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Tango

Faith...

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Question

What if

Someone were to be born a Muslim

Struggle with the idea of God

And ending up practicing all necessities of Islam but whilst not necessarily believing that what he is doing is real.

He came to this conclusion by thinkingIf there is no God, I can do whatever

But if there is a God and I do whatever then I will burn in hellfire.

So as a result I will use the blessing of being born a Muslim to my advantageAnd follow all requirements of being a Muslim (i.e fasting, Salah etc.)

However I'm not sure in the mind if God is even there.

Weird question I know. 

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Look around, 

Everything you see is a sign of God.

And yes keep practicing, try to learn. Read the words of the Ahlul bayt and Quran, you will find God.

notme likes this

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Brother, ask yourself, who brought us to this life, nothing comes from nothingness isn't that right. then what brought us here? The answer is clear, an ultimate being with no beginning or end, no limits and is stronger than anything with out measures, that being is called God.

Imam Ali (as) made it clear what we should worship Allah for, No not for the fear of hell, No not for the greed for heaven, He says : "I do not worship Allah for the fear of hell, that is the worshipper of a slave, I do not worship Allah for the greed for heaven that is the worship of a businessman, i worship Allah because he is worthy of being worshipped, that is the worship of a free man."

 

Ali al-Abdullah and notme like this

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In my idea, faith is believing in your heart and saying and actinig what you believe in your heart. For example, if believe in God you certainly perform and do what is adjusted to your believe and not else. 

faith in God is very good

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It is wajib in Islam to think about your beliefs, rationalize them, and then believe them with conviction of your own faith. It sounds circular but its not.

Ibadat done for 'just in case' are just a useless workouts in my opinion, you need to quit everything, all ibadat, take time off from your work and family, go to Amazon forests, spend time alone, find Allah in your life, and then come back to Islam. Hope this helps brother. All that meanwhile asking Allah swt to give you enough life to have you time to think about Him and believe in Him. You never know if you will even live in this timeof limbo, so to say.

Edited by Irfani313

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12 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

It is wajib in Islam to think about your beliefs, rationalize them, and then believe them with conviction of your own faith. It sounds circular but its not.

Ibadat done for 'just in case' are just a useless workouts in my opinion, you need to quit everything, all ibadat, take time off from your work and family, go to Amazon forests, spend time alone, find Allah in your life, and then come back to Islam. Hope this helps brother. All that meanwhile asking Allah swt to give you enough life to have you time to think about Him and believe in Him. You never know if you will even live in this timeof limbo, so to say.

I don't quite agree. If he is still a Muslim, even if it only be in name, the daily acts of worship are still wajib on him; sure, they may not merit a lot of reward in his case, but they are still an obligation. If he does one day return to truly believing in God, they will be a responsibility he will have to make up for. Also, while I understand that what you've said wasn't literal, one need not go to extreme measures to find God in their lives, to take a break from life, to live in solitude or removed from the world at large, to find the light of God. He is with us at all times, and, as such, with those who surround us, too, our friends and our families. One can find God in the in the breeze hitting his face and reject him in the face of a sea parting in front of his eyes.

Indeed, the Prophet himself clearly chided those who resorted to such methods and withdraw from their families and society. Even if he does find some God in his seclusion, it won't be the God of Islam, who so clearly denounces monasticism.

Irfani313 and sidnaq like this

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I'm sorry if I came out as being a hermit. What I meant is to first believe in God and then come out and worry about other things. You multiply million with zero, the end result is zero. If this brother doesn't believe in God with conviction, all else is useless. 

If someone is not sure of God, then they are out of the fold of Islam. This is the reason that we don't have any taqleed in Usul of the religion, meaning the concept of Tawheed, the naubwa, the Imamat has to be understood on its own with own rationale.

Once usul are there, then it makes sense to do furu whcih are actions and ibadaat.

Khadim uz Zahra likes this

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1 hour ago, Irfani313 said:

If someone is not sure of God, then they are out of the fold of Islam. This is the reason that we don't have any taqleed in Usul of the religion, meaning the concept of Tawheed, the naubwa, the Imamat has to be understood on its own with own rationale.

I don't believe that is entirely true. As long as someone says the kalimah, from a legal standpoint, they are Muslim and, as such, the responsibilities of a Muslim must apply. We have numerous examples of people who convert because, for example, they want to marry a Muslim without actual conviction or belief in Islam. These people are still considered Muslim and, therefore, they, too, must observe the obligations of Islam.

Overall, though, I do agree that worship without belief is meaningless and a simple formality. I do not doubt that; my only point is that choosing to not do his ibadat while still being a Muslim overtly means that he will need to do qadha if he does return to belief in God later on. Since the brother wants to do them anyways, it is better for him to continue, not just because it helps him not have to make up for them later but because, who knows, even his empty acts of worship might help him recognise his Lord, after all.

Irfani313 likes this

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Thank you everyone for your replies.

So this 'empty worship' won't count for me on the day of Judgement then? 

That's a bit depressing. I can't force myself to fully believe in God if I can't just yet. I am no atheist, still follow Islam but with a twist of just theism.

I think it's a bit unfair that even though I'm fulfilling my obligations (albeit not wholeheartedly) they don't count for anything.

So in short I HAVE to fully believe in God while following obligations or I might as well not be doing it (aside from the fact it may prevent be having to make them up if I stop)

Thanks again

 

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"Empty" worship does count for something! It's never completely empty, so long as you have any belief at all. It might be less beneficial to you than really heartfelt acts of worship, but going without is so much worse. 

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Well, no, it does count for something. Like I've said earlier, "...it is better for him to continue, not just because it helps him not have to make up for them later but because, who knows, even his empty acts of worship might help him recognise his Lord, after all." Indeed, even from your point of view, if you are unsure of His existence, if there is a God and you supplicate to him everyday, surely, He will one day guide you back to His Light. So, I would advise you to continue with your acts of ibadat, even if you may find them pointless for a time.

Moreover, if you still want to continue your worship, even as a precaution, then I wonder if it is as empty as you think since one who truly disbelieves in God would reject Him and find it pointless to worship a non-existent entity. Since you still cling to your worship, no matter how weakly, perhaps, this is a sign that you are not fully convinced of God's non-existence, that you have not fully left the fold of theism.

Edited by Khadim uz Zahra
notme likes this

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43 minutes ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Well, no, it does count for something. Like I've said earlier, "...it is better for him to continue, not just because it helps him not have to make up for them later but because, who knows, even his empty acts of worship might help him recognise his Lord, after all." Indeed, even from your point of view, if you are unsure of His existence, if there is a God and you supplicate to him everyday, surely, He will one day guide you back to His Light. So, I would advise you to continue with your acts of ibadat, even if you may find them pointless for a time.

Moreover, if you still want to continue your worship, even as a precaution, then I wonder if it is as empty as you think since one who truly disbelieves in God would reject Him and find it pointless to worship a non-existent entity. Since you still cling to your worship, no matter how weakly, perhaps, this is a sign that you are fully convinced of God's non-existence, that you have not fully left the fold of theism.

That is an encouraging thought :)

Btw I am not an athiest. I still believe God must exist through obvious reasons.The issue is with God being the God of Islam and all things related that I sometimes question. Hope that clears it up a bit

Edited by Tango
Clearing up
notme likes this

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Try to understand the words you say during prayers. Humble yourself and even try to cry(be it pretentious at first- it will come naturally afterwards) by thinking of the magesty of God and your lowliness and sins and reflect afterwards. It will soften your heart and would let wisdom in. 

 

 

Read the first two volumes of Al Kafi. It will help your belief and faith in God, the prophet (s) and the aimah (as).

 

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