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12 Mahdis after 12 Imams

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There are many ahadith about verse 4:59 and the surrounding verses in Shiite sources.

وفي الإِكمال عن جابر بن عبد الله الأنصاري (رض) قال لما نزلت هذه الاية قلت يا رسول الله عرفنا الله ورسوله فمن أولي الأمر الذين قرنهم الله طاعتهم بطاعتك فقال هم حلفائي يا جابر وأئمة المسلمين من بعدي أولهم علي بن ابي طالب ثم الحسن ثم الحسين ثم علي بن الحسين ثم محمد بن علي صلوات الله عليهم المعروف في التوراة بالباقر وستدركه يا جابر فإذا لقيته فاقرئه مني السلام ثم الصادق جعفر بن محمد ثم موسى بن جعفر ثم علي بن موسى ثم محمد بن علي ثم علي بن محمد ثم الحسن بن علي ثم سميي محمد وكنيي حجة الله في أرضه وبقيته في عباده ابن الحسن بن علي صلوات الله عليهم، ذاك الذي يفتح الله على يديه مشارق الأرض ومغاربها، ذاك الذي يغيب عن شيعته وأوليائه غيبة لا يثبت فيها على القول بإمامته إلا من امتحن الله قلبه للإيمان قال جابر فقلت له يا رسول الله فهل لشيعته الإِنتفاع به في غيبته فقال أي والذي بعثني بالنبوة إنهم يستضيؤون بنوره وينتفعون بولايته في غيبته كانتفاع الناس بالشمس وان تجلاها سحاب يا جابر هذا من مكنون سر الله ومخزون علم الله فاكتمه الا عن أهله والأخبار في هذا المعنى في الكتب المتداولة المعتبرة لا تحصى كثرة.

The above is taken from www.altafsir.com from a Shiite tafsir. A translation that exists online of the above is:

....from Jabir ibn Abdillah al-Ansari that he said: "When Allah, the Mighty, the Great, sent to His Prophet, Muhammad (s.a.w.), the verse, O you who believe! obey Allah and the Messenger and those vested with authority from among you, I said, 'O Messenger of Allah! We know Allah and His Messenger, but who are those vested with authority whose obedience Allah has conjoined to your obedience? (The Prophet) said: 'They are my caliphs, O Jabir! and the Imams of the Muslims after me. The first of them is 'Ali son of Abutalib, then al-Hasan, then al-Husayn, then 'Ali son of al-Husayn, then Muhammad son of 'Ali who is mentioned as al-Baqir in the Torah; you will surely meet him, O Jabir! when you see him convey my salam (greetings) to him. Then as-Sadiq Ja'far son of Muhammad; then Musa son of Ja'far; then 'Ali son of Musa; then Muhammad son of 'Ali; then 'Ali son of Muhammad; then al-Hasan son of 'Ali; then Muhammad (whose name and patronym will be the same as mine) son of al-Hasan, the Proof of Allah on His earth andBaqiyyatullah (the one kept safe by Allah) among His servants; he is the one by whose hands Allah, Sublime is His remembrance, will conquer the whole world from the east to the west; he it is who will remain hidden from his followers and friends for a such a long period that no one will remain firm on the belief of his imamah except he whose heart has been tested by Allah for faith.'"Jabir says: "I said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Will his followers get any benefit from him during his occultation?' (The Prophet, s.a.w.) said: 'Certainly, by Him Who has sent me with prophethood! they will be guided by his light and benefit from his wilayah(love, mastership) during his occultation as people benefit from the sun when it is hidden in cloud. O Jabir! this is part of the hidden secrets of Allah. So keep it hidden except from the people who deserve to know.'" (Tafsir al-Burhan )

The hadiths that mention the Ulil-Amr are the Awsiya (successors) or caliphs or Imams are many.

There are also many hadiths that talk about Awisya or Caliphs or Imams after Rasool to be 12. There are many hadiths that name the 12 Imams as well, including many from the Messenger.

Now some people are asserting aside from Imammate, there are Mahdiyeen to be followed AFTER the 12 Imams.

1. What is Imammate?

Imammate in it’s simplicity refers to leadership. Now a Imam by this definition, can mean two things:

1. A thing which is followed.

2. A thing that ought to be followed.

In Arabic, depending on the context, words sometimes take the meaning of simply observation, and sometimes they take the meaning as things ought to be. For example, the Quran does state people worship other then God and have their own gods. But from another angle, it states there is no god but God.

In English language, people often will say “a real leader is...” or “a real father...”, meaning, they talk about what a leader should be, or a father should be.

I also put “thing” because in Arabic, Leader can also refer to a book, as in the case of the Torah or Quran.

If we go back to the 1st definition of leadership (that which is followed), this can be divided into following parts rationally:

1. Those leaders who ought to be followed (real Leader)

2. Those leaders who should not be followed.

3. Those leaders who can be followed but it’s not that they ought to be followed or not followed. It’s a choice of people.

In Islam category 3 doesn’t exist. It’s something people assume and it’s a huge assumption that a leader exists in which neither should be followed nor should not be but can be followed, but there is a noble hadith from one the 12 Imams:

Ali Ibne Ibrahim, Kulaini, Saffar, Ibne Mahyar and others with many chains of narrators have narrated from Imam Sadiq and Baqir (a.s.) that there are two types of Imams according to the book of Allah, because Allah has said:And we made of them Imams to guide by our command... (Surah Sajdah 32:24)That is they guide people according to Allah’s command and not according the wish and will of the people and they give preference to the commands of Allah rather than their own. At another place He says:And we made them Imams who call to the fire…It means the leaders of disbelief and deviation who prefer their own opinion to that of Allah and give judgements according to their whims and fancies against the orders of Allah.

 

In other words, the category of leadership of “that which is followed” comes down to two:

1. That which ought to be followed.

2. That which ought to be not followed.

As for 1, it was argued it refers to the leaders that guide according to God’s command. A study of other hadiths and series of verses about “Imams who guide by our command” and verses about Imam will show this is a divine position that cannot be assigned by people.

For example, there is a connection of those verses with the verse appointing Abraham as a leader.

The leadership that exists is that of divine type only. In fact this also supported by the following verse:

Say: Is there any of your associates who guides to the truth? Say: Allah guides to the truth. Is He then Who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who himself does not go aright unless he is guided? What then is the matter with you; how do you judge?

We see in this verse, God says he guides by the truth. Then says in an exclusive or who is more more worth of being followed. Meaning the latter obviously cannot be followed for the sake of following God.

Now if we read the 7th Surah, there was much emphasis on the ummatan that guide by the truth from the people of Moses and that among who God created is a people who guide to the truth. We can also derive the only people who guide by the truth is who following would be directly following God and who by which God guides to the truth.

The context of the verse and with the Surah is obviously used to prove Prophets. If normal people can be said to be which God guides to the truth by, then, it would not be a proof for Prophethood.

The context of Ulil-Amr and “Your Wali is only....” are also important.

Regarding the verse 4:53 “....do they have a share of the authority (mulk)...”

في الكافي عن الباقر عليه الصلاة والسلام أم لهم نصيب من الملك يعني الإمامة والخلافة قال ونحن الناس الذين عنى الله والنقير النقطة التي في وسط النواة.

In al-kafi attirbuted to Al-Baqir (peace and blessings be upon uim) “Do they have share of the authority...” meaning the leadership and successorship (Imammah and khilafah), and we are the people that God meant....

The hadiths mentioning that “the great authority” the family of Abraham were given in the context refers to Imammate or obedience that is obligatory are also numerous.

The context of the verses show that Jewish and Christian scholars were leading their people against Mohammad and denying he was a Messenger. The Quran then asks following important questions for humanity to ponder upon:

1. Their claim of purity, does it have any proof, and can any other then God declare anyone pure.

2. Their claim of religious authority, was it it if not a claim to God’s authority, since they are claiming to represent Moses or Jesus or Prophets, they are claiming both Imammate and Caliphate, are they not?

3. Do they in fact have a share of such authority when they would not benefit certain people even worth an atom’s worth.

4. Is the true intention that they envy people while they accept chosen leaders in the past, like the family of Abraham, and accept a bloodline in the past, and acknowledge such people were given the book (ie. revelation/prophethood), the wisdom, and given a great authority.

5. What were the consequences of people turning away from divine authority in the past and what they now.

6. In this context, Allah [swt] advises humanity to believe, and advises those who believe to obey God and obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from them. Who are then those who possess authority in light of the above.

 

There is a similar theme in Suratal Maeda where believers are advised not to take people of the book as authorities to be followed, and then the question arises, what about in the future or future religious scholars after Mohammad. The Quran then says “Your Wali is only God and the Messenger and those who believe: those who keep up prayer, and give zakan (even) while they bow.”

The verse was revealed when Imam Ali gave his ring to a begger in Salah while others ignored him while praying. Allah [swt] revealed this verse, and we know through numerous hadiths that the family of Mohammad are a category of people on their own, and the successors cannot be compared to others. Thus this verse negates the authority of all other then Allah [swt] and Ahlulbayt (as).

A problem with the claim of the Yemeni is that he is claiming to represent Imam. But if we think about it, the verses before show, obligatory obedience or representing God or Prophets, would be a claim to Imammate. So this would make him an Imam.

Now this contradicts the numerous hadiths of 12 successor or 12 Imams. Aside from that, is that the Nabi named all 12 Imams as a proof for them and it forms part of the clear proof that 12ver Islam is the truth as far as the claim of which Imams are to be followed.

The Quran also designated the “upright religion” to be “twelve months, four of them being sacred” as a parable of the true religion. It also mentions 12 Captains with the covenant of Moses and we see reminder of 12 when talking about the people who guide by the truth in the nation of Moses. One way of translating is that they were divided in 12 ways, over all being grandsons linking back to one grandfather, and that the 12 rivers represented a parable of the covenant of the leaders AFTER Moses, that they were each to drink from the river they knew they were meant to drink from.

So we see allusions to 12 in Quran, and even a parable that the upright religion is 12 months, four of them being sacred.

Aside from that, is reasoning, that the Allah [swt] would designate Ulil-Amr to be obeyed, and then leave people to be confused as to why they are. The hadiths that designate the names of the Ulil-Amr from Rasool are ONLY the names of the 12 Imams. There is no other hadiths with other names. This shows rationally that these hold to be true.

The 12 Mahdis aside from that, are never mentioned to be Imams. That is the hadith never mention them to be 12 Imams, then 12 Imams. This shows that what they meant was that the Mahdis were other then Imams. But we already proved this to be wrong by ahadith that show any type of obligatory religious leadership or religious leadership in general that emphasizes they should be followed, is Imammate.

Now that is why the hujja (proofs) of Imams are not a single person or special people, but rather the ahadith shows they are people who narrate the teachings of Ahlulbayt in general.

And in fact, the Quran tells all of humanity to be Rabaniyoon (religious pious scholars who worship God sincerely, teach divine knowledge to others, and free from the worldly desires).

Prophets always needed believers as helpers, but as Quran shows, it wasn’t for believers to say “listen to us and obey us”, but rather they were suppose to call to the Prophets and revelation, and say “look towards what we have to say and listen to only the truth we convey from the Prophets and Imams”.

Now Satan has fabricated so much so that the Torah was lost, the Injeel (gospel) was lost, etc. The Quran although protected, it cannot be expected that fabrications from Iblis and his army don’t exist regarding hadiths attributed to 12 Imams.

That is why we have to rationally break down hadiths, see if they correspond to Quran or not, and also if they are all narrated by people deemed to be liars or are unknown, although we shouldn’t deny them for the latter reason, we should be extra careful, and not make uncertain foundations into what we leave certainty and certain foundations that firmly established.

Edited by LinkZelda

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37 minutes ago, enigma313 said:

Salam OP and @DigitalUmmah, but who is this ahmad al hassan?  Someone tried to tell me about this concept of 12 Mahdis after the 12 Imams, can you shed some light on this?  It would be much appreciated. 

ahmad al hassan claims to be the first mahdi, the so called "yamani". even though he is from Basra, Iraq.

Praise be the lord who has made our enemies idiots
Imam Jafar Sadiq (as)

have you ever seen the series "the arrivals"? they are his adherents. after "the arrivals" there was a lesser known series "the arrived" which was basically how this basran idiot is the saviour.

oh, and fun fact: they are constantly trying to assasinate sayed sistani, including an attempt on arbaeen. because they are such great shia.

May Allah curse this dajjal and guide his followers.

the 12 Mahdis after the 12 Imams are the 12 Imams themselves returning during the Raj'ah. its one of the starts of judgement day.
 

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31 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

ahmad al hassan claims to be the first mahdi, the so called "yamani". even though he is from Basra, Iraq.

Praise be the lord who has made our enemies idiots
Imam Jafar Sadiq (as)

have you ever seen the series "the arrivals"? they are his adherents. after "the arrivals" there was a lesser known series "the arrived" which was basically how this basran idiot is the saviour.

oh, and fun fact: they are constantly trying to assasinate sayed sistani, including an attempt on arbaeen. because they are such great shia.

May Allah curse this dajjal and guide his followers.

the 12 Mahdis after the 12 Imams are the 12 Imams themselves returning during the Raj'ah. its one of the starts of judgement day.
 

Thank you for this information.  Do you know where I can read more about this, is it on al-islam.org?  

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On 25/10/2016 at 7:11 PM, LinkZelda said:

A problem with the claim of the Yemeni is that he is claiming to represent Imam. But if we think about it, the verses before show, obligatory obedience or representing God or Prophets, would be a claim to Imammate. So this would make him an Imam.

The Imamate continues with the 12 Mahdis after Imam al-Mahdi pbuh mentioned in Prophet's Will pbuh, because only an Infallible Imam can be a Successor of an Infallible Imam and the Prophet pbuhap has clearly stated that the 1st Mahdi which is named Ahmed is the Successor of Imam al-Mahdi pbuh.

Shaheed al-Sadr r.a. confirms that the Imamate continues with Imam al-Mahdi's pbuh Successor pbuh.

Sayed Muhammad Saadiq AlSader:"And from here Imam Al Mahdi pbuh will appoint a Khaleefa(successor)during his life, or at the end of his year,so that he will become the highest chief for the nation of the world of justice after him,and the first ruler from the period of the prefered and righteous ones of Allah" Mawsoo'a of Sayed Al Sader p.645 Tareekh Ma Ba'ad Al Thuhoor

Sheikh Korani who is considered to be one of those who are specialists according to Shia Twelvers about the signs of Imam Al Mahdi pbuh defends the Imamate of the 12 Mahdis pbut.

And the meaning from his words may Allah have mercy on him[AlBayathi]:" Is that Shareef AlMurthatha may Allah have mercy on him defended about the narrations on the continuation of Takleef(religious accountability)and the general Imamate after Imam AlMahdi pbuh with his sons the Mahdyeen(Mahdis). And he said that this doesn't conflict with that the Imams pbut are 12 and not more because they are the origin and the ones who remain from their branches and their continuation. 

Mujam Mawthoo'i liHadeeth Imam AlMahdi pbuh p.305

Only an Infallible Imam can be the Successor of an Infallible Imam, so the son and successor of Imam Mohammed al-Mahdi may Allah hasten his return is also an Infallable Imam. Otherwise we accept Sunni misguidance that Abu Bakr was righteous Caliph and we go outside of the fold of Shia Islam.

On 25/10/2016 at 7:11 PM, LinkZelda said:

Now this contradicts the numerous hadiths of 12 successor or 12 Imams. Aside from that, is that the Nabi named all 12 Imams as a proof for them and it forms part of the clear proof that 12ver Islam is the truth as far as the claim of which Imams are to be followed.

 

 


It doesn't contradict the hadeeths because Rasulullah sawas in his will has mentioned 12 Imams and 12 Mahdis and he sawas mentioned it like that for a specific reason he didn't say 24 Imams. And Allah swt knows best. It is a difficult test upon the Shias.  Again if we look on Shareef al Murthatha one of the greatest classical Shia scholars, which he said that the narrations of 12 Mahdis pbut does not contradict with 12 Imams pbut because they are the origin and the ones who remain from their branches and their continuation. 

On 25/10/2016 at 7:11 PM, LinkZelda said:

The Quran also designated the “upright religion” to be “twelve months, four of them being sacred” as a parable of the true religion. It also mentions 12 Captains with the covenant of Moses and we see reminder of 12 when talking about the people who guide by the truth in the nation of Moses. One way of translating is that they were divided in 12 ways, over all being grandsons linking back to one grandfather, and that the 12 rivers represented a parable of the covenant of the leaders AFTER Moses, that they were each to drink from the river they knew they were meant to drink from.

 

So we see allusions to 12 in Quran, and even a parable that the upright religion is 12 months, four of them being sacred.


Imam Jaafer al-Sadiq pbuh said: "The night is 12 hours, the day is 12 hours, the months are 12, the Imams are 12, the captains (Nuqaba) are 12... Ali is an hour from the 12 hours  - Gaibat al Numani page 87. 

Since Ali pbuh is an hour from the 12, is it one hour from the day or night because there are 12 hours for night and day ?

From Muhammed al-Baqir pbuh- Muhammed ibn Muslim asked him about "By the night as it conceals it". He said: The night in this position is a person who velied the Prince of the believers pbuh in his nation that occured to him and Prince of the believers pbuh became patient until it ended." Tafseer al-Qumi v2. p.425

Imam Ali pbuh according to the verse in the Quran "By night as it conceals"  - Imam Ali pbuh is an important figure within the nation of injustice that has been concealed. 

Imam Ali pbuh is the first hour of the 12 hours of the night.. Day is 12 hours and night is 12 hours. Ali pbuh is an hour of the night. We know that the 12 hours of night are the 12 Imams pbut since Imam Ali pbuh is the first of them....  but still we have 12 hours of day left now... 

Surat Al Lail verse 3: By the day as it shows up (the sun's) glory. Imam Jafar al-Sadiq pbuh said: "Day is from the Riser pbuh, he is from us Ahlulbayt, when he rises he will defeat the nation of unjustice.

Since the first hours of the twelve for night is Imam Ali pbuh, who is the first hour of of the twelve for day ?? 

The first hour of the 12 hours of the day is the Successor of Imam al-Mahdi pbuh - Ahmed... the Yamani who will fight through the battles... the 1 of 313...  mentioned in the Will as the first believer and the first of the 12 Mahdis ( Hours of day) 

The Prophet Muhammad pbuhap said to Ali bin Abi Talib on the night of his death: "“O Father of Al-Hassan, bring me a pen and a paper”, and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said, “O Ali, there will be twelve Imams after me and after them there will be twelve Mahdis. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams...... 
.....Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Muhammad the Entrusted of the Holy Family of Muhammad peace be upon them. So these are the twelve Imams. Then after him, there will be twelve Mahdis. So if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my father’s: Abdullah (servant of Allah), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (rightly guided). He is the first of the believers.”  Sheikh Al-Toosi, Al-Ghayba p.150


Imam Jaafer al-Sadiq pbuh said: "The night is 12 hours, the day is 12 hours, the months are 12, the Imams are 12, the captains (Nuqaba) are 12... Ali is an hour from the 12 hours  - Gaibat al Numani page 87. 
Imam Jaafer al-Sadiq pbuh: " “from among us 12 Mahdies after the Qa’im [pbuh] from the progeny of Hussain [pbuh]” –Muntakhab Al-Anwar Al-Mude’ah, Sayyed Baha’a Al-Deen Al-Najafi p.353-354


24 Infallibles pbut in Sunni Islam:  14769- In Tafseer son of Abi Hatem hadeeth #13730 2682  v.8 Ibn Abi Hatem Al Razi Tafseer Abi Hatem from Ka'ab Al Ahbar he said: They are 12 and when they all pass there will be 12 similar to them replacing them. 

in Injeel: Around the throne were 24 thrones, and on the throne I saw twenty-four elders sitting clothed in white robes and they had crowns of gold on their heads. Revelations 4:4

So this matter has been hidden and now has been revealed by Imam Ahmed al-Hassan pbuh. The throne in the middle is Prophet Mohammed pbuh and the 24 thrones around him are the 12 Imams pbut and the 12 Mahdis pbut. Throughout history there has been a hidden message within the words of Ahlulbayt pbut along with the Bible and Quran that no one has been able to see it. And now the matter has been revealed by the Successor of Imam al-Mahdi pbuh, the Yamani of the family of Mohammed pbuhap- Ahmed al-Hassan.  

Abi Jafer pbuh said: "The Mahdi is called Mahdi because he guides to a matter that has been hidden." - Gaibat al Numani pages 242-243

 

On 25/10/2016 at 7:11 PM, LinkZelda said:

Aside from that, is reasoning, that the Allah [swt] would designate Ulil-Amr to be obeyed, and then leave people to be confused as to why they are. The hadiths that designate the names of the Ulil-Amr from Rasool are ONLY the names of the 12 Imams. There is no other hadiths with other names. This shows rationally that these hold to be true.


We have the Will of the Prophet pbuh proven to be an authentic one with defenity degree of surety by Sheikh al-Tusi r.a. The will which the Prophet pbuh has said in the most authentic Sunni books that it is a statement after which you will never go astray- in which it says that Imam al-Mahdi's pbuh successor is a Mahdi Ahmed who is obligotary to be followed. We also have 100 narrations that speak about a Successor of Imam al-Mahdi pbuh. We have following narrations about the Mahdi Ahmed - 3 names11.png  do you think the Prophet pbuh would have left the Muslims to be confused who this Ahmed is ?? Of course he wouldn't, that is why he made it clear who the Mahdi Ahmed is in his Will on the night of his death which was written down by Imam Ali pbuh. 

 

On 25/10/2016 at 7:11 PM, LinkZelda said:

The 12 Mahdis aside from that, are never mentioned to be Imams. That is the hadith never mention them to be 12 Imams, then 12 Imams. This shows that what they meant was that the Mahdis were other then Imams. But we already proved this to be wrong by ahadith that show any type of obligatory religious leadership or religious leadership in general that emphasizes they should be followed, is Imammate.

 


If the 1st Mahdi Ahmed is the Successor Caliph of Imam Mohammed al-Mahdi pbuh , how can he not be an Imam when all Caliphs of Allah swt since Adam pbut were Imams pbut ?? If we accept this then we accept the Sunni claim of the "righteous Caliphs"  Abu Bakr , Omar ... 

 

With us is the banner of truth and guidance, whoever turns away from it has transgressed and whoever abandoned it is in loss. - Imam Ali pbuh book of Sulaim ibn Qais p 257-259.

Imam al Baqer pbuh : " There is no banner more guiding than the banner of the Yamani, it is the banner of guidance, whoever turns away from it it is from the people of hellfire."  Gaibat al Numani p. 264. 

There is no way to survive hell, except by the banner of the Yamani , because all other banners are misguidance even Khurasani if he doesn't accept him. So the Yamani which is the 1 of 313, which Prophet Mohammed sawas has told us that is named Ahmed and is a Mahdi, the first of believers in his Will is an Infallible Imam because only if you don't give bayah to an Infallible Imam designated by Allah swt upon humanity you go to hell, you don't go to hellfire if you don't accept the banner of a fallable leader who doesn't hold Imamate. 

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1 hour ago, Sadr City said:


It doesn't contradict the hadeeths because Rasulullah sawas in his will has mentioned 12 Imams and 12 Mahdis and he sawas mentioned it like that for a specific reason he didn't say 24 Imams.

The vast majority of ahadith mention 12 Imams, and yes no hadith mentions 24 Imams. Aside from that, the 12 Imams named and their lineage is well known.  The remaining 12 out 24 you are talking about are not named.

There is absolutely no reason to confuse people by not saying 24 Imams, but rather emphasize in vast majority of the time, that there is 12 Imams.

There is many ahadith that say Imam Mahdi is the last HUJJA, that there is no Imam or hujja after him.

The point is, you admitted this would make 24 Imams. To you it doesn't contradict the vast majority of ahadith that mention 12 Successors.

Well aside from Rasool limiting number to 12 Successors,  I have proven in other threads the Quran does the same: 

 

If there could be more then 12 Imams or 12 Successors, then the ahadith saying there is 12 Successors would serve no purpose. 

There is a clear contradiction.  It's because it really would be 24 Imams and 24 successors. And also notice we only have the 12 Imams all named, we don't have a hadith naming all 24 Successors or Imams. 

 

 

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On 29/10/2016 at 5:42 PM, LinkZelda said:

 The remaining 12 out 24 you are talking about are not named.

Huthayfa ibn AlYamani heard the Prophet of Allah pbuh say:"He will be given allegiance between the Rukn and Maqam his name is Ahmad,Abdullah,and Mahdi, that is his three names." Gaiba Al-Tusi p.305,p.299,p.454,p.470/Bihar v.52 p.291 Mujam Ahadeeth Al-Korani v.1 p.453/Al-Khara'ej Al-Jara'eh Leqatb AlDeen Al-Rawandi p.1149 

Then the Prophet pbuhap told us who this person is in his Will and named him by his name and title, which he said whoever followed would never go astray - Ahmed the son and successor of Imam al-Mahdi pbuh.

The Prophet Muhammad pbuhap said to Ali bin Abi Talib on the night of his death: "“O Father of Al-Hassan, bring me a pen and a paper”, and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said, “O Ali, there will be twelve Imams after me and after them there will be twelve Mahdis. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams...... 
.....Then if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, Muhammad the Entrusted of the Holy Family of Muhammad peace be upon them. So these are the twelve Imams. Then after him, there will be twelve Mahdis. So if death approaches him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my father’s: Abdullah (servant of Allah), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (rightly guided). He is the first of the believers.”  Sheikh Al-Toosi, Al-Ghayba p.150

We have the 13th Successor named, Ahmed who is a Mahdi, born in end times, the first of the believers and Successor of Muhammed al-Mahdi may Allah hasten his return. So is it reasonable and logical that we deny him pbuh because we don't know the names of the other 11 Mahdis up to the 24th which is the 12th Mahdi pbuh from the progeny of Imam al-Mahdi pbuh ?? 

 

On 29/10/2016 at 5:42 PM, LinkZelda said:

Aside from that, the 12 Imams named and their lineage is well known. 


Imam Ali a.s on the pulpit of Kufa said"There has to be a mill that crushes and when its axle begins to start it,Allah will send a harsh servant(slave of His) whose descent is unknown.Victory will be with him,his companions will have long hair(symbolic for ideas)people of Sibal,clothes are black,people with black banners.Woe onto whoever fights them as they will be killed atrociously.By Allah, as if I am looking at them and their works, and what the evil doers will see from them and the ill-mannered Arabs.Allah will make them revolt against them without any mercy,they will kill them in their own city on the shore of Euphrates the sea region and desert region." Gaibat AlNumani p.265

Imam Ali pbuh said:"When armies get ready, different leaders rise, revolters rebel and unbelievers perish then the expected Qaim and the unknown Imam will appear with honor and virtue." v.52 p.235 Bihar Al Anwar

The expected Qaim is Imam al-Mahdi pbuh and the unknown Imam is his son and Successor - Ahmed pbuh.

On 29/10/2016 at 5:42 PM, LinkZelda said:

The point is, you admitted this would make 24 Imams. To you it doesn't contradict the vast majority of ahadith that mention 12 Successors.

 

 

Shareef AlMurthatha may Allah have mercy on him defended about the narrations on the continuation of Takleef(religious accountability)and the general Imamate after Imam AlMahdi pbuh with his sons the Mahdyeen(Mahdis). And he said that this doesn't conflict with that the Imams pbut are 12 and not more because they are the origin and the ones who remain from their branches and their continuation. 

Mujam Mawthoo'i liHadeeth Imam AlMahdi pbuh p.305

 

From the Prophet(saw)that he mentioned the Mahdi pbuh,and what Allah swt will give him from the blessings and conquering by his hand.So it was asked O Messenger of Allah all of that Allah swt will gather for him?He said:Yes.And what hasn't occured during his lifetime and his days,it shall occur during the times of the Imams after him from his offspring"Sharh Al Akhbar v.2 p.39 

Imam Ritha pbuh said:"And peace and blessings upon your guardian(Imam Al Mahdi)and those who bear your promise and the Imams from his sons”Bihar AlAnwar v.99 p.114 v.52 p.20 Gaibat AlToosi p.186 Jamal AlIsboo p.301

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4 hours ago, Sadr City said:

So is it reasonable and logical that we deny him pbuh because we don't know the names of the other 11 Mahdis up to the 24th which is the 12th Mahdi pbuh from the progeny of Imam al-Mahdi pbuh ?? 

Yes there is no reason to name only 12 or 13 out of the 24. If there were 24 Imams, the Rasool would of named them all.

Quote

 And he said that this doesn't conflict with that the Imams pbut are 12 and not more because they are the origin and the ones who remain from their branches and their continuation. 

I'm sorry but it does conflict. Appeal to authority isn't going to help you here.

It would mean there is more then 12 Successors or Imams whether or not they are branches of one another or not.

 

 

 

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Salam all,

I have been reading on SC about Yamani. Shamefully admitting that i never heard or read the idea of 12 Mahdi after 12 Imams before!

Been reading the thread in this topic and everyone is so well researched that i feel embarrassed asking this...as you read the various transmissions/hadith...it keeps on saying 'AFTER 12 Imams there will be 12 Mahdis.' I am having issue with the word AFTER, because surely the cornerstone of Shia belief is that 12th Imam(AS) is in Occultation and we all wait for his appearance. He isnt dead, that is why we call him our Imam e Zamana Imam of the time. So if he hasnt appeared and he isnt dead, and presuming that this Hadiths "AFTER 12 Imams...12 Mahdis" is true, how can we accept the appearance of someone claiming to be the 5th generation son of Al Mahdi? Or believe that this Hadith is correct?

Anyone else confused?

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