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notme

Killing civilians in war

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On 2/1/2017 at 6:58 AM, notme said:

Someone else doing it doesn't make wrong right. As Muslims and as followers of ahlul bayt we should be better than this. 

I don't think there are exceptions to whoever kills one innocent person, it is as if he killed all of humanity, whoever saves one, it is as if he has saved all humanity. 

We only need to look at the example of the prophet in battle - civilian captives were taken into families as wives, slaves, or servants, or sent home. Prisoner soldiers were not mistreated or summarily executed. People were treated like people. War is ugly, always has been always will be, but since it has become industrialized starting around WWI, it's very close to evil. Using technology for mass murder is evil. 

allegedly The Jews of a certain city who betrayed the treaty were killed according to their own books, except women and children (boys who wete teenagers  may have been as well).

I detest killing of innocents but in a way they can be used against you.  Children and women included.  It becomes a chaotic mess.  Even unwilling combatants are coerced because they're own families are threatened. 

The hearts compassion is a weakness a moral less enemy will exploit if they see it in their foe.

The Quran has a stance to simply fight those who fight you.  I dont see a case to justify collateral damage but neither  constitute collateral damages as an act of war, as far as I understand it.

Ideally, war should have been avoided to begin with.  And that so called technology you speak of also acts as a war deterrent (and has been used as such) as an instrument of fear at the cost of too many lives.  Though also to bully and coerce.

Power, technology, weapons counter immorally groups from exploiting the weak.   It seems they are necessary.  

The world is always going to be a crappy place in this regard.

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5 hours ago, Shi3i_jadeed said:

Sad but an inevitable part of war. 
Allah says, 
وَأَعِدُّوا لَهُم مَّا اسْتَطَعْتُم مِّن قُوَّةٍ وَمِن رِّبَاطِ الْخَيْلِ تُرْهِبُونَ بِهِ عَدُوَّ اللَّهِ وَعَدُوَّكُمْ وَآخَرِينَ مِن دُونِهِمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَهُمُ اللَّهُ يَعْلَمُهُمْ ۚ وَمَا تُنفِقُوا مِن شَيْءٍ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تُظْلَمُونَ - 8:60
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

This verse doesnt say anything about assaulting innocent people.

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2 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

This verse doesnt say anything about assaulting innocent people.

You are right it doesn't. Basically it is saying to prepare anything you can muster against your enemies. This is a principle completely confirmed by the sound intellect as well. Obviously purposefully targeting innocents in war is wrong but the reality is that innocents will always die in wars and this simply cannot be avoided. For instance if the enemy city is going to be attacked it would have to be bombed which will cause civilian causalities, this isn't new but just the medium has changed. Instead of trebuchets it is f16s. 

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Videos of Syrian Militia Abusing Kurdish Fighter’s Corpse Stir Outrage

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The family of Barin Kobani, a Kurdish fighter whose mutilated body was abused by Syrian rebels, at a mourning ceremony for her on Saturday. CreditDelil Souleiman/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

KOBANI, Syria — One fighter posed for selfies with the woman’s corpse. Another called her a “female pig.” Another man stood on her naked breast as someone said, “She’s beautiful, man.”

Those are some of the low points of two new videos of what appear to be Turkish-backed fighters abusing the mutilated body of a Kurdish fighter.

The videos, which were posted on Saturday by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, have caused an unusual uproar in a war in which hard-to-watch footage has been a regular feature.

The head of the rights group, Rami Abdul Rahman, said on Monday that he had obtained the videos from one of the fighters pictured in them, who identified the group as part of the Free Syrian Army. The Free Syrian Army is a rebel militia fighting alongside Turkey in its battle against the Kurds in northern Syria.

Although horrifying videos are nothing new in Syria’s seven-year war, in this case the videos were apparently made by a group at least nominally under the command of a NATO country. That the object of abuse was a partly naked woman added to the outrage, with some commentators saying that even the Islamic State would not have behaved as badly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/world/middleeast/syria-video-kurds.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/world/middleeast/syria-video-kurds.html

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