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The crawling on torso to the shrines

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4 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

Could you elaborate as to who these 'zakireen' are in Pakistan? Any video's on them? And what sorts of things do they say?

You can find his videos on youtube, his name is Zameer Akhter Naqvi. He incite people to recite shahadat e salasa in tashahud etc. 

Allama Aqeel Gharavi used to respond to this man, unfortunately, he did not arrived in Pakistan this Muharram, because of India Pakistan tension.

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7 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I crawl from the Zarih of Abul Fadhl Abbas (as) to Imam Hussain (as) each time I go.

I do it because I want as much of my body to touch baynul haramein as possible, where the footsteps of the zuwaar for the last thousand years have all touched. I want to do mass of where their feet have fallen. I want to touch as much of - literal - jannah as I can. 

I crawl because crawling removes the arrogance and pride from myself before I present myself before my master. 

if you have a problem with that, or find it worth mocking, or start bringing mullahs fatwas against me, then maybe the problem is with you, not me.  

Best response so far :clap:

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7 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I crawl from the Zarih of Abul Fadhl Abbas (as) to Imam Hussain (as) each time I go.

I do it because I want as much of my body to touch baynul haramein as possible, where the footsteps of the zuwaar for the last thousand years have all touched. I want to do mass of where their feet have fallen. I want to touch as much of - literal - jannah as I can. 

I crawl because crawling removes the arrogance and pride from myself before I present myself before my master. 

if you have a problem with that, or find it worth mocking, or start bringing mullahs fatwas against me, then maybe the problem is with you, not me.  

Ali ibn Hussain a.s saw the killing of his father and close family, and lived it. Do you think anyone knew how best to express the love and sorrow than he? Yet, he ensured the manner and way he performed acts were in line with islam, in-line with moderation, with rationality, and with wisdom.

I do not doubt your deep and immense love - rather i encourage it. But i would advise you to reconsider how you show it.

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On 12/3/2016 at 7:55 AM, uponthesunnah said:

 

This video is so fake, that licking scene in particular, because in that scene people are licking the dusty stairs but there are no stairs in the shrines of Ahl al Bayt (a.s) and doorsteps are not dusty like they are in this video.

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On 12/3/2016 at 2:30 PM, zeesh_ali110 said:

This video is so fake, that licking scene in particular, because in that scene people are licking the dusty stairs but there are no stairs in the shrines of Ahl al Bayt (a.s) and doorsteps are not dusty like they are in this video.

Correct, it looks fake.

Burden of this foul will be on brother@uponthesunnah

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On 12/3/2016 at 2:22 PM, uponthesunnah said:

Ali ibn Hussain a.s saw the killing of his father and close family, and lived it. Do you think anyone knew how best to express the love and sorrow than he? Yet, he ensured the manner and way he performed acts were in line with islam, in-line with moderation, with rationality, and with wisdom.

I do not doubt your deep and immense love - rather i encourage it. But i would advise you to reconsider how you show it.

 

nice response bro! 

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On 12/3/2016 at 5:33 PM, Engineer73 said:

You can find his videos on youtube, his name is Zameer Akhter Naqvi. He incite people to recite shahadat e salasa in tashahud etc. 

Allama Aqeel Gharavi used to respond to this man, unfortunately, he did not arrived in Pakistan this Muharram, because of India Pakistan tension.

SubhanAllah, it's about time our brothers in pakistan started draining the swamp of fake-scholars and speaking out against the likes of Zameer Akhter Naqvi.

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2 hours ago, uponthesunnah said:

SubhanAllah, it's about time our brothers in pakistan started draining the swamp of fake-scholars and speaking out against the likes of Zameer Akhter Naqvi.

A Naqvi Syed followed by our other Zaidi Syed, Baqir Nisar....both of them are close as they operate from the same area.....

May Allah SWT spare us from this jahalat and fake (malang) fitnah. 

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4 hours ago, haideriam said:

Naqvi Syed followed by our other Zaidi Syed, Baqir Nisar....both of them are close as they operate from the same area.....

Please share his video so that i may know who is that guy.

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On 12/3/2016 at 1:00 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

^^ apart from doing the work of the nasibi for them, what are you gaining by spreading this fitna amongst shia and increasing its awareness in the world?

abu musa al ashari.  

What fitnah? the fitnah of them doing those crazy things or the fitnah of others seeing it?

 

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All these rituals that the mullah types criticize, obviously they do not understand them. These are performed out of great love and respect. The crime of people like the OP is that they claim to know the intentions which only God knows and therefore try to project falsehood about us Shia. It obviously also gives his kind a swell of pride, that precious holier-than-thou feeling. Just remember that path won't end well at all.

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These people who carry out these acts, are they trying to imitate the event of Hzarat Abbas (as) when he had his arms chopped off, and he continued to crawl towards the tents by dragging water pouches for the thirsty women and children. 

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14 minutes ago, power said:

These people who carry out these acts, are they trying to imitate the event of Hzarat Abbas (as) when he had his arms chopped off, and he continued to crawl towards the tents by dragging water pouches for the thirsty women and children. 

...but... but brother isn't that biddah? It did not happan in the original true islam??????? Why I never seen a sunni doing it???

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2 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

All these rituals that the mullah types criticize, obviously they do not understand them. These are performed out of great love and respect. The crime of people like the OP is that they claim to know the intentions which only God knows and therefore try to project falsehood about us Shia. It obviously also gives his kind a swell of pride, that precious holier-than-thou feeling. Just remember that path won't end well at all.

Bro but don't you agree certain extremes should be avoided?

I don't believe the OP concerned the matter with general practices which we see regularly, for instance, crawling. He explicitly cited 2-3 acts which are extremely rare and excessive in nature.

Assuming a brother, a close relative or a friend one day decides to adopt a new extreme. Let's say burning of hands, in his taking, reminiscent of the camps set ablaze. Can we attribute this practise as 'Intoxicated love' one that is free of reproach? Should the brother, relative or friend be exempt since the measure of love and respect is one that is best left to God or would you offer counsel? 

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People are leaving Usooli Aqaid and joining Akhbari Aqaid bcoz promotion for Akhbari Aqaid / Malangiat are easier in India and Pakistan rather then Iran due to system over there, and after Iran the major population of Shias are living in Pakistan and India. So it is obvious money is diverted towards Pakistan and India to invest on zakireens to spread there agenda. Same people who got fascinated by Malangiat are now raising slogan of " division " when Usooli Ulema gave fatwas against these actions.

Division is a universal concept , Whenever you want to purify something from raw .. Pure need to get divided from impure. Same like when Prophets came and started there Tableegh division in Ummah started, Some goes with prophet and rest against Prophet. And those who are against Prophet are shouting " you are dividing us ".  This we can easily get from Islamic history and life of Prophets.

Same thing happen in Rasool Allah (saw) life , where Momin Brother was fighting against Kafir Brother, Momin Son was fighting against Kafir Father. And they said even we were fighting against our own brother , father , uncle but our Imaan was increasing. Is that not division between Haq and Baatil even from same family ?

Some times due to Prophet's Tableegh, Mass get divided and sometimes due to Saamri, followers get divided. We ( mass ) if not aware of who belongs to prophet and who belongs to Saamri will get confused and more chance is that we will favor in Saamri's agenda.

Azadari which have no set rules and more sentiments is easiest way to divide Shias. Bcoz majority will keep silent due to " UNKNOWN INTENTION " , they don't want blame on there head by stopping wrong acts which is hidden behind the layer of .. " Do you know my intention ? " .. Are you god ? Are you more then Ahlulbait (as) ? Are you against azadari ? 

So majority remain silent and due to that too many wrong acts are getting introduced in our azadari specially. They ( Anti-Shias)  tried in Salaat too , but bcoz Salaat have rules so they are not able to make division due to Salaat , but still they are trying to make people convince for Shahadat-e-Salisa.

Definitely Allah will test every human. May be this is test for all azadar to check if you really use " Aql " in your acts,  which was the gift from Allah and Allah gave name " Ashraf-ul-Makhlook " due to this Aql.

( bcoz i am more aware with india and pakistan situations , this is my view. People can agree disagree )

Edited by alirex

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9 hours ago, saas said:

Assuming a brother, a close relative or a friend one day decides to adopt a new extreme. Let's say burning of hands, in his taking, reminiscent of the camps set ablaze. Can we attribute this practise as 'Intoxicated love' one that is free of reproach? Should the brother, relative or friend be exempt since the measure of love and respect is one that is best left to God or would you offer counsel? 

in situations like this. we refer to maraji fatwas which say something that causes permanent damage/loss of limb/ loss of usage are not permissible. 

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9 hours ago, saas said:

Bro but don't you agree certain extremes should be avoided?

I don't believe the OP concerned the matter with general practices which we see regularly, for instance, crawling. He explicitly cited 2-3 acts which are extremely rare and excessive in nature.

Assuming a brother, a close relative or a friend one day decides to adopt a new extreme. Let's say burning of hands, in his taking, reminiscent of the camps set ablaze. Can we attribute this practise as 'Intoxicated love' one that is free of reproach? Should the brother, relative or friend be exempt since the measure of love and respect is one that is best left to God or would you offer counsel? 

Cutting your own limbs off, or removing a power/sense (hearing) is haram according to all scholars, as far as I have seen.

Also, there are special rulings for families mourning their dead, see here:

Quote

Issue 641: * As a matter of precaution, one should refrain from scratching one's face or body, or uprooting one's hair to display the grief. However, slapping one's head or face is permitted.

Issue 642: * It is not permissible to tear one's clothes on the death of anyone except on the death of one's father and brother, though the recommended precaution is that one should not tear one's clothes on their death also.

Issue 643: If a wife mourning the death of a husband scratches her face causing blood to come out, or pulls her hair, she should, on the basis of recommended precaution, set a slave free, or feed ten poor, or provide them dress. And the same applies when a man tears his clothes on the death of his wife or son.

Issue 644: * The recommended precaution is that while weeping over the death of any person one's voice should not be very loud.

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-ali-al-husayni-al-sistani/taharat#rules-about-burial-dead-body

*NOTE* These rulings have nothing to do with matam over Imam Al-Husayn (AS).

Edited by E.L King

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9 hours ago, alirex said:

People are leaving Usooli Aqaid and joining Akhbari Aqaid

Love and humanity are not bound by doctrines. You want to think that everyone else are all weed smoking mallangs thats your choice, your strawman argument.

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41 minutes ago, Darth Vader said:

Love and humanity are not bound by doctrines. You want to think that everyone else are all weed smoking mallangs thats your choice, your strawman argument.

its not his fault, he is just believing what his mullahs have taught him, the miskeen

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1 hour ago, Darth Vader said:

Love and humanity are not bound by doctrines. You want to think that everyone else are all weed smoking mallangs thats your choice, your strawman argument.

I love you bro, but everything is bound by doctrine. Suicide, for love and emotional reasons, can never be halal for example.

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3 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

Love and humanity are not bound by doctrines. You want to think that everyone else are all weed smoking mallangs thats your choice, your strawman argument.

I think my paragraph was of 28 lines. If you missed the rest part or may be page not open properly then read that again. Things are in Context not just first line. Whenever human left " Aql " they are really only WeedSmokers. ( Bcoz every cigrette pack having warning .. Smoking is injurious for health )

My comment was having no Quote of any bodies comment , so its not  under " Argument " . But you can say my own view. And people have rights to agree or disagree.

Edited by alirex

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