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American healthcare is absolute robbery

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It's great for doctors, they are the bestpaid in the world compared to Canada/UK/Australia, however, it's absolutely horrible for the actual patients. It's incredibly corrupt how they can get you to do 'extra tests', and maybe drain you of your money needlessly. [NOTE: Always see a MD , don't let my post put you off going, i am only relating what happens among some].

Here in the UK, we have free healthcare from point of need. You can visit a doctor without paying anything. No matter how long your stay in hospital is, you're free to be there. You don't have to worry about insurance or lab-bills or whatever else there is. You just focus on getting better.

And i realise now just how valuable the NHS is, and universal healthcare for all.

I mean just have a watch of this:

 

Edited by uponthesunnah

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My son stepped on a needle and it broke. He had surgery to remove it in 2013. Fortunately we had very good insurance through my employer. I just finished paying my portion two months ago. With insurance, my portion was only about $4000. I don't know what it would have been without.

Capitalist medicine is cruel and stupid. I have many friends who frequently have to choose between food and their required medicines. It's just another way to keep people in poverty. 

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11 minutes ago, notme said:

My son stepped on a needle and it broke. He had surgery to remove it in 2013. Fortunately we had very good insurance through my employer. I just finished paying my portion two months ago. With insurance, my portion was only about $4000. I don't know what it would have been without.

Capitalist medicine is cruel and stupid. I have many friends who frequently have to choose between food and their required medicines. It's just another way to keep people in poverty. 

 

My mother had to be hospitalised a few years ago abruptly. We paid nothing for the time in A and E, [ER], the surgery, and the hospital stay after. I've gone time and time again to the doctors when i suffered from medical problems and paid nothing.

How many people are put off seeing doctor because of these ridiculous costs?

American doctors are also overpaid bar none. They get paid double what other doctors get paid in the UK, Canada, Australia which have universal healthcare.

They fatten their pockets while the rest suffer.

 

Edited by uponthesunnah

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1 hour ago, uponthesunnah said:

How many people are put off seeing doctor because of these ridiculous costs?

Put off? How about how many wait until their condition is an emergency? How about how many die? How many homeless? How many lost jobs, divorces, families shattered, due to illness or financial strain? 

Put off.....!

That's typically British mildness. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Aghhh we all know that. I pay $1000 a month and my deductible is $6000.

So you pay $12 000, except if you get sick or injured, then you pay $18 000. 

How much is minimum wage again? Something near $16 000/year for full time? Hm. And what is the cutoff for Medicaid - $14 000/yr? 

 

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Just now, notme said:

So you pay $12 000, except if you get sick or injured, then you pay $18 000. 

How much is minimum wage again? Something near $16 000/year for full time? Hm. And what is the cutoff for Medicaid - $14 000/yr? 

 

Welcome to America!

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Brits should be lucky for what they have. If Tories have their way, you might have a US model yourselves in the near future. 

Doctors are an easy punching bag, but their salaries are peanuts compared to hospital administrators, insurance and pharma executives, etc. Plus most doctors have a heavy student debt burden. 

Edited by magma

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34 minutes ago, notme said:

Put off? How about how many wait until their condition is an emergency? How about how many die? How many homeless? How many lost jobs, divorces, families shattered, due to illness or financial strain? 

Put off.....!

That's typically British mildness. 

 

You are so right.

Something has to change in the American healthcare system.

Is there anything in the constitution that can be used to fight against this injustice?

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17 minutes ago, magma said:

Brits should be lucky for what they have. If Tories have their way, you might have a US model yourselves in the near future. 

Doctors are an easy punching bag, but their salaries are peanuts compared to hospital administrators, insurance and pharma executives, etc. Plus most doctors have a heavy student debt burden. 

Not american doctors.They get paid handsomely, and more. Compared to the ones here in the UK, they earn 2-10 times more.

But you're spot on, the pharma et al are raking it in, especially in America. In Canada, they pay far less for drugs. In the UK, we pay 10 dollars on any prescription. Those under 18 [or in full time pre-unversity education] or over 65, or without a job, or many others who meet the criteria get free medication.

The tories are too scared to do anything to our NHS, but they might do things covertly and slowly via small-print.

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On 2/7/2017 at 1:24 PM, notme said:

^ Right.

Not to mention most doctors work much harder and much longer and more erratic hours than those rich insurance executives.

While doctors work hard, there is no doubt in my mind part of the problem here is that doctors in the US are grossly overpaid. If you compare the salary in the US to other comparable , developed countries, like Canda, the UK, even Australia, doctors in the US get paid several times more in many instances.

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4 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

While doctors work hard, there is no doubt in my mind part of the problem here is that doctors in the US are grossly overpaid.

But opposed to other countries, medical education is extremely expensive in the US, and many doctors have large student debt. Their higher pay compared to other countries (where school is cheap or free) has to reflect that. Only a minority of doctors are making an amount that would be considered statistically obscene. 

Doctor salaries are a drop in the bucket overall for health care costs. The big problem is the insurance, pharma, and biotech industries, which all raise the costs considerably. Only a tiny fraction of costs goes to a doctor, most goes to wealthy people and places higher up the totem pole.

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1 hour ago, E.L King said:

France has the best healthcare and its not single payer.

Awesome. 

Not to be rude, but how is this relevant to the topic? Last time I checked, it was about debt, doctors receiving high pay checks in the US, benefits of the NHS as opposed to other systems, etc. 

"France has the best healthcare" is rather vague tbh. As a non-French I have no idea what that statement means, and is frankly subjective. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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4 hours ago, magma said:

But opposed to other countries, medical education is extremely expensive in the US, and many doctors have large student debt. Their higher pay compared to other countries (where school is cheap or free) has to reflect that. Only a minority of doctors are making an amount that would be considered statistically obscene. 

Doctor salaries are a drop in the bucket overall for health care costs. The big problem is the insurance, pharma, and biotech industries, which all raise the costs considerably. Only a tiny fraction of costs goes to a doctor, most goes to wealthy people and places higher up the totem pole.

All of this is true, but as someone who has flirted with the idea of moving to the US and made the comparisons between fee's and eventual salary, i have to say that American doctors are still paid higher, and that is perhaps a significant, albeit smaller [relative to other factor], in your healthcare costs.

Doctors there are ridiculosuly overpaid, and i don't deny the hard work and loans one must overcome to get to a certain position, but average salaries of 200k, 300k, 400k is just murder.

Even when i wanted to move there, the prospect of money was bitter-sweet, lining up my own pocket and robbing others.

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33 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

Doctors there are ridiculosuly overpaid, and i don't deny the hard work and loans one must overcome to get to a certain position, but average salaries of 200k, 300k, 400k is just murder.

High stakes, hard work, loans, malpractice costs, and 8+ years of school and training. I think the pay is reasonable. 

Reducing doctor salaries won't cut health care costs significantly. 

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51 minutes ago, magma said:

High stakes, hard work, loans, malpractice costs, and 8+ years of school and training. I think the pay is reasonable. 

Reducing doctor salaries won't cut health care costs significantly. 

You may have a point on malpractise costs as people love to sue in America. But above that, i would say the pay is grossly unfair.

"But that’s not remotely true. The last time the OECD looked at this (PDF), they found that, adjusted for local purchasing power, America has the highest-paid general practitioners in the world. And our specialists make more than specialists in every other country except the Netherlands. What’s even more striking, as the Washington Post’s Sarah Kliff observed last week, these highly paid doctors don’t buy us more doctors’ visits. Canada has about 25 percent more doctors’ consultations per capita than we do, and the average rich country has 50 percent more. This doctor compensation gap is hardly the only issue in overpriced American health care—overpriced medical equipment, pharmaceuticals, prescription drugs, and administrative overhead are all problems—but it’s a huge deal."

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/02/american_doctors_are_overpaid_medicare_is_cheaper_than_private_insurance.html

I might move there if i find the right person, and i would put my hand up and say [if i were to pass and whatnot] i would be getting grossly overpaid.

But i  don't think it would go down well to tax salaries, but something has to give.

Edited by uponthesunnah

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@uponthesunnah if you do become a doctor, and you do come to the United States, and you find yourself with more wealth than you feel comfortable with, you can always support charitable causes. Additionally, many doctors and nurses volunteer in free clinics to serve people who otherwise would have no access to care. 

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18 hours ago, notme said:

@uponthesunnah if you do become a doctor, and you do come to the United States, and you find yourself with more wealth than you feel comfortable with, you can always support charitable causes. Additionally, many doctors and nurses volunteer in free clinics to serve people who otherwise would have no access to care. 

I don't believe in trickle-down economics. In that the wealthy should get paid so much and be left to help others from their wealth. I really think there needs to be a societal , whole-scale effort here.

It simply is not fair for working and middle class families [ofwhich my family has always  been, i come from a very poor family] to be expected to pay so much of their wealth into healthcare while doctors, big pharma et al rake in 200,300, 400k+. It's not acceptable.

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19 minutes ago, notme said:

@uponthesunnah if you do become a doctor, and you do come to the United States, and you find yourself with more wealth than you feel comfortable with, you can always support charitable causes. Additionally, many doctors and nurses volunteer in free clinics to serve people who otherwise would have no access to care. 

[By the way, these are all excellent ideas, but i meant, the american people can't be at the mercy of the good nature of some doctors]

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32 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

I don't believe in trickle-down economics. In that the wealthy should get paid so much and be left to help others from their wealth. I really think there needs to be a societal , whole-scale effort here.

It simply is not fair for working and middle class families [ofwhich my family has always  been, i come from a very poor family] to be expected to pay so much of their wealth into healthcare while doctors, big pharma et al rake in 200,300, 400k+. It's not acceptable.

 

This is all true. My suggestion was meant to provide an interim partial solution. 

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Doctors also get the ever living snot sued out of them here. 

Doctors don't even make that much tbh. $170k is average for general practitioner. Compare that to $25m+ for administrators, CEOs, drug company executives, etc. 

To give some perspective, I make around one-fourth of what a doctor makes. And that seems perfectly fair to me. I also make around 1/609 of what my company's CEO makes, which does not seem particularly fair. Doctors have ridiculous amounts of student debt, have massive malpractice insurance costs, and work exceedingly hard for their pay.

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