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I plan on debating an Ahmadi Muslim. I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find the Hadith that talked about fake Imam Mahdis coming to deceive us. I could use that against him. On that note, does anyone else have some pointers that can help me debate him? I believe he may argue about whether or not Miraj was a physical or mental ascension and if Prophet Isa already came down or not. They seem pretty much Muslim except for believing that Mirza Ghulaam Ahmad is Imam Mahdi (na'uzubillah), and this guy seems pretty respectful and is even  learning about Wilayat and Shiism. I want to guide him back. 

Jazakallah

Edited by alimr313

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I can only have draw with one of my friend who is Ahmadi (i told him if he was Imam Mahdi a.s., then everyone on earth will know him (his virtue and excellence)), but in the last farewell he gave me his Al-Qur'an version.

He says 'part of qur'an (do not remember which ayat) which says about 'ma salabuhum', it means do not die on salib/cross.

I do not believe but i can not prove.

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I can only have draw with one of my friend who is Ahmadi (i told him if he was Imam Mahdi a.s., then everyone on earth will know him (his virtue and excellence)), but in the last farewell he gave me his Al-Qur'an version.

He says 'part of qur'an (do not remember which ayat) which says about 'ma salabuhum', it means do not die on salib/cross.

I do not believe but i can not prove.

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4 hours ago, alimr313 said:

I plan on debating an Ahmadi Muslim. I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find the Hadith that talked about fake Imam Mahdis coming to deceive us. I could use that against him. On that note, does anyone else have some pointers that can help me debate him? I believe he may argue about whether or not Miraj was a physical or mental ascension and if Prophet Isa already came down or not. They seem pretty much Muslim except for believing that Mirza Ghulaam Ahmad is Imam Mahdi (na'uzubillah), and this guy seems pretty respectful and is even  learning about Wilayat and Shiism. I want to guide him back. 

Jazakallah

1. Character of Prophets. They are all pious, honest and they do what they say and never retreat from what they have said. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani first called him to be Imam Mehdi and then called himself Jesus Christ, so, he was confused about him and went back and forth from what he said. Secondly, everyone knew that he was a famous Sunni scholar who debated with people of the book during the time of British India, and contended them being representative of Islam. Soon, after it, he was approached by someone and called himself to be Imam Mehdi and then Jesus (nauzbillah). So, it shows he deviated from his path.

2. Secondly, for Imam Mehdi a.s, even according to Sunni sources, it is written that he will be from the lineage of Prophet and descendant of Lady Fatima Zahra a.s. But as opposed to this, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani lineage can be traced back to Mirza Hadi Beg, a descendant of the Mughal Barlas tribe and Mughals are not descendants of Prophets. It is the only reason that Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani reversed back and called himself as Jesus a.s.

3. Even for becoming Jesus a.s, one has to be of Israelite built and His face should be illuminating like the face of Israelite because Prophet Jesus a.s was born in Palestine in Bani Israel. But you can see that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was Mughal Barlas, so in what way will Ahmedi person can argue on this issue.

I think, these are enough points to prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was neither Imam Mehdi nor Prophet Jesus, why should we go into detail about Miraj and Miracles because earlier points are enough to prove him wrong. Even if you want that I can describe them too but I think that no need will arise for that. 

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I debated an ahmadi once, my suggestion to you would be to prepare for their following argument:

they claim that their leader, mirza ghulaam ahmad [EDIT] never claimed to be Isa, Musa, Rasool e khuda and Imam Mahdi (peace be upon them all), rather someone who returned the message that they brought back to the people. this is a subtle difference and one which non shia are completely unable to respond to, since the 4 sunni imams claimed the exact same thing.

I defeated the ahmadi by focusing purely on wilayat of Ameerul Momineen Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) and reliable tafsir of the quran regarding wilayat such as [5.55], aya mubahila, tathir. ghadeer and so on. I would suggest this be your focus too. the ahmadi will undoubtedly try and divert the debate towards the reformation/ restoration of islam as Allah intended, so make sure you focus on wilayat. it will be something they cannot defeat. my argument was that the true islam is maintained through the unbroken chain of wilayat, and then the proofs of Imam Mahdi (as) prolonged ghaybah. 

[Edit]

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سبحان الله

Salam Alaikum,

I ask you to read this with patience.

Source: irshad.org

The Death of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani

(In light of Qadiani / Ahmadi record)

Say: "Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed. This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then, We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve."
(The Holy Quran, Yunus, 10:69-70)

For years, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani attributed outrageous lies to Allah (SWT): he claimed to be Mehdi, the Promised Messiah, a reincarnation of Muhammad (SAW), a new improved Prophet, Hindu Lord, and a manifestation of God. He said he was in direct communication with Allah and claimed that his revelations were divine in nature.  It is fitting that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì made his death a testimony to his falsehood.  His sudden death proved his following prophecies to have been untrue:

- His prophecy that he (Mirza) will live to be 80 or more years old;
(He died when he was only 68 year old.)

- His prophecy that he would marry Muhammadi Begum, before his death;
(He never did marry Muhammadi Begum.)

- The claim (and Mubahala challenge) that Moulvi Sanaullah of  Amristar, his arch opponent who had openly called him a liar and an impostor, will die before him;
("The liar will die first" - Mirza died first!)

- His prophecy that Dr. Abdul Hakim, one of his opponents who had called him a liar during an open debate, will die within Mirza's life time;
(he said "The liar will die first".  But, Mirza died first!)

- The prophecy (and Mubahala challenge) that Mr. Abdullah Atham, a Christian who had debated with Mirza Ghulam and put him to shame, will die before him;
(Mirza had said: "the liar will die first" - Yet, Mirza died first!)

- His revelation that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì will bestow upon him a great new son, a sign of Allah (SWT)'s presence and proof of his prophethood;
(Mirza died without having another son.)

- His claim that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì had revealed to him that he would marry many more virtuous women;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)

- His prophecy that he (Mirza) will marry a widow, before his death;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)

- His prophecy that he will die in Mekkah or Medina.
(Mirza died in the city of Lahor; he never saw Mekkah or Medina.)

Indeed, Mirza Ghulam's death was a sign of Allah (SWT)'s displeasure with him.  He died from the disease he feared the most in a wretched condition and in utter disgrace, as he himself had stated:

"To turn out a liar in his own prophecy is biggest disgrace of disgraces."
   (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 382)

Let's review the record of Mirza's death as recounted by his closest followers and actual witnesses to his death.

Bashir Ahmad, the son of Mirza Ghulam, wrote in his biography:

"My mother informed me that 'the first attack of looseness of bowels upon the Promised Messiah occurred when he was at his dining room table.  Later, I started pressing his legs and he lay in comfort and slept and soon I too slept. After a short while, he again felt the call of nature and he used the bathroom a couple of times without awakening me, After this he felt very weak; he shook me up and laid down on my bed.  I recommenced pressing. In a few minutes he told me to go to bed but I refused and continued to press.  Once again he had an urge and, being too weak to go to the lavatory, I made arrangement for him close to the bed.  He sat down and relieved himself.  Next, he laid himself back on my bed and I started pressing again. His weakness grew intense; he had another motion, accompanied this time by vomiting.  This paralyzed him so much that when trying to lay back on the bed, he fell on his back and hit his head on the bed post.  His condition alarmed me...'."
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 1, P. 11-12; Sirat-ul-Mehdi, P.109)

Mirza Ghulam's father in law, Mir Nasir Nawab, recorded in his autobiography:

"The night his holiness fell ill, I was sleeping in my room.  When his illness grew severe, they woke me up.  I went over to his holiness and found him in great pain.  He addressed me saying: 'I have been stricken with cholera.'  After this, he did not utter a single intelligible and coherent word till he died on Monday, after ten O'clock in the morning."
    (Hayat-i-Nasir, P. 14)

Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah (SWT)'s wrath on mankind for their wrong doing! It is fitting that his last words were the admission that he had been stricken with the disease he was so fearful of. The witnesses present at his bed side recorded:

"Huzoor (Mirza Ghulam) could not talk two hours before death.   Dr. Mirza Yaqoob Baig and Dr. Syed Mohammad Hussei Shah were the attending physicians. Huzoor asked for paper and wrote on it: 'I have too much dryness.  I can't talk.' and some other words which could not be read."
      (Al-Fazl, Vol. 25, No. 274, November 24, 1937)

"As his condition became precarious, we stayed by him and continued treatment, but his pulse stopped by 10:15 A.M., on the 26th May, 1908 he breathed his last."
      (Al-Hakam, Mary 28, 1908)

We can not imagine what Mirza Ghulam might have felt when the hour of death approached and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì shut his mouth and tongue so that he could neither repent (proclaim Kalima) nor utter any more lies.

And who can be more unjust than he who invents a lie against Allah, or says: "I have received inspiration," whereas he is not inspired in anything; and who says, "I will reveal the like of what Allah has revealed."  And if you could but see when the wrong-doers are in the agonies of death, while the angels are stretching forth their hands (saying): "Deliver your soul!  This day you shall be recompensed with the torment of degradation because of what you used to utter against Allah other than the truth.  And you used to reject His signs (revelations) with disrespect!"
(The Holy Quran, Al-Anam, 6:93)

Mirza Ghulam's death irrefutably proves that the prophecies he attributed to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì were fabricated by him and his associates. The irony is that, to impress his followers, he had proclaimed his prophecies to be the ultimate sign of his truthfulness and stated:

"If what I have said does not happen exactly, I am prepared for every punishment.  My face should be blackened and I should be hanged.  I swear by the Mighty Allah that what I have said will happen. It must happen.  It is possible that the earth may be changed for another earth and the sky may be replaced by another sky, but it is not possible for God's word to change -- prepare for me a cross if my falsehood is exposed and curse me more than the Satans and the evil persons are cursed."
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 293; Jang-i-Maqaddas, P. 188)

"To Judge my truthfulness or lies, there is no better test than my prophecies."
  
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 288)

We ask Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì to deliver all sincere seekers of the truth from the clutches of the Qadiani leadership.

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1 hour ago, Kazemi said:

سبحان الله

Salam Alaikum,

I ask you to read this with patience.

Source: irshad.org

The Death of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani

(In light of Qadiani / Ahmadi record)

Say: "Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed. This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then, We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve."
(The Holy Quran, Yunus, 10:69-70)

For years, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani attributed outrageous lies to Allah (SWT): he claimed to be Mehdi, the Promised Messiah, a reincarnation of Muhammad (SAW), a new improved Prophet, Hindu Lord, and a manifestation of God. He said he was in direct communication with Allah and claimed that his revelations were divine in nature.  It is fitting that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì made his death a testimony to his falsehood.  His sudden death proved his following prophecies to have been untrue:

- His prophecy that he (Mirza) will live to be 80 or more years old;
(He died when he was only 68 year old.)

- His prophecy that he would marry Muhammadi Begum, before his death;
(He never did marry Muhammadi Begum.)

- The claim (and Mubahala challenge) that Moulvi Sanaullah of  Amristar, his arch opponent who had openly called him a liar and an impostor, will die before him;
("The liar will die first" - Mirza died first!)

- His prophecy that Dr. Abdul Hakim, one of his opponents who had called him a liar during an open debate, will die within Mirza's life time;
(he said "The liar will die first".  But, Mirza died first!)

- The prophecy (and Mubahala challenge) that Mr. Abdullah Atham, a Christian who had debated with Mirza Ghulam and put him to shame, will die before him;
(Mirza had said: "the liar will die first" - Yet, Mirza died first!)

- His revelation that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì will bestow upon him a great new son, a sign of Allah (SWT)'s presence and proof of his prophethood;
(Mirza died without having another son.)

- His claim that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì had revealed to him that he would marry many more virtuous women;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)

- His prophecy that he (Mirza) will marry a widow, before his death;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)

- His prophecy that he will die in Mekkah or Medina.
(Mirza died in the city of Lahor; he never saw Mekkah or Medina.)

Indeed, Mirza Ghulam's death was a sign of Allah (SWT)'s displeasure with him.  He died from the disease he feared the most in a wretched condition and in utter disgrace, as he himself had stated:

"To turn out a liar in his own prophecy is biggest disgrace of disgraces."
   (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 382)

Let's review the record of Mirza's death as recounted by his closest followers and actual witnesses to his death.

Bashir Ahmad, the son of Mirza Ghulam, wrote in his biography:

"My mother informed me that 'the first attack of looseness of bowels upon the Promised Messiah occurred when he was at his dining room table.  Later, I started pressing his legs and he lay in comfort and slept and soon I too slept. After a short while, he again felt the call of nature and he used the bathroom a couple of times without awakening me, After this he felt very weak; he shook me up and laid down on my bed.  I recommenced pressing. In a few minutes he told me to go to bed but I refused and continued to press.  Once again he had an urge and, being too weak to go to the lavatory, I made arrangement for him close to the bed.  He sat down and relieved himself.  Next, he laid himself back on my bed and I started pressing again. His weakness grew intense; he had another motion, accompanied this time by vomiting.  This paralyzed him so much that when trying to lay back on the bed, he fell on his back and hit his head on the bed post.  His condition alarmed me...'."
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 1, P. 11-12; Sirat-ul-Mehdi, P.109)

Mirza Ghulam's father in law, Mir Nasir Nawab, recorded in his autobiography:

"The night his holiness fell ill, I was sleeping in my room.  When his illness grew severe, they woke me up.  I went over to his holiness and found him in great pain.  He addressed me saying: 'I have been stricken with cholera.'  After this, he did not utter a single intelligible and coherent word till he died on Monday, after ten O'clock in the morning."
    (Hayat-i-Nasir, P. 14)

Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah (SWT)'s wrath on mankind for their wrong doing! It is fitting that his last words were the admission that he had been stricken with the disease he was so fearful of. The witnesses present at his bed side recorded:

"Huzoor (Mirza Ghulam) could not talk two hours before death.   Dr. Mirza Yaqoob Baig and Dr. Syed Mohammad Hussei Shah were the attending physicians. Huzoor asked for paper and wrote on it: 'I have too much dryness.  I can't talk.' and some other words which could not be read."
      (Al-Fazl, Vol. 25, No. 274, November 24, 1937)

"As his condition became precarious, we stayed by him and continued treatment, but his pulse stopped by 10:15 A.M., on the 26th May, 1908 he breathed his last."
      (Al-Hakam, Mary 28, 1908)

We can not imagine what Mirza Ghulam might have felt when the hour of death approached and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì shut his mouth and tongue so that he could neither repent (proclaim Kalima) nor utter any more lies.

And who can be more unjust than he who invents a lie against Allah, or says: "I have received inspiration," whereas he is not inspired in anything; and who says, "I will reveal the like of what Allah has revealed."  And if you could but see when the wrong-doers are in the agonies of death, while the angels are stretching forth their hands (saying): "Deliver your soul!  This day you shall be recompensed with the torment of degradation because of what you used to utter against Allah other than the truth.  And you used to reject His signs (revelations) with disrespect!"
(The Holy Quran, Al-Anam, 6:93)

Mirza Ghulam's death irrefutably proves that the prophecies he attributed to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì were fabricated by him and his associates. The irony is that, to impress his followers, he had proclaimed his prophecies to be the ultimate sign of his truthfulness and stated:

"If what I have said does not happen exactly, I am prepared for every punishment.  My face should be blackened and I should be hanged.  I swear by the Mighty Allah that what I have said will happen. It must happen.  It is possible that the earth may be changed for another earth and the sky may be replaced by another sky, but it is not possible for God's word to change -- prepare for me a cross if my falsehood is exposed and curse me more than the Satans and the evil persons are cursed."
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 6, P. 293; Jang-i-Maqaddas, P. 188)

"To Judge my truthfulness or lies, there is no better test than my prophecies."
  
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 288)

We ask Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì to deliver all sincere seekers of the truth from the clutches of the Qadiani leadership.

whats that banging sound I hear? 

oh yeah, its the nails in his coffin lol. 

also, lol @ "cholera". 

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58 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

@Kazemi Very nice post. May Allah AWJ bless you for the sake of Ahle bait a.s.

Oh Sindbad,

I see that Allah is a Creator that Merciful,

All of His Believers will go to Jannah.

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