chosen people in a time of great power, ignorance, corruption, and greed."

By the way, Jesus Christ did not come during the height of Israel's power. He came when they were under the oppression of the Roman Empire.

And, many of the prophets, such as Daniel hundreds of years before Jesus Christ, came at a time when Israel and Judea were corrupt and was being punished for her sins.  Prophet Daniel was forced to serve the Babylonian King who plundered the Temple.

Peace and God bless you

 

Edited by Christianlady

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7 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

Yea, He saith: 'It is too light a thing that thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the offspring of Israel;

I will also give thee for a light of the nations, that My salvation may be unto the end of the earth

restore them from what?

salvation from what?

was the land of israel not corrupt?

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17 minutes ago, kirtc said:

so im guessing your answer is yes... so then my second question is why would God send Jesus a.s to Israel where jews were in power?

The Jews were not technically in power at the time, because the Roman Empire was oppressing them.

Now, some Jewish people hoped that Yeshua (Jesus) would raise up a Jewish army and defeat the Romans.

Now, about why God sent Jesus at this specific time, there's a cool prophecy that God gave to the Prophet Daniel about when the Anointed One would come.

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This is a prophecy that explains why God sent Jesus (the Anointed One) when He did:

Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to forgive iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal vision and prophet, and to anoint the most holy place. 

Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto one anointed, a prince, shall be seven weeks; and for threescore and two weeks, it shall be built again, with broad place and moat, but in troublous times.

And after the threescore and two weeks shall an anointed one be cut off, and be no more; and the people of a prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; but his end shall be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

- Daniel 9:24-26  http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3409.htm

Many Jewish people who reject Yeshua (Jesus) as the Mashiach (Messiah/Christ) have valid reasons why they do not believe that this is about Yeshua. However, some Messianic Jews do believe that this prophecy is fulfilled by Yeshua (Jesus) and that him being "cut off" is when he was killed. However, they believe the Messianic prophecies do not end there.

 

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1 minute ago, Christianlady said:

, many of the prophets, such as Daniel hundreds of years before Jesus Christ, came at a time when Israel and Judea were corrupt and was being punished for her sins.  ProphetDaniel was forced to serve the Babylonian King who plundered the Temple.

my point is this.. Jews were the chosen ones, they were the promised ones and they were the righteous believers of their time... but that was no longer the case with time.. they slowly averted from God's path.. im not going to tell you what I read the rabbis were doing, because you wont believe me. But there was great corruption in the jewish religion when Jesus was born..  otherwise there would no reason for him. 

 the people had a choice.. to stay jewish or to follow Jesus amd become christians... the people who didnt believe Jesus was a prophet were in fact the jews who said that he was not the messaih.. and that is why they remained jewish.. they did so because Jesus threatened their power.. they were in control and didnt want to change that.

Jews who followed and believed in Christ are no longer jewish, they are now chrisitians. So the ones that called themselves jews are rejectors of Christ...  

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8 minutes ago, kirtc said:

restore them from what?

restore them to being a nation again, from being scattered to all over the earth

Quote

salvation from what?

Sin

Quote


was the land of israel not corrupt?

 

Yes. However, many times that God sent prophets to the Children of Israel, the land of Israel was corrupt. Prophet Jeremiah for example mourned for his people the Jews, and warned them to repent.

This for example is one thing the LORD told Jeremiah to tell his people:

For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah. 

And I will utter My judgments against them touching all their wickedness; in that they have forsaken me, and have offered unto other gods, and worshipped the work of their own hands.

- Jeremiah 1:15-16

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1101.htm

The Tanakh includes many prophecies against the Children of Israel for their sins.

 

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5 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

My belief is very children-of-Israel oriented because Yeshua HaMashiach is the King of the Jews:

I know and I try to respect that although I don't understand why though, what's wrong with the Gentiles? Or the rest of the world in general?

9 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

I do believe that God sends people to tell other people about Him.

Sounds kind of like sending missionaries, but where or from whom have these people learned about God?

15 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

In my belief, a prophet is a man who prophesies.

Could you explain what you mean by your belief better? I mean the word prophesy come from the word prophet. And the Jews and Muslims also accept this interpretation as well.

Off topic but are you by any chance of a member of the Religious Society of Friends? Probably not but your pacifism got me thinking and seemed like a good time to ask.

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1 minute ago, kirtc said:

my point is this.. Jews were the chosen ones, they were the promised ones and they were the righteous believers of their time...

Jews still are chosen.

Quote

but that was no longer the case with time..

The difference is that Gentiles can follow God too, whereas before, it was mostly Israel and/or Judea who followed the One and Only God.

Now, people from both groups, Jews and Gentiles, can choose to accept or reject God.

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they slowly averted from God's path..

There are still many Jewish people who follow God's path in the way they think God wants them to do so. While some Jewish people have become Agnostic or Atheist, most Jewish people do still believe in God.

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im not going to tell you what I read the rabbis were doing, because you wont believe me.

Rabbis are diverse, same as Muslim leaders are diverse. There are some horrible things that some Muslim leaders do too. Does that mean that there are no Muslims who sincerely follow God how they believe He leads them?

Quote

But there was great corruption in the jewish religion when Jesus was born..  otherwise there would no reason for him. 

Actually, there is a very important reason even if there wasn't great corruption. God promised King David this:

And it shall come to pass, when thy days are fulfilled that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will set up thy seed after thee, who shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom

He shall build Me a house, and I will establish his throne for ever.

I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son; and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee;

but I will settle him in My house and in My kingdom for ever; and his throne shall be established for ever.'

According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

- 1 Chronicles 17:11-15

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt25a17.htm

This prophecy was first fulfilled in Solomon. Jesus Christ however is the eternal fulfillment. After all, Solomon did not reign forever, but Yeshua does. That's why Yeshua will return: because he reigns for for ever.
 

While many Jewish people reject Yeshua (Jesus) as the Mashiach (Christ) and have valid reasons for doing so, He is the king on the throne of King David for forever.

It's very possible that if Israel had not been in a state of corruption, more Children of Israel would have recognized him as their king. As it is, only a small minority of Jewish people accepted Yeshua (Jesus) as their King then. Recently, more and more Jewish people however are accepted Yeshua as their Anointed One, which is amazing. A miracle.

 

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@Christianlady

I don't know why I bothered. 
I wish you guidance... 
And you should not call yourself gentile... all men are equal. I am sorry but the followers of Israel today are the followers of the Anti-christ. Pray to God you are not of them.

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15 minutes ago, kirtc said:

the people had a choice.. to stay jewish or to follow Jesus amd become christians...

There wasn't this either or choice in the beginning. The Jewish people who followed Yeshua (Jesus) did not negate being Jewish.

Peter for example explains to a Gentile why he has never been in a Gentile home before, until God showed him that Gentiles can follow Jesus too:

While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile.

But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?” -

 - Acts 10:27-29 (NIV)

The Jewish people who accepted Yeshua as their Anointed One weren't even called Christians until later on, till both Jews and Gentiles who believed in Jesus were called Christians in Antioch: 

Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. - Acts 10:25-26 (NIV)

The Jewish believers were based first in Jerusalem, and they weren't called Christians in Jerusalem until later, after believers in Jesus were called Christians in Antioch.

Rather, they were called "circumcised believers"...

The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles - Acts 10:45 (NIV)

 

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Jews who followed and believed in Christ are no longer jewish, they are now chrisitians. So the ones that called themselves jews are rejectors of Christ...

Jesus' mother Mary is Jewish. His apostles were all Jewish. Accepting Yeshua (Jesus) as the Mashiach (Anointed One) didn't take away their Jewishness.

Messianic Jewish people argue that they actually are more "complete" Jews because they believe in the Jewish Messiah, regardless of what Jewish people who reject Yeshua say:

"Many Messianic Jews refer to themselves as “completed Jews,” since they believe that their faith in the God of Israel has been “completed” or fulfilled in Yeshua.

In reality, Messianic Judaism began 2,000 years ago. Yeshua Himself was an observant Jew, most of the Apostles and writers of the New Covenant were Jewish, and the vast majority of the early believers in Yeshua were also Jewish (see Acts chapter 2)."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Messianic-Judaism.html

This is a cool video about if Messianic Jews are Jews.

Sure many Jewish people who reject Yeshua as the Mashiach claim that Jews who accept Yeshua haMashiach are "not Jews" though I don't personally believe that claim. (I don't accept the claim of some Sunni Muslims that Shias are "not true Muslims" either.)  I know without a doubt that my Jewish friends who have accepted Yeshua as the Mashiach are still Jewish. :) 

Peace and God bless you

 

Edited by Christianlady

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I couldnt watch 3 seconds of this kid, hes annoying.... 

Anyway I see where the root of the issue is... you believe jews are not defined by their religion but by their ethnicity as you previously mentioned in another thread. This means if I were to convert to Judaism I would still not be of the chosen right? Because you previously stated that if a Jew became Christian he is still a Jew.

Edited by kirtc

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@Christianlady

so that means you consider the chosen ones to be the real jews... and the rest of humanity gentiles

22 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile.

This is where we fundamentally disagree. In Islam all men are equal... there is no such thing as gentile. 

Edited by kirtc

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42 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I know and I try to respect that although I don't understand why though, what's wrong with the Gentiles? Or the rest of the world in general?

It sounds like most Gentiles in the time of Yeshua worshiped false gods, sacrificed animals to false gods, committed sexual immorality, ate unclean food and so forth. 

Quote

Sounds kind of like sending missionaries, but where or from whom have these people learned about God?

From the apostles and disciples who walked and talked with Yeshua (Jesus) Jesus clearly told them:

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. - Acts 1:8

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Could you explain what you mean by your belief better? I mean the word prophesy come from the word prophet. And the Jews and Muslims also accept this interpretation as well.

There are prophets after Yeshua (Jesus) came, but we have to be aware that there are both true prophets and false prophets. Jesus warned us of false prophets (Matthew 7, Matthew 24).

Quote

Off topic but are you by any chance of a member of the Religious Society of Friends? Probably not but your pacifism got me thinking and seemed like a good time to ask.

No, but I think that's the nicest thing you've ever written me!!! :) They are Quakers, correct? I very much admire how Quakers are pacifist and also all they did to fight against slavery in the USA.

Peace and God bless you

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13 minutes ago, kirtc said:

@Christianlady

so that means you consider the chosen ones to be the real jews... and the rest of humanity gentiles

I believe both Jews and Gentiles are chosen, ever since Yeshua (Jesus) brought the New Covenant. 

Quote

This is where we fundamentally disagree. In Islam all men are equal...

Paul (a Jew who stood up numerous times for Gentiles) wrote:

 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

- Romans 3:22-23 (NIV)

Quote

there is no such thing as gentile. 

What is your definition of Gentile?

Thanks. 

This is an English definition of Gentile:

1. A person who is not Jewish.
 
Anyways, I have to go now, cause my hubby will be back soon and I need to get ready.
 
Here is another cool song about the Passover:
 
Peace and God bless you

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2 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

 

38 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile

kind of contradicting is it not?

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30 minutes ago, kirtc said:

@Christianlady

so that means you consider the chosen ones to be the real jews... and the rest of humanity gentiles

This is where we fundamentally disagree. In Islam all men are equal... there is no such thing as gentile. 

^ Exactly, Islam is for all people, there is no notion of a chosen race. I never could be at peace with the idea of a chosen race, it sickened and still sickens me to see Christian pastors justify it. No matter how they justify it, they are not Jews and don't understand the context of the Jewish chosen race.

Then again, they say when Jesus died, it rendered the chosen race idea void, convenient isn't it? Especially since Jesus brought a new covenant of Gentile and Jews being equal and co-existing.

But hey, let's support Israel and ignore those pesky verses, Jesus was Jewish and the sheep will follow us shepherds.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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