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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

This is useless to compare your I.Q with anyone other. Since there is nothing, so why are you talking about a thing which does not exist. This is itself a comment due to low I.Q bro, I am sorry to say that. 

The very possibility (that there could be someone to completely show us how inadequate our I.Q. is and as a consequence demonstrate to us how silly our beliefs are) has HUGE implications for our epistemology.   For one, merely accepting such a possibility implies that you are uncertain about your beliefs because you are indirectly saying that there is a possibility you could be wrong.  And this is a problem which I personally cannot live with.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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7 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Not sure what you are trying to say.  What is your belief based on?  Are you saying your belief is independent of reason?

Reason is a very important part of it, but another person might use reason to come to a very different conclusion, so if another person or alien being reasons differently and reaches different conclusions from the same evidence, that's for them not me. I would be happy to discuss our different beliefs with them, but even if they have more advanced minds then ours, their conclusions are not our conclusions. 

If they have different evidence, that's a different matter. I'd be interested in seeing that, for sure. 

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3 hours ago, magma said:

If you believe in God, then the statement "God ultimately guides" is sufficient. You are free from the burden of stacking humans on the bottom, aliens above them, and whatever else above that, and so on. 

What is the basis of your belief? How do YOU believe in God?  

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

conclusions

 

3 minutes ago, notme said:

Reason is a very important part of it, but another person might use reason to come to a very different conclusion, so if another person or alien being reasons differently and reaches different conclusions from the same evidence, that's for them not me. I would be happy to discuss our different beliefs with them, but even if they have more advanced minds then ours, their conclusions are not our conclusions. 

If they have different evidence, that's a different matter. I'd be interested in seeing that, for sure. 

So, if reason is a major basis for your belief, what are the less important or minor basis for your beliefs?

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8 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

 

So, if reason is a major basis for your belief, what are the less important or minor basis for your beliefs?

I don't know. It just feels right. Is that ok?

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Just now, eThErEaL said:

Not for me.

Obviously my feeling isn't going to convince you, that's not the point. Along with reason, a bit of feeling is enough for me. 

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12 minutes ago, notme said:

Obviously my feeling isn't going to convince you, that's not the point. Along with reason, a bit of feeling is enough for me. 

What is the feeling based on?

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Possible? Yes.

Provable? No.

kittens over humans? But they are Allah's creation. I am talking about every single alien pic or character you have ever seen. Show me one that is not a perverse version of humanoid or another animal.

Yes.

I am already on SC.

So are you saying we can not reason Allah, only believe in him?

 

 

So it is possible you could be wrong in your reasoning for God's existence?

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

The very possibility (that there could be someone to completely show us how inadequate our I.Q. is and as a consequence demonstrate to us how silly our beliefs are) has HUGE implications for our epistemology.   For one, merely accepting such a possibility implies that you are uncertain about your beliefs because you are indirectly saying that there is a possibility you could be wrong.  And this is a problem which I personally cannot live with.  

But what if that same someone with a much higher IQ proves the existence of Allah. So the conversation could go both ways.

Accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being is not the same as accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being that can prove / disprove the existence of God.

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19 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So it is possible you could be wrong in your reasoning for God's existence?

The existence of God and my reasoning for the existence of God are not directly related.

I could believe that Allah exists to keep me alive only. Reasoning would be wrong but the belief in Allah's existence would be right.

 

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45 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

What is the feeling based on?

I already admitted that I don't know. 

Humans innately have a creator-concept. We're made that way. 

Here are a couple internet articles. I encourage you to search for more if you're interested.

https://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/08/evolutionary_st/

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982

The research paper that I found was only available for a fee.

Edited by notme

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7 minutes ago, notme said:

I already admitted that I don't know. 

Humans innately have a creator-concept. We're made that way. I'll see if I can find an article describing the research. (I posted about it here before.) 

 

I agree. It is a fact that man has always felt the need to bow to a "supreme" being. In the absence of the knowledge of such a being, man creates objects and worships it instead. 

But worship is inherent in man's nature. 

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39 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

But what if that same someone with a much higher IQ proves the existence of Allah. So the conversation could go both ways.

Accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being is not the same as accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being that can prove / disprove the existence of God.

Sure.  The question I am really asking is wether or not we are certain about God.  Because if we are certain then it becomes impossible for a being, no matter how great it's I.Q. Is, to make us think otherwise.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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38 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

The existence of God and my reasoning for the existence of God are not directly related.

I could believe that Allah exists to keep me alive only. Reasoning would be wrong but the belief in Allah's existence would be right.

 

So what is the difference between the two for you?

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16 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Sure.  The question I am really asking is wether or not we are certain about God.  Because if we are certain then it becomes impossible for a being, no matter how great it's I.Q. Is, to make us think otherwise.  

Sure, I am as certain about God as I am certain about the earth being round(ish).

A higher being and the existence of God are independent. Also, unless the higher being brings about facts that we are not aware off, it would hard to convince us otherwise.

16 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So what is the difference between the two for you?

Light travels at a certain speed. I may say it travels at 1080km/hr when in reality it travels 1080million km/hr. Fact is it still travels 

So I can have faulty reasoning for believing in Allah but it won't change the fact that God exists. 

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Hello,

The crux of most of the arguments presented seem to be "All that I see around me in nature is proof of God's existence and substantiates my religious beliefs."

I think the alien, if they were nice aliens, would simply look at you and smile and ask "But who created God?"

All the Best,

David

 

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

So what is the difference between the two for you?

 

19 minutes ago, David66 said:

Hello,

The crux of most of the arguments presented seem to be "All that I see around me in nature is proof of God's existence and substantiates my religious beliefs."

I think the alien, if they were nice aliens, would simply look at you and smile and ask "But who created God?"

All the Best,

David

 

 

But we already have the answer to that, don't we David? In Islam, we are told there is life outside of earth, in the universe and beyond That god is the creator and sustainer of all these life forms, in all worlds. It would be foolish to think that we humans are the only one among the zillions and zillions of galaxies. Aristotle and Plato, the fathers of logic, believed that God must exist, and that all things must have a beginning – except God. Plato argued that the design of creation must have a designer. While he may have been from a time before modern science he is still viewed as one of the most logical thinkers in history. Ask yourself using logic and reason,  -Is it possible that humans were created from nothing and by nothing? Would this not violate reason? How can something come from nothing and also nothing comes from something? -Did humans create themselves? Is this logical? One must already exist in order to create one’s self. But in order to be created, one must first not exist! -So, humans must be created by something already in existence. In order for this to happen, there must be an infinite regression of causes which leads to humans not being in existence. If C1 was created by C2 and C2 by C3 to CN, then C1 cannot exist unless C2 does and so on. And CN means that it has no beginning. Consequently C1 cannot exist. So if human existence is preceded by infinite amount of causes requiring infinite amount of time to take place, it is as saying that they will never take place. Human existence thus becomes impossible. Greek philosopher Aristotle argued similarly that infinite regression of the causes and effect chain was impossible. This leaves one possibility: Humans and other created things were created by a being which is itself not created. So, we come away with the understanding that God alone is the Creator of all that exists. This also means that God is Eternal, with no beginning and no end – thus it makes logical sense that He would be the one who created the universe and all that is in it. He is Ever living, Self Subsisting, Self sufficient – Traits unique to Allah alone. Allah is able to do all things and He is above implied attributes that make Him no longer God. Thus coming up with absurd demands, questions and comments about Him only manifests the questioner’s inability to perceive who God really is.

 

 

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On March 30, 2017 at 8:39 AM, shiaman14 said:

 

Have you noticed that Hollywood never creates a good-looking alien? Whether it is Star Wars, Star Trek, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc - we can't even seem to fathom a species that looks better than us.

I wouldn't mind being an eight foot tall blue Lynx  like " we" were supposed to be in " Avatar" a.k.a. " Pocahontas in Space".

 

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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31 minutes ago, David66 said:

 

The crux of most of the arguments presented seem to be "All that I see around me in nature is proof of God's existence and substantiates my religious beliefs."

 

 

Personally, I think everything I see around me has other explanations for existence as well. If you believe in free will, then a perfect God must be perfectly hidden.

It's  a choice I make to believe.

So aliens wouldn't make any difference to me.

Assuming " niceness ", I would be curious to find out what they believed, if anything.

Edited by LeftCoastMom
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27 minutes ago, David66 said:

I think the alien, if they were nice aliens, would simply look at you and smile and ask "But who created God?"

Then you reply, "nobody". 

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Sure, I am as certain about God as I am certain about the earth being round(ish).

A higher being and the existence of God are independent. Also, unless the higher being brings about facts that we are not aware off, it would hard to convince us otherwise.

Light travels at a certain speed. I may say it travels at 1080km/hr when in reality it travels 1080million km/hr. Fact is it still travels 

So I can have faulty reasoning for believing in Allah but it won't change the fact that God exists. 

On the one hand you are certain that God exists but on the other hand your reasoning could be faulty.  What makes you believe that god exists with certitude then if it isn't through reason?

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28 minutes ago, Bazzi_ said:

 

 

But we already have the answer to that, don't we David? In Islam, we are told there is life outside of earth, in the universe and beyond That god is the creator and sustainer of all these life forms, in all worlds. It would be foolish to think that we humans are the only one among the zillions and zillions of galaxies. Aristotle and Plato, the fathers of logic, believed that God must exist, and that all things must have a beginning – except God. Plato argued that the design of creation must have a designer. While he may have been from a time before modern science he is still viewed as one of the most logical thinkers in history. Ask yourself using logic and reason,  -Is it possible that humans were created from nothing and by nothing? Would this not violate reason? How can something come from nothing and also nothing comes from something? -Did humans create themselves? Is this logical? One must already exist in order to create one’s self. But in order to be created, one must first not exist! -So, humans must be created by something already in existence. In order for this to happen, there must be an infinite regression of causes which leads to humans not being in existence. If C1 was created by C2 and C2 by C3 to CN, then C1 cannot exist unless C2 does and so on. And CN means that it has no beginning. Consequently C1 cannot exist. So if human existence is preceded by infinite amount of causes requiring infinite amount of time to take place, it is as saying that they will never take place. Human existence thus becomes impossible. Greek philosopher Aristotle argued similarly that infinite regression of the causes and effect chain was impossible. This leaves one possibility: Humans and other created things were created by a being which is itself not created. So, we come away with the understanding that God alone is the Creator of all that exists. This also means that God is Eternal, with no beginning and no end – thus it makes logical sense that He would be the one who created the universe and all that is in it. He is Ever living, Self Subsisting, Self sufficient – Traits unique to Allah alone. Allah is able to do all things and He is above implied attributes that make Him no longer God. Thus coming up with absurd demands, questions and comments about Him only manifests the questioner’s inability to perceive who God really is.

 

 

in response ^

Edited by eThErEaL

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      It means a national cover; that is, a woman must wear all her body so that she is protected as a gentle flower from the swordsmanship. 
      In Sura Noor, verse 31, too, a great deal of talk about hijab and honoring the unworthy look is spoken.  Concept and dimensions of hijab in the Quran The veil in the word means the barrier, curtain and cover. The use of this word is more than the meaning of the curtain. The word covers the concept that the curtain is a cover, but not every veil, but it is called the cover of the hijab through the back of the curtain. 
      The hijab, meaning ladies' Islamic cover, has two dimensions: a positive and negative one. The positive aspect of it, the necessity of covering the body and its diminutive dimension, is the forbiddenness of being revealed to the non-mahram; and these two dimensions should be together with each other so that Islamic veil can be realized; sometimes it may be the first dimension, but not the second dimension, in this case It can be said that Islamic hijab has been realized. 
      If, in the general sense, we call hijab any cover and impeding the receipt of sin, the hijab can have different types and different types. One kind of this veil is mental, intellectual, and spiritual; for example, belief in Islamic teachings, such as monotheism and prophecy, is one of the examples of the right veil, mental and spiritual, which can lead to sins and sins of mind and mind, such as infidelity And Shrek. 
      In addition, in the Qur'an, there are other types of hijab manifested in man's external behavior, such as hijab and cover in the eyes that men and women are advised in the face of the non-Mahram.  Purpose and philosophy of veil The main purpose of the ordinance of the laws in Islam is to God, which is obtained through the cultivation of self and piety:  إن أكرمكم عند الله أتقكم (حجرات; 13) is magnanimous and most honorable to you with God.
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      He is the God who raised among the people of Ammi (a people who did not know the reading and writing) a great prophet from the same people, to recite God's revelation to them, and purify them (from the ignorance of ignorance and ugly ethics), and the book of celibacy and wisdom In fact, before that, everyone was in a state of ignorance and misguidance. 
      The Holy Qur'an is used for the purpose of securing the divine commandment, the requirement of Islamic hijab, to achieve cultivation of the soul, purity, chastity, and purity. Verses like:  Let us convey the believers' eyes to the unworthy eyes and protect their bodies and their bodies, which is the best of their bodies and their purity.   Eye veil O my Apostle, tell the believing men to put their eyes in vain view.   قل للمؤمنات أضضضان من أبصارهن (نور; 31) Tell the messenger to the believing women to cover their eyes with an unwise look.   Hijab in speech Another type of hijab and cover of the Qur'an is the hijab of women's speech versus non-law:  Falla is a great deal of pain in your heart (parties; 32) So do not talk to men with thin, soft lips; lest you fall asleep (sickness and despair).   Behavioral Hijab Another type of hijab and cover of the Quran is the veil of women's behavior against the non-Islamic. It is instructed that women should not walk in ways that would attract unharmed attention by showing their ornaments.  And let our Lah al-Jahran be tempted to blow us away (Ibn. 31), and they should not foot to the ground to reveal the ankles and their hidden ornaments.
      Of the discussed topics, it is clearly used that the meaning of Islamic hijab is to cover and protect the coexistence of women with nonhuman men in different forms of behavior, such as how to cover, look, talk and walk. 
      Therefore, the veil and cover of a woman is also a constraint and an obstacle to nonhuman individuals who intend to infiltrate and capture the honor of others. There is also the same notion of banning and refusing the lexical roots of chastity;  Veil and chastity The two words "veil" and "chastity" are essentially the meaning of common denial and refusal. The difference between prohibiting and restraining hijab and chastity is the difference between appearance and inwardness; that is, the prohibition and inhibition in the veil is related to appearance, but the prohibition and inhibition in chastity is related to the inner and inner, because chastity is an internal state, However, given that the effect of appearance on the interior and the external impact on appearance is one of the general characteristics of man; therefore, between the veil and the apparent cover, and the chastity and inner restraint of man, is the effect and the mutual influence; so that whatever the veil and the covering The appearance and the better, this type of veil is more effective in enhancing and enhancing the inner and inner mood of chastity, and vice versa, the greater the inner and inner envy of the The veil will look better in the encounter with aliens.  Elderly Women's Hijab The Holy Quran has pointed to this impact in a subtle way. First, it allows elderly women to dress their clothes like a tent against a non-sanctuary without the intention of throwing themselves out, but ultimately says: "If they are sober, it even means clothes like tents." Not better.  And Al-Qawada'm Al-Nawa'ah Al-Naha'ah Al-Fayyid Allah Jinnah, the Prophet of Allah, the Exalted and the Most Merciful,
      In addition to the previous relationship, between the apparel cover and esoteric dignity, the relation between the sign and the sign holder is also; that is, the apparent hijab is a sign of a certain stage of esoteric dignity with the owner of the veil. Of course, this does not mean that every woman who wears a veil and a cover is necessarily of all levels of chastity.  Is hijab an obstacle to all social delinquency? Given this point of view, the answer to these forms and the doubts of those who, for the ineffectiveness of revealing the veil and the apparent cover, is to blame the offenses of some women with hijab, because the problem of these women, the weakness in the inner veil And the lack of strong faith and belief in the positive effects of hijab and apparent cover and has passed since the Islamic veil has a wide dimension, and one of its most important dimensions is the inner and inner veil of the person who faces sin and corruption , It enjoys inner convictions and faith; and, essentially, this veil of mind and ideology, as a foundation stone for other veils, including hijab and p It is apparent, because human thoughts and ideas form their behaviors. 
      Of course, just as hijab and overlays do not necessarily mean all chaos, chastity can not be imagined without observing the apparent cover. One can not deny a woman or a man who appears naked or half naked in public, because we said that the apparent cover is one of the signs and symbols of chastity, and between the amount of chastity and veil, the relationship of influence and affection There is mutual. Some consider the relationship of chastity and veil to be a kind of relationship between root and fruit; the veil, the fruit of chastity, and chastity are the roots of veil. Some people may have apparent veils, but they have not created extraneous chastity. This hijab is the only shell and appearance. On the other hand, people claim to be chastity, and they say, "I have a heart-warming heart, God works with hearts," they entertain themselves; such humans must, in their minds, have to point to the essential thing that is within the pure, external It will cleanse and never purify the heart, it will not induce the fruitless fruit of the wilderness.  See also: Hijab with Fatima Zahra  References: Interpretation books  https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdaneshnameh.roshd.ir%2Fmavara%2Fmavara-index.php%3Fpage%3D%D8%AD%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%A8%2B%D8%AF%D8%B1%2B%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%A2%D9%86%26SSOReturnPage%3DCheck%26Rand%3D0&edit-text= http://daneshnameh.roshd.ir/mavara/mavara-index.php?page=حجاب+در+قرآن&SSOReturnPage=Check&Rand=0
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