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Question about sufis

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Nobody prays towards pictures 

 

We pray in any direction as Allah is everywhere 

 

Also we face the Dede when we are being taught 

Did Hz Muhammed go around the Kabe?

 

Why don't you pray give timesa day as the hadiths say?It's Zoroastrian  

72 virgins Zoroastrian 

Heaven and hell Zoroastrian

 

 

Edited by AleviTurkmenKhorasan

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Allah is not everywhere. He is unlimited, but not everywhere.

As for the prayers, I got this from another website.

  1. Maintain with care the [obligatory] prayers and [in particular] the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient. -- al-Baqara 2:238

  2. And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember. -- Hud 11:114

  3. O you who have believed, let those whom your right hands possess and those who have not [yet] reached puberty among you ask permission of you [before entering] at three times: before the dawn prayer and when you put aside your clothing [for rest] at noon and after the night prayer. [These are] three times of privacy for you. There is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these [periods], for they continually circulate among you - some of you, among others. Thus does Allah make clear to you the verses; and Allah is Knowing and Wise. -- an-Nur 24:58

Verse 1 tells us that there is a middle prayer which means there are at least 3 prayers and doesn't mention the exact number of prayers.

Verse 2 tells us that during daylight we have 2 prayers (duhr and a'sr) and one when the night approaches (al-maghrib) (see also this Fatwa in Arabic): With (only) this information it's still possible that we only have 3 prayers, but

Verse 3 which teaches us about the resting times mention clearly the fajr/sobh prayer and the I'sha prayer as the fajr itself is a not mentioned time in the 2 Verses before we find out we really have 5 prayers mentioned in the Quran!

Now we find we have 5 prayers or prayer times mentioned in the Quran.

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This whole needs translating

 


Aleviler Neden Camiye Gitmezler ?
Hz. ALİ Camide mi ŞEHİT Edildi ?
Denilmektedir ki,ey Aleviler, Hz. Ali camiye gidip namaz kılıyordu ve
hatta camide namaz kılarken öldürüldü.O halde siz ne diye 
camiye gitmiyor ve namaz kılmıyorsunuz?
CEVAP :
Bir; Hz. Ali döneminde cami diye bir ibadethane yoktu!
İki; Hz. Ali’nin yaptığı ibadetin bugün Sünni ve Şiilerin kıldığı namazla ilgisi yoktu!
Üç; Hz. Ali’nin camide ve namaz kılarken öldürüldüğü doğru değildir.
Evet, o dönemde cami diye bir ibadethane yoktu.
Nasıl mı? Şöyle;
O dönemde ibadethanelerin adı “ mescid” idi ki halen Arap dünyasında ibadethanelere “mescid” denmektedir. 
Nitekim Kur’an’da da İslam ibadethanesi olarak “büyut / evler”le birlikte mescid ifadesi yer almaktadır. Cami sözcüğü genelde ülkemizde, Kafkasya, Orta Asya ve Balkanlarda kullanılmaktadır. Bununla birlikte cami denildiğinde minareli, kubbeli, minber ve mihraplı mekânlar akla gelmektedir. Oysa Hz. Ali’nin döneminde ve o dönemki Irak coğrafyasında bu şekilde ve bu tarz mimari özellikte mekânlar yoktu. Her ne kadar Halife Ömer döneminde Filistin ve Suriye’nin fethiyle Müslümanlar minare ve kubbe gibi mimari yapıları Hıristiyanlardan görmüş olsalar da bu unsurların İslam mabetlerine taşınması çok sonraki dönemlerde, özellikle de Emevîler döneminde gerçekleşmiştir.
İslam mabetleri, minaresiz, kubbesiz, minber ve mihrapsız mekânlardı. Bu açıdan bakıldığında son derece mütevazı, sade yani gösterişsiz yapılar olan İslam mabetleri günümüzdeki Cem evleriyle büyük ölçüde benzeşen mescidlerdir.
“Hz. Ali camiye gidiyordu, o halde siz de buyurun camiye gelin!” demek apaçık bir demagojidir. Bu demagojiye inanıp camiye gitmeyi gerekli görenler çıkar mı bilmem ama eğer çıkarsa yahut böyle kimseler varsa onlar bilsinler ki, bu iddianın hiçbir tarihsel geçerliliği yoktur. Cami isimli yapılar mimari manada Hıristiyan orijinli ve Emevîlerle özdeşleşmiş mekânlar olup bütün Müslümanların ortak ibadethanesi olabilme vasfından son derece uzaktırlar. 
Bu görüşümüzün yanlış anlaşılmasını asla istemeyiz. 
Zira bize göre her ibadethane değerli ve saygındır. Bu bağlamda camiler de değerli ve saygın mekânlardır. Ancak cami üzerinden Cem evlerini ve Aleviliği itibarsızlaştırma ya da İslam tarihi dışına atma çalışması ve çarpıtmasına karşı bir nevi “nefsi müdafaa” yapma hakkımız gereği bu satırları yazma zorunluluğu hâsıl olmaktadır.
Cem evleri bir İslam mabedi olarak hem Kur’an kaynaklıdır, hem de nebevi sünnete dayanmaktadır. Nur Suresi 35. ve 36. ayetlerde açıkça ibadet edilen evlerden yani günümüz diliyle söylersek Cem evlerinden bahsedilmektedir.
Öte yandan mescid sözü de semantik / anlambilimsel açıdan Cem evi ile örtüşmektedir. Şöyle ki; mescid, secde edilen yer demektedir. Cem evleri de secde edilen yerlerdir. Yani Cem evleri de bir nevi mesciddir. Nitekim Medine’de Hz. Peygamber ve ilk Müslümanlarca yapılan Mescid – i Nebi de o dönemin Cem evidir. 
O halde Hazreti Ali ibadet etmek için camiye değil mescide yani Türkçesini söylersek Cem evine gidiyordu. 
Hazreti Ali’yi camiye sokmak, gerçek dışı bir tarih inşasından başka bir şey değildir.
Açıkça ifade etmek zorundayım: 
Bugünün Cem evleri Hz. Muhammed dönemindeki mescidlerdir. 
Bu hem mimari olarak böyledir hem de fonksiyon itibariyle böyledir. Mimari manadaki benzerliği hatta özdeşliği yukarıda dile getirmiştik. Fonksiyon itibariyle olan benzerlik yahut özdeşlik ise şöyledir:
Peygamberimizin dönemindeki mescidler / mabedler toplumsal yaşamın merkezi idiler. Orada törensel anlamda Tanrı’ya yakarmanın dışında sosyal hayatın neredeyse tüm unsurları yer bulmaktaydı. Hukuki, ahlaki, ticari, sportif konular ve hatta eğlence vb. etkinlikler bile mescidlerin işlevleri arasındaydı. O halde soralım; bugünün camilerinde bu saydıklarımızın hangisi var? Ne acı ki, artık camilerde namaz adı verilen ritüellerden başka neredeyse hiçbir şey yapılmamaktadır.
Peki ya Cem evleri? 
Cem evlerinde hem Tanrı’ya yakarılmakta hem de pek çok kültürel ve sosyal etkinlik icra edilmektedir. Egemen din anlayışının ve onun emrindeki devletin tüm engellemelerine rağmen Cem evlerinde ibadet ve sosyokültürel etkinliklerin dışında dedelerin kılavuzluğuyla bir kısım hukuki meseleler de halledilmekte, dargınlar barıştırılmak da, haksızlığa uğrayanların mağduriyetleri giderilmeye çalışılmakta ve dayanışma içerisinde toplumsal barışın güçlendirilmesine uğraş verilmektedir. Müzik ve enstrüman kursları, paneller, konferanslar, sergiler düzenlenmektedir.
O halde vicdan sahibi olan herkese bir kez daha soralım:
Cem evlerine ibadethane değil demek ilimle, insafla, izanla, vicdanla ve İslam’la izah edilebilir mi?
Gelelim namaz meselesine…
Hazreti Ali, bugün Sünni ve Şii Müslümanların kıldığı gibi mi namaz kılıyordu?
Hazreti Ali, namaz kılarken mi öldürüldü? 
Öncelikle şunu ifade edelim ki, Alevi inancına göre Hazreti Ali ölmüş değildir. O şehit olmuş ve Hakk’a yürümüştür.
Bir kısım Sünni ve Şii çevreler Alevileri namaza ve camiye çekebilmek için, “Hazreti Ali camide namaz kılarken şehit edildi; o bir cami ve namaz şehididir.” demektedirler. Oysa gerçek onların ileri sürdüğü gibi değildir.
Hazreti Ali, Hicretin 40. yılı Ramazan ayının 19. gününün sabahı evinden çıkıp 8 adım atmışken Abdurrahman İbn Mülcem adındaki bir Haricinin zehirli kılıcı ile yaptığı saldırı sonucu yaralanmış, 3 gün boyunca yaralı olarak yatağında yatmış, bu sırada zehir vücuduna yayılmış ve 3. gün yani Ramazanın 21. günü “Kâbe’nin rabbi olan Allah’a hamdolsun ki kurtuldum!” diyerek Hakk’a yürümüştür.
Anlaşılacağı üzere Hazreti Ali, saldırıya uğradığında o sırada henüz mevcut olmayan bir camide bulunuyor değildi ve yine ibadet esnasında iken de bir saldırı ile karşılaşmış değildi.
Peki ya Hazreti Ali nasıl ibadet ediyordu?
İslam dininde adına “salat” denilen bir ibadet biçimi vardır. 
Bu ibadetin unsurları; kıyam yani ayakta durmak, rüku yani öne doğru eğilmek, secde yani yere kapanmak, ka’de yani oturmak, kıraat yani tüm bunları yaparken kur’an’dan ayetler okumaktır.
İşte Hazreti Ali böyle ibadet ediyordu. 
Hazreti Muhammed de böyle ibadet ediyordu. Bu şekilde ibadet etmek bugün Alevi Canlar tarafından da Cem ibadeti adı verilen dini törenlerde aynı biçimde sürdürülmekte yani 
Aleviler Hazreti Muhammed’in ve Hazreti Ali’nin ibadet ettiği gibi ibadet etmektedirler. Cem ibadeti; dara durarak, tecella ve temana ederek, secde ederek, oturarak ve bu bunları yaparken de Kur’an’dan ayetler okuyarak icra edilen bir ibadettir. 
Bu ibadet esnasında Kırkların Cemin de Hazreti Muhammed’den kalma Semah da dönülerek Hakk’a doğru ruhani bir yolculuğa çıkılmakta, Hakk ile Hakk olmak için turna misali manevi asumana kanat çırpılmaktadır.
Mustafa Cemil KILIÇ

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Bu ibadetin unsurları; kıyam yani ayakta durmak, rüku yani öne doğru eğilmek, secde yani yere kapanmak, ka’de yani oturmak, kıraat yani tüm bunları yaparken kur’an’dan ayetler okumaktır.
 

This is the way we pray And we have cem on Thursday and Semah 

 

We also pray to Allah with our hands open I.e. not posturing 

We don't count but we pray everyday 

İt's between Allah and soul 

 

Dedes do zikir and pray to Allah most of the time via tesbih and reading Quran 

Deyişler etc 

 

 

Edited by AleviTurkmenKhorasan

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On 07/02/2017 at 6:50 PM, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Our books were burned so we have "deyisler" and Dede speaking to us from father to son

Then Inshallah you should have some kind of books which narrate from those Ulema.

Like I said earlier, you could make a website with this kind of information.

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Yes we have a few, Shah Ismail wrote I believe 

İmam Caferi sadık Buyruk 

We also have seçere which our bloodline info

 

    1. Seyyid Nesimi, Şah Hatayi, Pir Sultan Abdal gibi Alevi Ozanlarının nefeslerinin ve deyişlerinin yer aldığı kitaplar3 (Cönkler ve Divan’lar),
    2. Buyruk olarak bilinen (Menakıb-ı İmam Cafer-i Sadık, Hutbe-i Düvaz-deh İmam/Menakıb-ı Seyyid Safi) kitaplar,4
    3. Hacı Bektaş Veli’nin müritleri ve diğer erenlerle yaşadığı olayları menkıbevi bir şekilde konu alan Makalat-ı Hacı Bektaş-ı Veli ve Velayet-name-i Hacı Bektaş-ı Veli adlı kitaplar,
    4. Yeminî’nin Faziletname-i İmam Ali adlı eseri,
    5. Fuzuli’nin Saadete Ermişlerin Bahçesi (Hadikat-üs-Suada) adlı eseri,
    6. Seyyid Ali Sultan, Hacım Sultan, Şücaettin Veli, Demir Baba, Otman Baba gibi erenlerin menkıbelerini anlatan risale, menakıbname ve vilayetnameler(Risale-i Virani Baba, Menakıb-ı Hacım Sultan, Velayetname-i Seyyid Ali Sultan Baba İlyas-ı Horasani Menakıbı, Şuca Baba Velayetnamesi, Otman Baba Velayetnamesi)
    7. Kerbela olayını konu alan Maktel-i Hüseyin (Kastamonulu Şazi’nin Maktel, Yahya b. Yahşi’nin Maktel, Edhem’in Vaka-i Kerbela, Hacı Nurettin’in Vakıa-i Kerbela, Cami’nin Saadetname, Lamii’nin Maktel-i Al-i Resul, Ali Ferruh’un Kerbela, İbnülemin Ali Haydar İlmi’ninHaile-i Kerbela, Kazım Paşa’nın Riyaz-ı Asfiya-Makalid-i Aşk) kitapları5
    8. Risale-iHüsniye,
    9. Kumru Kenz-il Mesaib ve Gülzâr-ı Hasaneyn

10. Cabbar KuluCavidan adlı el yazması (Osmanlıca) gibi eserlerin varolduğunu biliyoruz.

http://www.cemvakfi.org.tr/doc-dr-ali-yaman/aleviligin-yazili-kaynaklari-ve-alevi-buyruklari-hakkinda/

 

 

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8 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Yes we have a few, Shah Ismail wrote I believe 

İmam Caferi sadık Buyruk 

We also have seçere which our bloodline info

 

    1. Seyyid Nesimi, Şah Hatayi, Pir Sultan Abdal gibi Alevi Ozanlarının nefeslerinin ve deyişlerinin yer aldığı kitaplar3 (Cönkler ve Divan’lar),
    2. Buyruk olarak bilinen (Menakıb-ı İmam Cafer-i Sadık, Hutbe-i Düvaz-deh İmam/Menakıb-ı Seyyid Safi) kitaplar,4
    3. Hacı Bektaş Veli’nin müritleri ve diğer erenlerle yaşadığı olayları menkıbevi bir şekilde konu alan Makalat-ı Hacı Bektaş-ı Veli ve Velayet-name-i Hacı Bektaş-ı Veli adlı kitaplar,
    4. Yeminî’nin Faziletname-i İmam Ali adlı eseri,
    5. Fuzuli’nin Saadete Ermişlerin Bahçesi (Hadikat-üs-Suada) adlı eseri,
    6. Seyyid Ali Sultan, Hacım Sultan, Şücaettin Veli, Demir Baba, Otman Baba gibi erenlerin menkıbelerini anlatan risale, menakıbname ve vilayetnameler(Risale-i Virani Baba, Menakıb-ı Hacım Sultan, Velayetname-i Seyyid Ali Sultan Baba İlyas-ı Horasani Menakıbı, Şuca Baba Velayetnamesi, Otman Baba Velayetnamesi)
    7. Kerbela olayını konu alan Maktel-i Hüseyin (Kastamonulu Şazi’nin Maktel, Yahya b. Yahşi’nin Maktel, Edhem’in Vaka-i Kerbela, Hacı Nurettin’in Vakıa-i Kerbela, Cami’nin Saadetname, Lamii’nin Maktel-i Al-i Resul, Ali Ferruh’un Kerbela, İbnülemin Ali Haydar İlmi’ninHaile-i Kerbela, Kazım Paşa’nın Riyaz-ı Asfiya-Makalid-i Aşk) kitapları5
    8. Risale-iHüsniye,
    9. Kumru Kenz-il Mesaib ve Gülzâr-ı Hasaneyn

10. Cabbar KuluCavidan adlı el yazması (Osmanlıca) gibi eserlerin varolduğunu biliyoruz.

 

http://www.cemvakfi.org.tr/doc-dr-ali-yaman/aleviligin-yazili-kaynaklari-ve-alevi-buyruklari-hakkinda/

 

 

Then Inshallah if theyy get translated to English I'll read some of them.

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On ‎4‎-‎2‎-‎2017 at 5:29 AM, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Allah is not everywhere. He is unlimited, but not everywhere.

As for the prayers, I got this from another website.

  1. Maintain with care the [obligatory] prayers and [in particular] the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient. -- al-Baqara 2:238

  2. And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember. -- Hud 11:114

  3. O you who have believed, let those whom your right hands possess and those who have not [yet] reached puberty among you ask permission of you [before entering] at three times: before the dawn prayer and when you put aside your clothing [for rest] at noon and after the night prayer. [These are] three times of privacy for you. There is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these [periods], for they continually circulate among you - some of you, among others. Thus does Allah make clear to you the verses; and Allah is Knowing and Wise. -- an-Nur 24:58

Verse 1 tells us that there is a middle prayer which means there are at least 3 prayers and doesn't mention the exact number of prayers.

Verse 2 tells us that during daylight we have 2 prayers (duhr and a'sr) and one when the night approaches (al-maghrib) (see also this Fatwa in Arabic): With (only) this information it's still possible that we only have 3 prayers, but

Verse 3 which teaches us about the resting times mention clearly the fajr/sobh prayer and the I'sha prayer as the fajr itself is a not mentioned time in the 2 Verses before we find out we really have 5 prayers mentioned in the Quran!

Now we find we have 5 prayers or prayer times mentioned in the Quran.

Brother,

Even the Sunni's admit that before the Miraj there was a tradition of 3 obligatory prayers:

113This was to urge Salat at three times, that is, Morning, Evening and `Isha. This shows that this was revealed before Salat had been made obligatory five times a day during the Mi'raj. (For explanation, see E.N. 95 of XVII, E.N. 111 of XX, and E.N. 124 of XXX).   

From Maududi's Tafsir on Surah Hud 113

Edited by Talut

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16 minutes ago, Talut said:

Brother,

Even the Sunni's admit that before the Miraj there was a tradition of 3 obligatory prayers:

113This was to urge Salat at three times, that is, Morning, Evening and `Isha. This shows that this was revealed before Salat had been made obligatory five times a day during the Mi'raj. (For explanation, see E.N. 95 of XVII, E.N. 111 of XX, and E.N. 124 of XXX).   

From Maududi's Tafsir on Surah Hud 113

Yes, 5 prayers in 3 times. 

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4 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Yes, 5 prayers in 3 times. 

Well I am not sure about that.

I always thought that Maghreb prayer was before Isha prayer but in Sunni tradition it seems there was only Isha.

113This was to urge Salat at three times, that is, Morning, Evening and `Isha.

Or maybe it wasnt Fajr-Dohr-Isha but Fajr-Maghreb-Isha

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited by Talut

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24 minutes ago, Talut said:

Well I am not sure about that.

I always thought that Maghreb prayer was before Isha prayer but in Sunni tradition it seems there was only Isha.

113This was to urge Salat at three times, that is, Morning, Evening and `Isha.

Or maybe it wasnt Fajr-Dohr-Isha but Fajr-Maghreb-Isha

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it was fajr maghrib isha. Because approach of the night means around maghrib.

Also Shia fuqaha are unanimous that there are 5 prayers prayed at 3 times.

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1 hour ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

I think it was fajr maghrib isha. Because approach of the night means around maghrib.

Also Shia fuqaha are unanimous that there are 5 prayers prayed at 3 times.

I know. There are Sunni ahaadith about that as well.

What is interresting to me is the emphasis on three times in Sunni and Shia traditions.

I believe this is an ancient Islamic rule that was known in the past as well:

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

Daniel 6:10
 

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    • There are many good people in this world, i have suffered same what you have. Its not a big deal i think most of the people have gone through this. you need to try to ignore this stuff and continue doing gud.  There is a saying of imam ali a.s "The best revenge is to improve yourself", there are many other sayings by imam ali a.s you can google them, this will inspire you to do gud to others. Our ahlulbaith a.s has always done gud to everyone and never cared about others. YA Ali madad.
    • If sense perception is combined with either reasoning or intellectual intuition (which you can think of as the fitrah for now) then yes it can lead to such realizations. But sense perception alone - devoid of these higher faculties, is the definition of dunyawi. It is the level at which the mushrikeen see reality, so obviously it is not sufficient to bring belief. Belief requires sense perception along with thought and/or the awakening of the higher intellect.
    • I Know, and I agree mostly with your sentiments. I also agree that a muslimah should not think like that with regards to a proper husband. Also I am single and not married yet. So I cannot give advice in that department. But I like to think I am fairly observant of social phenomena. And Also I think that a way that a muslimah can help prevent getting married to a guy like that is by not having shallow standards of a marital partner. I remember in this one podcast a muslim psychologist said that the minimum time a guy and girl should court each other is 6 months. And that during those six months it is important to find out as much as you can about the guy or girl. And to above all else not rush into a marriage. And that part of finding out all details of the potential partner is by asking the right questions. And these questions should be defined by either muslim marital counselors, or by couples who truly have a good relationship.   And my own input is that if we are going to be honest most of our parents had terrible marital relationships, and thus as our generation grows up we (both genders) develop shallow and unrealistic spousal expectations. And when we carry these into our marriages, the marriage becomes like a bag of popcorn. It is really good for a while to a brief time, but once the "pop" happens is when the marital bubble bursts and now the main issue becomes cohabitation instead of trying to enact some Fabio novella with your spouse.    I think what any muslim woman here can admit is that for every women who had a bad first marital partner there were "signs" of him being not so great even before the marriage. But naivety can sometimes blind muslim women in not being attentive of these things. And even if these signs were not present before the marriage, a thorough vetting process and prolonging courtship can help to sort these things out before the marriage, if even a marriage should occur.   Anyone would be surprised that a thorough vetting process and asking the right questions during a prolonged courtship can filter out partners who could potentially do haram things like physical abuse, etc. Since for most men and women, they don't randomly start abusing or that men just go ape on their wives for no reason, but that trained behavioral health specialists or generally mentally acute people can tell of "signs" that certain men and women are more prone to do abuse if given the right situations depending on certain personal factors of an individual. Muslims need to start utilizing these resources better so as to filter out guys and even girls who do these things. 
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