j.angel

Why are Shias so hated?

165 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, P. Ease said:

It's been narrated in the books that way.. I'm merely quoting, not lying.

Ok show me that with reference. So, that I may know that by myself.

And even if it is true, it showed people difference between a high person and a low person. Muawyiya ibn Abu Sufiyan issued orders to talk bad about Imam Ali a.s so as which was closed during the time of Umar bin Abdul Aziz. While Imam Ali a.s tried to stop Malik al Ashtar from abusing him. It may be because Hazrat Malik Al Ashtar wanted to show people how their Imam is and how Muawiya was. And we do not abuse anyone but we curse them which is Islamic and Quranic. So, is there is nothing you can do about cursing which Quran has legitimized. 

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Posted (edited)

Quote

Here is what Quran say about those muhajirun and ansaar.

 وَالسَّابِقُونَ الْأَوَّلُونَ مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالْأَنْصَارِ وَالَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوهُمْ بِإِحْسَانٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا عَنْهُ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي تَحْتَهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدًا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ
And as for the first and foremost of those who have forsaken the domain of evil and of those who have sheltered and succored the Faith as well as those who follow them in [the way of] righteousness - God is well-pleased with them, and well-pleased are they with Him. And for them has He readied gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide beyond the count of time: this is the triumph supreme! [Tauba 100]

Instead of following them and their path you are calling them kafir. Let me tell you Abu bakr r.a was the fourth one who accepted Islam after Umm Khadija s.a, Imam Ali a.s, Zaid bin Haritha r.a then Abu bakr r.a. He was among the first and foremost muhajireen.

Do you think God is well-pleased from any of them if they follow their sins even after the Nabi? How about Shaitan who was a pious and Allah (swt) was well-pleased with him before his kufr. This verse does only guarantee paradise for them where Allah (swt) will be well-pleased from that day they turned to Islam and keeped in right path till they died. 

Another problematic is Abu al-Ghadiyah who according the hadiths of Sunnis, he would receive paradise because he did ba’yah at Hudaybiyyah and was early Emigrants and the Helpers. This person actually was the killer of Ammar ibn Yasir (ra) (Musnad Ahmad” and “Isabah” v 4 p 14 and others). Why he is still protected by your scholars? Because it can't go against the sahih hadiths of muslim where prophet says that these companions that did bay'ah at Hudaybiyyah, fire will not touch him. What is the excuse for the protection? Ijtihad:

Hafiz ibn Hajar said that the battles between the Sahabah are based on Ijtihad and Ta’weel and the one who is right will have two rewards (and the mistaken will have a single reward), when this is the case of normal Mujtahid, then Sahabah deserve this more. (‘Isabah’ v 4 p 148)

What a wonderful system you have there.

Edited by Dhulfikar
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Have a look around you, do muslims and shia muslims of today truely know who they really are? most of people religions are based on books or following of forefathers, nothing more nothing less, this is religion for us all today. Being a good human is harder then being a muslim or a shia muslim these days. 

We as shias are already aware of the hate others have on shias, even the enemies of ahlubeit (saw) say they love them (saw) :/ you must understand its much deeper then you think. 

Since we have much knowledge and love for imam(as) we really should be more responsible with sharing knowledge correctly, by simply sharing this to anyone not only do we get foul replies but you also can be responsible for the cause of the disrespect. We have to understand people are different, many are confused, we need to choose the correct treatment for these people.

Who says you need to rush to spread truth to masses, you can focus on individuals even your own families, sons daughters. Share knowledge through love... As love is what attracts people.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Irfan1214 said:

Ok show me that with reference. So, that I may know that by myself.

And even if it is true, it showed people difference between a high person and a low person. Muawyiya ibn Abu Sufiyan issued orders to talk bad about Imam Ali a.s so as which was closed during the time of Umar bin Abdul Aziz. While Imam Ali a.s tried to stop Malik al Ashtar from abusing him. It may be because Hazrat Malik Al Ashtar wanted to show people how their Imam is and how Muawiya was. And we do not abuse anyone but we curse them which is Islamic and Quranic. So, is there is nothing you can do about cursing which Quran has legitimized. 

I'm not saying not to curse. I'm saying that in times of war/fitna/confusion it's better to not attach to personalities but to stick to condeming generalization of bad conduct. It's not Al Ashtar (ra) who talked liked this brother, it were some men in his camp in Kufa. They're not known by name. I've read this in the book ''The succession to Muhammad''.

I've no problem with cursing. In fact, in sunni tradition, Aisha used to curse Muawiyah (la) and all his followers/backers in her qunut in every prayer after she found out what happend with Muhammad ibn abu bakr (ra).

Edited by P. Ease

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On 1/9/2017 at 4:55 AM, Irfan1214 said:

In Quran, it is written that many people will go to hell because of believing in wrong Imams.

A group which will be brought are the among the companions are the wrong imams and whosoever follow those will go along them. Now, it is pretty clear that who wrong imams are that forsake religion after Prophet.

Now, you speak of Bihar al Anwar,  this book is under study for verification purpose. However, considering your words which you quote from Bihar al Anwar as to be authentic,  I would like to tell you that neither our imams nor us are hasty in calling a man mushrik or kafir to hurt them like you call shias now and then as kafir and mushrik.  It is enough to note that Imam calls them "Rebels" which is affirmed by earlier hadith which says that people will be thrown into hell because of being rebellious to Prophet and were called renegades.

As of Imam sadiq a.s, he says we are correct and your pioneer Imam Abu Hanifa was his disciple and never can prove Imam sadiq was not right. So, if Imam says we think we are right. It means other is wrong. But we do not intend to cause harm to you and have respect for you as human beings.

Shia vs sunni is not like ahlebayt vs sahabah. This is your problem.

The reason why shias are most hated by sunnis is exaggeration in following ahlebait and rafidhism.

And the reason why sunnis are most hated by shias is exaggeration in following sahabah and nasibism.

Truth is in the middle course.

Ali says:“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”  Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 126

W.salam.

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6 hours ago, P. Ease said:

I'm not saying not to curse. I'm saying that in times of war/fitna/confusion it's better to not attach to personalities but to stick to condeming generalization of bad conduct. It's not Al Ashtar (ra) who talked liked this brother, it were some men in his camp in Kufa. They're not known by name. I've read this in the book ''The succession to Muhammad''.

I've no problem with cursing. In fact, in sunni tradition, Aisha used to curse Muawiyah (la) and all his followers/backers in her qunut in every prayer after she found out what happend with Muhammad ibn abu bakr (ra).

I also told you this that Malik al Ashtar, never abuses anyone but he cursed enemies of Allah and Ahlul bait a.s.

As for fitna and confusion, there have been fitna throughout centuries. We do not say anything which is against Islam and we do not desire harm to any human being whether it be any Sunni, Christian or Jew. Cursing is a type of worship which is mentioned in Quran. If you say that we do not curse those who divided Muslims into fractions, I think even Allah (SWT) dislikes this idea, because He (AWJ) never exempted those among people of the book who perverted their people. If we stop cursing those, they will remain unexposed. So, we curse every bad doer so that people ask us why you curse and we tell them because of this and that. And if you stop us cursing from bad doers, it means you are sanctioning their wrong deeds. 

 

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

Shia vs sunni is not like ahlebayt vs sahabah. This is your problem.

The reason why shias are most hated by sunnis is exaggeration in following ahlebait and rafidhism.

And the reason why sunnis are most hated by shias is exaggeration in following sahabah and nasibism.

Truth is in the middle course.

Ali says:“With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority of Muslims because Allah’s hand of protection is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is a prey to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is a prey to the wolf. Beware! Whoever calls to this course [of sectarianism], kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine.”  Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 126

W.salam.

Really, we exaggerated in following Ahle bait a.s ? You are unable to prove that. The truth is that Sunnis do not like that truth be told to them. They are very hasty in calling other to the Islam, but when they are told the truth they turn back and cover the wrong doers. What is purpose of Dawah, which you guys carry out in street, what if you come along a debate with a person who call the "Judah" to be good who was even though among the companion of Jesus a.s but deserted Jesus and for 30 silver coins sold his faith to Jews and told about location of Jesus to Jews but Allah (SWT) saved Jesus a.s and Cursed "Judah". 

Do you think that you are on right course by concealing the wrongdoings of people who believed Prophet PBUHHP and got dishonest afterwards ? Is this your middle course ? Quran says: "O! you who believe, be steadfast in justice even against yourselves, or your kin and parents". I did not hear from you a single word that say that those people disobeyed Prophet PBUHHP. and God is watching you. 

Quote of Ali ibn Abi Talib is true, however interpretation is wrong. Those who went ahead of their ways with respect to Ali were Nusairi and those who hate him are Salafis who call Muawyia and Ali are brother brother even though they know that Momin is not brother of unbeliever and days and night are not equal.

Listen, truth is always straightforward, and very difficult for opposition to accept, but a person who accept the truthfulness is brave in the sight of Allah and he his better than a community of people who believe in a lie. Truth is that Sunni brothers allege to Shias something in which they themselves are found guilty.

I have loads of respect for Sunnis because their are many of my friends who are Sunnis and also some who are Deobandi, but when you are speaking about faith, I love my Akhirah more than this Duniya. Whatever Sunni have belief, they have their own graves to answer, I do not personally attack them on account of their beliefs but if they are doing an attack, they will get an appropriate answer.

If you come to argue with Shias, you are going to fail because right cannot be wronged brother. 

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17 hours ago, Irfan1214 said:

Really, we exaggerated in following Ahle bait a.s ? You are unable to prove that. The truth is that Sunnis do not like that truth be told to them. They are very hasty in calling other to the Islam, but when they are told the truth they turn back and cover the wrong doers. What is purpose of Dawah, which you guys carry out in street, what if you come along a debate with a person who call the "Judah" to be good who was even though among the companion of Jesus a.s but deserted Jesus and for 30 silver coins sold his faith to Jews and told about location of Jesus to Jews but Allah (SWT) saved Jesus a.s and Cursed "Judah". 

Do you think that you are on right course by concealing the wrongdoings of people who believed Prophet PBUHHP and got dishonest afterwards ? Is this your middle course ? Quran says: "O! you who believe, be steadfast in justice even against yourselves, or your kin and parents". I did not hear from you a single word that say that those people disobeyed Prophet PBUHHP. and God is watching you. 

Quote of Ali ibn Abi Talib is true, however interpretation is wrong. Those who went ahead of their ways with respect to Ali were Nusairi and those who hate him are Salafis who call Muawyia and Ali are brother brother even though they know that Momin is not brother of unbeliever and days and night are not equal.

Listen, truth is always straightforward, and very difficult for opposition to accept, but a person who accept the truthfulness is brave in the sight of Allah and he his better than a community of people who believe in a lie. Truth is that Sunni brothers allege to Shias something in which they themselves are found guilty.

I have loads of respect for Sunnis because their are many of my friends who are Sunnis and also some who are Deobandi, but when you are speaking about faith, I love my Akhirah more than this Duniya. Whatever Sunni have belief, they have their own graves to answer, I do not personally attack them on account of their beliefs but if they are doing an attack, they will get an appropriate answer.

If you come to argue with Shias, you are going to fail because right cannot be wronged brother. 

Concept of mansoos minallah imamate, is this not exaggeration whose  basis is no where in Quran nor in the words of Imam ALi a.s in nahjul  balagha. With assumptions, lame excuses, and by using weak sources anyone can prove anything.

Yes there were many sahabah who turned away after Prophet s.a.w.w i.e  those who followed false prophets after him. Those who refused to pay  zakat altogether. Actually there were three categories of sahabah as mentioned in  Quran which you dont want to accept. Tauba 100-102. For you sahabah are just few.

Where did I concealed the wrongdoings of sahabah. Explore this thread  I admitted this many times. But you are blind in the love of ahlebayt.  Its not your problem. I also said ameen to your dua where you sent  lanat upon oppressors. Quran also says do justice even if its in the favor of  your enemies. Read nisa 135 and maida 8.

Did I ever defended Muawiya or his son? Ask anyone. I have never done  this on SC. Neither on ************* forum. Check these two threads.

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-shias-by-their-scholars/

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-sunnies-on-their-love-for-sahabah/

You are right truth is very difficult to accept. Thats why you altered  the words of Imam ALi a.s just to prove your man made mansoos minallah  imamate and other beliefs. WHile the truth is that its not even supported by the words  of Imam Ali a.s. Assumptions and derived meanings of the verses of  Quran are not the substitute for truth.

They are twelvers who hide their main books from common public. Kutb e  arba, none of them is open on internet in digital searchable form for  research purposes. WHile on other hand you will find dozens of ahlul  sunnah books on internet. Nothing is hidden (let alone consider sunnah.com). Even you had no knwoledge  about book of sulaim. Majority of twelvers is still following this  man made fabricated book and at the same time they claim we are true followers of ahlebayt.  We do justice. Is this justice or ignorance. Then how can you  understand the truth about muhajirun and ansaar. Its not only about first three caliphs my brother.

You claim to be true shia of Imam ALi a.s. But in reality you are not.  Let me tell you how.

1. You not even care about statements of Imam ALi a.s and is ready to  accept any alteration to his words. Remember what you did and then  said lets not talk about this.

2. Imam ALi a.s never did takfir of those who fought against him.  Neither he called them mushurik nor munafiq. It is mentioned in both shia and sunni books. But you did all this.

3. Imam ALi a.s never cursed anyone as shias are doing today on  mimbar, at home etc. It was muawiya who started the biddah of cursing  Imam ALi a.s. In this regard you are not shia of Ali but shia of  muawiya.

Here are some more examples of exaggeration and majority of twelvers  are invloved in this esp of indo pak region.

And I have seen your way of answering, switching from one topic to  another. You know, you are just like my one shia cousin who has   little knowledge about the twelver books and whose main source of  knowledge is majaalis and history books.

Fe aman Allah.

W.salam

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16 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Concept of mansoos minallah imamate, is this not exaggeration whose  basis is no where in Quran nor in the words of Imam ALi a.s in nahjul  balagha. With assumptions, lame excuses, and by using weak sources anyone can prove anything.

Yes there were many sahabah who turned away after Prophet s.a.w.w i.e  those who followed false prophets after him. Those who refused to pay  zakat altogether. Actually there were three categories of sahabah as mentioned in  Quran which you dont want to accept. Tauba 100-102. For you sahabah are just few.

Where did I concealed the wrongdoings of sahabah. Explore this thread  I admitted this many times. But you are blind in the love of ahlebayt.  Its not your problem. I also said ameen to your dua where you sent  lanat upon oppressors. Quran also says do justice even if its in the favor of  your enemies. Read nisa 135 and maida 8.

Did I ever defended Muawiya or his son? Ask anyone. I have never done  this on SC. Neither on ************* forum. Check these two threads.

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-shias-by-their-scholars/

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-sunnies-on-their-love-for-sahabah/

You are right truth is very difficult to accept. Thats why you altered  the words of Imam ALi a.s just to prove your man made mansoos minallah  imamate and other beliefs. WHile the truth is that its not even supported by the words  of Imam Ali a.s. Assumptions and derived meanings of the verses of  Quran are not the substitute for truth.

They are twelvers who hide their main books from common public. Kutb e  arba, none of them is open on internet in digital searchable form for  research purposes. WHile on other hand you will find dozens of ahlul  sunnah books on internet. Nothing is hidden (let alone consider sunnah.com). Even you had no knwoledge  about book of sulaim. Majority of twelvers is still following this  man made fabricated book and at the same time they claim we are true followers of ahlebayt.  We do justice. Is this justice or ignorance. Then how can you  understand the truth about muhajirun and ansaar. Its not only about first three caliphs my brother.

You claim to be true shia of Imam ALi a.s. But in reality you are not.  Let me tell you how.

1. You not even care about statements of Imam ALi a.s and is ready to  accept any alteration to his words. Remember what you did and then  said lets not talk about this.

2. Imam ALi a.s never did takfir of those who fought against him.  Neither he called them mushurik nor munafiq. It is mentioned in both shia and sunni books. But you did all this.

3. Imam ALi a.s never cursed anyone as shias are doing today on  mimbar, at home etc. It was muawiya who started the biddah of cursing  Imam ALi a.s. In this regard you are not shia of Ali but shia of  muawiya.

Here are some more examples of exaggeration and majority of twelvers  are invloved in this esp of indo pak region.

And I have seen your way of answering, switching from one topic to  another. You know, you are just like my one shia cousin who has   little knowledge about the twelver books and whose main source of  knowledge is majaalis and history books.

Fe aman Allah.

W.salam

If you want to say that we are wrong in Saying that Imams are chosen from Allah (SWT) then I will request you to read in Quran where Allah (SWT) says to Ibrahim a.s: "We have made you an Imam for the nations". Then Hazrat Ibrahim a.s says: "And from my progeny too". Allah (SWT) says: "Surely! yes but my promise is not for the wrong doers". Now, here you can see that wrong doers are not among Imams and you yourself said that your caliphs did mistakes and I can read that they were wrong doers. 

Secondly, read in Sahih Bukhari, where it is written that Prophet PBUHHP says: "There will be twelve Imams after me and all of them will be from Quraish". So, it is not your Caliphs whom you believe because Imamate is promised to righteous ones among Quran who be much knowledgeable and Courageous and your leaders do not fit into that criteria. 

Now, what you say is not according to Quran. Allah (SWT) chooses Imams, if you choose Imams know that they can be wronged like you but if Allah (SWT) chooses someone, they cannot be wronged. Now, will you follow Ibrahim who asked Allah (SWT) for coming Imams or else your own desire ? 

Ali a.s words are quite clear, he called them rebels, and Prophet called them renegades. I do not think there can be more explicit words then these. And if someone is rebellious to Islam, it can be anyone else except Muslim.

Edited by Irfan1214

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Ok. I know things which verify my belief, it is sufficient for me to have that much of knowledge. Alhamdolilah :D

Fe Aman Allah 

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8 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Concept of mansoos minallah imamate, is this not exaggeration whose  basis is no where in Quran nor in the words of Imam ALi a.s in nahjul  balagha. With assumptions, lame excuses, and by using weak sources anyone can prove anything.

Yes there were many sahabah who turned away after Prophet s.a.w.w i.e  those who followed false prophets after him. Those who refused to pay  zakat altogether. Actually there were three categories of sahabah as mentioned in  Quran which you dont want to accept. Tauba 100-102. For you sahabah are just few.

Where did I concealed the wrongdoings of sahabah. Explore this thread  I admitted this many times. But you are blind in the love of ahlebayt.  Its not your problem. I also said ameen to your dua where you sent  lanat upon oppressors. Quran also says do justice even if its in the favor of  your enemies. Read nisa 135 and maida 8.

Did I ever defended Muawiya or his son? Ask anyone. I have never done  this on SC. Neither on ************* forum. Check these two threads.

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-shias-by-their-scholars/

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-sunnies-on-their-love-for-sahabah/

You are right truth is very difficult to accept. Thats why you altered  the words of Imam ALi a.s just to prove your man made mansoos minallah  imamate and other beliefs. WHile the truth is that its not even supported by the words  of Imam Ali a.s. Assumptions and derived meanings of the verses of  Quran are not the substitute for truth.

They are twelvers who hide their main books from common public. Kutb e  arba, none of them is open on internet in digital searchable form for  research purposes. WHile on other hand you will find dozens of ahlul  sunnah books on internet. Nothing is hidden (let alone consider sunnah.com). Even you had no knwoledge  about book of sulaim. Majority of twelvers is still following this  man made fabricated book and at the same time they claim we are true followers of ahlebayt.  We do justice. Is this justice or ignorance. Then how can you  understand the truth about muhajirun and ansaar. Its not only about first three caliphs my brother.

You claim to be true shia of Imam ALi a.s. But in reality you are not.  Let me tell you how.

1. You not even care about statements of Imam ALi a.s and is ready to  accept any alteration to his words. Remember what you did and then  said lets not talk about this.

2. Imam ALi a.s never did takfir of those who fought against him.  Neither he called them mushurik nor munafiq. It is mentioned in both shia and sunni books. But you did all this.

3. Imam ALi a.s never cursed anyone as shias are doing today on  mimbar, at home etc. It was muawiya who started the biddah of cursing  Imam ALi a.s. In this regard you are not shia of Ali but shia of  muawiya.

Here are some more examples of exaggeration and majority of twelvers  are invloved in this esp of indo pak region.

And I have seen your way of answering, switching from one topic to  another. You know, you are just like my one shia cousin who has   little knowledge about the twelver books and whose main source of  knowledge is majaalis and history books.

Fe aman Allah.

W.salam

Salam Alykom

Brother, I'm pretty sure you yourself know that what you're saying is not true, specially the part about our scholars "hiding" stuff from us regular people just because everything isn't available in English... The books (wether in Arabic or any other language) are available for the public and have always been since the beginning, so there is nothing to "hide".

O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do. - Quran [4:135]

 

I've noticed that you really like quoting only from Nahjul Balagha and want everything part of our faith to be included there. However I want to remind you that Nahjul Balagha is a source of sermons (hadiths) and a collection just like any other book. So the book may contain both authentic and unauthentic stuff, so you can not really say that Shias are going against Imam Ali A.S, if there are other authentic sources that agrees with the things Shias believe. If something isn't included in Sahih Bukhari but in other authentic Sunni books, would you claim that it isn't true or valid? Same with Nahjul Balagha, just because a topic or something isn't mentioned there doesn't mean that it isn't true or that Imam Ali A.S never said so... It's just a book with sermons and hadiths collected by one of our scholars, and obviously everything can't be included there.

 

Anyhow here are some quotes from Nahjul Balagha since you seem to prefer it and believe it to be Imam Ali's A.S words for sure:

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 97.

 

Look at the people of the Prophet's family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind of them as you would thereby be ruined.

انْظُرُوا أَهْلَ بَيْتِ نَبِيِّكُمْ فَالْزَمُوا سَمْتَهُمْ، وَاتَّبِعُوا أَثَرَهُمْ فَلَنْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِنْ هُدىً، وَلَنْ يُعِيدُوكُمْ فِي رَدىً، فَإِنْ لَبَدُوا فَالْبُدُوا، وَإِنْ نَهَضُوا فَانْهَضُوا، وَلاَ تَسْبِقُوهُمْ فَتَضِلُّوا، وَلاَ تَتَأَخَّرُوا عَنْهُمْ فَتَهْلِكُوا.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-97-although-Allah-gives-time-oppressor#about-household-holy-prophet

 

In the same sermon, Imam Ali A.S even talks about Prophet's S.A.W companions:

 

I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind.

لَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ أَصْحَابَ مُحَمَّد (صلى الله عليه وآله)، فَمَا أَرَى أَحَداً يُشْبِهُهُمْ مِنْكُمْ! لَقَدْ كَانُوا يُصْبِحُونَ شُعْثاً غُبْراً، قَدْ بَاتُوا سُجّداً وَقِيَاماً، يُرَاوِحُونَ بَيْنَ جِبَاهِهِمْ وَخُدُودِهِمْ، وَيَقِفُونَ عَلَى مِثْلِ الْجَمْرِ مِنْ ذِكْرِ مَعَادِهِمْ! كَأَنَّ بَيْنَ أَعْيُنهِمْ رُكَبَ الْمِعْزَى مِنْ طُولِ سُجُودِهِمْ! إِذَا ذُكِرَ اللهُ هَمَلَتْ أَعْيُنُهُمْ حَتَّى تَبُلَّ جُيُوبَهُمْ، وَمَادُوا كَمَا يَمِيدُ

 

Just wanted to share it since it comes from the same sermon, so you don't think that we tried to "hide" it or that it is against our belief. Of course the Prophet S.A.W had many good companions, both those who died during his time or those who even supported Imam Ali A.S during his caliphate. You may think that Shias believes all of Prophet's SAW companions to be kafirs (staghfurallah) but that is obviously wrong. Even if there are Shias or scholars who have said so, we got narrations that talks about there excellence. Also the narrations that speaks about only four companions being on the right after Prophet's SAW demise is only regarding Imam Ali's AS wilayah (according what I've read) and not about them exiting Islam at all. Of course there where companions who "...passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers" etc. as is mentioned in the above narration. 

I've shared a pretty good article regarding this in my last post. 

Again, no doubt that there are probably Shias who go to the extreme or maybe believe that all Sahabas are kafirs or something like that, but that shouldn't be a reason to ignore narrations etc. that talks about Imam Ali's AS right or other good things within the Shi'ites.

 

Please correct me if I've said anything wrong. 

 

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 152.

The riser has risen, the sparkler has sparkled, the appearer has appeared and the curved has been straightened. Allah has replaced one people with another and one day with another. We awaited these changes as the famine-stricken await the rain. Certainly the Imams are the vicegerents of Allah over His creatures and they make the creatures know Allah. No one will enter Paradise except he who knows them and knows Him, and no one will enter Hell except he who denies them and denies Him.

فَقَدْ طَلَعَ طَالِعٌ، وَلَمَعَ لاَ مِعٌ، وَلاَحَ لاَئِحٌ، وَاعْتَدَلَ مَائِلٌ، وَاسْتَبْدَلَ اللهُ بِقَوْم قَوْماً، وَبِيَوم يَوْماً، وَانْتَظَرْنَا الْغِيَرَ انْتِظَارَ الْـمُجْدِبِ الْمَطَرَ. وَإِنَّمَا الاَئِمَّةُ قُوَّامُ اللهِ عَلَى خَلْقِهِ، وَعُرَفَاؤُهُ عَلَى عِبَادِهِ، لاَ يَدْخُلُ الْجَنَّةَ إِلاَّ مَنْ عَرَفَهُمْ وَعَرَفُوهُ، وَلاَ يَدْخُلُ النَّارَ

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-152-praise-be-Allah-who-is#part-same-sermon-about-divine-leaders-imams

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 144.

 

Where are those who falsely and unjustly claimed that they are deeply versed in knowledge, as against us, although Allah raised us in position and kept them down, bestowed upon us knowledge but deprived them, and entered us (in the fortress of knowledge) but kept them out. With us guidance is to be sought and blindness (of misguidance) is to be changed into brightness. Surely the Imams (divine leaders) will be from the Quraysh. They have been planted in this line through Hashim. It would not suit others nor would others be suitable as heads of affairs.

أَيْنَ الَّذِينَ زَعَمُوا أَنَّهُمُ الرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ دُونَنَا، كَذِباً وَبَغْياً عَلَيْنَا، أَنْ رَفَعَنَا اللهُ وَوَضَعَهُمْ، وَأَعْطَانَا وَحَرَمَهُمْ، وَأَدْخَلَنَا وَأَخْرَجَهُمْ. بِنَا يُسْتَعْطَى الْهُدَى، وَبِنَا يُسْتَجْلَى الْعَمَى. إِنَّ الاْئِمَّةَ مِنْ قُرَيش غُرِسُوا فِي هذَا الْبَطْنِ مِنْ هَاشِم، لاَ تَصْلُحُ

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-144-Allah-deputed-prophets

 

This confirms with the hadith about 12 Imams / Caliphs being from Quraysh that Prophet S.A.W talked about, so how can Shura (consultation) be a way to choose a caliph. Here Imam Ali A.S even further confirms our view that the Imams A.S will be "in this line through Hashim".

 

Nahjul Balagha Letter 28.

 

Better leave those whose arrows miss the mark. We are the direct recipients of our Lord's favours while others receive favours from us after that. In spite of our old established honour and our well-known superiority over your people, we did not stay away from mixing with you and married and got married (among you) like equals although you were not so. And how could you be so when (the position is that) among us is the Prophet while among you is the opposer, among us is the lion of Allah while among you is the lion of the opposing groups, among us are the two masters of the youth of Paradise while among you are the children of Hell, among us is the choicest of all the women of the worlds while among you is the bearer of firewood, and many more distinctions on our side and shortcomings on your side.

فَدَعْ عَنْكَ مَنْ مَالَتْ بِه الرَّمِيَّةُ، فَإِنَّا صَنَائِعُ رَبِّنَا، وَالنَّاسُ بَعْدُ صَنَائِعُ لَنَا. لَمْ يَمْنَعْنَا قَدِيمُ عِزِّنَا وَلاَ عَادِيُّ طَوْلِنَا عَلَى قَوْمِكَ أَنْ خَلَطْنَاكُمْ بَأَنفُسِنَا، فَنَكَحْنَا وَأَنْكَحْنا، فِعْلَ الاْكْفَاءِ، وَلَسْتُمْ هُنَاكَ! وَأَنَّى يَكُونُ ذلِكَ كَذَلِكَ وَمِنَّا النَّبِيُّ وَمِنْكُمُ الْمُكَذِّبُ، وَمِنَّا أَسَدُ اللهِ وَمِنْكُمْ أَسَدُ الاْحْلاَفِ، وَمِنَّا سَيِّدَا شَبَابِ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ وَمِنْكُمْ صِبْيَةُ النَّارِ، وَمِنَّا خَيْرُ نِسَاءِ الْعَالَمِينِ وَمِنْكُمْ حَمَّالَةُ الْحَطَبِ، فِي كَثِير مِمَّا لَنَا وَعَلَيْكُمْ!

...
 

 

Thus, we are superior firstly because of kinship and secondly because of obedience. When at Saqifah (of Banu Sa'idah) the Muhajirun contended kinship with the Messenger of Allah (S) against the Ansar, they scored over them. If that success was based on kinship then the right would be ours better than yours. Otherwise, the Ansar's contention stands. You think that I have been jealous of every caliph and have revolted against them. Even if this be so, it is not an offence against you and therefore no explanation is due to you.

This is a matter for which no blame comes to you”.

فَنَحْنُ مَرَّةً أوْلَى بِالْقَرَابَةِ، وَتَارَةً أَوْلَى بِالطَّاعَةِ. وَلَمَّا احْتَجَّ الْمُهَاجِرُونَ عَلَى الاْنْصَارِ يَوْمَ السَّقِيفَةِ بِرَسُولِ الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) فَلَجُوا عَلَيْهِمْ، فَإِنْ يَكُنِ الْفَلَجُ بِهِ فَالْحَقُّ لَنَا دُونَكُمْ، وَإِنْ يَكُنْ بِغَيْرِهِ فَالاْنْصَارُ عَلَى دَعْوَاهُمْ.

وَزَعَمْتَ أَنِّي لِكُلِّ الْخُلَفَاءِ حَسَدْتُ، وَعَلَى كُلِّهِمْ بَغَيْتُ، فَإِنْ يَكُنْ ذلِكَ كَذلِكَ فَلَيْسَ الْجِنَايَةُ عَلَيْكَ، فَيَكُونَ الْعُذْرُ إِلَيْكَ.

 
 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-28-reply-muawiyah-and-it-one-ot-his-most-elegant

 

Note that the letter above shows how Imam Ali A.S is talking about Saqifah, and using the kinship thing as an argument against Muawiyah. Same thing could be said with Letter 6 where Imam Ali A.S talked about Shura, as many others likes to quote against Shias, Imam Ali A.S could have just said what he said regarding it as an argument against Muawiya. Allahu Aalam.

 

Another interesting part of the same letter:

 

You have said that I was dragged like a camel with a nose string to swear allegiance (to Abu Bakr at Saqifah). By the Eternal Allah, you had intended to revile me but you have praised me, and to humiliate me but have yourself been humiliated. What humiliation does it mean for a Muslim to be the victim of oppression so long as he does not entertain any doubt in his religion, nor any misgiving in his firm belief! This argument of mine is intended for others, but I have stated it to you only in so far as it was appropriate.

وَقُلْتَ: إِنِّي كُنْتُ أُقَادُ كَمَا يُقَادُ الْجَمَلُ الْـمَخْشُوشُ حَتَّى أُبَايِعَ، وَلَعَمْرُ اللهِ لَقَدْ أَرَدْتَ أَنْ تَذُمَّ فَمَدَحْتَ، وَأَنْ تَفْضَحَ فَافْتَضَحْتَ! وَمَا عَلَى الْمُسْلِمِ مِنْ غَضَاضَة فِي أَنْ يَكُونَ مَظْلُوماً مَا لَمْ يَكُنْ شَاكّاً فِي دِينِهِ، وَلاَ مُرْتَاباً بِيَقِينِهِ!

وَهذِهِ حُجَّتِي إِلَى غَيْرِكَ قَصْدُهَا، وَلكِنِّي أَطْلَقْتُ لَكَ مِنْهَا بِقَدْرِ مَا سَنَحَ مِنْ ذِكْرِهَا.

 

Interestingly, this part kind of confirms a part of the story regarding the burning of Fatimah's SA house (where it was said that Imam Ali A.S was forced to pay allegiance), I think this story was found in The book of Sulaym ibn Qays if I remember right so it's interesting to see another source confirming something from that book (as it is believed that the book isn't fully authentic). But anyway I am not a scholar and can not say if this is authentic or not, at the end Allah SWT is the One who knows what truly happened.

Regarding the book The book of Sulaym ibn Qays, you keep mentioning it like it's the foundation of Shi'ism or something. There are other authentic narrations in other books confirming what Shias believe in, and confirming some things which exists in this book as well. This is a reason why many believe The book of Sulaym ibn Qays contains authentic narrations, since there are other books confirming those that exists in Sulaym's book. However I agree that it is wrong to believe that it is fully authentic, but as previously mentioned Shias got other books and just because those other sources mentions same things as Sulaym's book does, doesn't have to mean that it comes from this book...

 

 

 

Some other letters that is said to show us Imam Ali's A.S real view of Muawiya (you can not take one narration that says that Muawiya is like a brother who "only" rebel against him and believe that this is how Imam Ali A.S really thought of him, you have to look at all the narrations or letters that exists and see what Imam Ali A.S really meant like Shias do). 

 

Letter 32: To Mu'awiyah

 

You have ruined a large group of people whom you have deceived by your misguidance, and have flung them into the currents of your sea where darkness has covered them and misgivings toss them about. As a result they have strayed from the right path and turned on their backs. They turned their backs and pushed forward except those wise ones who came back because they left you after understanding you and ran towards Allah away from your assistance when you put them to troubles and deviated them from the middle path. Therefore, O Mu'awiyah, fear Allah about yourself and take away your rein from Satan, since this world is shortly to be cut off from you and the next world is near you; and that is an end to the matter.

وَأَرْدَيْتَ جِيلاً مِنَ النَّاسِ كَثِيراً، خَدَعْتَهُمْ بِغَيِّكَ، وَأَلْقَيْتَهُمْ فِي مَوْجِ بَحْرِكَ، تَغْشَاهُمُ الظُّلُمَاتُ،تَتَلاَطَمُ بِهِمُ الشُّبُهَاتُ، فَجاروا عَنْ وِجْهَتِهِمْ، وَنَكَصُوا عَلَى أَعْقَابِهِمْ، وَتَوَلَّوْا عَلَى أَدْبَارِهِمْ، وَعَوَّلُوا عَلَى أحْسَابِهِمْ، إِلاَّ مَنْ فَاءَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْبَصَائِرِ، فَإِنَّهُمْ فَارَقُوكَ بَعْدَ مَعْرِفَتِكَ، وَهَرَبُوا إِلَى اللهِ سُبحانَهُ مِنْ مُوَازَرَتِكَ، إِذْ حَمَلْتَهُمْ عَلَى الصَّعْبِ، وَعَدَلْتَ بِهِمْ عَنِ الْقَصْدِ.

فَاتَّقِ اللهَ يَا مُعَاوِيَةُ فِي نَفْسِكَ، وَجَاذِبِ الشَّيْطَانَ قيَادَكَ، فَإِنَّ الدُّنْيَا مُنْقَطِعَةٌ عَنْكَ،

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-32-muawiyah

 

Letter 64: To Mu'awiyah

 

Now then, certainly, we and you were on amiable terms as you say but difference arose between us and you the other day, when we accepted belief (iman) and you rejected it. Today the position is that we are steadfast (in the belief) but you are creating mischief. Those of you who accepted Islam did so reluctantly and that too when all the chief men had accepted Islam and joined the Messenger of Allah- (may Allah bless him and his descendants).

أَمَّا بَعْدُ، فَإِنَّا كُنَّا نَحْنُ وَأَنْتُمْ عَلَى مَا ذَكَرْتَ مِنَ الاْلْفَةِ وَالْجَمَاعَةِ، فَفَرَّقَ بيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمْ أَمْسِ أَنَّا آمَنَّا وَكَفَرْتُمْ، وَالْيَوْمَ أَنَّا اسْتَقَمْنَا وَفُتِنْتُمْ، وَمَا أَسْلَمَ مُسْلِمُكُمْ إِلاَّ كَرْهاً، وَبَعْدَ أَنْ كَانَ أَنْفُ الاْسْلاَمِ كُلُّهُ لِرَسُولِ اللهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله) حرباً.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-64-reply-muawiyah

 

_____

 

There are probably more sermons in Nahjul Balagha about Imamat / Ahlulbayt A.S right so if anyone got their references please share them.

 

 

Just wanted to share my thoughts, and if I've said anything wrong please correct me. 

May Allah SWT guide us all to the straight path. 

Wsalam

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8 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Concept of mansoos minallah imamate, is this not exaggeration whose  basis is no where in Quran nor in the words of Imam ALi a.s in nahjul  balagha. With assumptions, lame excuses, and by using weak sources anyone can prove anything.

Yes there were many sahabah who turned away after Prophet s.a.w.w i.e  those who followed false prophets after him. Those who refused to pay  zakat altogether. Actually there were three categories of sahabah as mentioned in  Quran which you dont want to accept. Tauba 100-102. For you sahabah are just few.

Where did I concealed the wrongdoings of sahabah. Explore this thread  I admitted this many times. But you are blind in the love of ahlebayt.  Its not your problem. I also said ameen to your dua where you sent  lanat upon oppressors. Quran also says do justice even if its in the favor of  your enemies. Read nisa 135 and maida 8.

Did I ever defended Muawiya or his son? Ask anyone. I have never done  this on SC. Neither on ************* forum. Check these two threads.

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-shias-by-their-scholars/

http://forum.*************/general-sunni-vs-shia/biggest-fraud-that-was-done-to-sunnies-on-their-love-for-sahabah/

You are right truth is very difficult to accept. Thats why you altered  the words of Imam ALi a.s just to prove your man made mansoos minallah  imamate and other beliefs. WHile the truth is that its not even supported by the words  of Imam Ali a.s. Assumptions and derived meanings of the verses of  Quran are not the substitute for truth.

They are twelvers who hide their main books from common public. Kutb e  arba, none of them is open on internet in digital searchable form for  research purposes. WHile on other hand you will find dozens of ahlul  sunnah books on internet. Nothing is hidden (let alone consider sunnah.com). Even you had no knwoledge  about book of sulaim. Majority of twelvers is still following this  man made fabricated book and at the same time they claim we are true followers of ahlebayt.  We do justice. Is this justice or ignorance. Then how can you  understand the truth about muhajirun and ansaar. Its not only about first three caliphs my brother.

You claim to be true shia of Imam ALi a.s. But in reality you are not.  Let me tell you how.

1. You not even care about statements of Imam ALi a.s and is ready to  accept any alteration to his words. Remember what you did and then  said lets not talk about this.

2. Imam ALi a.s never did takfir of those who fought against him.  Neither he called them mushurik nor munafiq. It is mentioned in both shia and sunni books. But you did all this.

3. Imam ALi a.s never cursed anyone as shias are doing today on  mimbar, at home etc. It was muawiya who started the biddah of cursing  Imam ALi a.s. In this regard you are not shia of Ali but shia of  muawiya.

Here are some more examples of exaggeration and majority of twelvers  are invloved in this esp of indo pak region.

And I have seen your way of answering, switching from one topic to  another. You know, you are just like my one shia cousin who has   little knowledge about the twelver books and whose main source of  knowledge is majaalis and history books.

Fe aman Allah.

W.salam

Salam Alykom

Brother, I'm pretty sure you yourself know that what you're saying is not true, specially the part about our scholars "hiding" stuff from us regular people just because everything isn't available in English... The books (wether in Arabic or any other language) are available for the public and have always been since the beginning, so there is nothing to "hide".

O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do. - Quran [4:135]

 

I've noticed that you really like quoting only from Nahjul Balagha and want everything part of our faith to be included there. However I want to remind you that Nahjul Balagha is a source of sermons (hadiths) and a collection just like any other book. So the book may contain both authentic and unauthentic stuff, so you can not really say that Shias are going against Imam Ali A.S, if there are other authentic sources that agrees with the things Shias believe. If something isn't included in Sahih Bukhari but in other authentic Sunni books, would you claim that it isn't true or valid? Same with Nahjul Balagha, just because a topic or something isn't mentioned there doesn't mean that it isn't true or that Imam Ali A.S never said so... It's just a book with sermons and hadiths collected by one of our scholars, and obviously everything can't be included there.

 

Anyhow here are some quotes from Nahjul Balagha since you seem to prefer it and believe it to be Imam Ali's A.S words for sure:

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 97.

 

Look at the people of the Prophet's family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind of them as you would thereby be ruined.

انْظُرُوا أَهْلَ بَيْتِ نَبِيِّكُمْ فَالْزَمُوا سَمْتَهُمْ، وَاتَّبِعُوا أَثَرَهُمْ فَلَنْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِنْ هُدىً، وَلَنْ يُعِيدُوكُمْ فِي رَدىً، فَإِنْ لَبَدُوا فَالْبُدُوا، وَإِنْ نَهَضُوا فَانْهَضُوا، وَلاَ تَسْبِقُوهُمْ فَتَضِلُّوا، وَلاَ تَتَأَخَّرُوا عَنْهُمْ فَتَهْلِكُوا.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-97-although-Allah-gives-time-oppressor#about-household-holy-prophet

 

In the same sermon, Imam Ali A.S even talks about Prophet's S.A.W companions:

 

I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind.

لَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ أَصْحَابَ مُحَمَّد (صلى الله عليه وآله)، فَمَا أَرَى أَحَداً يُشْبِهُهُمْ مِنْكُمْ! لَقَدْ كَانُوا يُصْبِحُونَ شُعْثاً غُبْراً، قَدْ بَاتُوا سُجّداً وَقِيَاماً، يُرَاوِحُونَ بَيْنَ جِبَاهِهِمْ وَخُدُودِهِمْ، وَيَقِفُونَ عَلَى مِثْلِ الْجَمْرِ مِنْ ذِكْرِ مَعَادِهِمْ! كَأَنَّ بَيْنَ أَعْيُنهِمْ رُكَبَ الْمِعْزَى مِنْ طُولِ سُجُودِهِمْ! إِذَا ذُكِرَ اللهُ هَمَلَتْ أَعْيُنُهُمْ حَتَّى تَبُلَّ جُيُوبَهُمْ، وَمَادُوا كَمَا يَمِيدُ

 

Just wanted to share it since it comes from the same sermon, so you don't think that we tried to "hide" it or that it is against our belief. Of course the Prophet S.A.W had many good companions, both those who died during his time or those who even supported Imam Ali A.S during his caliphate. You may think that Shias believes all of Prophet's SAW companions to be kafirs (staghfurallah) but that is obviously wrong. Even if there are Shias or scholars who have said so, we got narrations that talks about there excellence. Also the narrations that speaks about only four companions being on the right after Prophet's SAW demise is only regarding Imam Ali's AS wilayah (according what I've read) and not about them exiting Islam at all. Of course there where companions who "...passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers" etc. as is mentioned in the above narration. 

I've shared a pretty good article regarding this in my last post. 

Again, no doubt that there are probably Shias who go to the extreme or maybe believe that all Sahabas are kafirs or something like that, but that shouldn't be a reason to ignore narrations etc. that talks about Imam Ali's AS right or other good things within the Shi'ites.

 

Please correct me if I've said anything wrong. 

 

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 152.

The riser has risen, the sparkler has sparkled, the appearer has appeared and the curved has been straightened. Allah has replaced one people with another and one day with another. We awaited these changes as the famine-stricken await the rain. Certainly the Imams are the vicegerents of Allah over His creatures and they make the creatures know Allah. No one will enter Paradise except he who knows them and knows Him, and no one will enter Hell except he who denies them and denies Him.

فَقَدْ طَلَعَ طَالِعٌ، وَلَمَعَ لاَ مِعٌ، وَلاَحَ لاَئِحٌ، وَاعْتَدَلَ مَائِلٌ، وَاسْتَبْدَلَ اللهُ بِقَوْم قَوْماً، وَبِيَوم يَوْماً، وَانْتَظَرْنَا الْغِيَرَ انْتِظَارَ الْـمُجْدِبِ الْمَطَرَ. وَإِنَّمَا الاَئِمَّةُ قُوَّامُ اللهِ عَلَى خَلْقِهِ، وَعُرَفَاؤُهُ عَلَى عِبَادِهِ، لاَ يَدْخُلُ الْجَنَّةَ إِلاَّ مَنْ عَرَفَهُمْ وَعَرَفُوهُ، وَلاَ يَدْخُلُ النَّارَ

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-152-praise-be-Allah-who-is#part-same-sermon-about-divine-leaders-imams

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 144.

 

Where are those who falsely and unjustly claimed that they are deeply versed in knowledge, as against us, although Allah raised us in position and kept them down, bestowed upon us knowledge but deprived them, and entered us (in the fortress of knowledge) but kept them out. With us guidance is to be sought and blindness (of misguidance) is to be changed into brightness. Surely the Imams (divine leaders) will be from the Quraysh. They have been planted in this line through Hashim. It would not suit others nor would others be suitable as heads of affairs.

أَيْنَ الَّذِينَ زَعَمُوا أَنَّهُمُ الرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ دُونَنَا، كَذِباً وَبَغْياً عَلَيْنَا، أَنْ رَفَعَنَا اللهُ وَوَضَعَهُمْ، وَأَعْطَانَا وَحَرَمَهُمْ، وَأَدْخَلَنَا وَأَخْرَجَهُمْ. بِنَا يُسْتَعْطَى الْهُدَى، وَبِنَا يُسْتَجْلَى الْعَمَى. إِنَّ الاْئِمَّةَ مِنْ قُرَيش غُرِسُوا فِي هذَا الْبَطْنِ مِنْ هَاشِم، لاَ تَصْلُحُ

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-144-Allah-deputed-prophets

 

This confirms with the hadith about 12 Imams / Caliphs being from Quraysh that Prophet S.A.W talked about, so how can Shura (consultation) be a way to choose a caliph. Here Imam Ali A.S even further confirms our view that the Imams A.S will be "in this line through Hashim".

 

Nahjul Balagha Letter 28.

 

Better leave those whose arrows miss the mark. We are the direct recipients of our Lord's favours while others receive favours from us after that. In spite of our old established honour and our well-known superiority over your people, we did not stay away from mixing with you and married and got married (among you) like equals although you were not so. And how could you be so when (the position is that) among us is the Prophet while among you is the opposer, among us is the lion of Allah while among you is the lion of the opposing groups, among us are the two masters of the youth of Paradise while among you are the children of Hell, among us is the choicest of all the women of the worlds while among you is the bearer of firewood, and many more distinctions on our side and shortcomings on your side.

فَدَعْ عَنْكَ مَنْ مَالَتْ بِه الرَّمِيَّةُ، فَإِنَّا صَنَائِعُ رَبِّنَا، وَالنَّاسُ بَعْدُ صَنَائِعُ لَنَا. لَمْ يَمْنَعْنَا قَدِيمُ عِزِّنَا وَلاَ عَادِيُّ طَوْلِنَا عَلَى قَوْمِكَ أَنْ خَلَطْنَاكُمْ بَأَنفُسِنَا، فَنَكَحْنَا وَأَنْكَحْنا، فِعْلَ الاْكْفَاءِ، وَلَسْتُمْ هُنَاكَ! وَأَنَّى يَكُونُ ذلِكَ كَذَلِكَ وَمِنَّا النَّبِيُّ وَمِنْكُمُ الْمُكَذِّبُ، وَمِنَّا أَسَدُ اللهِ وَمِنْكُمْ أَسَدُ الاْحْلاَفِ، وَمِنَّا سَيِّدَا شَبَابِ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ وَمِنْكُمْ صِبْيَةُ النَّارِ، وَمِنَّا خَيْرُ نِسَاءِ الْعَالَمِينِ وَمِنْكُمْ حَمَّالَةُ الْحَطَبِ، فِي كَثِير مِمَّا لَنَا وَعَلَيْكُمْ!

...
 

 

Thus, we are superior firstly because of kinship and secondly because of obedience. When at Saqifah (of Banu Sa'idah) the Muhajirun contended kinship with the Messenger of Allah (S) against the Ansar, they scored over them. If that success was based on kinship then the right would be ours better than yours. Otherwise, the Ansar's contention stands. You think that I have been jealous of every caliph and have revolted against them. Even if this be so, it is not an offence against you and therefore no explanation is due to you.

This is a matter for which no blame comes to you”.

فَنَحْنُ مَرَّةً أوْلَى بِالْقَرَابَةِ، وَتَارَةً أَوْلَى بِالطَّاعَةِ. وَلَمَّا احْتَجَّ الْمُهَاجِرُونَ عَلَى الاْنْصَارِ يَوْمَ السَّقِيفَةِ بِرَسُولِ الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) فَلَجُوا عَلَيْهِمْ، فَإِنْ يَكُنِ الْفَلَجُ بِهِ فَالْحَقُّ لَنَا دُونَكُمْ، وَإِنْ يَكُنْ بِغَيْرِهِ فَالاْنْصَارُ عَلَى دَعْوَاهُمْ.

وَزَعَمْتَ أَنِّي لِكُلِّ الْخُلَفَاءِ حَسَدْتُ، وَعَلَى كُلِّهِمْ بَغَيْتُ، فَإِنْ يَكُنْ ذلِكَ كَذلِكَ فَلَيْسَ الْجِنَايَةُ عَلَيْكَ، فَيَكُونَ الْعُذْرُ إِلَيْكَ.

 
 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-28-reply-muawiyah-and-it-one-ot-his-most-elegant

 

Note that the letter above shows how Imam Ali A.S is talking about Saqifah, and using the kinship thing as an argument against Muawiyah. Same thing could be said with Letter 6 where Imam Ali A.S talked about Shura, as many others likes to quote against Shias, Imam Ali A.S could have just said what he said regarding it as an argument against Muawiya. Allahu Aalam.

 

Another interesting part of the same letter:

 

You have said that I was dragged like a camel with a nose string to swear allegiance (to Abu Bakr at Saqifah). By the Eternal Allah, you had intended to revile me but you have praised me, and to humiliate me but have yourself been humiliated. What humiliation does it mean for a Muslim to be the victim of oppression so long as he does not entertain any doubt in his religion, nor any misgiving in his firm belief! This argument of mine is intended for others, but I have stated it to you only in so far as it was appropriate.

وَقُلْتَ: إِنِّي كُنْتُ أُقَادُ كَمَا يُقَادُ الْجَمَلُ الْـمَخْشُوشُ حَتَّى أُبَايِعَ، وَلَعَمْرُ اللهِ لَقَدْ أَرَدْتَ أَنْ تَذُمَّ فَمَدَحْتَ، وَأَنْ تَفْضَحَ فَافْتَضَحْتَ! وَمَا عَلَى الْمُسْلِمِ مِنْ غَضَاضَة فِي أَنْ يَكُونَ مَظْلُوماً مَا لَمْ يَكُنْ شَاكّاً فِي دِينِهِ، وَلاَ مُرْتَاباً بِيَقِينِهِ!

وَهذِهِ حُجَّتِي إِلَى غَيْرِكَ قَصْدُهَا، وَلكِنِّي أَطْلَقْتُ لَكَ مِنْهَا بِقَدْرِ مَا سَنَحَ مِنْ ذِكْرِهَا.

 

Interestingly, this part kind of confirms a part of the story regarding the burning of Fatimah's SA house (where it was said that Imam Ali A.S was forced to pay allegiance), I think this story was found in The book of Sulaym ibn Qays if I remember right so it's interesting to see another source confirming something from that book (as it is believed that the book isn't fully authentic). But anyway I am not a scholar and can not say if this is authentic or not, at the end Allah SWT is the One who knows what truly happened.

Regarding the book The book of Sulaym ibn Qays, you keep mentioning it like it's the foundation of Shi'ism or something. There are other authentic narrations in other books confirming what Shias believe in, and confirming some things which exists in this book as well. This is a reason why many believe The book of Sulaym ibn Qays contains authentic narrations, since there are other books confirming those that exists in Sulaym's book. However I agree that it is wrong to believe that it is fully authentic, but as previously mentioned Shias got other books and just because those other sources mentions same things as Sulaym's book does, doesn't have to mean that it comes from this book...

 

 

 

Some other letters that is said to show us Imam Ali's A.S real view of Muawiya (you can not take one narration that says that Muawiya is like a brother who "only" rebel against him and believe that this is how Imam Ali A.S really thought of him, you have to look at all the narrations or letters that exists and see what Imam Ali A.S really meant like Shias do). 

 

Letter 32: To Mu'awiyah

 

You have ruined a large group of people whom you have deceived by your misguidance, and have flung them into the currents of your sea where darkness has covered them and misgivings toss them about. As a result they have strayed from the right path and turned on their backs. They turned their backs and pushed forward except those wise ones who came back because they left you after understanding you and ran towards Allah away from your assistance when you put them to troubles and deviated them from the middle path. Therefore, O Mu'awiyah, fear Allah about yourself and take away your rein from Satan, since this world is shortly to be cut off from you and the next world is near you; and that is an end to the matter.

وَأَرْدَيْتَ جِيلاً مِنَ النَّاسِ كَثِيراً، خَدَعْتَهُمْ بِغَيِّكَ، وَأَلْقَيْتَهُمْ فِي مَوْجِ بَحْرِكَ، تَغْشَاهُمُ الظُّلُمَاتُ،تَتَلاَطَمُ بِهِمُ الشُّبُهَاتُ، فَجاروا عَنْ وِجْهَتِهِمْ، وَنَكَصُوا عَلَى أَعْقَابِهِمْ، وَتَوَلَّوْا عَلَى أَدْبَارِهِمْ، وَعَوَّلُوا عَلَى أحْسَابِهِمْ، إِلاَّ مَنْ فَاءَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْبَصَائِرِ، فَإِنَّهُمْ فَارَقُوكَ بَعْدَ مَعْرِفَتِكَ، وَهَرَبُوا إِلَى اللهِ سُبحانَهُ مِنْ مُوَازَرَتِكَ، إِذْ حَمَلْتَهُمْ عَلَى الصَّعْبِ، وَعَدَلْتَ بِهِمْ عَنِ الْقَصْدِ.

فَاتَّقِ اللهَ يَا مُعَاوِيَةُ فِي نَفْسِكَ، وَجَاذِبِ الشَّيْطَانَ قيَادَكَ، فَإِنَّ الدُّنْيَا مُنْقَطِعَةٌ عَنْكَ،

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-32-muawiyah

 

Letter 64: To Mu'awiyah

 

Now then, certainly, we and you were on amiable terms as you say but difference arose between us and you the other day, when we accepted belief (iman) and you rejected it. Today the position is that we are steadfast (in the belief) but you are creating mischief. Those of you who accepted Islam did so reluctantly and that too when all the chief men had accepted Islam and joined the Messenger of Allah- (may Allah bless him and his descendants).

أَمَّا بَعْدُ، فَإِنَّا كُنَّا نَحْنُ وَأَنْتُمْ عَلَى مَا ذَكَرْتَ مِنَ الاْلْفَةِ وَالْجَمَاعَةِ، فَفَرَّقَ بيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمْ أَمْسِ أَنَّا آمَنَّا وَكَفَرْتُمْ، وَالْيَوْمَ أَنَّا اسْتَقَمْنَا وَفُتِنْتُمْ، وَمَا أَسْلَمَ مُسْلِمُكُمْ إِلاَّ كَرْهاً، وَبَعْدَ أَنْ كَانَ أَنْفُ الاْسْلاَمِ كُلُّهُ لِرَسُولِ اللهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله) حرباً.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-64-reply-muawiyah

 

_____

 

There are probably more sermons in Nahjul Balagha about Imamat / Ahlulbayt A.S right so if anyone got their references please share them.

 

 

Just wanted to share my thoughts, and if I've said anything wrong please correct me. 

May Allah SWT guide us all to the straight path. 

Wsalam

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9 hours ago, The Straight Path said:

Salam Alykom

Brother, I'm pretty sure you yourself know that what you're saying is not true, specially the part about our scholars "hiding" stuff from us regular people just because everything isn't available in English... The books (wether in Arabic or any other language) are available for the public and have always been since the beginning, so there is nothing to "hide".

O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do. - Quran [4:135]

 

I've noticed that you really like quoting only from Nahjul Balagha and want everything part of our faith to be included there. However I want to remind you that Nahjul Balagha is a source of sermons (hadiths) and a collection just like any other book. So the book may contain both authentic and unauthentic stuff, so you can not really say that Shias are going against Imam Ali A.S, if there are other authentic sources that agrees with the things Shias believe. If something isn't included in Sahih Bukhari but in other authentic Sunni books, would you claim that it isn't true or valid? Same with Nahjul Balagha, just because a topic or something isn't mentioned there doesn't mean that it isn't true or that Imam Ali A.S never said so... It's just a book with sermons and hadiths collected by one of our scholars, and obviously everything can't be included there.

 

Anyhow here are some quotes from Nahjul Balagha since you seem to prefer it and believe it to be Imam Ali's A.S words for sure:

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 97.

 

Look at the people of the Prophet's family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind of them as you would thereby be ruined.

انْظُرُوا أَهْلَ بَيْتِ نَبِيِّكُمْ فَالْزَمُوا سَمْتَهُمْ، وَاتَّبِعُوا أَثَرَهُمْ فَلَنْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِنْ هُدىً، وَلَنْ يُعِيدُوكُمْ فِي رَدىً، فَإِنْ لَبَدُوا فَالْبُدُوا، وَإِنْ نَهَضُوا فَانْهَضُوا، وَلاَ تَسْبِقُوهُمْ فَتَضِلُّوا، وَلاَ تَتَأَخَّرُوا عَنْهُمْ فَتَهْلِكُوا.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-97-although-Allah-gives-time-oppressor#about-household-holy-prophet

 

In the same sermon, Imam Ali A.S even talks about Prophet's S.A.W companions:

 

I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind.

لَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ أَصْحَابَ مُحَمَّد (صلى الله عليه وآله)، فَمَا أَرَى أَحَداً يُشْبِهُهُمْ مِنْكُمْ! لَقَدْ كَانُوا يُصْبِحُونَ شُعْثاً غُبْراً، قَدْ بَاتُوا سُجّداً وَقِيَاماً، يُرَاوِحُونَ بَيْنَ جِبَاهِهِمْ وَخُدُودِهِمْ، وَيَقِفُونَ عَلَى مِثْلِ الْجَمْرِ مِنْ ذِكْرِ مَعَادِهِمْ! كَأَنَّ بَيْنَ أَعْيُنهِمْ رُكَبَ الْمِعْزَى مِنْ طُولِ سُجُودِهِمْ! إِذَا ذُكِرَ اللهُ هَمَلَتْ أَعْيُنُهُمْ حَتَّى تَبُلَّ جُيُوبَهُمْ، وَمَادُوا كَمَا يَمِيدُ

 

Just wanted to share it since it comes from the same sermon, so you don't think that we tried to "hide" it or that it is against our belief. Of course the Prophet S.A.W had many good companions, both those who died during his time or those who even supported Imam Ali A.S during his caliphate. You may think that Shias believes all of Prophet's SAW companions to be kafirs (staghfurallah) but that is obviously wrong. Even if there are Shias or scholars who have said so, we got narrations that talks about there excellence. Also the narrations that speaks about only four companions being on the right after Prophet's SAW demise is only regarding Imam Ali's AS wilayah (according what I've read) and not about them exiting Islam at all. Of course there where companions who "...passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers" etc. as is mentioned in the above narration. 

I've shared a pretty good article regarding this in my last post. 

Again, no doubt that there are probably Shias who go to the extreme or maybe believe that all Sahabas are kafirs or something like that, but that shouldn't be a reason to ignore narrations etc. that talks about Imam Ali's AS right or other good things within the Shi'ites.

 

Please correct me if I've said anything wrong. 

 

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 152.

The riser has risen, the sparkler has sparkled, the appearer has appeared and the curved has been straightened. Allah has replaced one people with another and one day with another. We awaited these changes as the famine-stricken await the rain. Certainly the Imams are the vicegerents of Allah over His creatures and they make the creatures know Allah. No one will enter Paradise except he who knows them and knows Him, and no one will enter Hell except he who denies them and denies Him.

فَقَدْ طَلَعَ طَالِعٌ، وَلَمَعَ لاَ مِعٌ، وَلاَحَ لاَئِحٌ، وَاعْتَدَلَ مَائِلٌ، وَاسْتَبْدَلَ اللهُ بِقَوْم قَوْماً، وَبِيَوم يَوْماً، وَانْتَظَرْنَا الْغِيَرَ انْتِظَارَ الْـمُجْدِبِ الْمَطَرَ. وَإِنَّمَا الاَئِمَّةُ قُوَّامُ اللهِ عَلَى خَلْقِهِ، وَعُرَفَاؤُهُ عَلَى عِبَادِهِ، لاَ يَدْخُلُ الْجَنَّةَ إِلاَّ مَنْ عَرَفَهُمْ وَعَرَفُوهُ، وَلاَ يَدْخُلُ النَّارَ

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-152-praise-be-Allah-who-is#part-same-sermon-about-divine-leaders-imams

 

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 144.

 

Where are those who falsely and unjustly claimed that they are deeply versed in knowledge, as against us, although Allah raised us in position and kept them down, bestowed upon us knowledge but deprived them, and entered us (in the fortress of knowledge) but kept them out. With us guidance is to be sought and blindness (of misguidance) is to be changed into brightness. Surely the Imams (divine leaders) will be from the Quraysh. They have been planted in this line through Hashim. It would not suit others nor would others be suitable as heads of affairs.

أَيْنَ الَّذِينَ زَعَمُوا أَنَّهُمُ الرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ دُونَنَا، كَذِباً وَبَغْياً عَلَيْنَا، أَنْ رَفَعَنَا اللهُ وَوَضَعَهُمْ، وَأَعْطَانَا وَحَرَمَهُمْ، وَأَدْخَلَنَا وَأَخْرَجَهُمْ. بِنَا يُسْتَعْطَى الْهُدَى، وَبِنَا يُسْتَجْلَى الْعَمَى. إِنَّ الاْئِمَّةَ مِنْ قُرَيش غُرِسُوا فِي هذَا الْبَطْنِ مِنْ هَاشِم، لاَ تَصْلُحُ

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-144-Allah-deputed-prophets

 

This confirms with the hadith about 12 Imams / Caliphs being from Quraysh that Prophet S.A.W talked about, so how can Shura (consultation) be a way to choose a caliph. Here Imam Ali A.S even further confirms our view that the Imams A.S will be "in this line through Hashim".

 

Nahjul Balagha Letter 28.

 

Better leave those whose arrows miss the mark. We are the direct recipients of our Lord's favours while others receive favours from us after that. In spite of our old established honour and our well-known superiority over your people, we did not stay away from mixing with you and married and got married (among you) like equals although you were not so. And how could you be so when (the position is that) among us is the Prophet while among you is the opposer, among us is the lion of Allah while among you is the lion of the opposing groups, among us are the two masters of the youth of Paradise while among you are the children of Hell, among us is the choicest of all the women of the worlds while among you is the bearer of firewood, and many more distinctions on our side and shortcomings on your side.

فَدَعْ عَنْكَ مَنْ مَالَتْ بِه الرَّمِيَّةُ، فَإِنَّا صَنَائِعُ رَبِّنَا، وَالنَّاسُ بَعْدُ صَنَائِعُ لَنَا. لَمْ يَمْنَعْنَا قَدِيمُ عِزِّنَا وَلاَ عَادِيُّ طَوْلِنَا عَلَى قَوْمِكَ أَنْ خَلَطْنَاكُمْ بَأَنفُسِنَا، فَنَكَحْنَا وَأَنْكَحْنا، فِعْلَ الاْكْفَاءِ، وَلَسْتُمْ هُنَاكَ! وَأَنَّى يَكُونُ ذلِكَ كَذَلِكَ وَمِنَّا النَّبِيُّ وَمِنْكُمُ الْمُكَذِّبُ، وَمِنَّا أَسَدُ اللهِ وَمِنْكُمْ أَسَدُ الاْحْلاَفِ، وَمِنَّا سَيِّدَا شَبَابِ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ وَمِنْكُمْ صِبْيَةُ النَّارِ، وَمِنَّا خَيْرُ نِسَاءِ الْعَالَمِينِ وَمِنْكُمْ حَمَّالَةُ الْحَطَبِ، فِي كَثِير مِمَّا لَنَا وَعَلَيْكُمْ!

...
 

 

Thus, we are superior firstly because of kinship and secondly because of obedience. When at Saqifah (of Banu Sa'idah) the Muhajirun contended kinship with the Messenger of Allah (S) against the Ansar, they scored over them. If that success was based on kinship then the right would be ours better than yours. Otherwise, the Ansar's contention stands. You think that I have been jealous of every caliph and have revolted against them. Even if this be so, it is not an offence against you and therefore no explanation is due to you.

This is a matter for which no blame comes to you”.

فَنَحْنُ مَرَّةً أوْلَى بِالْقَرَابَةِ، وَتَارَةً أَوْلَى بِالطَّاعَةِ. وَلَمَّا احْتَجَّ الْمُهَاجِرُونَ عَلَى الاْنْصَارِ يَوْمَ السَّقِيفَةِ بِرَسُولِ الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) فَلَجُوا عَلَيْهِمْ، فَإِنْ يَكُنِ الْفَلَجُ بِهِ فَالْحَقُّ لَنَا دُونَكُمْ، وَإِنْ يَكُنْ بِغَيْرِهِ فَالاْنْصَارُ عَلَى دَعْوَاهُمْ.

وَزَعَمْتَ أَنِّي لِكُلِّ الْخُلَفَاءِ حَسَدْتُ، وَعَلَى كُلِّهِمْ بَغَيْتُ، فَإِنْ يَكُنْ ذلِكَ كَذلِكَ فَلَيْسَ الْجِنَايَةُ عَلَيْكَ، فَيَكُونَ الْعُذْرُ إِلَيْكَ.

 
 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-28-reply-muawiyah-and-it-one-ot-his-most-elegant

 

Note that the letter above shows how Imam Ali A.S is talking about Saqifah, and using the kinship thing as an argument against Muawiyah. Same thing could be said with Letter 6 where Imam Ali A.S talked about Shura, as many others likes to quote against Shias, Imam Ali A.S could have just said what he said regarding it as an argument against Muawiya. Allahu Aalam.

 

Another interesting part of the same letter:

 

You have said that I was dragged like a camel with a nose string to swear allegiance (to Abu Bakr at Saqifah). By the Eternal Allah, you had intended to revile me but you have praised me, and to humiliate me but have yourself been humiliated. What humiliation does it mean for a Muslim to be the victim of oppression so long as he does not entertain any doubt in his religion, nor any misgiving in his firm belief! This argument of mine is intended for others, but I have stated it to you only in so far as it was appropriate.

وَقُلْتَ: إِنِّي كُنْتُ أُقَادُ كَمَا يُقَادُ الْجَمَلُ الْـمَخْشُوشُ حَتَّى أُبَايِعَ، وَلَعَمْرُ اللهِ لَقَدْ أَرَدْتَ أَنْ تَذُمَّ فَمَدَحْتَ، وَأَنْ تَفْضَحَ فَافْتَضَحْتَ! وَمَا عَلَى الْمُسْلِمِ مِنْ غَضَاضَة فِي أَنْ يَكُونَ مَظْلُوماً مَا لَمْ يَكُنْ شَاكّاً فِي دِينِهِ، وَلاَ مُرْتَاباً بِيَقِينِهِ!

وَهذِهِ حُجَّتِي إِلَى غَيْرِكَ قَصْدُهَا، وَلكِنِّي أَطْلَقْتُ لَكَ مِنْهَا بِقَدْرِ مَا سَنَحَ مِنْ ذِكْرِهَا.

 

Interestingly, this part kind of confirms a part of the story regarding the burning of Fatimah's SA house (where it was said that Imam Ali A.S was forced to pay allegiance), I think this story was found in The book of Sulaym ibn Qays if I remember right so it's interesting to see another source confirming something from that book (as it is believed that the book isn't fully authentic). But anyway I am not a scholar and can not say if this is authentic or not, at the end Allah SWT is the One who knows what truly happened.

Regarding the book The book of Sulaym ibn Qays, you keep mentioning it like it's the foundation of Shi'ism or something. There are other authentic narrations in other books confirming what Shias believe in, and confirming some things which exists in this book as well. This is a reason why many believe The book of Sulaym ibn Qays contains authentic narrations, since there are other books confirming those that exists in Sulaym's book. However I agree that it is wrong to believe that it is fully authentic, but as previously mentioned Shias got other books and just because those other sources mentions same things as Sulaym's book does, doesn't have to mean that it comes from this book...

 

 

 

Some other letters that is said to show us Imam Ali's A.S real view of Muawiya (you can not take one narration that says that Muawiya is like a brother who "only" rebel against him and believe that this is how Imam Ali A.S really thought of him, you have to look at all the narrations or letters that exists and see what Imam Ali A.S really meant like Shias do). 

 

Letter 32: To Mu'awiyah

 

You have ruined a large group of people whom you have deceived by your misguidance, and have flung them into the currents of your sea where darkness has covered them and misgivings toss them about. As a result they have strayed from the right path and turned on their backs. They turned their backs and pushed forward except those wise ones who came back because they left you after understanding you and ran towards Allah away from your assistance when you put them to troubles and deviated them from the middle path. Therefore, O Mu'awiyah, fear Allah about yourself and take away your rein from Satan, since this world is shortly to be cut off from you and the next world is near you; and that is an end to the matter.

وَأَرْدَيْتَ جِيلاً مِنَ النَّاسِ كَثِيراً، خَدَعْتَهُمْ بِغَيِّكَ، وَأَلْقَيْتَهُمْ فِي مَوْجِ بَحْرِكَ، تَغْشَاهُمُ الظُّلُمَاتُ،تَتَلاَطَمُ بِهِمُ الشُّبُهَاتُ، فَجاروا عَنْ وِجْهَتِهِمْ، وَنَكَصُوا عَلَى أَعْقَابِهِمْ، وَتَوَلَّوْا عَلَى أَدْبَارِهِمْ، وَعَوَّلُوا عَلَى أحْسَابِهِمْ، إِلاَّ مَنْ فَاءَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْبَصَائِرِ، فَإِنَّهُمْ فَارَقُوكَ بَعْدَ مَعْرِفَتِكَ، وَهَرَبُوا إِلَى اللهِ سُبحانَهُ مِنْ مُوَازَرَتِكَ، إِذْ حَمَلْتَهُمْ عَلَى الصَّعْبِ، وَعَدَلْتَ بِهِمْ عَنِ الْقَصْدِ.

فَاتَّقِ اللهَ يَا مُعَاوِيَةُ فِي نَفْسِكَ، وَجَاذِبِ الشَّيْطَانَ قيَادَكَ، فَإِنَّ الدُّنْيَا مُنْقَطِعَةٌ عَنْكَ،

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-32-muawiyah

 

Letter 64: To Mu'awiyah

 

Now then, certainly, we and you were on amiable terms as you say but difference arose between us and you the other day, when we accepted belief (iman) and you rejected it. Today the position is that we are steadfast (in the belief) but you are creating mischief. Those of you who accepted Islam did so reluctantly and that too when all the chief men had accepted Islam and joined the Messenger of Allah- (may Allah bless him and his descendants).

أَمَّا بَعْدُ، فَإِنَّا كُنَّا نَحْنُ وَأَنْتُمْ عَلَى مَا ذَكَرْتَ مِنَ الاْلْفَةِ وَالْجَمَاعَةِ، فَفَرَّقَ بيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمْ أَمْسِ أَنَّا آمَنَّا وَكَفَرْتُمْ، وَالْيَوْمَ أَنَّا اسْتَقَمْنَا وَفُتِنْتُمْ، وَمَا أَسْلَمَ مُسْلِمُكُمْ إِلاَّ كَرْهاً، وَبَعْدَ أَنْ كَانَ أَنْفُ الاْسْلاَمِ كُلُّهُ لِرَسُولِ اللهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله) حرباً.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-64-reply-muawiyah

 

_____

 

There are probably more sermons in Nahjul Balagha about Imamat / Ahlulbayt A.S right so if anyone got their references please share them.

 

 

Just wanted to share my thoughts, and if I've said anything wrong please correct me. 

May Allah SWT guide us all to the straight path. 

Wsalam

Brother, nice post, Masha-Allah

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Haters make us greater. 

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