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Mansur Bakhtiari

Prove to me that Ismail bin Jafar is the 7th Imam

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Salam

The proof that Imam Musa al Kazim (as) is Imam is this hadith.

Sharif al Qarashi page 129

a man who cursed al-Kadhim's grandfather, Imam Ali. The Imam's followers intended to kill the man, but al-Kadhim prevented them. He went to the man's farm in the outskirts of Medina. He approached him, but the man shouted at him not to walk on his plants. The Imam paid no attention and when he reached him, sat beside him and treated him kindly, asking how much had the man paid to sow his land. "One hundred dinars," said the man. "How much do you hope to acquire from it?" asked the Imam. "I do not know the unknown," said the man. "I only asked you about what you hope it would bring you," insisted the Imam. The man answered "two hundred dinars", and the Imam gave him three hundred dinars, saying "This three hundred dinars is for you and your plants are as they are."[16]

The Imam then headed for the mosque of the prophet, where he saw that the man was already sitting there. When he saw the Imam, the man stood up and called out the verse: "Allah knows best where to put his (prophetic) mission."[e] His companions were surprised at this change, but the man recited to them the noble deeds of the Imam and invoked Allah for him. Hence, the Imam turned to his companions and said: "Which was better – what you wanted or what I wanted? I have put right his attitude to the extent you have now become acquainted with."

Prove that Ismail has the right to imamate.

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5 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

The proof that Imam Musa al Kazim (as) is Imam is this hadith.

Sharif al Qarashi page 129

 

5 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Prove that Ismail has the right to imamate.

You answered yourself above. :D 

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Point one: Our earliest Shi'i sources point to Ismail b Jafar (ra) actually being a falliable being 

Point 2: In Shi'i theology, according to Sheikh Mohammad Shomali, does not incorporate predestination. So in Shia Islam man can change its destiny, and the ahadith mentioned say that humans changed their destiny to be not better, but worse.

Point 3: It is very possible the death of Ismail was staged. So what??? This does not prove his imamate. 

Point 4: That's true. His death is not what prevented him from succession.

Point 5: 

Point 6: Quran 16:32

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْىِ ٱلْمَوْتَىٰ وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا۟ وَءَاثَٰرَهُمْ ۚ وَكُلَّ شَىْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَٰهُ فِىٓ إِمَامٍ مُّبِين

I don't interpet by my words, but of the Ahlulbayt (as). From Hub-e-Ali Tafseer:

 Regarding Hisazwj Words [36:12] and We have Numbered everything in a 
‘المبين اإلمام ‘Manifest Imam, Ibn Abbas mentioned from Amir-ul-Momineenasws having said: ‘By Allahazwj, I
asws am the Manifest Imam, clarifying the Truth from the Falsehood, and the inheritor from Rasool-Allahsaww

So in reality, this does not mean all the Imams must be manifest, but that everything is encompassed in Maula Ali (as). Unless you want to interpret by your own logic.

Point 7: His daughter is an alcoholic, immodest, smoking.... infalliable? The seventh point isn't a point, it's a dream.

@Guerrilla

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^ I wasn't defending Ismaili beliefs, just sharing a link. But you did mention a couple interesting things I'd like to discuss. Maybe later when I have time I'll open another thread (so as to not derail this one) and tag you in it if you're interested?  Not a debate, just trying to understand some of the twelver beliefs you posted. 

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17 minutes ago, Guerrilla said:

^ I wasn't defending Ismaili beliefs, just sharing a link. But you did mention a couple interesting things I'd like to discuss. Maybe later when I have time I'll open another thread (so as to not derail this one) and tag you in it if you're interested?  Not a debate, just trying to understand some of the twelver beliefs you posted. 

Please do tag me in

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The proof one is ismail (As) was the favorite son of jaafar as sadiq and the eldest.

 

and the second proof that no shia can refutuate is the majority if the shia at the time of imam  jaafar as sadiq followed Abdullaj al aftah.

Then when they saw that Abdullaj al aftah.could not have any progeny they followed musa kadhim.

If musa kadhim was choosen, people won't follow Abdullaj al aftah.

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