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Muhammeds (a.s) extraordinary reason

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

@baqar Brother, @andres does not share common belief with us, and secondly, he is not interested to learn about Islam because everything that comes to him, he rejects it. So, i think, it is useless to argue here. 

Oh yes, I am interested in learning about Islam, and I think I have done so. This does not mean I will believe that the Quran is the infallible word of God. Actually I think such belief, also concerning the Bible is not good for the developement of a society. 

Are you interested in learning about Christianity?

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:salam:

Brothers and Sisters in Islam.. Why do we as Muslims need to care about what Christians say about our beloved Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)? Do protestant Christians and Catholics provide us with rizq (livelihood)? So why should we care? We are not accountable to them but to Allaah azzawajal. Furthermore, we shouldn't mock or revile their god (3 in 1), since they may in ignorace insult Allaah azzawajal nor should we insult their Apostle Paul. We love our religion and find tranquility in it. Therefore we should leave that which doesn't concern us, follow the great example of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who was also sent to perfect good character.

hadith12arabic.gif?w=450

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Part of the perfection of a person’s Islam is his leaving that which is of no concern to him” (40 Hadith Nawawi 12)

Insulting the Prophet (s.a.w.) is not something that began in this century, the protestants, catholics, their church fathers and pastors has been doing that since the day the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) got his first revelation and started to preach tawheed (monotheism), opposed shirk (idolatry/polytheism) and preached that Jesus (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was only a Messenger and Prophet of God, and nothing more or less. They made ridiculous claims, had no knowledge of the religion of Islam and frequently insulted the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) according to their desires (ahwa) and not with their intellectual arguments. I live in Sweden and we have certain someone who doesn't know the Arabic language and spreading nonsense about Islam and claims to be an ex-Muslim with immense knowledge. She sees it perfectly fine to use her so-called of freedom of speech to spread anti-Muslim rhetoric in Sweden.

“There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist…. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration.”

-St. John Damascene (d. 749), Syrian Arab Catholic monk and scholar. Quoted from his book On Heresies under the section On the Heresy of the Ishmaelites (in The Fathers of the Church. Vol. 37. Translated by the Catholic University of America. CUA Press. 1958. Pages 153-160.)

“On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, the point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants.”

-St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274), Theologian and Doctor of the Church. Quoted from his De Rationibus Fidei Contra Saracenos, Graecos, et Armenos and translated from Fr. Damian Fehlner’s Aquinas on Reasons for the Faith: Against the Muslims, Greeks, and Armenians (Franciscans of the Immaculate. 2002.).

So....

hadith12arabic.gif?w=450

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Part of the perfection of a person’s Islam is his leaving that which is of no concern to him” (40 Hadith Nawawi 12)

Allaah azzawajal is sufficient for us, he has praised his Messenger and Servant,

Peace and blessing of Allaah be upon our beloved Prophet!

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1 hour ago, andres said:

Oh yes, I am interested in learning about Islam, and I think I have done so. This does not mean I will believe that the Quran is the infallible word of God. Actually I think such belief, also concerning the Bible is not good for the developement of a society. 

Are you interested in learning about Christianity?

Keep on thinking bro, but about Quran what you understood is just misunderstandings. 

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54 minutes ago, Ijaz Ahmad Al-Swedi said:

 I live in Sweden and we have certain someone who doesn't know the Arabic language and spreading nonsense about Islam and claims to be an ex-Muslim with immense knowledge. She sees it perfectly fine to use her so-called of freedom of speech to spread anti-Muslim rhetoric in Sweden.

What is her name? What is she doing?

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50 minutes ago, andres said:

Oh yes, I am interested in learning about Islam, and I think I have done so. This does not mean I will believe that the Quran is the infallible word of God. Actually I think such belief, also concerning the Bible is not good for the developement of a society. 

Are you interested in learning about Christianity?

Development of society (Perhaps you can elaborate)? You mean open homosexuality? Drinking, music, pornography, strip-clubs, zina, insulting others (so-called freedom of speech or maybe we should rename it to freedom to insult), riba which creates imbalance in the society (how much is the debt of America? debt per person?), warmongering in other nations (foreign policy), public nudity, racism, homelessness and so forth. 

In what way do your developed society protect the wealth of people? their honor? A woman whose raped, goes to work and pay her taxes. An amount from her taxes goes to prisoners who might be rapists, so in order to protect their rights the government provide food and clothing to them by using the taxpayers money... Ah, perfect justice, isn't it? This is a new form of barbarity and enslavement that people are really blind to see... You either submit to your society or submit to your God who created you, there is no third alternative to take...

“A Woman was raped during the time of Messenger of Allaah (s.a.w.)  He waived the legal punishment for her and carried it out on the one who had attacked her (i.e., he was put to death), but he (the narrator) did not say that he rules that she should be given a bridal-money.” (Sahih Ibn Majah 2/333 - with an acceptable isnad and in takhrij mishkat al-masabih 3/421 - with an acceptable isnad, graded by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (rahimahullaah))

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment (put to death) if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. (Al-Istidhkaar, 7/146)

I do wonder what country is next on United States of America's list, which is considered as a developed society, using democracy to wage war in other countries and creating chaos. Democracy is just based on desires... for the rich!

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Hi Al-Swedi.

You did not answer my question who the Swedish woman you were talking about was. Can you tell her name?

Why do you live in a country like Sweden, where homosexuals are not persecuted and there is freedom of speach and pornography? Is there no country more suitable for a person like you?

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4 minutes ago, andres said:

Hi Al-Swedi.

You did not answer my question who the Swedish woman you were talking about was. Can you tell her name?

Why do you live in a country like Sweden, where homosexuals are not persecuted and there is freedom of speach and pornography? Is there no country more suitable for a person like you?

freedom of speech lolz, what kind of freedom is this ? Freedom for every evil to prevail. good joke. :hahaha:

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8 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

freedom of speech lolz, what kind of freedom is this ? Freedom for every evil to prevail. good joke. :hahaha:

Do you not know the name of the swedish woman you accused of speaking bad about Islam? 

Sure you live in Sweden? If you do, Why dont you move to a Muslim nation? 

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4 minutes ago, andres said:

Do you not know the name of the swedish woman you accused of speaking bad about Islam? 

Sure you live in Sweden? If you do, Why dont you move to a Muslim nation? 

If I lived in Sweden, why should I move away, this is land made by God and I will move wherever I want. But I will also speak against evil wherever it be. 

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The Swedish women who spoke against Prophet Muhammad PBUHHP should focus on her own faults first before speaking of one about whom she did not investigated justifiably and just said the propaganda which she heard. She and people like her are idiots. 

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8 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

The Swedish women who spoke against Prophet Muhammad PBUHHP should focus on her own faults first before speaking of one about whom she did not investigated justifiably and just said the propaganda which she heard. She and people like her are idiots. 

And for the 4th time I ask you; what is her name, and what does she do?

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Just now, andres said:

And for the 4th time I ask you; what is her name, and what does she do?

Did I say about Swedish women ? When did I, you just talked about Swedish women for the first time. May be someone other have talked about her and you misunderstood that it was I. :(

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19 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Did I say about Swedish women ? When did I, you just talked about Swedish women for the first time. May be someone other have talked about her and you misunderstood that it was I. :(

I confused you with Al-Swedi. You took over his tread. Sorry. I had some doubts he really lives in Sweden

 

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7 hours ago, andres said:

but that does not make all religions the same. I do not think we disagree on this.

Well, we do not quite agree either.

Firstly, religions are not the same for two reasons. They tend to change and evolve. And secondly, the law needs to be adjusted from time to time, depending on the circumstances.

In any case, I never said that all religions are the same.

I was merely telling you the Islamic belief in this matter.

                                         *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

And I repeat one last time:  

All prophets have exactly the same message. In other words, their teachings in regard to the principles of religion are exactly the same. 

The law might be different from time to time but there is absolutely no difference in the principal messages and the principles.

Thus Noah, Abraham, Jacob,Job, Joseph, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and all other prophets based their teachings on exactly the same basic principles.   

7 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

 So, i think, it is useless to argue here. 

I am not arguing.

I am only telling him what the Islamic view of prophets is.

I am not asking him to accept it.

And I am only doing it because he had the wrong understanding of the word 'Islam.'

So I had to correct it.

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3 hours ago, andres said:

where homosexuals are not persecuted and there is freedom of speach and pornography? Is there no country more suitable for a person like you?

Islam does NOT require homosexuals to be persecuted.

It requires them to be punished but ONLY if they are caught.

If they do it in private, they have no problems.

Remember, Andres, there is a big difference between persecution and punishment.

Please don't mix up the two. 

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5 hours ago, Ijaz Ahmad Al-Swedi said:

 Why do we as Muslims need to care about what Christians say about our beloved Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)?

Because it is our duty to protect the honour of our truthful Prophet.

For 1000 years, non-Muslims have spread lies about him.

And therefore we must do everything in our power to stop them.

We may or may not succeed but I believe we must definitely try our best to prove  that their lies are based on malice and misinformation. 

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7 hours ago, baqar said:

Islam does NOT require homosexuals to be persecuted.

It requires them to be punished but ONLY if they are caught.

If they do it in private, they have no problems.

Remember, Andres, there is a big difference between persecution and punishment.

Please don't mix up the two. 

Having in private ? What do you mean by that bro. 

Homosexual are doing wrong. Normal male and females who are turned homosexuals just for the sake of enjoyment are to be punished and it is written both in Torah and Bible. 

However, transgenders, who were unable to be treated in the past were left into their own social atmosphere where normal people were disallowed to visit because of spread of indecency. Albeit, now there are surgical methods available to cure their incompleteness and make them into normal beings. So, do not get mild on this issue just because you are talking to a foreign person. This message is from Prophets and you should not be mild in saying what is right.  

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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Having in private ? What do you mean by that bro. 

It is always a sin and a very big sin.

 But if they are not caught, they will not be punished.

2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Homosexual are doing wrong. 

 Of course, you are absolutely right.

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1 minute ago, baqar said:

It is always a sin and a very big sin.

 But if they are not caught, they will not be punished.

 Of course, you are absolutely right.

if they are not caught, they will not be punished...agree to that because Islam demands evidence. 

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

if they are not caught, they will not be punished...agree to that because Islam demands evidence. 

Brother, the reason I said that is that some people thinks that Islam persecutes homosexuals. But that is not true.

They are not persecuted but they are punished if they are found out.  

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10 hours ago, baqar said:

Well, we do not quite agree either.

Firstly, religions are not the same for two reasons. They tend to change and evolve. And secondly, the law needs to be adjusted from time to time, depending on the circumstances.

In any case, I never said that all religions are the same.

I was merely telling you the Islamic belief in this matter.

                                         *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

And I repeat one last time:  

All prophets have exactly the same message. In other words, their teachings in regard to the principles of religion are exactly the same. 

The law might be different from time to time but there is absolutely no difference in the principal messages and the principles.

Thus Noah, Abraham, Jacob,Job, Joseph, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and all other prophets based their teachings on exactly the same basic principles.   

I have learned that Islam teaches that Adam and other prophets all had the same message. To me this make no sense, and it is also against all knowledge. However I cannot see that such belief or believing the earth is only 6.000 years old like some Christians still believe does any harm. Now you say that laws change. Of course, the laws in the Bible and the Quran are not always suited to a modern society, or a stoneage tribe. Stoneage people sacrificed to the Gods, sometimes even humans. Israelites sacrified animals to the Gods all around Kanaan until God told them they should only do so in the Tempel in Jerusalem. Today Jews no longer do. Still you say the message of Adam was the same as the message of all other prophets.  I do not quite understand what part of the message from God you mean is exactly the same if the Quranic laws are not included. 

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35 minutes ago, baqar said:

Brother, the reason I said that is that some people thinks that Islam persecutes homosexuals. But that is not true.

They are not persecuted but they are punished if they are found out.  

Seen from a modern society this is persecution. A century ago, before we understood that nobody choses his/her sexuality, we would probably also have said they were punished. And they also were.

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1 hour ago, baqar said:

Brother, the reason I said that is that some people thinks that Islam persecutes homosexuals. But that is not true.

They are not persecuted but they are punished if they are found out.  

Islam is always based upon Justice. It does not persecutes. For every abnormality, there are always laws that are based upon relaxations. However, like Islam does not promotes oppression against abnormal persons, it also forbids from being oppressive to normal and healthy society and dislikes what the Western society has been doing in the name of freedom that is to hurt others belief, call Muslims as to be extremists and so on so forth. 

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47 minutes ago, andres said:

I have learned that Islam teaches that Adam and other prophets all had the same message. To me this make no sense, and it is also against all knowledge. However I cannot see that such belief or believing the earth is only 6.000 years old like some Christians still believe does any harm. Now you say that laws change. Of course, the laws in the Bible and the Quran are not always suited to a modern society, or a stoneage tribe. Stoneage people sacrificed to the Gods, sometimes even humans. Israelites sacrified animals to the Gods all around Kanaan until God told them they should only do so in the Tempel in Jerusalem. Today Jews no longer do. Still you say the message of Adam was the same as the message of all other prophets.  I do not quite understand what part of the message from God you mean is exactly the same if the Quranic laws are not included. 

I have been hearing from you since I talked to you  for the first time that you said: "Islamic laws are not compatible with modern times".  Would you like to describe which law does not fit with the modern time ?

Although Bible and Torah are depraved and you are right about them because much of it's laws went under changes due to the dishonesty of the dishonest religious scholars in Christianity and Judaism but you are wrong about Islam.

Please provide any evidence which you consider that Quran mentions and it is not suitable for modern times.  

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