Bazzi_

Lottery permissible?

Rate this topic

18 posts in this topic

For instance, there are two games that people, unfortuantly, live by in the United States, Mega Millions and Powerball. Basically, you pay $1-2 (or more if desired) to get 5 numbers picked out. Lets say someone rarely plays and hits the jackpot winning $100,000,000 (even though you have a higher chance of being killed by a vending machine).... is he allowed to spend any of that money? I have many family members who you could say are quite conservative and very religious, yet, even they play these games, maybe its an addiction? I wont lie, even I played them a few times, knowing full well I would NOT be winning anything. When I ask them about their permissibility they go on to tell me that its not like gambling, and the government takes 30% of it to charity, so your good. I remember seeing a story of some guy winning millions from a scratch off ticket, but he mundane in collecting them money because he stated it was one of the forbidden fruits, and was haram..... then he died the next day, I think as a result of someone poisoning him..

 

Is it considered un-lawful wealth, and why?

(Side note, if you think about it, BILLIONS are spent on these two games yearly, which if put to good use instead, could probably end poverty..... humans....)

 

EDIT: found the story 

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/April-2013/Poison-Lotto/

Edited by Bazzi_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Ayatollah Sistani,

 

Quote

These are tickets sold by companies whereby they pledge to draw the winning numbers. Whomsoever happen to have such numbers on his ticket will be declared the winner and should get a prize. This could take different forms.

(i) The aim of the buyer of such a ticket could be the possibility of winning the prize.
This type of transaction is haraam and batil without ishkal.. If the haraam act had been committed and he won, and the company happened to be state owned, the amount of the prize taken should be treated as majhoulil malik. The permissibility of having the right of disposal over such money is dependant on consulting the Marji’ to finding a legitimate way of making it good. If the company was private, the right of disposal over the prize money is in order. However, one should take account of securing the consent of the owners of the money, no matter whether they know the transaction is imperfect (fasidah).
(ii) Giving the money is done without expecting a return on it. That is donating it for a good cause, such as building a school or a bridge, etc., with no intention of winning a prize or making a profit. If this was the case, there is no harm in it.
However, if he won a prize, there is no objection that he received it, and could have the right of disposal over the its money, after consultation with the Marji’ to finding a legitimate way of making it good. This should be the case if the company was owned by the government. Otherwise, there should be no need for obtaining the permission of the Marji’.
(iii) Payment of money is done by way of loan, provided that the money lent be returned in, say , six months time. However, repayment is made subject to the condition of obtaining a lottery ticket, whose value the company will pay should the participant win.
This type of transaction is haraam as it constitutes a form of usury loan.

 

shiaman14 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q1233: Is it permissible to buy lotto tickets, noting that the company running the enterprise are privately owned and 20% of its profit goes to women’s charitable institutions?
A: Lottery tickets have no lawful monetary value and the ruling of gambling instruments is applied to them. Therefore, it is not permissible to sell or to buy one. Also the money obtained by the winners as a prize is not ḥalāl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(ii) Giving the money is done without expecting a return on it. That is donating it for a good cause, such as building a school or a bridge, etc., with no intention of winning a prize or making a profit. If this was the case, there is no harm in it.
However, if he won a prize, there is no objection that he received it, and could have the right of disposal over the its money, after consultation with the Marji’ to finding a legitimate way of making it good. This should be the case if the company was owned by the government. Otherwise, there should be no need for obtaining the permission of the Marji’.

 

 

Well...... thats interesting. So, say someones buys a ticket for a dollar, with the intention of "im donating this dollar in the cause of building a school, or building a road, and and have no intention of winning, but if I do, then I will take the money". Its permissible? Then if he wins it, he has to consult with a local scholar to find a legitimate way of making it good. What does that mean? As in, he has to donate it all to causes and charities, or is he allowed to spend most of it on himself? It seems like a ton of beating around the bush... no? I can see the difference in of it in comparison to traditional gambling, where as in the lotto, the money actually goes to a good cause if you don't win anything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hassan Y said:

Q1233: Is it permissible to buy lotto tickets, noting that the company running the enterprise are privately owned and 20% of its profit goes to women’s charitable institutions?
A: Lottery tickets have no lawful monetary value and the ruling of gambling instruments is applied to them. Therefore, it is not permissible to sell or to buy one. Also the money obtained by the winners as a prize is not ḥalāl.

These games are owned by the U.S federal government, does that deem it privately owned? 

2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

It's clearly gambling. Just because the amount gambled is relatively small, it doesn't change that fact.

I agree, gambling in the sense of it being a game of chance, then we fall back into the "intention" thing. Can someone really play with the intention of not winning, and just donating to the states good causes...... deep deep inside, they may have an atoms worth of intention, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Bazzi_ said:

These games are owned by the U.S federal government, does that deem it privately owned? 

That's even worse. 

Bazzi_ likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Hassan Y said:

That's even worse. 

True, who knows whose pockets its going into.... poverty could without a doubt be ended if we instead used the money spent on these worthless tickets.

 

Says something

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bazzi_ said:

I agree, gambling in the sense of it being a game of chance, then we fall back into the "intention" thing. Can someone really play with the intention of not winning, and just donating to the states good causes...... deep deep inside, they may have an atoms worth of intention, right?

Why would you play the lottery if your intention is to donate to charity? If you wanted to donate, then you would give the money directly to charities. This is just searching for a loophole in order to be able to play. Ultimately, the real reason people play the lottery is because they hope to win money through gambling, and this is haram no matter what 'intention games' people try to play. Remember, you can't fool God.

alHussein and Haji 2003 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Why would you play the lottery if your intention is to donate to charity? If you wanted to donate, then you would give the money directly to charities. This is just searching for a loophole in order to be able to play. Ultimately, the real reason people play the lottery is because they hope to win money through gambling, and this is haram no matter what 'intention games' people try to play. Remember, you can't fool God.

 

I guess theres different opinions about it, heres the late Religious Authority, Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlullah (ra), take on it.

 

Q: It is known that lottery is prohibited, whereas I heard that this does not mean that it is prohibited to take the money that one gains from participating in competitions, is that

A: Lottery and competitions are considered permissible. Besides, the gained money is also deemed lawful.

 

 

In this context, His Eminence, the late Religious Authority, Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlullah (ra) said: “It is permissible to buy lottery and lotto tickets for they are not a form of gambling that is forbidden according to the Quran. Gambling results in a gain attained through Mughalaba (which literally means to take part in a contest aiming to defeat the other), and not the prize one gets after participating in a kind of draw or the like, whether in the lottery, lotto and others. All what is not a form of gambling and is not forbidden by any other consideration is allowed. Moreover, gambling might create a state of feud and enmity and distract one from mentioning Allah and attending his prayers, for Allah says: “The Shaitan only desires to cause enmity and hatred to spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to keep you off from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you then desist?” (05:91). 

 

whats your opinion Haydar?

Edited by Bazzi_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Bazzi_ said:

 

I guess theres different opinions about it, heres the late Religious Authority, Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlullah (ra), take on it.

 

Q: It is known that lottery is prohibited, whereas I heard that this does not mean that it is prohibited to take the money that one gains from participating in competitions, is that

A: Lottery and competitions are considered permissible. Besides, the gained money is also deemed lawful.

 

 

In this context, His Eminence, the late Religious Authority, Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlullah (ra) said: “It is permissible to buy lottery and lotto tickets for they are not a form of gambling that is forbidden according to the Quran. Gambling results in a gain attained through Mughalaba (which literally means to take part in a contest aiming to defeat the other), and not the prize one gets after participating in a kind of draw or the like, whether in the lottery, lotto and others. All what is not a form of gambling and is not forbidden by any other consideration is allowed. Moreover, gambling might create a state of feud and enmity and distract one from mentioning Allah and attending his prayers, for Allah says: “The Shaitan only desires to cause enmity and hatred to spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to keep you off from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you then desist?” (05:91). 

 

whats your opinion Haydar?

Although in many ways I'm a great admirer of the late Sayyid, he did have some strange opinions here and there. According to the logic presented here, there would be no problem in betting on sports events either, since they don't result from competition. Scratch cards would also appear to be fine. Even the roulette wheel would then be ok. In reality, these are known as forms of gambling, and their role as a societal evil is also well known.

The structure of a lottery is simple. People bet a certain amount of money on a chance event in the hope of a larger return of money. The main reason people don't see it as gambling is because they are usually only betting a small amount, especially compared to the huge sums they could collect if they won.

Haji 2003 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lf anybody happens to find a lottery ticket on the sidewalk or somewhere, you send it to me.

l'Il take care of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/01/2017 at 6:05 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

Why would you play the lottery if your intention is to donate to charity? If you wanted to donate, then you would give the money directly to charities. This is just searching for a loophole in order to be able to play. Ultimately, the real reason people play the lottery is because they hope to win money through gambling, and this is haram no matter what 'intention games' people try to play. Remember, you can't fool God.

Yea, but the fact is that playing lottery for charitable reasons is halal according to Sayyed Al-Sistani, and their very well maybe people who play it with that intention.

I remember I had a similar discussion with another brother about how a horse racer is allowed to bet - to me it is simply an exception. And this case is similar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Although in many ways I'm a great admirer of the late Sayyid, he did have some strange opinions here and there.

:NH:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Although in many ways I'm a great admirer of the late Sayyid, he did have some strange opinions here and there. According to the logic presented here, there would be no problem in betting on sports events either, since they don't result from competition. Scratch cards would also appear to be fine. Even the roulette wheel would then be ok. In reality, these are known as forms of gambling, and their role as a societal evil is also well known.

The structure of a lottery is simple. People bet a certain amount of money on a chance event in the hope of a larger return of money. The main reason people don't see it as gambling is because they are usually only betting a small amount, especially compared to the huge sums they could collect if they won.

 

55 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

lf anybody happens to find a lottery ticket on the sidewalk or somewhere, you send it to me.

l'Il take care of it.

 

45 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Yea, but the fact is that playing lottery for charitable reasons is halal according to Sayyed Al-Sistani, and their very well maybe people who play it with that intention.

I remember I had a similar discussion with another brother about how a horse racer is allowed to bet - to me it is simply an exception. And this case is similar.

Ok, change of topic then, what if someone gifts you a ticket (very common practice here), or a scratch off ticket. You did not pay for it, nor did you have the intention of buying one, someone just gave it to you for free, and it ended up being a winning ticket, would then money then be halal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People should remember that aside from the letter of the law, there is also the spirit of the law. To me, Islam doesn't promote obtaining unearned money through the means of gambling.

Just for the sake of information, in most countries that I'm aware of playing the lottery is considered gambling and is regulated by gambling commissions. It therefore seems a bit off to see Muslims trying to argue that it's not.

Aisde from anything else, the odds of winning are so small that even if you do believe it's allowed, it's a rationally stupid thing to do.

Haji 2003 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bazzi_ said:

 

 

Ok, change of topic then, what if someone gifts you a ticket (very common practice here), or a scratch off ticket. You did not pay for it, nor did you have the intention of buying one, someone just gave it to you for free, and it ended up being a winning ticket, would then money then be halal?

I hope it is halal because l intend on spending it -minus Zakat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Aisde from anything else, the odds of winning are so small that even if you do believe it's allowed, it's a rationally stupid thing to do.

That in itself helps to define gambling - where the attraction is a very large potential payout, albeit at a vanishingly low probability of success.

 

Edited by Haji 2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.