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I am using a kids revision aid to write down my understanding of Darwin's theory of natural selection:

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Individuals that are poorly adapted to their environment are less likely to survive and reproduce. This means that their genes are less likely to be passed to the next generation. Given enough time, a species will gradually evolve.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/ocr_gateway/understanding_environment/natural_selectionrev2.shtml

Does the above contradict or provide support for the following:

Quote

“This dearth of newborns among the unaffiliated helps explain why religious ‘nones’ (including people who identify as atheist or agnostic, as well as those who have no particular religion) are projected to decline as a share of the world’s population in the coming decades.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/05/muslim-population-overtake-christian-birthrate-20-years

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13 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Individuals that are poorly adapted to their environment are less likely to survive and reproduce.

I have seen most of the people who have poor food and health facilities are likely to reproduce more than literate people who have everything good food and health for maintaining the structure of genes, according to the definition of biologists. 

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37 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I have seen most of the people who have poor food and health facilities are likely to reproduce more than literate people who have everything good food and health for maintaining the structure of genes, according to the definition of biologists. 

Agreed. And add: this is why societies grow "dumber".

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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

I am using a kids revision aid to write down my understanding of Darwin's theory of natural selection:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/ocr_gateway/understanding_environment/natural_selectionrev2.shtml

Does the above contradict or provide support for the following:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/05/muslim-population-overtake-christian-birthrate-20-years

The socio-economic environment is not equivalent to the natural/"wild state" environment.

(Herbert)Spencerism, a.k.a. Social-Darwinism, developed as an early 20th Century proto-idea of a social force for the general readers.

Edited by hasanhh

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1 hour ago, Shahjee12145 said:

darwin theory is pathetic how can he say we was monkey before is it normal or what he makes this thoery only to take people away from religion and Allah SWT

Yeah, a big liar, Humans have same structure like that of "Toads" but Darwin did not say that "Those people who have bigger eyes like Toads were born from toads". Hahahahaha

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

hahahahaha

Bro, l was just reading your comments on African-Shia rant about bio-photonics.

Which leads me to this question: How is Darwinism applied to "fantasy environments" ? What is the evolutionary result of such fantasy environments (besides Jehenna)????

My apologies to you, @Haji 2003 if l have derailed your thread.

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2 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Bro, l was just reading your comments on African-Shia rant about bio-photonics.

Which leads me to this question: How is Darwinism applied to "fantasy environments" ? What is the evolutionary result of such fantasy environments (besides Jehenna)????

My apologies to you, @Haji 2003 if l have derailed your thread.

I only know that if "Darwinism" was right then we would have more "Aristotle' in this era than Greek period. But since there is only one single "Aristotle" for world upon which the world relies still today particularly the West, it seems just that we should put this theory in dustbin. 

Although we Muslims have more extraordinary people that "Aristotle" that is "Prophet PBUHHP and infallible Imams", I would ask those who believe in Darwinism why is that none among the Children of Prophet PBUHHP or in the entire human race can be better than Him or the infallible Imams. That is where, God says to "Darwinists" you should shut up please. 

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10 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Bro, l was just reading your comments on African-Shia rant about bio-photonics.

Which leads me to this question: How is Darwinism applied to "fantasy environments" ? What is the evolutionary result of such fantasy environments (besides Jehenna)????

My apologies to you, @Haji 2003 if l have derailed your thread.

There is no result of this except to make people fall by deceit and destroy them. Only thing which evolve is knowledge of human beings and changes to our bodies is caused in many ways by our own pollution, there were no terrible disease like AIDS and Viral infections in the past then today and there were no chemical weapons in the past that is why people were living healthy lives but now we are having chemicals in everything and we are dying early. 

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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

I have seen most of the people who have poor food and health facilities are likely to reproduce more than literate people who have everything good food and health for maintaining the structure of genes, according to the definition of biologists. 

 

The way I see it is that the literate people often fail to understand the source of their success and are tempted by their material gains to keep as much as possible for themselves rather than for future generations.

Ironically whatever they do leave behind benefits the children of the poor people they despised.

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2 hours ago, Shahjee12145 said:

darwin theory is pathetic how can he say we was monkey before is it normal or what he makes this thoery only to take people away from religion and Allah SWT

 

FWIW I don't believe that natural selection is incompatible with Islam.

I may be wrong and completely misunderstood the issues (won't be the first time).

But I think it is eminently possible for humans to have evolved and at some point became possessed with the spirit of God (starting with Adam a.s.) , which is what IMHO distinguishes us from apes.

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2 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

The way I see it is that the literate people often fail to understand the source of their success and are tempted by their material gains to keep as much as possible for themselves rather than for future generations.

Ironically whatever they do leave behind benefits the children of the poor people they despised.

Whatever it be, most of the literate believe in science and follow capitalism while Illiterate do not have much knowledge about science but do have faith in God that He will never leave them alone in Hunger. There are many grounds in which literates emerge victorious but there are also places where illiterate emerge victorious as well. 

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1 minute ago, Haji 2003 said:

FWIW I don't believe that natural selection is incompatible with Islam.

I may be wrong and completely misunderstood the issues (won't be the first time).

But I think it is eminently possible for humans to have evolved and at some point became possessed with the spirit of God (starting with Adam a.s.) , which is what IMHO distinguishes us from apes.

Lolz, Well, Islam also calls them with their argument that if you believe in natural selection why do not you believe in the naturally selected by birth Prophets ? Here many pro-Darwinists run away. 

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Darwinian Evolution is completely false. 

Watch this video, it's really really interesting and proves anyone that believes in this silly theory wrong.

Darwinian Evolution teaches that kind can change from one kind to another kind. Like for example, dinosaurs evolved into birds. This is change in kind. This is what darwinian evolution is, and as anyone that can think for themselves could tell, this is completely illogical and is not true. Charles Darwin ( invented this theory ) didn't believe in God and made up his own rules. He was misguided.

Edited by Hussaini624

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4 hours ago, Shahjee12145 said:

darwin theory is pathetic how can he say we was monkey before is it normal or what he makes this thoery only to take people away from religion and Allah SWT

 

1 hour ago, Hussaini624 said:

Darwinian Evolution is completely false. 

Watch this video, it's really really interesting and proves anyone that believes in this silly theory wrong.

Darwinian Evolution teaches that kind can change from one kind to another kind. Like for example, dinosaurs evolved into birds. This is change in kind. This is what darwinian evolution is, and as anyone that can think for themselves could tell, this is completely illogical and is not true. Charles Darwin ( invented this theory ) didn't believe in God and made up his own rules. He was misguided.

guys natural selection is not what you are describing. 

its not saying one day there were single cell organisms which became fish which became monkeys and they became human

you do not have to choose between believing in natural selection and being a Muslim you know. the theory is pretty cool and while far from perfect, is a "good enough" theory for the time being based on our current understanding of biology. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

I am using a kids revision aid to write down my understanding of Darwin's theory of natural selection:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/ocr_gateway/understanding_environment/natural_selectionrev2.shtml

Does the above contradict or provide support for the following:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/05/muslim-population-overtake-christian-birthrate-20-years

To answer the question, you would have to show how an unaffiliated religious belief correlates with pre mature death or death of newborns. For example, if unaffiliated people had beliefs that lead them to eat their newborns, then it could be related to natural selection.

Edited by iCambrian

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^ why are you jumping to the idea that those of unaffiliated belief must be killing newborns? They're using condoms. Or too tired from the 9-5 to do anything procreative. 

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Oh I see, it says dearth not death.

 

The question "Does the above contradict or provide support for the following: ", appeared to be one that asked if the theory of evolution by natural selection could be supported by a lack of newborns with relation to unaffiliated religious beliefs.

This dearth of newborns among the unaffiliated helps explain why religious ‘nones’ (including people who identify as atheist or agnostic, as well as those who have no particular religion) are projected to decline as a share of the world’s population in the coming decades.”

I was simply saying that, if you want to ask that question, then you simply have to ask how an unaffiliated religious belief directly correlates to people having less children.

But presumably, the direct correlation isn't there, as we are all likely aware that there are unaffiliated people who have many children.  In which case, the question of if one supports the other, would be no. At least not in any simple clear cut way.

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This is always an interesting topic.  Some of the fastest growing countries by population, are those of developing nations.  Many of which have difficulty with poverty and famine. Low education rates and low use of contraceptives.  There are both Christian and Muslim nations in this list.

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/WorldStats/UNCTAD-natural-increase-rate-inhabitants.html

Of the top 15

Niger

Timor Leste

Uganda

Burkina Faso

Tanzania

Chad

Benin

Somalia

Afghanistan

Malawi

Yemen

Guinea

DRC

Mali

Liberia

Many of these countries, are heavily impoverished. Many are from Africa.

I suppose one thing I could say is that, natural selection works for life versus non life.  It isn't necessarily about quality of life, just life as it pertains to numerical proliferation.

Some of it depends on environmental pressures as well.  There aren't really environmental pressures that would create much natural competition, to the extent that it would make say, African nations that are developing, compete against non African nations. For example, if water were running out, throughout all of the planet, and say, water supplies in Africa were of the only remaining supplies, it would create conflict.  But, global conflict like that doesn't really exist in that way. So, what we see is a free proliferation of people across many nations.  The environmental stresses described by Darwin, do not exist in a way which would impede population growth between muslim and non muslim nations. 

Unless use of contraceptives, could be a form of selection, like a quality vs quantity. Like in China, their 1 child per couple law.  Designed to protect quality vs quantity.

Lots to think about.  Mankind is so dynamic that it throws off simple natural selection.

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2 hours ago, iCambrian said:

But presumably, the direct correlation isn't there, as we are all likely aware that there are unaffiliated people who have many children.  In which case, the question of if one supports the other, would be no. At least not in any simple clear cut way.

Of course, you may know unaffiliated people who have many children just as you may know many smokers in their 90s. And the the latter case the correlation was well known before the medical causality was proven.

It may take a while before any causality is proven, but while rational unaffiliated communities seek a scientific explanation of their situation, the trends suggest that they'll no longer exist by the time any results are known.

Edited by Haji 2003

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58 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Of course, you may know unaffiliated people who have many children just as you may know many smokers in their 90s. And the the latter case the correlation was well known before the medical causality was proven.

It may take a while before any causality is proven, but while rational unaffiliated communities seek a scientific explanation of their situation, the trends suggest that they'll no longer exist by the time any results are known.

 

Well, theres a difference between biological extinction, and say...cutting back on your population because you are overpopulated. Like, say China (which if im not mistaken is predominantly atheist) is cutting back on their population, relatively speaking, in comparison to sub Saharan African countries.  But to me, that doesn't mean that Chinese people are going to go extinct. Rather, their population still climbs at a pretty hefty rate.  Because there really isn't a natural...sort of competitive factor to stop them.  They willfully stop themselves for their safety, or quality of life. As opposed to being stopped by natural selection, or a natural destructive force. But intentionally slowing reproduction, is not equivalent to self destruction, or destruction by an outside force.

Nature isn't "selecting" from the strongest. Theyre "artificially" selecting a way which best benefits their survival as a country (which just happens to include limiting their population). Which is interesting.  Who would ever imagine that too many people would be a bad thing? And that, rather than it coming down to genetics, their prosperity in many ways relates to what piece of land they live on.

--------------------------------------------------------

Also, with respect to...thought and ideas.  Ideas like atheism vs theism, they permeate all societies and have been around for as long as mankind had awareness of these thoughts.  Such basic, fundamental ideas, I don't think would go extinct, as say, the wooly mammoth would. A whooly mammoth can die and disappear forever (or not if we clone one), but ideas can exist, for as long as we have the potential to consider them.

But who knows, I guess we will see. Or perhaps some of us will not.

------------------------------------------------------------

Darwinian evolution, as it is typically considered, in scientific terms, really is something, almost alien to mankind.  Mankind is exceptional in complexity. So many factors play into who lives, who dies and whos ideas prosper.

Good topic for discussion.

Oh and thanks for the "like"!

Edited by iCambrian

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And on Smoking, that's an oddball as well because typically people do not develop cancer until ages in which theyre older than typical reproductive ages. So while it is destructive to our bodies, it in some ways it almost bypasses natural selection.  That's how cancer is in general. Its predominantly an old age kind of thing, so it gets a pass with natural selection.

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Like @iCambrian I don't think decreasing precentage of unaffiliated people and natural selection have a direct link. 

1. Atheists and agnostics have fewer children. One of the reason might be that there are no rewards waiting for them in the afterlife for increasing the size of their communities. They are also free from religious pressures towards procreating (catholics and birth control, abortion for Muslims,  Mormons,  quiverfull movement etc) 

Another factor is demographics.A large population of unaffiliated people live in China which is predicted to have a negative population growth in future.This decrease would be in the unaffliated population since Cinese Muslims (and other ethnic minorities) are exempt from the one child family planning policy).

Another country with a high population of atheists is Japan where there is decreased natural population growth.

There is a negative correlation between number of children and the education of parents and also between education and religiosity.

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