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shiaman14

If Aliens exist...

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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

This is useless to compare your I.Q with anyone other. Since there is nothing, so why are you talking about a thing which does not exist. This is itself a comment due to low I.Q bro, I am sorry to say that. 

The very possibility (that there could be someone to completely show us how inadequate our I.Q. is and as a consequence demonstrate to us how silly our beliefs are) has HUGE implications for our epistemology.   For one, merely accepting such a possibility implies that you are uncertain about your beliefs because you are indirectly saying that there is a possibility you could be wrong.  And this is a problem which I personally cannot live with.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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7 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Not sure what you are trying to say.  What is your belief based on?  Are you saying your belief is independent of reason?

Reason is a very important part of it, but another person might use reason to come to a very different conclusion, so if another person or alien being reasons differently and reaches different conclusions from the same evidence, that's for them not me. I would be happy to discuss our different beliefs with them, but even if they have more advanced minds then ours, their conclusions are not our conclusions. 

If they have different evidence, that's a different matter. I'd be interested in seeing that, for sure. 

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3 hours ago, magma said:

If you believe in God, then the statement "God ultimately guides" is sufficient. You are free from the burden of stacking humans on the bottom, aliens above them, and whatever else above that, and so on. 

What is the basis of your belief? How do YOU believe in God?  

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

conclusions

 

3 minutes ago, notme said:

Reason is a very important part of it, but another person might use reason to come to a very different conclusion, so if another person or alien being reasons differently and reaches different conclusions from the same evidence, that's for them not me. I would be happy to discuss our different beliefs with them, but even if they have more advanced minds then ours, their conclusions are not our conclusions. 

If they have different evidence, that's a different matter. I'd be interested in seeing that, for sure. 

So, if reason is a major basis for your belief, what are the less important or minor basis for your beliefs?

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8 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

 

So, if reason is a major basis for your belief, what are the less important or minor basis for your beliefs?

I don't know. It just feels right. Is that ok?

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Just now, eThErEaL said:

Not for me.

Obviously my feeling isn't going to convince you, that's not the point. Along with reason, a bit of feeling is enough for me. 

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12 minutes ago, notme said:

Obviously my feeling isn't going to convince you, that's not the point. Along with reason, a bit of feeling is enough for me. 

What is the feeling based on?

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Possible? Yes.

Provable? No.

kittens over humans? But they are Allah's creation. I am talking about every single alien pic or character you have ever seen. Show me one that is not a perverse version of humanoid or another animal.

Yes.

I am already on SC.

So are you saying we can not reason Allah, only believe in him?

 

 

So it is possible you could be wrong in your reasoning for God's existence?

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

The very possibility (that there could be someone to completely show us how inadequate our I.Q. is and as a consequence demonstrate to us how silly our beliefs are) has HUGE implications for our epistemology.   For one, merely accepting such a possibility implies that you are uncertain about your beliefs because you are indirectly saying that there is a possibility you could be wrong.  And this is a problem which I personally cannot live with.  

But what if that same someone with a much higher IQ proves the existence of Allah. So the conversation could go both ways.

Accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being is not the same as accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being that can prove / disprove the existence of God.

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19 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So it is possible you could be wrong in your reasoning for God's existence?

The existence of God and my reasoning for the existence of God are not directly related.

I could believe that Allah exists to keep me alive only. Reasoning would be wrong but the belief in Allah's existence would be right.

 

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45 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

What is the feeling based on?

I already admitted that I don't know. 

Humans innately have a creator-concept. We're made that way. 

Here are a couple internet articles. I encourage you to search for more if you're interested.

https://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/08/evolutionary_st/

http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982

The research paper that I found was only available for a fee.

Edited by notme

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7 minutes ago, notme said:

I already admitted that I don't know. 

Humans innately have a creator-concept. We're made that way. I'll see if I can find an article describing the research. (I posted about it here before.) 

 

I agree. It is a fact that man has always felt the need to bow to a "supreme" being. In the absence of the knowledge of such a being, man creates objects and worships it instead. 

But worship is inherent in man's nature. 

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39 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

But what if that same someone with a much higher IQ proves the existence of Allah. So the conversation could go both ways.

Accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being is not the same as accepting the possibility of a higher intelligence being that can prove / disprove the existence of God.

Sure.  The question I am really asking is wether or not we are certain about God.  Because if we are certain then it becomes impossible for a being, no matter how great it's I.Q. Is, to make us think otherwise.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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38 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

The existence of God and my reasoning for the existence of God are not directly related.

I could believe that Allah exists to keep me alive only. Reasoning would be wrong but the belief in Allah's existence would be right.

 

So what is the difference between the two for you?

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16 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Sure.  The question I am really asking is wether or not we are certain about God.  Because if we are certain then it becomes impossible for a being, no matter how great it's I.Q. Is, to make us think otherwise.  

Sure, I am as certain about God as I am certain about the earth being round(ish).

A higher being and the existence of God are independent. Also, unless the higher being brings about facts that we are not aware off, it would hard to convince us otherwise.

16 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So what is the difference between the two for you?

Light travels at a certain speed. I may say it travels at 1080km/hr when in reality it travels 1080million km/hr. Fact is it still travels 

So I can have faulty reasoning for believing in Allah but it won't change the fact that God exists. 

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Hello,

The crux of most of the arguments presented seem to be "All that I see around me in nature is proof of God's existence and substantiates my religious beliefs."

I think the alien, if they were nice aliens, would simply look at you and smile and ask "But who created God?"

All the Best,

David

 

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

So what is the difference between the two for you?

 

19 minutes ago, David66 said:

Hello,

The crux of most of the arguments presented seem to be "All that I see around me in nature is proof of God's existence and substantiates my religious beliefs."

I think the alien, if they were nice aliens, would simply look at you and smile and ask "But who created God?"

All the Best,

David

 

 

But we already have the answer to that, don't we David? In Islam, we are told there is life outside of earth, in the universe and beyond That god is the creator and sustainer of all these life forms, in all worlds. It would be foolish to think that we humans are the only one among the zillions and zillions of galaxies. Aristotle and Plato, the fathers of logic, believed that God must exist, and that all things must have a beginning – except God. Plato argued that the design of creation must have a designer. While he may have been from a time before modern science he is still viewed as one of the most logical thinkers in history. Ask yourself using logic and reason,  -Is it possible that humans were created from nothing and by nothing? Would this not violate reason? How can something come from nothing and also nothing comes from something? -Did humans create themselves? Is this logical? One must already exist in order to create one’s self. But in order to be created, one must first not exist! -So, humans must be created by something already in existence. In order for this to happen, there must be an infinite regression of causes which leads to humans not being in existence. If C1 was created by C2 and C2 by C3 to CN, then C1 cannot exist unless C2 does and so on. And CN means that it has no beginning. Consequently C1 cannot exist. So if human existence is preceded by infinite amount of causes requiring infinite amount of time to take place, it is as saying that they will never take place. Human existence thus becomes impossible. Greek philosopher Aristotle argued similarly that infinite regression of the causes and effect chain was impossible. This leaves one possibility: Humans and other created things were created by a being which is itself not created. So, we come away with the understanding that God alone is the Creator of all that exists. This also means that God is Eternal, with no beginning and no end – thus it makes logical sense that He would be the one who created the universe and all that is in it. He is Ever living, Self Subsisting, Self sufficient – Traits unique to Allah alone. Allah is able to do all things and He is above implied attributes that make Him no longer God. Thus coming up with absurd demands, questions and comments about Him only manifests the questioner’s inability to perceive who God really is.

 

 

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On March 30, 2017 at 8:39 AM, shiaman14 said:

 

Have you noticed that Hollywood never creates a good-looking alien? Whether it is Star Wars, Star Trek, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc - we can't even seem to fathom a species that looks better than us.

I wouldn't mind being an eight foot tall blue Lynx  like " we" were supposed to be in " Avatar" a.k.a. " Pocahontas in Space".

 

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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31 minutes ago, David66 said:

 

The crux of most of the arguments presented seem to be "All that I see around me in nature is proof of God's existence and substantiates my religious beliefs."

 

 

Personally, I think everything I see around me has other explanations for existence as well. If you believe in free will, then a perfect God must be perfectly hidden.

It's  a choice I make to believe.

So aliens wouldn't make any difference to me.

Assuming " niceness ", I would be curious to find out what they believed, if anything.

Edited by LeftCoastMom
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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Sure, I am as certain about God as I am certain about the earth being round(ish).

A higher being and the existence of God are independent. Also, unless the higher being brings about facts that we are not aware off, it would hard to convince us otherwise.

Light travels at a certain speed. I may say it travels at 1080km/hr when in reality it travels 1080million km/hr. Fact is it still travels 

So I can have faulty reasoning for believing in Allah but it won't change the fact that God exists. 

On the one hand you are certain that God exists but on the other hand your reasoning could be faulty.  What makes you believe that god exists with certitude then if it isn't through reason?

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28 minutes ago, Bazzi_ said:

 

 

But we already have the answer to that, don't we David? In Islam, we are told there is life outside of earth, in the universe and beyond That god is the creator and sustainer of all these life forms, in all worlds. It would be foolish to think that we humans are the only one among the zillions and zillions of galaxies. Aristotle and Plato, the fathers of logic, believed that God must exist, and that all things must have a beginning – except God. Plato argued that the design of creation must have a designer. While he may have been from a time before modern science he is still viewed as one of the most logical thinkers in history. Ask yourself using logic and reason,  -Is it possible that humans were created from nothing and by nothing? Would this not violate reason? How can something come from nothing and also nothing comes from something? -Did humans create themselves? Is this logical? One must already exist in order to create one’s self. But in order to be created, one must first not exist! -So, humans must be created by something already in existence. In order for this to happen, there must be an infinite regression of causes which leads to humans not being in existence. If C1 was created by C2 and C2 by C3 to CN, then C1 cannot exist unless C2 does and so on. And CN means that it has no beginning. Consequently C1 cannot exist. So if human existence is preceded by infinite amount of causes requiring infinite amount of time to take place, it is as saying that they will never take place. Human existence thus becomes impossible. Greek philosopher Aristotle argued similarly that infinite regression of the causes and effect chain was impossible. This leaves one possibility: Humans and other created things were created by a being which is itself not created. So, we come away with the understanding that God alone is the Creator of all that exists. This also means that God is Eternal, with no beginning and no end – thus it makes logical sense that He would be the one who created the universe and all that is in it. He is Ever living, Self Subsisting, Self sufficient – Traits unique to Allah alone. Allah is able to do all things and He is above implied attributes that make Him no longer God. Thus coming up with absurd demands, questions and comments about Him only manifests the questioner’s inability to perceive who God really is.

 

 

in response ^

Edited by eThErEaL

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