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I don't think anyone at any time has claimed that "gayness" is completely innate. People have claimed that some people are innately more inclined to these actions than others. I don't think we can prove that to not be the case. 

As with all sins, some people are more tempted than others. That doesn't make the behavior permitted. 

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There is no gay gene, but it might be that there are polygenetic 'risk genes' that predispose one. It may be that there could even be epigenetic factors. The same goes for criminals, risk genes can influence that too. Even other behaviours, like addiction et al can all be influenced by genes.

Whether we act on them or reinforce them is our choice.

This is not a post aimed against any one group, just saying it like it is.

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5 minutes ago, E.L King said:

imply an EVIL lust derived from IBLEES.

I honestly don't think it matters whether there is innate tendency or not. Some people are genetically predisposed to overeat. Does that excuse them if they practice gluttony? Are innately hot headed people excused if they commit violence? No. Sin is sin and we all have trials. If it's genetic or if it's a choice, it doesn't matter. 

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3 minutes ago, notme said:

I honestly don't think it matters whether there is innate tendency or not. Some people are genetically predisposed to overeat. Does that excuse them if they practice gluttony? Are innately hot headed people excused if they commit violence? No. Sin is sin and we all have trials. If it's genetic or if it's a choice, it doesn't matter. 

I'm not discussing whether sodomy is a sin or not, that should be clear to ever Muslim.

I'm discussing whether this is innate or not, and it is important because it exposes zio lies.

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9 minutes ago, E.L King said:

All we hear is "may be" or "can be" or "might be".

The fact is that there is no proof for ANY of this, this sounds like a 100% choice with little innate influence, simply an EVIL lust derived from IBLEES.

Why are you so obsessed with this topic?

does it make you any happier insulting gay people in public? 

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3 minutes ago, E.L King said:

I'm discussing whether this is innate or not, and it is important because it exposes zio lies.

Rather than arguing, why not just identify their claim as completely irrelevant? 

If you argue about everything, people stop listening. Choose your battles. 

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3 minutes ago, hayaah said:

Why are you so obsessed with this topic?

does it make you any happier insulting gay people in public? 

I insulted no one. If I insulted anyone I would be banned.

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

Rather than arguing, why not just identify their claim as completely irrelevant? 

If you argue about everything, people stop listening. Choose your battles. 

Their claim that I am trying to disprove is that they were born this way. As I demonstrated in my opening post, this is nothing but a lie.

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21 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Their claim that I am trying to disprove is that they were born this way. As I demonstrated in my opening post, this is nothing but a lie.

But why does it matter? "Born this way" or not, all monotheistic religions that I know of condemn homosexual acts. Let them come up with better lies before you are willing to intellectually engage.

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Problem with these threads is that sometimes they are used as a base for how we must act towards homosexuals and homosexuality.

At the end of the day, regardless of biological or environmental influences, there are gays who fight against their desires and gays that don't. And for me, there lies the unique difference, and the reason for which I do believe that homosexuality, as a condition, is NOT a reason to criminalize or ridicule a person. Thus, your thread title, to begin with, is completely out of place ethically and morally speaking.

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30 minutes ago, hayaah said:

They are anything but good. 

It's very good.

25 minutes ago, notme said:

But why does it matter? "Born this way" or not, all monotheistic religions that I know of condemn homosexual acts. Let them come up with better lies before you are willing to intellectually engage.

It matters because I am exposing a lie. I like exposing lies. This thread is not made to prove 'x' or 'y' is a sin, like I said any sane person would know this lifestyle is sinful. The only point of this thread is to expose a zionist-backed lie.

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7 hours ago, Bakir said:

Problem with these threads is that sometimes they are used as a base for how we must act towards homosexuals and homosexuality.

At the end of the day, regardless of biological or environmental influences, there are gays who fight against their desires and gays that don't. And for me, there lies the unique difference, and the reason for which I do believe that homosexuality, as a condition, is NOT a reason to criminalize or ridicule a person. Thus, your thread title, to begin with, is completely out of place ethically and morally speaking.

My title is perfect and is perfect both ethically and morally because it exposed the imperialists lies about being people born with Satan created influences.

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

My title is perfect and is perfect both ethically and morally because it exposed the imperialists lies about being people born with Satan created influences.

I thought you tried to make a point against the idea that it is an inborn influence.

Your title says GAYS EXPOSED, nothing else for me, and it is out of place because it is generalizing that all gays think one way and lead one lifestyle, and we both know that is not true nor fair nor right to say.

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

My title is perfect and is perfect both ethically and morally because it exposed the imperialists lies about being people born with Satan created influences.

You are incredibly judgmental and "my title is perfect" sounds very arrogant. 

At the end of day, we were all created good, with free-will, and all of us have the capability to sin. Even you. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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1 hour ago, Bakir said:

I thought you tried to make a point against the idea that it is an inborn influence.

Your title says GAYS EXPOSED, nothing else for me, and it is out of place because it is generalizing that all gays think one way and lead one lifestyle, and we both know that is not true nor fair nor right to say.

I didn't see all homos are the same so stop lying, the title is implying that the gays have been exposed in that they choose how they live and are not born the way they are.

Perfectly fair and true.

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You are incredibly judgmental and "my title is perfect" sounds very arrogant. 

At the end of day, we were all created good, with free-will, and all of us have the capability to sin. Even you. 

Alhamdulillah for being judgemental. Being judgemental is good. That's what a judge does.

Everyone has the capability to sin but not all sin is the same in terms of public scrutiny and punishment.

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1 hour ago, Marbles said:

ShiaChat talks more about gays than gays do about themselves.

In ordinary terms it may be classified as an obsession. Homophobia.

Just an observation. 

Alhamdulillah. This proves ShiaChat is a good website, not perfect but good. It shows ShiaChat carries a hatred for sin, which is a good thing in Islam. I hate sin, do you love sin?

Homophobia is good. Who said it is bad? It's a good thing.

Just an observation.

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12 hours ago, E.L King said:

All we hear is "may be" or "can be" or "might be".

The fact is that there is no proof for ANY of this, this sounds like a 100% choice with little innate influence, simply an EVIL lust derived from IBLEES.

Totally agree with @E.L King, there is nothing any reality in it. There are two things in this world these are normal and abnormal. Normal are perfectly functioning while abnormalities are caused by various wrong factors there can be by birth abnormalities such as transgenders may have excessive or missing parts but biologically they are either male or female, they need to be treated and there is nothing wrong with their minds except that they do not have physical organs. About normal people who are turning to be wrong as "homosexuals', they are brainwashed or are victim of wrongs in the society. If a person is free of stress but environment makes him depressed, he did not have depression by birth but his environment made him or her such.  

There is nothing like that, it was wrong idea which was deliberately penetrated into the west to spoil their society. 

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