Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Enlightened Follower

Irrefutable evidence Islam is against rape

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

It is not said that arrange marriage of those. The verse starts with "wankehu". So it is quite clear. And look at the wording of this verse too:

Surah An-Noor, Verse 33:

وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لَا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّىٰ يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا وَآتُوهُم مِّن مَّالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ وَلَا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِّتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَمَن يُكْرِههُّنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِن بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

(English - Shakir)

 

Looks like, I have to get admission into Hawzah :worried:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

(English - Shakir)

Kitab refers to a written instrument which allows a slave to redeem himself on paying a certain amount. This document obliges the master to set his slave at liberty on receiving the agreed amount which the slave collects either by his labour or by receiving donations from others. See fiqh.

Aqa Mehdi poya says this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, E.L King said:

I believe I found the answer to this in Minhaj Al-Saliheen by Sayyed Al-Khoei dear bro.

يجب على مشتري الجارية من الرجل استبراؤها بحيضة إذا لم يستبرئها البائع إلا إذا علم بعدم كونها موطوءة وتقدم تفصيل ذلك في مسائل بيع الحيوان .

http://www.al-khoei.us/books/?id=6767

What is written in this @E.L King I do not understand Arabic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Engineer73

As for you said that Islamic did not treat slave girls well, I would like to tell you that it has many rights as compared to Empires of that time:

1. They had right to get manumission from slavery after paying a sum. 

2. If they were kept in prisons as POWs, they would have either died in Jails or in Battles as Human shields, so Islam absorbed them in its society.

3. They also got their basic necessities fulfilled during that time even though they were slaves.

4. Islam was the only religion who speak more on slavery than any other system during that time. 

So, I think Islam did more than any other system during that time and even today. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Looks like, I have to get admission into Hawzah :worried:

24:32 encourages marriage with female and male slaves. This was done to free them from slavery, 1300 years ago. For them to get equal rights. To be shown that they are equal to others in the sight of God. The abolishment of slavery was a gradual process.

6 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Kitab refers to a written instrument which allows a slave to redeem himself on paying a certain amount. This document obliges the master to set his slave at liberty on receiving the agreed amount which the slave collects either by his labour or by receiving donations from others. See fiqh.

Aqa Mehdi poya says this. 

Ok, what kitab means in this verse:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 235:

وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِيمَا عَرَّضْتُم بِهِ مِنْ خِطْبَةِ النِّسَاءِ أَوْ أَكْنَنتُمْ فِي أَنفُسِكُمْ عَلِمَ اللَّهُ أَنَّكُمْ سَتَذْكُرُونَهُنَّ وَلَٰكِن لَّا تُوَاعِدُوهُنَّ سِرًّا إِلَّا أَن تَقُولُوا قَوْلًا مَّعْرُوفًا وَلَا تَعْزِمُوا عُقْدَةَ النِّكَاحِ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ الْكِتَابُ أَجَلَهُ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي أَنفُسِكُمْ فَاحْذَرُوهُ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ حَلِيمٌ

And there is no blame on you respecting that which you speak indirectly in the asking of (such) women in marriage or keep (the proposal) concealed within your minds; Allah knows that you will mention them, but do not give them a promise in secret unless you speak in a lawful manner, and do not confirm the marriage tie until the writing is fulfilled, and know that Allah knows what is in your minds, therefore beware of Him, and know that Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

(English - Shakir)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, Engineer73 said:

Then one can question here "Is Islam against slavery?"

If one cannot do justice with two wives, he is advised to marry one & buy slave girls for his sexual satisfaction? Is this the case brother? 
 

Yes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Engineer73 said:

do not confirm the marriage tie until the writing is fulfilled

Here it is said that marriage is not complete without writing, But, as I told you that who knows may be some Ulemas have read hadith which says that "Deed of Possession" is "Written Legal document for having sexual intercourse" to whom they may consider "that your right hand possesses". 

I read about Imam Mosa al-Kadhem a.s that He a.s bought a slave-girl from a merchant. And brought her to his mother, she freed her and proposed her for marriage to Imam Musa al Kadhem and she was a princess who then bore Imam Ali Reza a.s. 

I am just telling you what am I reading and what Have I read. I cannot say anything from my Own. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

@Engineer73

As for you said that Islamic did not treat slave girls well, I would like to tell you that it has many rights as compared to Empires of that time:

1. They had right to get manumission from slavery after paying a sum. 

2. If they were kept in prisons as POWs, they would have either died in Jails or in Battles as Human shields, so Islam absorbed them in its society.

3. They also got their basic necessities fulfilled during that time even though they were slaves.

4. Islam was the only religion who speak more on slavery than any other system during that time. 

So, I think Islam did more than any other system during that time and even today. 

I am a Muslim brother, Alhamdolillah.

I know that Islam speaks against slavery & discourages it. 

Surah Al-Balad, Verse 10:

وَهَدَيْنَاهُ النَّجْدَيْنِ

And pointed out to him the two conspicuous ways?

Surah Al-Balad, Verse 10:

وَهَدَيْنَاهُ النَّجْدَيْنِ

 

And pointed out to him the two conspicuous ways?

Surah Al-Balad, Verse 11:

فَلَا اقْتَحَمَ الْعَقَبَةَ

But he would not attempt the uphill road,

Surah Al-Balad, Verse 12:

وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا الْعَقَبَةُ

And what will make you comprehend what the uphill road is?

Surah Al-Balad, Verse 13:

فَكُّ رَقَبَةٍ

(It is) the setting free of a slave,

(English - Shakir)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

What is written in this @E.L King I do not understand Arabic.

Basically, the new owner if he buys her from another man has to wait an iddah before he can have intercourse with her.

You were correct about the iddah thing dear bro!

However I checked all the books and no scholar said there is a "seegha". It seems the "seegha" is the fact that she is his possession, and that is the "contract".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, E.L King said:

Basically, the new owner if he buys her from another man has to wait an iddah before he can have intercourse with her.

You were correct about the iddah thing dear bro!

However I checked all the books and no scholar said there is a "seegha". It seems the "seegha" is the fact that she is his possession, and that is the "contract".

This for first time, may be I liked what you said upon a matter in which I disagreed with you. 

And, I hope, I will never be doubtful about you again and ask for His guidance to guide me for the sake of Ahle bait a.s. 

I apologize brother, but in Islam, there is nothing which one can have without the permission of Allah AWJ and leave it without His permission. 

I will read it further as well. But, it was nice discussion though.  Sorry @E.L King once again, I am just impatient man. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

read about Imam Mosa al-Kadhem a.s that He a.s bought a slave-girl from a merchant. And brought her to his mother, she freed her and proposed her for marriage to Imam Musa al Kadhem and she was a princess who then bore Imam Ali Reza a.s. 

I am just telling you what am I reading and what Have I read. I cannot say anything from my Own. 

Subhan Allah, this is the exact way mentioned in Quran.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

This for first time, may be I liked what you said upon a matter in which I disagreed with you. 

And, I hope, I will never be doubtful about you again and ask for His guidance to guide me for the sake of Ahle bait a.s. 

I apologize brother, but in Islam, there is nothing which one can have without the permission of Allah AWJ and leave it without His permission. 

I will read it further as well. But, it was nice discussion though.  Sorry @E.L King once again, I am just impatient man. 

 

It is okay my dear brother I know how passionate you are about Islamic subjects. I believe this discussion was healthy and insha Allah we have more healthy discussions. We may disagree a lot but insha Allah we will both see each other in Jannah.

Then we can discuss for eternity :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, E.L King said:

It is okay my dear brother I know how passionate you are about Islamic subjects. I believe this discussion was healthy and insha Allah we have more healthy discussions. We may disagree a lot but insha Allah we will both see each other in Jannah.

Then we can discuss for eternity :)

Insha-Allah, I hope we will discuss everything while entering the gate of Jannah, it is so huge gate and then we will play games bro, everything will be discussed till then. And racing bikes and may be watching videos of histories of Prophets and Saliheen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, E.L King said:

It is allowed intercourse with those whom your right hand possesses.

Each time I come on here, King seems to resemble more and more of the Shia version of Wahabbi. The Ahlul Bayt say compassion and dignity and he shows the exact opposite attitude.

Edited by Enlightened Follower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets see the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh):

The most notable of Prophet Muhammad's slaves were: Safiyya bint Huyayy, whom he freed and married; Maria al-Qibtiyya, given to Prophet Muhammad by a Sassanid official, whom he freed and who may have become his wife; Sirin, Maria's sister, whom he freed and married to the poet Hassan ibn Thabit andZayd ibn Harithah, whom Prophet Muhammad freed and adopted as a son.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Each time I come on here, King seems to resemble more and more of the Shia version of Wahabbi. The Ahlul Bayt say compassion and dignity and he shows the exact opposite attitude.

Thanks for the insults.

They said the same things about my brother @Haydar Husayn in this thread:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234993598-sex-with-female-slaves/

 

Edited by E.L King

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just contacted a aalim and he said to me that there is no need for marriage seegha with slave-women, because the contract is the man buying her or owning her.

I will however wait for the answer from Sistani's office, insha Allah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother @Engineer73 I wanted to quote you what Sayyed Dastagheib ÑÍãå Çááøå has said about slavery:

Q.58: Is the buying and selling of slaves lawful in this age also? ls it allowed to apprehend people from Africa etc. and sell them in other places?

Freeing of slaves as expiation for lapsed fasts is ordered in the Holy Quran. If this order is permanent, it has become impracticable today.

A: Yes, it is permissible for a Muslim to apprehend an original disbeliever in any way and from anywhere and enslave him provided he is not under treaty or responsibility of any Muslim (Zimmi). After that his buying and selling is allowed.

As for the obligation of freeing a slave as expiation in times like this when no slave is available, since slavery is banned, the obligation of freeing of slaves too has been dropped due to impracticabi lity. Its substitute is also not available and in this matter there is no difference between optional expiation and total expiation.

The holy religion of Islam is attacked with regard to the matter of slavery. In this connection they target this Quranic command of freeing of slaves. As these attacks are likely to affect the minds of some unaware people, here we briefly hint at this order of freeing slaves. There is no doubt that slavery is not especially related to Islam. It was in vogue in all ages among all communities and regions of the world.

Every community had its own manner of slavery and dealings in slaves. The behavior of some communities was extremely pitiful, especially in Europe where it was very tragic. They dealt and behaved with their slave folks extremely harshly. [Anyone who wants to know the condition of slaves in Europe and America and other countries may refer to Dairatul Maarif (encyclopedia)].

In short, the holy religion of Islam only allowed this matter, which was in vogue in human beings, but on the condition that the slave should be a disbeliever and he or she also must not be under the protection of Muslims. In fact enslaving a disbeliever is a kind of great service to all humanity, because through it the disbeliever comes in touch with Muslims and gets awareness about the religion of Islam.

Thereby, after sometime, the human society gets a God­ fearing and righteous person, especially when Islamic laws of dealing with slaves are followed properly (as will be mentioned). Stories of slaves who reached high ranks in spiritualism and righteousness are already recorded in books of history. Some slaves due to their high intelligence and awareness have been influential elements in society; others even reached the position of ministership and kingship.

Islamic laws about slaves: It is known to all who are aware of laws of Islam, how much Islam has emphasized freeing of slaves. For this purpose Islam has framed compulsory rules like expiation of murder and missing of Ramadan fasts etc. through emancipating slaves. Many other recommendations are made regarding slaves.

As regards their rights, the Holy Quran, along with saying:

وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا

"...and show kindness to your parents ..." (Al-Anam, 6: 151)

says:

وَمَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ

"...and those whom your right hands possess ...” (An-N isa, 4:36)

. . .which means behave nicely with slaves and handmaids. The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) as well as Amirul Momineen (a.s.) have also mentioned in their wills: "You must take care of two types of the weak: women folk and slaves."

https://www.al-islam.org/82-questions-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi/jurisprudence-fiqh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, E.L King said:

In short, the holy religion of Islam only allowed this matter, which was in vogue in human beings, but on the condition that the slave should be a disbeliever and he or she also must not be under the protection of Muslims. In fact enslaving a disbeliever is a kind of great service to all humanity, because through it the disbeliever comes in touch with Muslims and gets awareness about the religion of Islam.

Why then Muslims accepted ban on slavery? Why they forbid what Allah has declared halal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, E.L King said:

Islamic laws about slaves: It is known to all who are aware of laws of Islam, how much Islam has emphasized freeing of slaves. For this purpose Islam has framed compulsory rules like expiation of murder and missing of Ramadan fasts etc. through emancipating slaves.

What a contradiction that is! At the one hand Islam emphasized freeing of slaves and on the other hand Islam has allowed to make people slaves. 

Do you know any single Quranic verse which commands to make people/disbelievers slaves?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, E.L King said:

Yes, it is permissible for a Muslim to apprehend an original disbeliever in any way and from anywhere and enslave him provided he is not under treaty or responsibility of any Muslim (Zimmi). After that his buying and selling is allowed.

Even if that disbeliever living with peace? Even if he is not fighting or plotting against Muslims?

I fear that this ruling is directly colliding with the verses of Quran.

Edited by Engineer73

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Engineer73 said:

What a contradiction that is! At the one hand Islam emphasized freeing of slaves and on the other hand Islam has allowed to make people slaves. 

Do you know any single Quranic verse which commands to make people/disbelievers slaves?
 

O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

33:50 SHAKIR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Salaam Alaykum When I was back home, I thought my dad is abusive. He made me cry at 2 am by creating a family fight. That time I was 7 years old. A 7 years old boy was crying at 2 am. A 7 years old was in the middle of family problem with a HUGE amount of stress. Now I gained the freedom that you are seeking. Now after living seven years away from my dad, I just want to see my same dad and kiss his feet and hands for his effort on raising me. He never let me grow up on street, he supported me financially. I'm grateful for that. I wish I could squeeze his hands one more time. When I have stress and pressure, I need my dad support.   To the OP: you're dad is a good man. One time with all of those restrictions that you have, just sit down and have a tee and biscuits with him and enjoy.  
    • It does not look pretty. They freak me out. Wear an aqeeq and call it a day please!
    • Salaam First part: what's that?  Second part: no I wear aqeeq, dur e Najaaf, feroz, yaqoot. I also have the threads we touch the zaris with in ziyarat. 
    • Everyhing is instant now a days  Fine....
    • One muslim asked me that why we do latmiyah and cry, so I told because of mourning the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (saws) martyrdom, then he answer: "So you beat yourselves to this day for that reason.. Really.." And that's how it saddens to hear how the hearth have become so blind, that nothing but insulting the 'Aali Muhammad.
×