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31 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Opine [in comic form]: Hey, :einstein:s, the sea ain't rising, the LAND lS SlNKlNG !

It appears to be both, but sea level rise isn't the only issue related to changes in global weather patterns. The severity and frequency of major storms is increasing, as is the severity and frequency of drought. Groundwater resources are being depleted (thus your land subsidence) and instead of infiltrating back into the ground, rainwater is rapidly storm sewered to the nearest major water body, I'm most cases absolutely untreated. 

Remember a few months ago when the global seed vault was flooded? That happened because of an unusually warm winter melting the permafrost. If humanity and nature compete, humanity will never win. We might have some short term victories, but nature always wins out in the end. Better to live sustainably. If we don't quite know how, it's best to at least try to learn. 

It isn't our creation, we don't have the right to consume it all up without regard for the people downstream or the future generations. 

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:dwarf:

33 minutes ago, notme said:

It appears to be both, but sea level rise isn't the only issue related to changes in global weather patterns. The severity and frequency of major storms is increasing, as is the severity and frequency of drought. Groundwater resources are being depleted (thus your land subsidence) and instead of infiltrating[deep percolating] back into the ground, rainwater is rapidly storm sewered to the nearest major water body, I'm most cases absolutely untreated. [ ?  Rainwater has to be "treated" ? ]

Remember a few months ago when the global seed vault was flooded? [ Yes, ] That happened because of an unusually warm winter melting the permafrost.[ ? ] If humanity and nature compete, humanity will never win. We might have some short term victories, but nature always wins out in the end. Better to live sustainably. If we don't quite know how, it's best to at least try to learn. 

It isn't our creation, we don't have the right to consume it all up without regard for the people downstream or the future generations. [ inserted as an emotional plea ? ]

As l remember offhand, the Norwegian seed vault was located in a hillside. So, the site was poorly chosen. There are other seed vaults, public and private.

Question: Does groundwater recharging figure into your opinion/analysis?

Edited by hasanhh

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26 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Rainwater has to be "treated" ? ]

Yes, rainwater that has run through all kinds of contaminants like fertilizers, pesticides, leaked motor oil, road salt, even asphalt needs treatment. It's dirty. 

Trust me, I've tested it myself. It's toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms. 

26 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

inserted as an emotional plea ? ]

Guilty as charged.

26 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

As l remember offhand, the Norwegian seed vault was located in a hillside. So, the site was poorly chosen. There are other seed vaults, public and private.

I don't remember a hillside being a major contributing factor in its failure. As I recall it was buried in permafrost, which thawed. There are other seed vaults, but this one contains the most diverse population.

26 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Question: Does groundwater recharging figure into your opinion/analysis?

I don't know of a direct correlation between groundwater recharge and climate impact, but the same issue which impedes groundwater recharge also increases temperature - a great deal locally through heat island effect, and probably globally through deforestation. 

However, groundwater depletion is an important environmental issue and the time will come that we're going to have to mitigate the damage we've already done. It is through percolation through the soil that nature cleans and mineralizes the rainwater to make it suitable for use by living things. Also, the faster flow of urban runoff increases incidence of flooding and causes severe erosion in ditches and channels. 

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Salam @notme

l did some research/reading on Spitsbergen and the Seed Vault.

http://www.snopes.com/doomsday-seed-vault-flooded/ 

l also found a little on Plataberget Mountain -"plata" = 'plate"- because the mountain is flat on top. lt also has gravely sides. Look at some images of the entrance way when there is a light dusting of snow and the gullies show. One is next-to/near to the left of the entrance and curves towards it. This is why the entrance way flooded, not the vault. Although Spitsbergen has permafrost -ground frozen two or more years-  there is none on this gravel. lt is either bare or snow covered, depending on the time of year.

The vault also didn't rely entirely on the local natural cold because the vault has its own refrigeration units.

And more than this, the vault was poorly located because Svalbard faces the Gulf Stream, which is why the 78 degrees North Latitude site is so warm and usually not well below freezing.

l searched: Gulf Stream + Spitsbergen; Gulf Stream + Svalbard;  Plataberget Mountain; Doomsday Seed Vault; climate and rainfall in the area; and news articles.

My conclusion: as written above AND the reporting was another Climate Change Hoax.

You came from the Eastern US. Didn't you ever have a door, even your front door, frozen shut?

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7 hours ago, hasanhh said:

You came from the Eastern US. Didn't you ever have a door, even your front door, frozen shut?

No. I've had snow piled so high the door wouldn't open, but my house door has never frozen shut. Maybe that's the sort of thing that happens in flatter areas. 

------

Look, let's work from the assumption that global climate change is a natural occurrence, part of the normal cycle on earth. (Because it is happening, so we can't pretend it's not.) What is hurt by trying to reduce or prevent air pollution? Cleaner air is good either way. 

Maybe climate change is a natural process, maybe scientists are wrong, but I see no reason why they would perpetuate an actual hoax. 

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On 7/25/2017 at 8:42 AM, notme said:

------

Look, let's work from the assumption that global climate change is a natural occurrence, part of the normal cycle on earth. (Because it is happening, so we can't pretend it's not.) What is hurt by trying to reduce or prevent air pollution? Cleaner air is good either way. 

Maybe climate change is a natural process, maybe scientists are wrong, but I see no reason why they would perpetuate an actual hoax. 

"normal cycle" : Just what l had in grade skool 60 years ago. We are in the post-Ice Age Warming.

".... pollution. Cleaner air ..."  :  Agree.  l use to sneeze in the 50s, 60's and 70s when l went into the city. l always knew it was the city air back then.

"...why they would perpetuate an actual hoax." : 1] to get tenure, 2] if tenured, to keep from being fired on some pretext, 3] it is the current cause celeb, 4] as l wrote on @myouvial's thread "Depopulation of 95% of the World by 2030" , this is a pinko-progressive "Big Lie" that gov't goes along with as they go along with Wall Street sales pitches.

Comic Opine:

Ahhhhh, :dwarf: !!!!       l am in agreement with a self-confessed tree-hugger.

:cry: ohhhhh,  :sorry: The Shame,  :sorry: The Shame

:furious: <---  The ONLY Psychiatric Therapy that can help me get over this.

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On 7/26/2017 at 0:35 AM, hasanhh said:

as l wrote on @myouvial's thread "Depopulation of 95% of the World by 2030" , this is a pinko-progressive "Big Lie" that gov't goes along with as they go along with Wall Street sales pitches.

Any extremes are usually wrong. The extreme right wing conspiracy theory that the libs want to kill off humanity with their environmental regulations and charitable work are more wrong, even to the point of absurd. Just like the flat earth nutjobs, I find it hard to believe anyone actually believes such nonsense.

But when it comes to global climate change, even if it's proven to be false, all the actions suggested to combat man-made climate change are good for the earth anyway. If the climate change deniers set policy and are proven wrong, our children and grandchildren are going to pay the price. If the climate change believers are proven wrong, our children and grandchildren might laugh at our foolishness, but they'll still appreciate clean air and water.

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@notme  OK, so far. Yet one item l want to add about the ice shelf break-offs.

As we did in grade school, place an ice cube in a glass, mark the water level, after the ice melts, the level is the same.

OR, use a large bowl, put is several cubes, same result.

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On 7/26/2017 at 1:36 AM, hasanhh said:

@notme  OK, so far. Yet one item l want to add about the ice shelf break-offs.

As we did in grade school, place an ice cube in a glass, mark the water level, after the ice melts, the level is the same.

OR, use a large bowl, put is several cubes, same result.

That works for sea ice, but land based glaciers and permafrost melting will increase the volume (and decrease salinity?) of the seas. It's like setting ice cubes in a funnel atop the glass and letting it melt into the glass. 

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On 7/26/2017 at 1:51 AM, notme said:

That works for sea ice, but land based glaciers and permafrost melting will increase the volume (and decrease salinity?) of the seas. It's like setting ice cubes in a funnel atop the glass and letting it melt into the glass. 

Look up Glacier Nat'l Park. As l remember off-hand, in the 1850s there were ~150 glaciers. Now there are ____.  l personally think, that this area was an lce-Pack 'central' as Ontario was for the lce Age glaciation. lt lasted longer because of its higher elevation.

Permafrost melts into muck and swamp. Siberia is a good example.

The funnel analogy l do not agree with, especially in view of deep percolation. Similarly, are global atmospheric moisture levels included in these models.? Then there are vanishing seas: Lake Chad, Aral Sea, Caspian Sea, that lake in western China, ...

l figured it out one time years ago. using the info l dug up, lf we filled Chott el-Jerid, Qattar Depression and the Dead Sea you'll drop global sea level over an inch.

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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/28/climate/more-frequent-extreme-summer-heat.html

Not new data, but dramatic graphs. 

It still remains to establish that the temperature change is human caused. As it stands now, I know of no feasible solution. I guess we adapt or die. 

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56 minutes ago, notme said:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/28/climate/more-frequent-extreme-summer-heat.html

Not new data, but dramatic graphs. 

It still remains to establish that the temperature change is human caused. As it stands now, I know of no feasible solution. I guess we adapt or die. 

ln a short quip, climate diatribes have -as far as l know- never included the molten rock below the Earth's crust.

A few years ago, the point of the Earth's North Magnetic Pole rapidly moved westward at the same time the Artic Ocean warmed enough to affect the ice. Last year, ice off Siberia was thicker than normal, and the Pole has barely moved.

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18 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

A few years ago, the point of the Earth's North Magnetic Pole rapidly moved westward at the same time the Artic Ocean warmed enough to affect the ice. Last year, ice off Siberia was thicker than normal, and the Pole has barely moved.

That is an interesting correlation. The magnetic pole is caused by movement in the metallic inner layers. I'm not sure what impact it's variation would have on climate and weather patterns, but it's not unlikely that it has some.

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On 8/5/2017 at 2:30 AM, hasanhh said:

Supplementary Question:

Why does algae make "clean air" ?

Photosynthesis.

But algal blooms are bad.

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Done some reading, one thing l already posted.

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 0:06 PM, notme said:

Well, glaciers and ice caps are becoming smaller. That's quantified. And there also is subsidence caused by misuse of groundwater resources. Obviously subsidence is human caused and we don't really know the long term effects. 

Noted 19May, sorry

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:57 PM, hasanhh said:

That answer is why l referred to New Orleans. Water was continually pumped out of the ground until the city was mostly below sea level.***Below

 

Added from reading link:

l forgot about the San Joaquin Valley as an illustration.

The flooding pictures are reminiscent of Venice, are they not?

Thanks

Too ...whatever...to keep the pumps fixed.   :dwarf:"Gov't 4 U "

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/08/floods_blame_sewerage_water_bo.html 

 

Another note: l mentioned 20July that in the 70s there was hype about a New Ice Age. l heard on the radio Tuesday that this was a cover story in NewsWeek (1979)

Added: Red Flags at geographic South Pole showing ice movement:

blog-day11-6.jpg 

Edited by hasanhh
Red Flags for Previous Poles

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14 hours ago, notme said:

^ Maybe Greenland will be nice once the rest if the world is no longer habitable. 

lt may be the World's largest island, but that scenario will make things really crowded.

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43 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

lt may be the World's largest island, but that scenario will make things really crowded.

Nah, because only the rich people will be able to go there. Poor folks will just adapt or die. Maybe we will become Morlocks and they will become Eloi. 

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https://sputniknews.com/environment/201708201056625085-global-warming-danger/

NASA has recorded a warmest July ever. And they think the increase is man made. Now the people who live in temperate or cool climates may not notice this slight increase, but in the tropics, oh man. The weather app on my mobile has been showing a "heat wave" notice since the last month or so, constantly. It further shows the temperature in a different way, like, say its 29 degrees celcius in the morning at 9 a.m. it also says "feels like 36 deg C" and that it does.

I have a couple of theories of my own. I remember there were measurements of upper atmospheric ozone layer depletion levels around the globe and scientists feared that if kept using CFC gasses in air conditioning they will keep depleting. Without ozone's protective layer which mitigates the effect of UV radiation in the sunlight, skin and other cancers will run rampant, they warned. Then at some point in the new century the talk about ozone stopped altogether. Perhaps they don't want to disclose that the ozone is depleted. The sun light most of the year feels intolerable to me at least. So the unbridled UV rads hitting earth surface may be adding to the global warming.

My plan is to develop (if I have to) energy storage means for photovoltaic system at my home, expand it, and insulate my house. Build a basement in the backyard. This year I took time to repaint to white and re-insulate my car and upgraded its air conditioning while sold the children's car and bought them a new, tougher and luxurious one.

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