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1 minute ago, Enlightened Follower said:

None of the verses you cited excludes non believers from heaven

Do you have special definition for "non-believer"?

Surah Al-Lail, Verse 4-10:

إِنَّ سَعْيَكُمْ لَشَتَّىٰ

فَأَمَّا مَنْ أَعْطَىٰ وَاتَّقَىٰ

وَصَدَّقَ بِالْحُسْنَىٰ

فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُ لِلْيُسْرَىٰ

وَأَمَّا مَن بَخِلَ وَاسْتَغْنَىٰ

وَكَذَّبَ بِالْحُسْنَىٰ

فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُ لِلْعُسْرَىٰ

 

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Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

Idk why ya believe different that E.L King, I mean it specifically says in Islam ONLY MUSLIMS will enter heaven. So why would any other religion be able to save the kafir? Bc a person does a good deed they are saved? So a person who is a athiest can enter heaven bc he sssupposedly  good? How does anyone know who is good in the eyes of Allah?

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2 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

Idk why ya believe different that E.L King, I mean it specifically says in Islam ONLY MUSLIMS will enter heaven. So why would any other religion be able to save the kafir? Bc a person does a good deed they are saved? So a person who is a athiest can enter heaven bc he sssupposedly  good? How does anyone know who is good in the eyes of Allah?

Abu Talib was a non believer and according to Shia belief he entered heaven

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Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.         

Idk why ya disagree with E.L. King when the Quran teaches that ONLY muslims enter paradise. Why would being "good" save anyone if they supposedly denied the messengers of a God? How does anyone know what is good to Allah? Those who disagree are denying their own book.

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3 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

. Why would being "good" save anyone if they supposedly denied the messengers of a God? How does anyone know what is good to Allah? Those who disagree are denying their own book.

It depends on how someone comes to a state of disbelief. People do not inherit the sins of others so if a society forces a belief on them they will not be judged for it.

To "deny" has a specific meaning it means to be presented with something most people these days are not even given the chance to even interact with a Muslim let alone be offered Islam.

Edited by Enlightened Follower

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7 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

It depends on how someone comes to a state of disbelief. People do not inherit the sins of others so if a society forces a belief on them they will not be judged for it.

Does that not include the religion of Islam then? That's how it was started and how would that affect the Christians like me?

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10 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

@The_Bible

If you believe in the Last Day, don't have ill will towards Muslims and don't go against any deals or agreements you have made with other people. You will be guaranteed heaven.

So what is the problem with Christians following their bible when muslims criticize them for believing different. And what you replied still doesn't go according to what the Quran teaches. Maybe you are trying to be modest and have peace with other beliefs but it is not what is said in your book.

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13 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

Idk why ya believe different that E.L King, I mean it specifically says in Islam ONLY MUSLIMS will enter heaven. So why would any other religion be able to save the kafir? Bc a person does a good deed they are saved? So a person who is a athiest can enter heaven bc he sssupposedly  good? How does anyone know who is good in the eyes of Allah?

Really, as always, and its the same shpeal in Christianity, it is turning back to interpretation.

Ive gone on plenty of rants about this before, but religion, and scripture in particular, never has been and never will be black and white.

I can look at my laptop, it is black, plastic, somewhat tough yet smooth. I can smell the plastic, taste the aluminum keys, I can hear it running.

The laptop and truth of what it is, is clear.  No human being can doubt its density and hardness. No regular human can deny its blue color.  Because it exists clearly, beyond our imaginations, and beyond our mind.

Scripture on the otherhand and understanding it, is a different ball game.  Because when you read a verse,

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers"

Every single word in the sentence above, can be, and will be, thought of differently by each and every one of us.  Why? Because "the Hereafter" is a place none of us have touched, tasted, smelled, heard or seen.  The nature of language is too subjective.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

In summary, this is why E.L. King is incorrect in his bold hell based assertions.  He is ignorant of his own claims.  This is also why people rightfully disagree with him.

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7 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Muslims have theological disagreements but that does not dictate a person's salvation.

Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

Again, I do not think that even is a option when your Quran contradicts you. What about when Islam was first beginning? Why did Allah urge Muhammad to change our beliefs making it seem like if WE were wrong in any way? You cannot go against the Ayats of your religion bc if someone were to ask me about Christianity i would bring up bible verses AND THEN give my explanation.

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8 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

Really, as always, and its the same shpeal in Christianity, it is turning back to interpretation.

Ive gone on plenty of rants about this before, but religion, and scripture in particular, never has been and never will be black and white.

I can look at my laptop, it is black, plastic, somewhat tough yet smooth. I can smell the plastic, taste the aluminum keys, I can hear it running.

The laptop and truth of what it is, is clear.  No human being can doubt its density and hardness. No regular human can deny its blue color.  Because it exists clearly, beyond our imaginations, and beyond our mind.

Scripture on the otherhand and understanding it, is a different ball game.  Because when you read a verse,

"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers"

Every single word in the sentence above, can be, and will be, thought of differently by each and every one of us.  Why? Because "the Hereafter" is a place none of us have touched, tasted, smelled, heard or seen.  The nature of language is too subjective.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

In summary, this is why E.L. King is incorrect in his bold hell based assertions.  He is ignorant of his own claims.  This is also why people rightfully disagree with him.

Ayo friend either your Christian, or your not, you cannot pick both especially if you support the theory of evolution. A God that needs repetitve death in order for something to evolve is not a God worth worshipping.

People haven't disproven E.L claims and what kind of God cannot make clear on whether or not one is qualified for salvation or not? This isn't a lottery game one plays and tries to keep interpretating just to have people go to hell over the meantime.

There are too many religions, opinions, beliefs for all of us to be correct. Especially, when we all say contradicting statements about GOD. 

That is why there HAS to be ONE right answer bc such thing as absolute truth exists, and if it doesn't, how can you be absolutely sure about anything?

The fact is that truth exists, nobody can escape that. Now you can either seek for the truth, or just not care about it, but that does not make it go away. 

There about 3000 varying religions, most of which are just branching off of main religions. And with that in mind, just because there are millions of different stories circulating about an event, does not mean that the true and factual story is not out there. 

How do I know mine is right? Well thats easy, you can trim it down easily by studying the facts, studying the history, studying the philosophy. For instance, a religion that views the sun as god is swept aside easily, or religions that worship a goat or a bird or whatever, thats nothing like Christian beliefs.

 

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Just understand that not all Christians hold stringent or hardlined views, and understand that though muslims are generally more conservative, they too have varying interpretations.

And there is nothing any of us can do about it, because none of us have experienced "the hereafter".

You can feel 150% confident in your interpretation of scripture, but at the end of the day, the reality is, that your views are in your mind.  That is where they reside. The same goes for interpretations of Islamic scripture. 

Edited by iCambrian

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5 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

Quran 3:85 - And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers

Quran 3:19 - Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.

Again, I do not think that even is a option when your Quran contradicts you. What about when Islam was first beginning? Why did Allah urge Muhammad to change our beliefs making it seem like if WE were wrong in any way? You cannot go against the Ayats of your religion bc if someone were to ask me about Christianity i would bring up bible verses AND THEN give my explanation.

"Unfortunately, the way Muslims have come to use the term ‘kafir’ is very different from the way the Quran uses it. Muslims, originally for legal purposes, and now out of habit and social conditioning, have come to use the word ‘kafir’ to refer to anyone who is not Muslim. This is the beginning of a multitude of social problems Muslims face in the West..........

If all non-Muslims were ‘kafirs’, then upon reading the Quran we would have to conclude that they are ignorant, arrogant, evil people who seek the destruction of Earth for no reason other than selfish greed. This is an equally inaccurate view of reality, if we take a look at the ‘non-Muslims’ all around us.

Many Muslims would agree that it’s true that not all Muslims are ‘believers’ as many Muslims profess faith, but their faith is weak or they don’t believe at all, which places them under the 3rd category that the Quran is explicit about: hypocrites.

However, there is a 4th category that we’re missing out on here. It’s a category that the Quran alludes to but remains silent about. It’s a category that the majority of people on the planet fall under. Think about this for a minute:

  • Believers are those that are Muslims and embody the noble qualities the Quran encourages
  • Kafirs are those that are not Muslims and embody the harmful vices the Quran discourages
  • Hypocrites are those that claim to be Muslim and embody the harmful vices the Quran discourages
  • What’s missing?

Obviously, those that are not Muslim, but embody the noble qualities the Quran commends. What does the Quran say about these people (that might make up a few billion of our sisters and brothers in humanity today)? Nothing. At the most the Quran alludes to their existence, but doesn’t actually say anything about them – there’s especially no mention of whether or not they go to Heaven or Hell."

 

Source: http://www.quranforbusypeople.com/do-all-non-muslims-go-to-hell/

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15 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

 

Imagine if i told you that I was baking a cake.

 

What do you think of? Vanilla cake? Chocolate? Strawberry?  Are there chocolate chips in it? Fudge? What does it smell like? How big is it? How does it taste? Can you hear me pulling it from the oven?

In your mind you have a picture of what is going on. All I said that I was baking a cake.  But as simple and as straight forward as the statement may seem, there are a million and one ways to think about this, and I bet that of anyone who reads this statement, no matter how simple it is, everyone will have a different interpretation.

It isnt until we actually have the cake in front of us, and have tasted and smelled and touched it, that we can truly say what kind of cake it is.  And this is the delimma with religion around the world. We just dont have the cake in front of us, we simply have words that state "I was baking a cake".

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10 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

Just understand that not all Christians hold stringent or hardlined views, and understand that though muslims are generally more conservative, they too have varying interpretations.

And there is nothing any of us can do about it, because none of us have experienced "the hereafter".

You can feel 150% confident in your interpretation of scripture, but at the end of the day, the reality is, that your views are in your mind.  That is where they reside. The same goes for interpretations of Islamic scripture. 

I do not mind ANY views UNLESS it contradicts what the BIBLE SAYS.  Then that is obviously a problem, and we do not need to experience the "hereafter" to know Allah exist right? Wouldn't that be more of an excuse to a atheist that waits for the last moment to believe? By that logic then our beliefs hold NO value at all until we actually get judged by God to see who shall enter heaven or not.

I think people are more uncomortable with the nature of God as given in the scriptures, than they are with the idea of God existing. Easily put, its like dudes talking bout they are not religious but they do believe there is a God, at the end of the day they just creating a god in their own minds, a god that jives to their tunes. And thats not what Christianity is. You can't read the Bible and expect it to not step on your toes.

But i do follow this God, there is nothing more humbling than the sovereignty of God Almighty.

Nehemiah 8:8 - So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

1 Corinthians 2:15-16) - But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

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8 minutes ago, The_Bible said:

I do not mind ANY views UNLESS it contradicts what the BIBLE SAYS.  Then that is obviously a problem, and we do not need to experience the "hereafter" to know Allah exist right?

Im not sure you understand what I am saying.  You arent even acknowledging my posts.

How would you know, or truly know, anything about the cake, if you never tasted it? never smelled or saw it?

You have to understand that what you think you know, is purely in your mind. It is an interpretation.  And this interpretation is not knowledge of something that is, rather it is a thought of something that may be.

Edited by iCambrian

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57 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Abu Talib was a non believer and according to Shia belief he entered heaven

No he wasn't. You seem to be influenced a lot by Sunnis and liberal/unorthodox Muslims:

These are two hadiths proving the Islam of Abu Talib:

Quote

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن ابي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: إن مثل أبي طالب مثل أصحاب الكهف أسروا الايمان وأظهروا الشرك فآتاهم الله أجرهم مرتين.


`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from ibn Abi `Umayr from Hisham b. Salim from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: The example of Abu Talib is like that of the Sleepers of the Cave – they hid their faith and expressed polytheism, so Allah gave them their reward twice. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 1209)

(hasan) (حسن)


الحسين بن محمد ومحمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن إسحاق، عن بكر بن محمد الازدي، عن إسحاق بن جعفر، عن ابيه عليه السلام قال: قيل له: إنهم يزعمون أن أبا طالب كان كافرا؟ فقال: كذبوا كيف يكون كافرا وهو يقول:
ألم تعلموا أنا وجدنا محمدا * نبيا كموسى خط في أول الكتب وفي حديث آخر كيف يكون أبو طالب كافرا وهو يقول: لقد علموا أن ابننا لا مكذب * لدينا ولا يعبأ بقيل الا باطل وأبيض يستسقى الغمام بوجهه * ثمال اليتامى عصمة للارامل


al-Husayn b. Muhammad and Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Is`haq from Bakr b. Muhammad al-Azdi from Is`haq b. Ja`far from his father عليه السلام. He said: It was said to him: They allege that Abu Talib was a disbeliever! So he said: They have lied. How could he be a disbeliever when he said, “Do they not know that we found Muhammad as a prophet like Musa, mentioned in the first Books?”


And in another hadith: How could Abu Talib be a disbeliever when he said, “They know that our son is not a liar, the false sayings do not receive our attention. The white face that prays, thus the clouds send rain, is the helper of the orphans and the protector of the widows”. (al-Kafi, Volume 1,hadith 1210)


(sahih or mursal) (صحيح أو مرسل)

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/usul-kafi/book-4/chapter-111

Edited by E.L King

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32 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

Im not sure you understand what I am saying.  You arent even acknowledging my posts.

How would you know, or truly know, anything about the cake, if you never tasted it? never smelled or saw it?

You have to understand that what you think you know, is purely in your mind. It is an interpretation.  And this interpretation is not knowledge of something that is, rather it is a thought of something that may be.

I did not get to acknowledge your post bc i had just finished replying to the other one. And I understand you're trying to give me philosophical talks, but to simplify it you're stating that we cannot be sure of ANYTHING related to religion bc it will all be, at the end of the day, open for interpretation. Then you do not realize that you are making ABSOLUTE truth a illusion bc we are limited to not knowing anything related to God or the here-after?

Now shall your philosophy exceed your religious beliefs? You are basically saying that God was not able to give us a simple understanding on how & who goes to heaven or not. Then how does that apply to your bible when it says that God will give you UNDERSTANDING, and not frosake you in gudaince?

2 Timothy 3:15 - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

James 1:5 - If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Edited by The_Bible

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1 hour ago, Enlightened Follower said:

Those verses apply to people who reject faith(i.e. have had a chance to be presented Islam and it's proofs and then rejected them) not to those exposed to negative news media against Islam or those who have not yet heard the message.

And what did I say? I said they rejected Islam, I never said anything about those who didn't hear about Islam. As for those who hear "negative news" and believe it like sheep, that is their problem. They are lazy and did not search for the truth, Allah says about people:

Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?" They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination. (Al-Nisa)

So you can see this excuse is not the best of excuses. 

The Qur'an and Hadiths have outlined a certain peoples that can or will be excused from punishment, and these are the mustad'afeen (oppressed ones). The hadiths tell us how someone is a mustad'af.

“Whoever knows the differences among people is not a powerless person.” (al-Kafi) Hadith is Sahih, by Imam Al-Sadiq. Another hadith says children, and men and women whose minds are like children, the Pen has been lifted from them.

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They asked me about the Hadith of 73 sects, and only one in Heaven. Here it is:

And this Ummah after the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) separated into 73 sects and 72 sects are in the fire and one sect is in Jannah and from the 73 sects, 13 of the sects plagiarize/impersonate friendship and wilayah of us (the Imaams), and 12 sects from it are in the fire, and one sect is in Jannah, and the (remaining) 60 sects from the rest of the people are in the fire”

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/12/73-sects-of-islam.html

They asked me about the Hadith regarding one with no Imam, here it is:

Ahmad b. Idris from Muhammad b. `Abd al-Jabbar from Safwan from al-Fudayl from al-Harith b. al-Mughira.

He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله said: Whoever dies without recognizing his Imam dies the death of jahiliyya. He said: Yes [this is correct]. I said: Is it a jahiliyya of the ignorant, or a jahiliyyaof one who does not recognize his Imam? He said: A jahiliyya of disbelief, hypocrisy, and error. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 970)

(sahih) (صحيح)

And they asked me about the Hadith about the deeds of someone without Wilaya, here it is:

From Abu Hamza, he said Imam Ali ibn Al-Husayn (AS) said: what is the best of places? We said "Allah, His Messenger, and the son of his Messenger are more knowledgable" he said in between Rukn and Maqam, and if there was ever a man who aged just as much as Nuh (AS) aged with his people, 950 years, and fasted the days and prayed the nights therein, then met Allah without our Wilaya, all of that was of no use to him (Al-Kafi)

and there are more proofs. I can go on and on. 

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58 minutes ago, Enlightened Follower said:

"Unfortunately, the way Muslims have come to use the term ‘kafir’ is very different from the way the Quran uses it. Muslims, originally for legal purposes, and now out of habit and social conditioning, have come to use the word ‘kafir’ to refer to anyone who is not Muslim. This is the beginning of a multitude of social problems Muslims face in the West..........

If all non-Muslims were ‘kafirs’, then upon reading the Quran we would have to conclude that they are ignorant, arrogant, evil people who seek the destruction of Earth for no reason other than selfish greed. This is an equally inaccurate view of reality, if we take a look at the ‘non-Muslims’ all around us.

Many Muslims would agree that it’s true that not all Muslims are ‘believers’ as many Muslims profess faith, but their faith is weak or they don’t believe at all, which places them under the 3rd category that the Quran is explicit about: hypocrites.

However, there is a 4th category that we’re missing out on here. It’s a category that the Quran alludes to but remains silent about. It’s a category that the majority of people on the planet fall under. Think about this for a minute:

  • Believers are those that are Muslims and embody the noble qualities the Quran encourages
  • Kafirs are those that are not Muslims and embody the harmful vices the Quran discourages
  • Hypocrites are those that claim to be Muslim and embody the harmful vices the Quran discourages
  • What’s missing?

Obviously, those that are not Muslim, but embody the noble qualities the Quran commends. What does the Quran say about these people (that might make up a few billion of our sisters and brothers in humanity today)? Nothing. At the most the Quran alludes to their existence, but doesn’t actually say anything about them – there’s especially no mention of whether or not they go to Heaven or Hell."

 

Source: http://www.quranforbusypeople.com/do-all-non-muslims-go-to-hell/

So this is where you get your ideas, not from our Ulama but from random websites.

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6 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

the best morals we can find, are examples of the teachings of the Ahlulbayt (as). these are the morals we try and copy. 

if there is a god, and he is just (aadil), we will be rewarded

if there is a god, and he is not just (aadil), we will be punished regardless of what we do

if there is no god, at least we have lived a moral life. 

That literally sounds like straight from Marcus Aurelius's The Meditations 2.11(although more like the popular misquote of it "Live a good life"), is that really in reference to a quote from Ahlulbayt(as) too? That's actually really cool if so.

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9 hours ago, Hayhat MinnaZilla said:

Salam everyone,

So a (shia) friend of mine has been recently watching videos about atheism and is now asking me question like why is shia islam right.. stuff like that.

He is now asking me why Shia islam is right out of the thousand religions in the world and what about everyone else who was born as Christian, Hindu etc.

I do not have enough knowledge, and I hope you guys can help this person.

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Brother,

Insh'Allah you are well and in good health.  Brother Hassanain Rajabali is always on the forefront discussing these type of issues.  This is a recent video he gave during Arba'een.  This brother also debates atheists.  Once he watches this video, I can provide him the debate videos.

Start from 17:00

Primary reason: From His mercy

Secondary reason:  To be tested, every single human being is being tried.

@E.L King If you have time dear brother, please watch.  Insh'Allah it will be of benefit to you.  Brother Hassanain touches upon how it is easy to dame everyone to hell.  He doesn't endorse at all religious pluralism, he believes Islam is deen al haq.  But he says Islam endorses social pluralism.  God bless you brother. 

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Edited by Laayla

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If non-muslims could go to heaven providing they were just, it just goes to show that its OK not to believe in Allah and his Messangers.

And if people of the book like christians and jews who dont believe in the holy prophet, can go to heaven providing they're good people, it tells us that its OK not to believe in Allah's final messanger.  

Finally, if non-shias can go to heaven, providing they are good people, suggests that its OK not to believe in the ahlulbayt as the successors of the holy prophet. 

Surely this wouldn't be right.

Edited by armeen

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    • Verdicts & final judgement of whom? Is there a possibility that those verdicts & judgements be wrong? Or you're specifically talking about the verdicts & judgements of "Rasikhoona fil ilm"?
    • if four witnesses accused of stealing, you declared innocence, were innocent, but the witnesses were your enemies, is that a fair judgement?. The judge would not know, as the witnesses looked just like you. This happens around the world daily. Your statement is incorrect, it would not be a fair judgement, it would appear to be one, similar to how western politicians use this same concept to invade nations. It is a fair judgement according to their criteria. But those on the receiving end find it abysmal. The reason why you prefer B&W situations, because your mind prefers order and thus it is too simplistic in nature to consider options as it requires critical thinking. This is general for a majority of human beings, as there are too many variables in all cases including the B&W ones. Hence, if one were to analyse religion, its majority is based around this B&W concept, as order is preferred over disordered, especially in regards to the whole, even if we have collateral damage.
    • W Salam لا یستوی اصحاب النار و اصحاب الجنة، اصحاب الجنة هم الفائزون فما ذا بعد الحق الا الضلال قد تبین الرشد من الغی For God, everything is black and white It is for us, ignorant human beings, that gray areas exist, temporarily of course. ان تتقوا الله یجعل لکم فرقانا If you maintain Taqwa, you have black and white distinction in this life; and if not, it will be on the day of judgment, the day of distinction. هذا یوم الفصل جمعناکم و الاولین  
    • Either place right over left or left over right both mean cross legged. However, in Pakistan and India while people sit on the ground, they fold their legs like in yoga people do, but this is not exactly like Yoga but more relaxed, I think, I have to ask this question from my Maraja as well. 
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