Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Enlightened Follower

Irrefutable evidence Islam is against rape

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Even in Quran, it is written in very explicitly that "which your right hand possesses" about women who were bought or were POWs. "Right hand possesses" meant that you possesses them legally and having sexual intercourse without "Aqd" is "illegal". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Even in Quran, it is written in very explicitly that "which your right hand possesses" about women who were bought or were POWs. "Right hand possesses" meant that you possesses them legally and having sexual intercourse without "Aqd" is "illegal". 

It is allowed intercourse with those whom your right hand possesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, E.L King said:

It is allowed intercourse with those whom your right hand possesses.

Yeah but first we should be aware what right hand possesses means and it means to have them in "legal relationship" in the form of "Nikah".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Yeah but first we should be aware what right hand possesses means and it means to have them in "legal relationship" in the form of "Nikah".

Yes but you do not have to marry them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

·[4:3] And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.

Marry only one or that your right hand possesses. So, marriage is there brother. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[4:24] And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise

Edited by Sindbad05

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

[4:24] And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise

I believe you are reading the Verse wrong my beloved brother. If you read the Ayah before it, it is speaking about women with whom marriage/intercourse is haram with (sisters, aunts etc...). 

And then this Verse is saying that is haram with you to have intercourse with already married except slave-girls as they can be married but taken into captive but still are halal for you to have intercourse with.

Another Verse proving there is a difference between marriage and right hand posseses is this:

 

“Who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess, - for (in their case) they are free from blame: But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors.” [The Holy Qur’an, al-Muminun 23:5-7]

As you can see, the Ayah is saying there are two types of people a man can have intercourse with.

1) Who he is in a marriage bond with

2) Those who his right hand posseses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

·[4:3] And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.

Marry only one or that your right hand possesses. So, marriage is there brother. 

Thank you my dear brother.

The Verse is not saying to marry them, it is saying to take slave-girls.

This is what Allamah Tabataba'i says;

That is, slave-girls. If a man is afraid that he will not do justice between many wives, then he should marry only one; and if he wants more, then he should take slave-girls, because they are not entitled to division of nights.

Obviously, the provision of the alternative - taking the slave girls - does not mean that one may misbehave with, or do injustice to them; Allah does not like the unjust, nor is He unjust to His servants. It only means that it is easier to maintain justice with them because they are not included in the rule of division of nights. This very reason shows that this clause refers to taking, and living with them by virtue of possession, not by marriage; the matter of marrying them has been described later in the verse: And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens... (4:25).

http://m.almizan.org/tafsir/4-2-6/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

[4:24] And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise

 

Allama Tabatabai says:

Nevertheless, it seems a bit difficult to say that it is 'marriage' which is implied by the word, 'forbidden', because of the exceptional clause coming later: except those whom your right hands possess. Sexual intercourse with one's slave women is lawful without marriage. Therefore, it would seem more appropriate if prohibition is taken to refer to sexual intercourse, and not to marriage alone, as will be explained later. The same is the implication of the words: that you seek (them) by means of your wealth ..., as will be described afterwards. Thus the fact emerges that the implied word after 'forbidden' is cohabitation, or another similar word, not marriage. Allah has avoided mentioning it explicitly, because the divine speech refrains from such words and maintains a high moral decorum.

http://m.almizan.org/tafsir/4-23-28/

Edited by E.L King

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Thank you my dear brother.

The Verse is not saying to marry them, it is saying to take slave-girls.

This is what Allamah Tabataba'i says;

 

 

What if you have a slave girl and you release her and she marries to another person and since there is no marriage,  there is no Iddah and if she is pregnant and neither you nor she knows what will happen if child is born from it from whom will the child inherit? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the reasoning for which marriage has to be in place and if you read that Allah SWT prohibits from fornication and therefore it leads to that if there is no "Nikah" it is fornication Bro because you don't have right to divorce her and if you free her she is not entitled to iddah? Am I right? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

What if you have a slave girl and you release her and she marries to another person and since there is no marriage,  there is no Iddah and if she is pregnant and neither you nor she knows what will happen if child is born from it from whom will the child inherit? 

This is a question I do not have an answer to my dear bro. I suggest you contact the fuqaha for that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

This is the reasoning for which marriage has to be in place and if you read that Allah SWT prohibits from fornication and therefore it leads to that if there is no "Nikah" it is fornication Bro because you don't have right to divorce her and if you free her she is not entitled to iddah? Am I right? 

Sorry I didn't understand this question dear bro. 

I said that having intercourse is allowed with two groups in the case of a man.

With his wife and with his slave-girl. Other than those two it is fornication. As Allamah Tabatabai said in his Tafsir, intercourse is allowed with women without marriage.

And as Surat Al-Mu'minun has done, by saying that intercourse is allowed with those we have a marriage bond with AND with those our right hand posseses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, E.L King said:

Sorry I didn't understand this question dear bro. 

I said that having intercourse is allowed with two groups in the case of a man.

With his wife and with his slave-girl. Other than those two it is fornication. As Allamah Tabatabai said in his Tafsir, intercourse is allowed with women without marriage.

And as Surat Al-Mu'minun has done, by saying that intercourse is allowed with those we have a marriage bond with AND with those our right hand posseses.

Right hand possesses are also in Nikah but do not have equal rights. Do you know that Imam Ali a.s says there are two talaq for slave girl and three for independent wife. So, there is "Nikah".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Right hand possesses are also in Nikah but do not have equal rights. Do you know that Imam Ali a.s says there are two talaq for slave girl and three for independent wife. So, there is "Nikah".

Did you read what Allama Tabatabai said?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, Allama says even if the slave-girl is married to another man, her master can have intercourse with her.

Quote

Consequently, the exceptional clause, "except those whom your right hands possess", will exclude one's married slave girl from this prohibition. It has been narrated in traditions that the master of a married slave woman may take away that woman from her husband, keep her untouched for the prescribed term, then have sexual relation with her, and thereafter return her to her husband.

Edited by E.L King

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Right hand possesses are also in Nikah but do not have equal rights. Do you know that Imam Ali a.s says there are two talaq for slave girl and three for independent wife. So, there is "Nikah".

My brother "right hand posseses" is an exceptional clause not included within marriage.

Read what the Allama says as I have highlighted that.

Edited by E.L King

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, E.L King said:

As you can see, the Ayah is saying there are two types of people a man can have intercourse with.

1) Who he is in a marriage bond with

2) Those who his right hand posseses

Then one can question here "Is Islam against slavery?"

If one cannot do justice with two wives, he is advised to marry one & buy slave girls for his sexual satisfaction? Is this the case brother? 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Partially responding to the title question: 3:186 3:198
    • I posted but dc. So i forget what i explained. However, you should learn the manner/behavior of Imam Ahlul Bayt a.s. upon receiving bad word.
    • بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم Despite the repeated use of the phrase “there is no proof or evidence for the existence of God,” I would imagine most atheists, and indeed most people, are unaware that there is in fact a technical difference between evidence and proof. Fittingly, the distinction between proof and evidence was initially taught to me in an introductory evolutionary biology course by an ardent atheist professor during my first year of university. My professor used this distinction to justify why she would not be receiving objections to evolution in her class. (Literally, she said that we were not allowed to question evolution or present counter evidence during the lecture, and that she would not entertain it during her office hours.) It was the most bizarre and dogmatic moment I had in my entire education, and I say this as someone who was blessed to study theology in a seminary environment for a year. Contrary to popular opinion, the seminaries are far less dogmatic when it comes to foundational beliefs, as they permit questioning the existence of God and raising objections to the proofs offered. She argued that evolution was based upon good evidence, but could never attain the status of complete certainty. It was a probabilistic argument, like virtually all of science, rather than a demonstration, as in the case of mathematical proofs (and, as we shall see, metaphysical arguments.) I still vividly remember the slide used to showcase an example of rational certainty – it was that of a triangle with some lines and an accompanying trigonometric proof. Because evolution (along with all empirical science) could never attain 100% rational certainty, she argued that it was always possible to be a skeptic, to raise objections about inductive inferences which are probabilistic at best, or to posit alternative explanations that could explain the data, no matter how improbable. Oh the irony. If scientific atheists only applied their standards consistently, they would either deny science or accept God. We will see why more clearly later on when we explore the evidence for the existence of God. But there is neither here nor there. For now, what I want to do is just go over some basic concepts in reason in order to set the table for the coming arguments...

      This article was originally published on themuslimtheist.com. Click here to continue reading.
    • بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم As we stated earlier, before we can answer the question “how can I know that God exists?” we must first ask the question “how do I know anything at all.” There are multiple ways that the intellect comes to know, and these modalities (or ways) of knowing are arranged hierarchically. I will go from the lowest form of knowledge to the highest – though this may seem unintuitive to the modern mind, which has been conditioned to see certainty as ordered in precisely the opposite direction. I will sort out these modern confusions as we proceed upon each level, inshaAllah. The lowest form of knowing, and the least certain is that of sense perception. “Huh? But I thought you had to see it to believe it?” you may ask. Ah, but you see sense perception deceives us all the time. We readily admit that. Sometimes we see things that aren’t really there, and sometimes what we see does not reflect reality. For instance, we perceive the earth as being flat, the sun as setting upon the horizon, the stars as being small, and if I were to put my finger in a glass of water it would appear to break due to the refraction of light. Your eyes deceive you Take a look at this clip around 12:30 where Dawkins himself says that if he were to see a direct sign of God – the heavens opening up and seeing the angels – he would still disbelieve in God. Instead, he would find it more probable that he were hallucinating, that David Blaine or some magician were playing a trick on him, or that aliens with some advanced technology could manipulate reality to make him think he were seeing what he were seeing. You can hear his own words here....

      This article was originally published on themuslimtheist.com. Click here to continue reading.
    • @Ali Hassan Hussain Mutah or marriage is not a solution to getting rid of masturbation addiction. Unfortunately many Muslims are uneducated in this sense and feel that it is a magical solution. As I said, masturbation is a behavioural addiction and it does not depend on you being married or not. Your brain is wired in a certain way (although you can fix it). There are numerous cases of Muslim/non-Muslim men who are addicted to masturbation even when they are married. Having a mindset that "marriage will solve my problem" is horrible. Guys who say this have no will power to get their addiction sorted. I feel sorry for girls who have to put up with those guys. Marriage is a way to keep you safe from masturbation to start with - so you don't develop an addiction. It can help you manage addiction but is not the ultimate solution. I'm just saying this to give you a very honest advice, one which very few people will give you.  Focus on building healthy habits. You need to have enough will power to say "no" when it comes to masturbation. Learn to hold yourself accountable. No matter how strong your desires are - it is possible to say no. Join an online community with other people who also have similar problems, to educate yourself on the potential consequences. In addition, you need to tell someone who you trust, be he a psychologist, stranger, friend or anyone. Keeping this addiction to yourself is part of the problem. Inshallah you can get rid of this addiction. Just man up and hold yourself accountable.   
×