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Assalamu alaikum. 

Something that's been playing on my mind for a while is the permissibility of becoming transgender in Islam. I know the stance on homosexuality but transgenderism is obviously a lot different. I'm sure this has been discussed a lot on this site but yeah just a few things I'm wondering. 

Is it permissible? As in the actual hormone therapy and operations to become the opposite gender. And if it is and let's say a man is now a 'woman' what if she wants to marry a man? Is it considered homosexual and therefore not allowed? 

Is it seen as a mental illness or a birth defect or something similar that should be treated either through therapy or medically? Is it seen as a test of faith? Or a 'perversion' of sorts that someone develops later?

I read someone said it's absolutely haram because you can't change Allah's creation and even if it's a medical condition an operation wouldn't be necessary because if someone came in saying they felt like their arm wasn't part of their body no doctor would just chop it off. But actually there is a condition that exists where someone feels like a certain part of them like a limb or whatever isn't part of their body and in extreme cases they are able to get it removed. 

So if it's a test of faith is the test to live a life suppressing the desire to change gender or is the test having to go through so much with transitioning and society's reactions and all of that? Lots of things going through my mind. 

Becoming a revert has been hard in some aspects because I've had to alter a lot of my beliefs (for example I was raised to believe homosexuality was fine and gays should be able to get married and live their lifestyle etc) and so I just want to get all my answers straight and all the info I need so it's easier for me to understand why things I previously accepted are now not acceptable. 

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Scholars have varying opinions on gender reassignment procedures, but the ones who allow it only allow it for people who are psychologically tested and physically examined and determined to be genuinely intersex. A person can't just, on a whim, decide "today I'd like to be a woman". After completion of the procedure, they are considered fully the newly assigned gender, and can dress, live, and marry as such. 

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there is a genetic abnormality where sometimes people are naturally born with both male and female reproductive organs. these people are not sinners, not disgusting, not hellbound etc etc etc. they had no control over the conditions of their birth. 

HRT to align them to a gender of their choice is not anything controversial or bad or scandalous. its a medical procedure to help someone who is suffering. 

this is different to someone who is not suffering from this condition, who decides from now on he wants to be called jessica. 

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On 3/16/2017 at 7:09 AM, DigitalUmmah said:

there is a genetic abnormality where sometimes people are naturally born with both male and female reproductive organs. these people are not sinners, not disgusting, not hellbound etc etc etc. they had no control over the conditions of their birth. 

HRT to align them to a gender of their choice is not anything controversial or bad or scandalous. its a medical procedure to help someone who is suffering. 

this is different to someone who is not suffering from this condition, who decides from now on he wants to be called jessica. 

If I remember correctly, there is a hadith from Imam Ali(as) where they asked him about such a person and the reply was that which ever organ the person uses for urinating is the one that defines which gender that person is.

This is only applicable to people literally born with both reproductive organs, not to people who feel like they want to be the other gender because they are mentally ill and I think most people who want to change gender nowadays or even see themselves as "non binary" gender are mentally ill and I blame the society they live in, they tell the men to be like women and the women to be like men and the food they feed them full of hormones left and right.

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On 3/16/2017 at 6:20 AM, laylacat said:

Assalamu alaikum. 

Something that's been playing on my mind for a while is the permissibility of becoming transgender in Islam. I know the stance on homosexuality but transgenderism is obviously a lot different. I'm sure this has been discussed a lot on this site but yeah just a few things I'm wondering. 

Is it permissible? As in the actual hormone therapy and operations to become the opposite gender. And if it is and let's say a man is now a 'woman' what if she wants to marry a man? Is it considered homosexual and therefore not allowed? 

Is it seen as a mental illness or a birth defect or something similar that should be treated either through therapy or medically? Is it seen as a test of faith? Or a 'perversion' of sorts that someone develops later?

I read someone said it's absolutely haram because you can't change Allah's creation and even if it's a medical condition an operation wouldn't be necessary because if someone came in saying they felt like their arm wasn't part of their body no doctor would just chop it off. But actually there is a condition that exists where someone feels like a certain part of them like a limb or whatever isn't part of their body and in extreme cases they are able to get it removed. 

So if it's a test of faith is the test to live a life suppressing the desire to change gender or is the test having to go through so much with transitioning and society's reactions and all of that? Lots of things going through my mind. 

Becoming a revert has been hard in some aspects because I've had to alter a lot of my beliefs (for example I was raised to believe homosexuality was fine and gays should be able to get married and live their lifestyle etc) and so I just want to get all my answers straight and all the info I need so it's easier for me to understand why things I previously accepted are now not acceptable. 

It is not allowed unless if there was by birth abnormality. Such as a born baby is a biological female but has excessive organ or there is born baby who is biological male but lacks male hormones or body parts which can be adjusted by minor surgery.

For normal male and female, it is haram to become opposite gender, the main reason of this is that Allah curses in the Quran who changes the creation of Allah unless if there is abnormality in it. Why become opposite gender, why not treat the disease that caused someone to be opposite ????? Second reason is that male and female bodies are different. A mere removal or addition of body part or hormones do not make a complete opposite gender because male have different skeleton and females have different and their brain size also varies and also many functioning abilities. So, it is impossible for science.   

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Sometimes a child is born with ambiguous genitalia, and the parents and doctor choose the gender to raise the child. Sometimes a child is born with a deformity that they possess the external structure of the opposite gender. If, at a later time, it is found that the parents and doctors guessed incorrectly or if the genetic-structural difference is detected, the of person is Islamically permitted (by some scholars) to correct the error and live a normal life. 

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In short, there is a difference of opinion on this issue, and the acceptability of changing your sex will depend on your marja`.

I'm just very unsettled at the growing trend of children being pushed into gender reassignment. In Sweden, the number of children wanting to get a sex change is doubling every year: https://www.rt.com/news/380973-swedish-children-change-gender/

I think most people go through phases in their childhood where they are uncomfortable and insecure, or become tomboys or effeminate, and unfortunately the liberal climate in the West uses these phases to push the LGBT agenda. They are told that they are unhappy because they are trapped in the wrong gender, and that surgery is the way to go. This in my mind is a form of child abuse, and it has led to suicides.

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On 3/16/2017 at 6:20 AM, laylacat said:

Becoming a revert has been hard in some aspects because I've had to alter a lot of my beliefs (for example I was raised to believe homosexuality was fine and gays should be able to get married and live their lifestyle etc) and so I just want to get all my answers straight and all the info I need so it's easier for me to understand why things I previously accepted are now not acceptable. 

You're brave.

The fear lies in affects such relationships have on society in general. Perhaps most significant, affects on families that then affects society overall as families are (or should be) the building blocks and foundation of a strong society. For example, there seems to be opposing views on what influence homosexual parenting has on children:

Conservatives http://www.frc.org/issuebrief/new-study-on-homosexual-parents-tops-all-previous-research

vs

Liberals http://www.medicaldaily.com/do-same-sex-parents-impact-mental-health-their-children-some-us-states-say-yes-and-prohibit-lgbt

It seems though, the way society is heading, chronic liberalism has not been healthy for cohesive social structures. The proof is in the pudding. Increased levels in marriage breakdowns. Social pressures to be like the superficially glamorous rich & famous has been a direct cause of chronic depression, particularly amongst youth; amongst other spin-off effects. In fact that point was highlighted to me the other week seeing a flood of fans heading to a Justin Belieber concert (or maybe I was just jealous o.O ? ha).

As others have pointed out, having transgender therapy is permitted, in fact Iran has one of the highest rates of transgender treatment therapy in the world, though Iran does not remain without its vices, which is due more to cultural views than religious ones:

http://www.ibtimes.com/iran-transgender-law-islamic-republic-advances-bill-protect-transsexuals-amid-1940978

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/irans-treatment-of-trans-citizens-a-double-edged_us_5819f53de4b0cb89fdff2a89

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHmi3WAieew

Technically speaking, according to religious law, living with another man, is not prohibited, nor a man batting his eyes in awe at another man's hairy back. What is prohibited though is engagement in sexual activity.

Good luck with your journey. Actually Descartes went through such a conundrum and found himself re-evaluating every view he ever held. Interesting read.

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I share the same concerns about how early some people grow conviction they belong to the opposite gender. Today I was told to be careful by next year because I was going to have a transsexual (female to male) student, who is 18yo.

I wonder how at such a young age one can be so convinced of his or her sexual identity. Anyway, inshaAllah brother your doubts are cleared and you grow more and more conviction.

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On 3/16/2017 at 6:20 AM, laylacat said:

Assalamu alaikum. 

Something that's been playing on my mind for a while is the permissibility of becoming transgender in Islam. I know the stance on homosexuality but transgenderism is obviously a lot different. I'm sure this has been discussed a lot on this site but yeah just a few things I'm wondering. 

Is it permissible? As in the actual hormone therapy and operations to become the opposite gender. And if it is and let's say a man is now a 'woman' what if she wants to marry a man? Is it considered homosexual and therefore not allowed? 

Is it seen as a mental illness or a birth defect or something similar that should be treated either through therapy or medically? Is it seen as a test of faith? Or a 'perversion' of sorts that someone develops later?

I read someone said it's absolutely haram because you can't change Allah's creation and even if it's a medical condition an operation wouldn't be necessary because if someone came in saying they felt like their arm wasn't part of their body no doctor would just chop it off. But actually there is a condition that exists where someone feels like a certain part of them like a limb or whatever isn't part of their body and in extreme cases they are able to get it removed. 

So if it's a test of faith is the test to live a life suppressing the desire to change gender or is the test having to go through so much with transitioning and society's reactions and all of that? Lots of things going through my mind. 

Becoming a revert has been hard in some aspects because I've had to alter a lot of my beliefs (for example I was raised to believe homosexuality was fine and gays should be able to get married and live their lifestyle etc) and so I just want to get all my answers straight and all the info I need so it's easier for me to understand why things I previously accepted are now not acceptable. 

Allah made Men as Men because their spirit is originally inclined to that gender. Same with Women. So Transgender is blasphemous. In simple terms its like playing God, Allah gave us our shape when we were in our Mother's wombs and it is not right for us to try to undo the work he has done. 

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If a man gets medically diagnosed with like... gender dysohoria or gender identity disorder for which the treatment is hormone therapy would this be permissible? So it's kind of like a medical condition that needs to be treated? It is classed as a mental illness. There have been studies that show that a trans woman's brain is more similar to a biological woman's brain than to a biological man's brain and vice versa. Allah doesn't make mistakes. I know this. Are there Quran verses talking about transgenderism? I can't really find any. It's pretty clear that living a gay lifestyle is haram and it's clear on most haram things. Cross dressing (like a man dressing as a woman) is different from transgenderism. Like transgenderism is a mental illness with studies showing it could also be physiological as well so it's not just a man waking up deciding he wants to be called Jessica. Like I said I am working hard to change some of my beliefs but it's easier to do that if there is substantial evidence to prove it is not permissible. 

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37 minutes ago, laylacat said:

If a man gets medically diagnosed with like... gender dysohoria or gender identity disorder for which the treatment is hormone therapy would this be permissible? So it's kind of like a medical condition that needs to be treated? It is classed as a mental illness. There have been studies that show that a trans woman's brain is more similar to a biological woman's brain than to a biological man's brain and vice versa. Allah doesn't make mistakes. I know this. Are there Quran verses talking about transgenderism? I can't really find any. It's pretty clear that living a gay lifestyle is haram and it's clear on most haram things. Cross dressing (like a man dressing as a woman) is different from transgenderism. Like transgenderism is a mental illness with studies showing it could also be physiological as well so it's not just a man waking up deciding he wants to be called Jessica. Like I said I am working hard to change some of my beliefs but it's easier to do that if there is substantial evidence to prove it is not permissible. 

All these so called gender disorders is nonsense. Its just the Shaytan decieving people. 

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Gender dysphoria is a mental illness and should be treated as one. Giving in to mentally ill desires is not a solution. A man does not become a woman because he has surgery and hormone therapy, let alone because he claims to be a woman. It's not very surprising that such a high percentage of people suffering from this mental illness commit suicide, because they know themselves that they are not really women, and nothing they can do can make them so. Then there are those who end up regretting the hormone therapy and surgery, which makes the idea of performing it on children absolutely disgusting. Many children go through phases during puberty, but it doesn't necessarily last.

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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If the scholars who have ruled in favour of this did so on the basis that a man can be born as a woman and vice versa, then they should humble themselves and be open to the idea that they did so based on shoddy scientific research. It is better to admit one's mistake and make sure that it doesn't happen in the future rather than cling to a wrong position, the result of which you are giving the green light for legalised homosexuality.

We can all be wrong, we can all trust the wrong 'experts', but we can't all admit our mistakes, that is not a weakness, it is a strength.

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On 08/04/2017 at 6:52 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

Gender dysphasia is a mental illness and should be treated as one. Giving in to mentally ill desires is not a solution. A man does not become a woman because he has surgery and hormone therapy, let alone because he claims to be a woman. It's not very surprising that such a high percentage of people suffering from this mental illness commit suicide, because they know themselves that they are not really women, and nothing they can do can make them so. Then there are those who end up regretting the hormone therapy and surgery, which makes the idea of performing it on children absolutely disgusting. Many children go through phases during puberty, but it doesn't necessarily last.

Yes I do believe you shouldn't 'give in' to mental illness. I have mental illnesses however they were treated with therapy and medication. That was the treatment. I'm not saying transgenderism is okay because I'm still confused! But! If you're saying we shouldn't 'give in' to mental illness then by that do you mean we shouldn't try to cure or manage it? Like I'm talking about the 'cure'. I don't think any child should go through hormone treatment, children shouldnt be able to make those kinds of decisions for themselves... in many cases hormone therapy can result in infertility and as a child that's something you can't comprehend and definitely should wait to be an adult to make decision like that. But there are so many who also are happy once they go though hormone therapy ect so I mean there are always two sides to everything. I get your point though and I agree with a lot of it. 

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On 4/8/2017 at 7:17 AM, Ali_Hussain said:

If the scholars who have ruled in favour of this did so on the basis that a man can be born as a woman and vice versa, then they should humble themselves and be open to the idea that they did so based on shoddy scientific research. It is better to admit one's mistake and make sure that it doesn't happen in the future rather than cling to a wrong position, the result of which you are giving the green light for legalised homosexuality.

We can all be wrong, we can all trust the wrong 'experts', but we can't all admit our mistakes, that is not a weakness, it is a strength.

I myself am not giving the green light for homosexuality. I see them as two seperate issues. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and I think it's also a mental illness, I wish we could do more research on it but unfortunately in the west anyone who holds this opinion and seeks to provide evidence for it is automatically labelled homophobic and shut down which is just... stupid. Meant to have free speech in the west... but okay. I don't think a man can be 'born a woman' and vice versa but I think mentally they can feel that way and that's when they seek to live as the opposite gender but I also have watched many transgendered people who all agree they aren't and will never be the opposite sex obviously but they're more comfortable living as the opposite sex. I don't know. This is just a confusing topic to me, maybe it's not to most people but to me it doesn't seem as clear cut as yes or no. 

Oh oh and I can't watch the video... I only speak English. Sorry! 

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1 minute ago, laylacat said:

I myself am not giving the green light for homosexuality. I see them as two seperate issues. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation and I think it's also a mental illness, I wish we could do more research on it but unfortunately in the west anyone who holds this opinion and seeks to provide evidence for it is automatically labelled homophobic and shut down which is just... stupid. Meant to have free speech in the west... but okay. I don't think a man can be 'born a woman' and vice versa but I think mentally they can feel that way and that's when they seek to live as the opposite gender but I also have watched many transgendered people who all agree they aren't and will never be the opposite sex obviously but they're more comfortable living as the opposite sex. I don't know. This is just a confusing topic to me, maybe it's not to most people but to me it doesn't seem as clear cut as yes or no. 

This is a mental illness and should be treated as such and not encouraged to flourish. The fact that the west is investing so much effort into pushing this and attacking anyone who speaks out against it is an indication that it is wrong.

Even if for arguments sake we agree that all this gay transgender stuff is as real as they say, how can they explain the numbers? Why is it such a visible phenomenon? It has gotten to the point where there are more gays than ginger haired people in the world. 

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4 hours ago, laylacat said:

Yes I do believe you shouldn't 'give in' to mental illness. I have mental illnesses however they were treated with therapy and medication. That was the treatment. I'm not saying transgenderism is okay because I'm still confused! But! If you're saying we shouldn't 'give in' to mental illness then by that do you mean we shouldn't try to cure or manage it? Like I'm talking about the 'cure'. I don't think any child should go through hormone treatment, children shouldnt be able to make those kinds of decisions for themselves... in many cases hormone therapy can result in infertility and as a child that's something you can't comprehend and definitely should wait to be an adult to make decision like that. But there are so many who also are happy once they go though hormone therapy ect so I mean there are always two sides to everything. I get your point though and I agree with a lot of it. 

They whom seek not guidance in Allah, Allah misleads them, seals their hearts and lets them enjoy themselves whilst they are in plain error. They whom are faithful slaves in Allah should supplicate to Allah and focus not too much from this world. Allah is the only one who can cure them. Medication only suppress the problem for a short period of time and put you in a loophole where you are constantly reluctant on that medication and cant get off it or else you will be messed up. In conclusion, the parents or guardians of these(homosexuals, bisexuals, transgender, etc.) poison the minds of their children when they are still in youth, make them wear clothing and other appliances for the opposite sex, confuse them so that when they are older they will say: "I was meant to be the opposite sex". If anyone is truly mentally ill it is those who raised them. 

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On 4/7/2017 at 9:26 AM, laylacat said:

There have been studies that show that a trans woman's brain is more similar to a biological woman's brain than to a biological man's brain and vice versa.

You'll find studies that say this and other studies that dispute it. There are studies that conclude a lot of things, many of them debunked. The reality is that this claim, while repeated often by many, is still up in the air. It's not clear-cut, mainstream medical dogma. Look at this article from a week ago for example:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-biology-idUKKBN1AJ0F0

"Her studies suggest that transgender men have a weakened connection between the two areas of the brain that process the perception of self and one's own body. Savic said those connections seem to improve after the person receives cross-hormone treatment.

Her work has been published more than 100 times on various topics in peer-reviewed journals, but she still cannot conclude whether people are born transgender.

"I think that, but I have to prove that," Savic said."

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On 4/7/2017 at 4:26 PM, laylacat said:

If a man gets medically diagnosed with like... gender dysohoria or gender identity disorder for which the treatment is hormone therapy would this be permissible? So it's kind of like a medical condition that needs to be treated? It is classed as a mental illness. There have been studies that show that a trans woman's brain is more similar to a biological woman's brain than to a biological man's brain and vice versa. Allah doesn't make mistakes. I know this. Are there Quran verses talking about transgenderism? I can't really find any. It's pretty clear that living a gay lifestyle is haram and it's clear on most haram things. Cross dressing (like a man dressing as a woman) is different from transgenderism. Like transgenderism is a mental illness with studies showing it could also be physiological as well so it's not just a man waking up deciding he wants to be called Jessica. Like I said I am working hard to change some of my beliefs but it's easier to do that if there is substantial evidence to prove it is not permissible. 

As it is a form of mental illness, then treat the cause as opposed to masking the symptoms and signs. 

Also, the vast majority of research papers are quite frankly trash (you can look into that), and I don't mean that just about studies like these, but any study in any field.

Assuming what the studies put forth is true about the physiological role (probably extremely exaggerated), there are many other unclear mental illnesses that have such "physiological" roles which don't excuse the mental illness itself from an Islamic perspective. You don't accept and facilitate an illness... you accept and treat it.

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Salam

First of all I would like to appreciate all the participants those who have expressed their views and knowledge about this complex issue. 

All praise to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى who is the bestest creator. And there are about 160 or 162 ayats in Quran about his creation. He has created all sorts of which even human brain can’t think or dare to access. Transgender people are also his creation. They are also equal human being. It’s not God who has made a mistake while creating them but this is our society and human nature which can’t accept anything different from them. If it was up to human they would never accept black people, people with disabilities and or any other odd which is not perfect or near perfection to them. 

Transgender is someone who is in gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is not something by choice or someone just like to go for gender reassignment out of adventure. This is a suffering an unbearable suffering. A continuous battle between a body and brain or soul. There are scientific reasons behind them. This is a disorder of genetic and some deficiency of particular hormones when a child is in his/her mother’s womb in the process of completeness. A baby’s brain is developed before anything else in a mother’s womb. The sexual organs are the last stage in this process. Therefore brain mapping is completed before the sex organs are produces which can be effected by the deficiency of related hormones. There could be several reasons for that too. And one of the most known reason is cousins marriage which is more prone to genetic disorder.

There is a village in Africa in which the girls are changed to male and grow a pennis by reaching to the puberty age and science has identified that they were male in the mother’s womb by brain until a specific hormone which is called enzyme was missed and as a result the sexual parts were developed as a females. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4767848/amp/Caribbean-village-little-girls-turn-BOYS.html

Now the question about if this is permissible in Islam or not? Islam is a religion of nature and humanity. Allah is Aadil. Why he would create someone for suffering? And if there is a problem he has given solution for that too. There is a treatment of every illness. Just imagine will Allah be please if someone commit suicide as a result of gender dysphoria? And who says that you can’t change Allah’s creation? When Allah creates two children with their heads joint together will you leave them alone or will you operate to save their lives? Same way if some one has got deformation of teeth and that cause them grief in daily life and they can’t get married or being bullied by this problem. By fixing those teeth you can bring happiness to someone’s life. Will Allah be pleased by this or curse you?

Transgender are also human. This is their test and our test too. Their test is to suffer and still be pious and get this treated and our test is how we treat them while they are already suffering.

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14 hours ago, Syed saad sami said:

Now the question about if this is permissible in Islam or not? Islam is a religion of nature and humanity. Allah is Aadil. Why he would create someone for suffering? And if there is a problem he has given solution for that too. There is a treatment of every illness.

So Allah has created a type of person with an illness that could only be 'cured' in the 20th/21st century? What about all the transgender people before that? Where is Allah's mercy for them?

Gender dysphoria is certainly an illness, but it is a mental one, not a physical one, and needs to be treated as such. How can people be expected to believe that men who have fathered numerous children, and have had many relationships with women, are actually women themselves, and have been all their lives? This is ridiculous.

Unsurprisingly, the success rate for gender reassignment therapy is not particularly high, perhaps because even after the hormones and surgery, they still know that they are not actually what they are pretending to be. They have just been made to look like it.

Quote

Just imagine will Allah be please if someone commit suicide as a result of gender dysphoria? And who says that you can’t change Allah’s creation? When Allah creates two children with their heads joint together will you leave them alone or will you operate to save their lives? Same way if some one has got deformation of teeth and that cause them grief in daily life and they can’t get married or being bullied by this problem. By fixing those teeth you can bring happiness to someone’s life. Will Allah be pleased by this or curse you?

Fixing someone's teeth and performing major surgery along with hormone treatment in an effort to make them look like the opposite sex are hardly in the same category. However, by your logic, I would assume that if someone had a mental illness that convinced them that one of their limbs didn't belong to them, and wanted it cut off (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder), that you would be in favour of indulging them in their mental illness and cutting it off?

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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