Jump to content

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

The Sadrian argument may be summarised as follows:

  1. There is existence
  2. Existence is a perfection above which no perfection may be conceived
  3. God is perfection and perfection in existence
  4. Existence is a singular and simple reality; there is no metaphysical pluralism
  5. That singular reality is graded in intensity in a scale of perfection (that is, a denial of a pure monism).
  6. That scale must have a limit point, a point of greatest intensity and of greatest existence.
  7. Hence God exists (= existence).


    Can someone explain each of the premises or epxlain mulla sadr argument for god

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FreeSpirit said:

oh wow, awesome post.  im going on a course called proofs for the existence of god, ending with looking at mulla sadra's proof of the veracious. perhaps we can discuss after this. 

http://www.aimislam.com/event/course-proofs-for-the-existence-of-god/

Can you post a video recording

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Existence is not an entity and it is not even a predicate.

The whole argument is flawed.

BTW it's Mulla Sadra.

Shaheed al-Sadr's arguments are here: https://www.al-islam.org/revealer-messenger-message-sayyid-muhammad-baqir-al-sadr I am a proponent of his philosophical argument from that book. I have never seen anyone else present it. Allah has blessed him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Existence is not an entity and it is not even a predicate.

The whole argument is flawed.

BTW it's Mulla Sadra.

Shaheed al-Sadr's arguments are here: https://www.al-islam.org/revealer-messenger-message-sayyid-muhammad-baqir-al-sadr I am a proponent of his philosophical argument from that book. I have never seen anyone else present it. Allah has blessed him.

What's the Arabic title of the book?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There're several groups of people according to belief, no matter which belief.

Belief starts with thinking ('aql). To think we need senses to get informations needed for thinking, and we need to be sane.

(1) First froup of the people according to belief are those who're Majnoon, insane, mad, crazy people. Since, this word "majnoon" has same root as "jinn", "Jannat"... and it is connected with something hidden, I see its meaning as "one from whom reality is hidden". Maybe somebody who's better in Arabic can help.

(2) Second group are ones who're "gone astray", ad-Dallun. Their informations are false, so they can use their 'aql (think), but the result will always be false and they cannot believe.

If we're not in these two groups, we could be amongs those who're going to belief, or we can be in other two groups.

(3) Third group of the people according to belief are "kafiroon", those who reject, in this case they reject to think.

(4) Fourth group of the people are "kaziboon", those who're liars. They're finding reasons not to think. They won't tell that they're rejecting to think, they'll rather find some bogus reasons to justify themselves. These two groups are mostly joined, in case that somebody rejects to think, but they are not telling their reasons.

In any case, others are thinking about some topic. Here we can meet other group.

(5) Jahiloon is the next group of the people according to belief. They are not able to reach the next level to the belief. This can be due to their low level intelligence, not enough informations, some other beliefs which are blocking them, some of their bad habits or character, some external reasons...

If one is not jahil he'll reach the next level, which is knowledge ('ilm). This is the biggest cross-road, where we can meet a few groups.

(6) & (7) Some people will be Kafiroon and Kaziboon, but this time after getting close to the knowledge. If they reject to accept the knowledge they are amongs one or both of these groups.

(8) Munafiqoon are those people who're telling that they believe in the knowledge they're close to, but they don't believe. It's very important to understand that munafiq is one who has the knowledge in his ears, but not in his heart. He can talk about the knowledge almost same as possessors of the knowledge, but he's not accepting it.

(9) Believers are ones who are near the knowledge (or in it) and they accepted it. According to how they're using the knowledge, there can be several groups of believers. Since, believers are brothers, I'd rather skip talking about these groups. (notice that believing men and believing women are not brothers and sisters, only believers are brothers)

So, if we're talking about belief in God, Allah swt, we should understand that it's personal. No man can say to us: this is why Allah swt exists, and make believers of us. If we don't think about His signs (ayats) and His Names, and if we don't get close to the knowledge with His Help, we'll never believe in Him.

But there are glad tidings even for those who are not (yet) believers. If they submit to His Laws, He will accept all their good deeds, they can be "lucky ones".

Dua and salihat (good deeds) are good for cleaning heart, so it can accept the knowledge better, and to clean our senses, so we can receive better informations.

Mulla Sadr's argument is useless, if one is not accepting Allah's swt arguments. Think about His ayats and you'll, by His 'izn, see Him with you heart.

Allah's bless and salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/18/2016 at 0:59 AM, Qasim_Husayn said:

Can you post a video recording

Salam Qasim,

I think there will be a recording of this weekend's course, I will find out more on Saturday. If you live in London, perhaps you can make it, or request that they hold this course in a town near yourself.  I've actually been on the course before, but it went over my head so to speak, and there was not enough time to take everything in.  I will let you know how it goes, but if you can make that would be great. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Once again, lnternet usage, access, and ownership responsibilities are under review. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/backlash-building-over-plan-gut-net-neutrality-n823436  For the 200+ page Federal Communications document see: https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-347927A1.pdf  A lot of this revolves around "service providers". Question: can service providers deny access, say to SC ?    
    • Divorce » Khula' divorce or Talaqul Khula' 2537. The divorce of a wife who develops an aversion from husband and hates him, and surrenders to him her Mahr or some of her property so that he may divorce her, is called Khula' Divorce. The hatred must have reached a proportion where she would not allow him conjugal rights.

      2538. If the husband himself wishes to pronounce the formula of Khula' divorce and his wife's name is, say, Fatima, he should say after receiving the property: "Zawjati Fatimatu Khala'tuha 'ala ma bazalat" and should also say as a recommended precaution: "Hiya Taliq" i.e. "I have given Khula' divorce to my wife Fatima in lieu of what she has given me, and she is free'. And if the wife is identified, it is not necessary to mention her name in Talaqul Khula' and also in Mubarat Divorce.

      2539. If a woman appoints a person as her representative to surrender her Mahr to her husband, and the husband, too, appoints the same person as his representative to divorce his wife, and if, for instance, the name of the husband is Muhammad and the name of the wife is Fatima, the representative will pronounce the formula of divorce thus: "An muwakkilati Fatimah bazalat mahraha li muwakkili Muhammad li Yakhla'aha 'alayh". Then he says immediately: "Zawjatu muwakkili khala'tuha 'ala ma bazalat hiya Taliq".
      And if a woman appoints a person as her representative to give something other than Mahr to her husband, so that he may divorce her, the representative should utter the name of that thing instead of the word "Mahraha" (her Mahr). For example, if the woman gives $500 he should say: bazalat khamsa mi'ati Dollar".   https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2361/
    • http://www.muslimpro.com/?date=&convention=Jafari&asrjuristic=Standard you can select other method of calculation based on your region & school of thought http://www.azangoo.com/DefaultLang.aspx its based on Jafari school of thought. for both of them you can find their apps on googleplay & appstore
    • https://www.waterstones.com/book/islamic-belief-system/mohammad-ali-shomali/9781904934233 the book is available on waterstones site but as i see the other site out of a copy   https://www.al-islam.org/media/islamic-belief-system-session-1 on this site is availabe as videos
×