Jump to content
Qasim_Husayn

How to prove ismaili belief is false

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

I didn't say it made sense. Certainly not to me. I don't know half the groups he's talking about, but I don't think he meant it as a joke. Matter of fact, nothing he ever said was a joke. He was a troubled Deobandi because he didn't hate anybody as much as he was supposed to. Somebody with attitude finally made him pop and he got banned. 

:salam:

It seems he was not so peaceful then :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2016 at 7:15 PM, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Five daily prayers are Zoroastrian and not in the Qur'an, they have similar praying posture too 

It's because of the Ottomans too and Persians.

 

Some Christians and jews have similar praying as well. Matter of a fact, rukuh came from Maryam bint Imran, according to Quran.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/12/2016 at 2:35 PM, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Five daily prayers is 100% Islamic. Don't listen to that guy. He has no  proof. Also Ismailism is a dead sect, How can Ismail be the Imam when he died before Imam Ja´far as-Sadiq (as)?!

Actually there is no five daily prayers in the Qur'an nor Islam. This is because of Ottoman Empire. and Seljuk Empire. 

Alevis are from Imam Musai Kazi,, Caferi Sadik and Imam Riza, but ismailis chose ismaili as their successor

 

Edited by AleviTurkmenKhorasan
word

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Actually there is no five daily prayers in the Qur'an nor Islam. This is because of Ottoman Empire. and Seljuk Empire. 

Alevis are from Imam Musai Kazi,, Caferi Sadik and Imam Riza, but ismailis chose ismaili as their successor

 

Salaam alaikum,

I definitely agree on the first point about the 5 daily prayers; the Holy Qur'an only says that we have to pray, but it doesn't go further into the forms of the prayer.  All the fiqh-based arguments about arms up or down; those are all minutiae.  Obviously jurisprudence matters, but I've come to see a lot of what we know as the dominant tone in Islam as being hyper focused on jurisprudence.  It's like we aspire to be pious law clerks.  I don't know if my thinking makes any sense.  I need to ask- where might I find non biased material about the Alevi school?  I want to learn as much about Islam as I can, and sadly, I am not as well educated as I need to be about this Deen and my brothers and sisters who follow it, whatever school they may follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, reisiger said:

Salaam alaikum,

I definitely agree on the first point about the 5 daily prayers; the Holy Qur'an only says that we have to pray, but it doesn't go further into the forms of the prayer.  All the fiqh-based arguments about arms up or down; those are all minutiae.  Obviously jurisprudence matters, but I've come to see a lot of what we know as the dominant tone in Islam as being hyper focused on jurisprudence.  It's like we aspire to be pious law clerks.  I don't know if my thinking makes any sense.  I need to ask- where might I find non biased material about the Alevi school?  I want to learn as much about Islam as I can, and sadly, I am not as well educated as I need to be about this Deen and my brothers and sisters who follow it, whatever school they may follow.

As-salamu alaykum brother, hmm its difficult as Alevis don't really have the budget to translate etc state does not recognise nor supports Alevis, all books have been burned during ottoman period. 

Which is why we have "deyis" to not forget the truth and carry it along. 

Anyways best to avoid alevi german federations, and they don't believe in Allah nor Hz Ali or Hz Muhammed.

Look for "dede" seyyid people whom teach or Haci Bektas veli and Ahmet Yesevi, btw Naksibende is not Ahmet Yesevi nor Yesevilik 

An Analysis of ALEVI communities position in Turkey.

http://www.cemvakfi.org.tr/dogan-bermek/alevilik-ingilizce/

here is a little more info

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5735/

 

 

Edited by AleviTurkmenKhorasan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

As-salamu alaykum brother, hmm its difficult as Alevis don't really have the budget to translate etc state does not recognise nor supports Alevis, all books have been burned during ottoman period. 

Which is why we have "deyis" to not forget the truth and carry it along. 

Anyways best to avoid alevi german federations, and they don't believe in Allah nor Hz Ali or Hz Muhammed.

Look for "dede" seyyid people whom teach or Haci Bektas veli and Ahmet Yesevi, btw Naksibende is not Ahmet Yesevi nor Yesevilik 

An Analysis of ALEVI communities position in Turkey.

http://www.cemvakfi.org.tr/dogan-bermek/alevilik-ingilizce/

here is a little more info

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5735/

 

 

Jazaak Allah Khair, brother!  I will definitely look into it more deeply. One thing that I've always hated is accusations of bidah or kufr, etc.. I will definitely look further into it. It's a sad thing that the state doesn't help, especially since their predecessors burnt the books.  Sounds very much like a Pir or a da'i - someone to remember and to teach.

It's always when the Imams are ignored and the kings come into power that it all goes down hill. :/

thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, reisiger said:

Salaam alaikum,

I definitely agree on the first point about the 5 daily prayers; the Holy Qur'an only says that we have to pray, but it doesn't go further into the forms of the prayer.  All the fiqh-based arguments about arms up or down; those are all minutiae.  Obviously jurisprudence matters, but I've come to see a lot of what we know as the dominant tone in Islam as being hyper focused on jurisprudence.  It's like we aspire to be pious law clerks.  I don't know if my thinking makes any sense.  I need to ask- where might I find non biased material about the Alevi school?  I want to learn as much about Islam as I can, and sadly, I am not as well educated as I need to be about this Deen and my brothers and sisters who follow it, whatever school they may follow.

Yes, five daily prayers is definitely Islamic. You can be a non muslim alevi kafir, but don't try to lie about Islam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Yes, five daily prayers is definitely Islamic. You can be a non muslim alevi kafir, but don't try to lie about Islam.

Salaam alaikum,

Please educate me then.  I never said they weren't Islamic, but I did say that that the Qur'an does not go further than the commandment to establish and keep up the prayers.  It does not specify 5x a day and it does not specify the form of the prayers.  That is from the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (SAWAS)

I am a Muslim; I follow the Ja'fari school, so I do believe in 5 prayers per day, but I also know that it does not explicitly spell it out as we know it today.

I am not lying about Islam, If I am in error, then teach me. But I will ask you to remember the manner in which RasulAllah (SAWAS) taught others and dealt with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, reisiger said:

Salaam alaikum,

Please educate me then.  I never said they weren't Islamic, but I did say that that the Qur'an does not go further than the commandment to establish and keep up the prayers.  It does not specify 5x a day and it does not specify the form of the prayers.  That is from the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (SAWAS)

I am a Muslim; I follow the Ja'fari school, so I do believe in 5 prayers per day, but I also know that it does not explicitly spell it out as we know it today.

I am not lying about Islam, If I am in error, then teach me. But I will ask you to remember the manner in which RasulAllah (SAWAS) taught others and dealt with them.

Then why are you saying things like  that? don't let this Sufi alevi fool you, you  are a follower of the best school in  Islam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Then why are you saying things like  that? don't let this Sufi alevi fool you, you  are a follower of the best school in  Islam.

I am, and that's why I keep an open mind in dealing with others.  Wasn't a gentle word and a willingness to listen and not cast judgment the manner of RasulAllah (SAWAS) and the Imams (AS) that followed him?  I'm reminded of a story about Amir al Mu'minin (AS) where he and a companion passed by a church and the companion wondered how much shirk happened there, and the Imam (AS) asked him how many times Allah (SWT) was praised there.

Allah (SWT) doesn't need me to judge others.  He's quite equipped to handle that perfectly.  We all have our day of Judgment to face, and Allah (SWT) will judge between us on where we differed.

@AleviTurkmenKhorasan is either my brother in faith or my equal in humanity, and so I will act accordingly.  I prefer to listen more than to speak.  And that's no judgment on anyone.  I believe you're sincerely encouraging the good and forbidding the evil, and I thank you for that.  I'm not looking to change my beliefs, but I believe it is important to understand the perspective of others.  Truth is clear from error, but as I am the least in knowledge among you, I need to learn as much as I can while I can. :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alevî mystic Hacı bektaş veli:

Seek and find.

To search / investigate is an open exam.

A path without knowledge will end in darkness.

Be in control of your hands (actions), tongue (speech), and loins (desires).

Whatever you do, do it for the Truth.

There exists in you a “there is” to replace every “there isn't.”

He who walks the Path never tires.

There is no rank or station higher than the Friend's heart.

The one who is wise but doesn't share his wisdom is ignorant.

To the ignorant, abandoning what is no longer needed is death; to the wise it is birth.

There is no repentance of repentance.

Let your heart, your hand, and your table be open to others.

Look for the key to all within your deepest being.

Whatever you seek, look within.

Do not forget your enemy is also a human being.

The beauty of human beings is the beauty of their words.

If the path appears dark, know that the veil is in your own eyes.

All blessings upon the one who overlooks another's shortcomings.

All blessings upon the one who makes a secret of secrets.

The Word (Quran) is Truth.

Do not hurt others, even if you are hurt.

Hand-in-hand, hand in Truth.

One hour of meditation is better than seventy years of piety.

The greatest book to read is the human being.

Be connected to your religion with your heart, not with your knees.

Educate your women, a nation that doesn't educate its women cannot progress.[33]

Prophets and saints are a gift from God to mankind.

Our path is based on the akhlaq of Muhammad and the adab of Ali.

The basis of Islam is akhlaq, the basis of akhlaq is knowledge, the basis of knowledge is intellect.

Whatever the language, religion or color of one might be, a good human being is a good human being.

A man who wastes his time while his heart is full of love for God, is better than a man who reads the Qur'an day and night while his heart is filled with the desire of this world.

For those who have Awareness, a hint is quite enough. For the multitudes of heedless, mere knowledge is useless.

The Quran is a letter from the Loving One to the beloved.

O dervish, know that the Quran is the Word of God, and a book that is revealed to the Prophet to appoint him as a messenger to mankind.[34]

A dervish should spend all his time with Allah, all his breath should be spent telling about Allah.

Doing good in return for evil is essence of being human.

Never desire fame, fame is disaster.

He who cannot clean himself cannot clean others.

First door of those with knowledge is decency.

Haqq (Allah) is more visible than the sun.[35]

Honesty is the door of a friend.

Being a teacher is to give, not to take.

The universe is for man, and man for the universe.

Science illuminates the paths of truth.

We travel in the way of science/knowledge, comprehension and human love.

Let’s be one, be big and energetic.

In the language of friendly conversation, you can’t discriminate between man and woman.

Everything God has created is in order.

There is no need to discriminate between religions. Religions cause disputes among people. In fact, all religions aim to provide peace and brotherhood on earth

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Then why are you saying things like  that? don't let this Sufi alevi fool you, you  are a follower of the best school in  Islam.

Brother please show me five daily prayers in the Quran.

You can't it's not there, it came after Seljuk and Ottoman empire, They enforced their beliefs etc via Zoroastrian 

Made hadiths , fatwa's etc 

 

Did you know the founder of hanefi sunni was Persian?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Brother please show me five daily prayers in the Quran.

You can't it's not there, it came after Seljuk and Ottoman empire, They enforced their beliefs etc via Zoroastrian 

Made hadiths , fatwa's etc 

 

Did you know the founder of hanefi sunni was Persian?

It's curious that you mentioned this- I just read an article or an essay very recently that made exactly that point about Abu Hanifa. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/8/2016 at 6:56 PM, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Brother please show me five daily prayers in the Quran.

You can't it's not there, it came after Seljuk and Ottoman empire, They enforced their beliefs etc via Zoroastrian 

Made hadiths , fatwa's etc 

 

Did you know the founder of hanefi sunni was Persian?

Every religion has been influenced by previous religions. Many religions saw the good of past religions and decided to use the traditions. Many saw the bad in previous religions and dropped certain traditions. If you are talking about the oldest religion on earth, there's a good chance you will see similarities.

To add confusion to the mix, some traditions overlay past pagan traditions, not because it stemmed from whatever preceded, but to mask it, cover it, get the people to forget past paganism. 

Getting people to pray 5 times a day is not a bad thing. It may have come from an earlier religious practice, but obviously not a bad one. Of course each religion has to make it unique, possibly to the point you cannot identify the original tradition, (without major research), but if it teaches proper morals and principle, what's the problem?

There doesn't seem to be any financial advantage to the leaders by their people praying 5 times a day, As I understand it, some prayers are in congregation, and others are in private.

In Christianity, you will see many public prayers, they also have prayer meetings, but are told explicitly, besides all that, pray in private...daily. Nobody said 5 times a day and these are the times...That would confuse Christians.

Everything I see about Ismaili starts with, "they chose the wrong leader"

I guess this is the difference. In Christianity, it's not about who replaced Jesus as leader, and who should have, nor which disciple did you follow? From what little we have from the disciples chosen to be in the Bible, it all aims in one direction, and that's back to the teaching of Christ. Of course, different groups interpret in different ways, but not on key points, and have somewhat settled into living with each other..

I see the same few differences in Islam, but there's no way blowing each other up over differences is Quranic. It's not Biblical either. 

Bible says "Judge not, that ye be not judged."  It applies to life on earth, (not judgement day), kharma, if you will. It removes the use of slanderous words, (Bâtın’îyye) to describe others.

Exo and eso are so close and so far it's just too general to use as a description. Does the Christian snake handler, (dances with snakes:confused:) who lives an otherwise righteous life according to all he knows, go to heaven when one of those snakes finally bites him?

When the Sufi whirlers finally come to rest and follow the teachings of Muhammad above all others, do they go to hell for being dizzy?

imho, all religions are false. Every time God sends someone to earth to tell us the truth, somebody grabs it and runs. Next thing you know, they have a whole new set of rules, some you follow because they are obvious to a person seeking religion, others to make sure you fit in the same corral, while they make monster churches with your tithe. Ignore the homeless on the way to the big front doors.

We have scriptures to read for ourselves. With prayer we seek enlightenment. My path is not your path until I find the perfect path and so do you...at the same time. Since we are looking for the same path, there's no use fighting over who thinks they found it, nor those who seem to be following, (alongside) the same path, designated by different leaders. If we can at least recognise those travelling in the same direction and join forces, where would this world be?

Or, maybe I say all this because I had a helper who was Ismaili, and I loved him dearly. We agreed on every decision based on the right reason for seven years running, it was incredible. The day the union forced him off our job he had a heart attack on his way home, with 3 people in his car, got them all home safely, then drove to hospital. Every fibre of that man is what God wants us all to be. If I manage Heaven, I know he'll already be there. There were many Ismailis in the shop, very few like him.

It's been a while since I mentioned, but I did a semi-Ramadan with a Muslim co-worker evening shift, so many years ago (28), We worked, we talked. His English was as bad as my French, his Arabic was fine. He invited me to come pray with him, (in the cab of a locomotive), had no idea what would happen. After prayers, (of totally different formats), I said, "do you feel that?" He said "Yes, it is the spirit of Allah come to be with us."  I don't know what language we spoke for a while, but we perfectly knew each other at that time. It was as awesome as it was sobering. Y'know, I don't know what form of Muslim he even was, but in that moment, religion didn't matter any more than language. If I said he was Shia, you would say Ahhh, he enlightened you. If I said he was anything but....crickets...lol.

Unless someone comes out and says, "This is how Ismailis worship the devil" I'm not convinced that one prophet took precedence over another, nor Imam over Imam means latest in the one and only truth ever told to mankind, and interpreted by the one and only ordained to understand the only told truth, while all others...past present, and future will never know (our secret to perfection...), and will die in hell because they did not recognize our religion...makes little sense in my books, nor are they worthy of premature death or slander.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 05/12/2016 at 11:45 AM, Hashasheen217 said:

Some Christians and jews have similar praying as well. Matter of a fact, rukuh came from Maryam bint Imran, according to Quran.

:salam:

In fact Allah ordered her to prostrate and bow with those who bow, that means the ruku` was already practice before sayida Maryam (as).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty much every mention of prostrate in the Bible is preceded by "fell"

To "fall prostrate" is best accomplished when you pass out. 

Kneeling and bowing was always there, but direction, and posture didn't come out until much later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 4:47 AM, Son of Placid said:

Every religion has been influenced by previous religions. Many religions saw the good of past religions and decided to use the traditions. Many saw the bad in previous religions and dropped certain traditions. If you are talking about the oldest religion on earth, there's a good chance you will see similarities.

To add confusion to the mix, some traditions overlay past pagan traditions, not because it stemmed from whatever preceded, but to mask it, cover it, get the people to forget past paganism. 

Getting people to pray 5 times a day is not a bad thing. It may have come from an earlier religious practice, but obviously not a bad one. Of course each religion has to make it unique, possibly to the point you cannot identify the original tradition, (without major research), but if it teaches proper morals and principle, what's the problem?

There doesn't seem to be any financial advantage to the leaders by their people praying 5 times a day, As I understand it, some prayers are in congregation, and others are in private.

In Christianity, you will see many public prayers, they also have prayer meetings, but are told explicitly, besides all that, pray in private...daily. Nobody said 5 times a day and these are the times...That would confuse Christians.

Everything I see about Ismaili starts with, "they chose the wrong leader"

I guess this is the difference. In Christianity, it's not about who replaced Jesus as leader, and who should have, nor which disciple did you follow? From what little we have from the disciples chosen to be in the Bible, it all aims in one direction, and that's back to the teaching of Christ. Of course, different groups interpret in different ways, but not on key points, and have somewhat settled into living with each other..

I see the same few differences in Islam, but there's no way blowing each other up over differences is Quranic. It's not Biblical either. 

Bible says "Judge not, that ye be not judged."  It applies to life on earth, (not judgement day), kharma, if you will. It removes the use of slanderous words, (Bâtın’îyye) to describe others.

Exo and eso are so close and so far it's just too general to use as a description. Does the Christian snake handler, (dances with snakes:confused:) who lives an otherwise righteous life according to all he knows, go to heaven when one of those snakes finally bites him?

When the Sufi whirlers finally come to rest and follow the teachings of Muhammad above all others, do they go to hell for being dizzy?

imho, all religions are false. Every time God sends someone to earth to tell us the truth, somebody grabs it and runs. Next thing you know, they have a whole new set of rules, some you follow because they are obvious to a person seeking religion, others to make sure you fit in the same corral, while they make monster churches with your tithe. Ignore the homeless on the way to the big front doors.

We have scriptures to read for ourselves. With prayer we seek enlightenment. My path is not your path until I find the perfect path and so do you...at the same time. Since we are looking for the same path, there's no use fighting over who thinks they found it, nor those who seem to be following, (alongside) the same path, designated by different leaders. If we can at least recognise those travelling in the same direction and join forces, where would this world be?

Or, maybe I say all this because I had a helper who was Ismaili, and I loved him dearly. We agreed on every decision based on the right reason for seven years running, it was incredible. The day the union forced him off our job he had a heart attack on his way home, with 3 people in his car, got them all home safely, then drove to hospital. Every fibre of that man is what God wants us all to be. If I manage Heaven, I know he'll already be there. There were many Ismailis in the shop, very few like him.

It's been a while since I mentioned, but I did a semi-Ramadan with a Muslim co-worker evening shift, so many years ago (28), We worked, we talked. His English was as bad as my French, his Arabic was fine. He invited me to come pray with him, (in the cab of a locomotive), had no idea what would happen. After prayers, (of totally different formats), I said, "do you feel that?" He said "Yes, it is the spirit of Allah come to be with us."  I don't know what language we spoke for a while, but we perfectly knew each other at that time. It was as awesome as it was sobering. Y'know, I don't know what form of Muslim he even was, but in that moment, religion didn't matter any more than language. If I said he was Shia, you would say Ahhh, he enlightened you. If I said he was anything but....crickets...lol.

Unless someone comes out and says, "This is how Ismailis worship the devil" I'm not convinced that one prophet took precedence over another, nor Imam over Imam means latest in the one and only truth ever told to mankind, and interpreted by the one and only ordained to understand the only told truth, while all others...past present, and future will never know (our secret to perfection...), and will die in hell because they did not recognize our religion...makes little sense in my books, nor are they worthy of premature death or slander.

This is just such a great post to read.  I wish I had more time today to offer a quality response, but this was so good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, reisiger said:

This is just such a great post to read.  I wish I had more time today to offer a quality response, but this was so good.

Thank you, you are most gracious.

Not everything is about scripture, interpretation, nor ongoing seminars on evangelical values, nor dead end debates based on misinformation. At some point your "religion" has to come out in the open. I don't always give sources for what I write. Hope it helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/7/2016 at 0:32 PM, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

Actually there is no five daily prayers in the Qur'an nor Islam. This is because of Ottoman Empire. and Seljuk Empire. 

Alevis are from Imam Musai Kazi,, Caferi Sadik and Imam Riza, but ismailis chose ismaili as their successor

 

OMG for god sake man. People have been praying 5 times a day before Ottoman empire. please give us reference when you talk to us. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Bismillahir Rahamanir Rahim….

I have been thinking of writing my journey from Ismaili to Islam for quite some time. Before I start writing anything about my journey towards Islam I want to make it clear to the readers that it is not my intellect that has led to accept the true message of Allah but it is the Kadr of Allah and his Rahma that He guided me to His true deen, otherwise I would have gone astray. As Allah mentions in the Holy Quran clearly

And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah , and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason. (Ch.10 V.100)
 
I have tried to confine this article with some bullet-ed points which I find it simpler to organize content of this article.

Imam Only Can Forgive Sins :

Ismailis believe that in order to seek forgiveness from Allah they need to ask forgiveness through Hazar Imam since he prepossess the noor of Allah. They ask for forgiveness after dua everyday in their daily prayers. Who can forgive our sins except Allah ? Please refer to this previous article here on this topic. Hazar Imam is not above Allah so it makes sense for me to worship directly to Him than through Hazar Imam.

On the day of Chandrat/Baitul khyal there are special tables arranged for taking mehmanis for muskil asani and for ease of deceased souls. Mushkil asani dua is 6$ per person. This was the rate in 2007 in Phonix Arizona Jamatkhana and I was the one who payed 12 $ for Muskhil Asani for my alive Parents. I still laugh at this incident when I recall it sometimes that I was seeking Mushkil asani from a man who himself has to go to court to settle his own issues.

Also please refer to below hadith where the prophet of Allah (PBUH) says to Ibn Abbas to seek help from Allah Alone.

Ibn Abbas RA said: One day, I was riding behind the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) when he said, “O boy! I will instruct you in some matters. Be watchful of Allah (Commandments of Allah), He will preserve you. Safeguard His Rights, He will be ever with you. If you beg, beg of Him Alone; and if you need assistance, supplicate to Allah Alone for help. And remember that if all the people gather to benefit you, they will not be able to benefit you except that which Allah had foreordained (for you); and if all of them gather to do harm to you, they will not be able to afflict you with anything other than that which Allah had pre-destined against you. The pens had been lifted and the ink had dried up.” (Tirmidhi)

Absense of Quran and Preachings of Prophet Mumhammad (SAW) in daily proceedings of Jamatkhana:

It is quite common if you ask any Ismaili that is there any preaching of Quran inside the Jamatkhanas….Surely the answer is No. And you may sometimes hear from some Ismailis that we don’t need to read the Quran, our Imam is Talking Quran (Boltu Quran). Astagfirllah. I myself have heard this sentence from an Ismaili.

It is well understood by those who were Ismailis one time and have read the Quran and through Allahs guidance they could easily distinguish between the preaching of Ismailism vs the Word of Allah Subhanwatala. The thing that surprised me most is that when the Hazar Imam even acknowledged in front of the entire world that Quran is the literal word of Allah and there can be no other place to take guidance other than Quran itself, but the Imam himself has failed to convey the same message to his followers.

Read my previous article on what Agakhan has said on Ismailis belief system. Click Here

IMG_247980200308804

May Allah guide each one of us to read his book and make connection with Him through five daily prayers and implement His book in our daily lives. Aameen. Ismaili are only allowed to read books which are approved by Ismaili Institutions and are sold in Jamatkhanas itself. All the books sold in Jamatkhanas or approved by Ismaili Institutions are Imamat centric and lack the true Preachings of Quran and Sunnah of Rasul SAW.

The Dashond Factor:

Islam says you have to pay 2.5 percent of Zakat to the poor and needy person. But Ismailis have a zakat which they call it dashond with an inflated rate of 12.5 percent which you only have to give it in the Jamatkhana. This dashond is collected and goes directly to the Hazar Imam. Imam is the sole owner of dashond. Ismailis have been paying dashond to Agakhan III and Agakhan IV since decades. I would rather give my zakat at the rate of 2.5 percent directly to the person who is poor and needy rather than a billionaire businessman who is self sufficient.

Reported by Abu Hurairah (RA): Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, “A dinar you spend in Allah’s way, or to free a slave, or as a charity you give to a needy person, or to support your family, the one yielding the greatest reward is that which you spend on your family.” (Muslim)

Righteousness is not (merely) that you turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteousness is that one believes in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the Prophets, and gives wealth, despite (his) love for it, to relatives, and to orphans, the helpless, the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and (spends) in (freeing) slaves and observes the Salah (prayers) and pays Zakah___and (the act of) those who fulfill their covenant when they enter into a covenant, and, of course,those who are patient in hardship and suffering and when in battle! Those are the ones who are truthful, and those are the God-fearing. (Quran Ch. 2-V.177)

Closed Door Policy:

Between 2004- 2006, I was in Kampala when there came an Ismaili doctor from Canada for an educational trip. Jamat was encouraged to listen to him after Jamatkhana proceedings. He was closely associated with Agakhanic Institutions and was also doctor by profession. Before starting the lecture he started the camera recording. The lecture was more of personal hygeine and emphasis by Hazar imam to educate his jamat about it. Since he was also able to answer jamats question on Ismailism he was asked questions related to Dasond and other practices, he immediately turned off the camera recording and started answering question. That moment led me question my belief on why this tariqa of Hazar imam is so scared to tell the public about their matters inside jamatkhanas. My doubt about Ismailism grew and the quest for Allahs deen grew even deeper.

Disconnect of Imam with the Jamat:

There have been only 2 possible forms of communication for the present Imam which I have known. Which are sending Talika (letter) to the Jamat or visiting the jamat once in a decade at least. I understand being an single Imam for few millions of Ismailis around the world, it is impossible for him to be present with every murid. But he is also considered as Hazar and Nazar Imam (Present and who listens). Really ?

The jamat will receive 3-4 talikas in a year mostly dealing with quality of life and education and importance of learning English in todays world. The jamat is in his thoughts and prayers, Thats it. What about Allahs book ? I have never heard a single aayah from Quran quoted in his farman nor any hadith.

Don’t question:

In Ismailism, the Jamati leaders are appointed based on their status in the society, who are well to do financially,who comes to jamatkhana regularly. That is the basis of selecting an Mukhi/Kamadiyas and other jamati leaders who is influential in society and who can handle the jamats issues. But Surprisingly you don’t have to have the ilm (knowledge) of the deen. That is not required at all.

I have seen and Met Mukhi Kamadiyas in couple of countries who are financially well to do but their behavior tells us those are far away from the teachings of Quran and Sunnah. Jamati Leaders running liquor shops and are sitting at the front row as the delegates of Imam to forgive jamats sins.

If you have doubts or questions related to tariqa, you are looked down with a strange look. What kind of Ismaili are you ? You are questioning the Imam ? and so on. You ask the question to the leaders but they will not be able to answer your questions, instead you will be humiliated because that is the best they can do to make you feel bad about it.

I had so many doubts to clear but I did not get a single answer. I was waiting for the Hazar and Nazar (Present and Listening) Imam who could answer my questions, but that did not happen at all.

Too Much emphasis on betterment of this life than the life here after.

Hazar Imam has done a marvelous job on improving the quality of life of the jamat through his continuous emphasis of worldly education. There is nothing wrong with it, but he has done a very little on educating the jamat about the life after death which is why we are here in this duniya. I have listened to many farmans from him regarding education and improving quality of life but have seldom heard in any farman to focus on the hereafter as well.

And the worldly life is not but amusement and diversion but the home of Hereafter is best for those who fear Allah. Will you not then reason? (Sahi Internatinoal Ch.6 V.32)

Hazar Imams Personal Life and Businesses :

What Hazar Imam had claimed to be follower of Quran has neither implemented anything for his Jamat from the Quran, neither he has taken heed for himself.

  • Liquor is haram in Islam, still there are hotels run by Agakhans name sells liquor in it.

Click here to get the proof that hotels run under Agakhans name are selling alcohol.

serena

  • Agakhan’s son Rahim has has gone far beyond and continued the legacy of his grand father and has married to American Fashion Model Kendra Spears.
  • Prince Husain divorsed his wife weeks after the marriage of his brother Rahim.
  • Agakhan’s wife herself filed a divorce case and grabbed 50 million Euros in divorce settlement. (Reason for divorce : Affair with an air hostess.)

The Imam is unable to teach Islamic values to his family, then forget about teaching Islamic values to Ismailis.

  • next-next-527153159

Fashion Show in Jamatkhana in the name of Moderation:

This is one of the biggest problem in Ismailis Jamatkhanas now a days that while coming to Jamatkhana they come as they are attending a wedding party or something. There is no issue with wearing good clothing as Allah has given you so you should wear it but when you cross the limits then it becomes a problem. This has been a problem in every jamatkhana in the world especially with the youth. Women come in skirts and sleveless dresses and lead the dua and read farman in front of entire congregation. Wearing headscarf is a distant dream altogether. I have discussed this issue with few elderly Ismailis and they had the same concerns which I have mentioned here. According to them, Jamatkhana is a place of worship but today’s women come in such a way that  you just wonder “Are they really focusing on prayer wearing such dresses?

May Allah have mercy on the Ummah of Islam. May Allah guide and unite all the brothers and sisters who are gone astray from the straight path of Islam. Ameen.May Allah guide me first and us all to the Straight Path of Islam.Whatever written of truth and benefit is only due to Allah’s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the only Source of Strength

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

OMG for god sake man. People have been praying 5 times a day before Ottoman empire. please give us reference when you talk to us. 

İts in Turkish brother,  but again no mention of five times a day, prior to Ottoman there was Seljuklu empire , whom enforced the Zoroastrian beliefs over the Arab world.

Stop questioning people on how they wear and control yourself first and stop gender separation 

There is also no mosque nor ezan during Hz Muhammed time but Cagri Allah hi Akbar 

Alevî mystic Hacı bektaş veli:

Seek and find.

To search / investigate is an open exam.

A path without knowledge will end in darkness.

Be in control of your hands (actions), tongue (speech), and loins (desires).

Whatever you do, do it for the Truth.

There exists in you a “there is” to replace every “there isn't.”

He who walks the Path never tires.

There is no rank or station higher than the Friend's heart.

The one who is wise but doesn't share his wisdom is ignorant.

To the ignorant, abandoning what is no longer needed is death; to the wise it is birth.

There is no repentance of repentance.

Let your heart, your hand, and your table be open to others.

Look for the key to all within your deepest being.

Whatever you seek, look within.

Do not forget your enemy is also a human being.

The beauty of human beings is the beauty of their words.

If the path appears dark, know that the veil is in your own eyes.

All blessings upon the one who overlooks another's shortcomings.

All blessings upon the one who makes a secret of secrets.

The Word (Quran) is Truth.

Do not hurt others, even if you are hurt.

Hand-in-hand, hand in Truth.

One hour of meditation is better than seventy years of piety.

The greatest book to read is the human being.

Be connected to your religion with your heart, not with your knees.

Educate your women, a nation that doesn't educate its women cannot progress.[33]

Prophets and saints are a gift from God to mankind.

Our path is based on the akhlaq of Muhammad and the adab of Ali.

The basis of Islam is akhlaq, the basis of akhlaq is knowledge, the basis of knowledge is intellect.

Whatever the language, religion or color of one might be, a good human being is a good human being.

A man who wastes his time while his heart is full of love for God, is better than a man who reads the Qur'an day and night while his heart is filled with the desire of this world.

For those who have Awareness, a hint is quite enough. For the multitudes of heedless, mere knowledge is useless.

The Quran is a letter from the Loving One to the beloved.

O dervish, know that the Quran is the Word of God, and a book that is revealed to the Prophet to appoint him as a messenger to mankind.[34]

A dervish should spend all his time with Allah, all his breath should be spent telling about Allah.

Doing good in return for evil is essence of being human.

Never desire fame, fame is disaster.

He who cannot clean himself cannot clean others.

First door of those with knowledge is decency.

Haqq (Allah) is more visible than the sun.[35]

Honesty is the door of a friend.

Being a teacher is to give, not to take.

The universe is for man, and man for the universe.

Science illuminates the paths of truth.

We travel in the way of science/knowledge, comprehension and human love.

Let’s be one, be big and energetic.

In the language of friendly conversation, you can’t discriminate between man and woman.

Everything God has created is in order.

There is no need to discriminate between religions. Religions cause disputes among people. In fact, all religions aim to provide peace and brotherhood on earth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

İts in Turkish brother,  but again no mention of five times a day, prior to Ottoman there was Seljuklu empire , whom enforced the Zoroastrian beliefs over the Arab world.

Stop questioning people on how they wear and control yourself first and stop gender separation 

There is also no mosque nor ezan during Hz Muhammed time but Cagri Allah hi Akbar 

Alevî mystic Hacı bektaş veli:

Seek and find.

To search / investigate is an open exam.

A path without knowledge will end in darkness.

Be in control of your hands (actions), tongue (speech), and loins (desires).

Whatever you do, do it for the Truth.

There exists in you a “there is” to replace every “there isn't.”

He who walks the Path never tires.

There is no rank or station higher than the Friend's heart.

The one who is wise but doesn't share his wisdom is ignorant.

To the ignorant, abandoning what is no longer needed is death; to the wise it is birth.

There is no repentance of repentance.

Let your heart, your hand, and your table be open to others.

Look for the key to all within your deepest being.

Whatever you seek, look within.

Do not forget your enemy is also a human being.

The beauty of human beings is the beauty of their words.

If the path appears dark, know that the veil is in your own eyes.

All blessings upon the one who overlooks another's shortcomings.

All blessings upon the one who makes a secret of secrets.

The Word (Quran) is Truth.

Do not hurt others, even if you are hurt.

Hand-in-hand, hand in Truth.

One hour of meditation is better than seventy years of piety.

The greatest book to read is the human being.

Be connected to your religion with your heart, not with your knees.

Educate your women, a nation that doesn't educate its women cannot progress.[33]

Prophets and saints are a gift from God to mankind.

Our path is based on the akhlaq of Muhammad and the adab of Ali.

The basis of Islam is akhlaq, the basis of akhlaq is knowledge, the basis of knowledge is intellect.

Whatever the language, religion or color of one might be, a good human being is a good human being.

A man who wastes his time while his heart is full of love for God, is better than a man who reads the Qur'an day and night while his heart is filled with the desire of this world.

For those who have Awareness, a hint is quite enough. For the multitudes of heedless, mere knowledge is useless.

The Quran is a letter from the Loving One to the beloved.

O dervish, know that the Quran is the Word of God, and a book that is revealed to the Prophet to appoint him as a messenger to mankind.[34]

A dervish should spend all his time with Allah, all his breath should be spent telling about Allah.

Doing good in return for evil is essence of being human.

Never desire fame, fame is disaster.

He who cannot clean himself cannot clean others.

First door of those with knowledge is decency.

Haqq (Allah) is more visible than the sun.[35]

Honesty is the door of a friend.

Being a teacher is to give, not to take.

The universe is for man, and man for the universe.

Science illuminates the paths of truth.

We travel in the way of science/knowledge, comprehension and human love.

Let’s be one, be big and energetic.

In the language of friendly conversation, you can’t discriminate between man and woman.

Everything God has created is in order.

There is no need to discriminate between religions. Religions cause disputes among people. In fact, all religions aim to provide peace and brotherhood on earth

Tu just prove that you're talking non sense i quote 

Quote

We read in Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 10, Number 537, Chapter Times of the Prayers:

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed in Medina seven (rak’ahs) and eight (rak’ahs), i. e. (combined) the noon (Zuhr) and afternoon (`Asr) prayers (eight rak’ahs) and the dusk (Maghrib) and night (‘Isha’) prayers (seven rak’ahs).

Here you could see 4 prayers its a hadith on combining prayers but to just prove that you don't make any sense i am quoting adn if you include fajar that makes it 5 prayers. Its a basic of islam (one of the five pillars).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • @hasanhh and anyone else who would enjoy a light comedy war film. This one has its moments. Its also thought provoking and asks a big question about the purpose (or the absence of it) behind the US occupation of Afghanistan.
    • KSA wants to try and make a dent before their abominable presence leaves the stage of history forever. However it is ridiculous to think Saudis will be fighting a war with anyone alone while they can't even bomb Yemeni babies on their own. Same goes for Israheil. So naturally they will bring their uncle Frankenstein Sam to help them out with the heavy lifting as usual. However due to important strategic reasons they will be go for Lebanon and Syrian territory first. This is why Netanyuhu and King Salamander have been grovelling at Putin's feet through 2017. If I was Putin I would pull a Danzig with them and take their monies then back stab them after having filled my defending allies with weapons. China will not be joining in. They are worse than Jews in seeking wealth. Of course the US senate will soon give the go ahead for their troops and fleet to deploy (since someone in the thread was innocently asking why one of their fleets stays in the region, this is it). This is also why they had Iran under sanctions since so many years, to weaken their preparations. This is also why they have created hell in Balochistan and other borders surrounding Iran. They think that will prove to be enough deterrence for paramilitary forces attempting to reinforce IRGC. Manpower. That stupid video someone linked before was right about one thing and that is the very significant advantage in manpower Iran has. Available manpower is directly proportional to motivation of the people. That is why Israhellis and Saudis and Yanks are bound to lose if the Shia manpower is mobilized who a lot of them will proceed to fight till the death while the axis of bankers has little motivation which will die out when the body bags start coming in. Israhellis used to literally die of fear when Saddam fired a few scuds into their cesspool. Saudis are too decadent and incompetent. Yanks are waking up to the truth and are also oppressed now and its not a false flag attacked year 2001 anymore. Those of them who will fight will have to fight each other being transsexual, pro-Trump, anti-feminist, white supremacist, pedophiles and all the throngs of tedious little issues plaguing them now. So with such a difference in Morale and perhaps a little bit Russian support as well, God willing above all else, things will change forever. At worst there will be a regime change in Iran which will not change anything because the biggest push of all pushes comes later under Mahdi (as) and Jesus (as) who are promised the manpower, hardware and the ultimate victory to bring the world about and set if free.
    • I know some eastern women put up with their husbands, even after being beaten and abused, as they are very dependant on them. I mean, some women go to the extent of obeying their husband soo much and this is just pure injustice! As for your question about a guy being rejected because he was Eastern - I feel it is a very personal choice as long as she doesn't think Eastern men are inferior to Western men. The choice could be associated with a lot of factors, like personality clash etc I personally would find it easier to get along with Western Muslim girls, because their way of thinking, interacting etc would be similar to mine. However, I'm okay with marrying an Eastern Muslim girl if I get along with her.    
    • You could have fed an entire family for a year with that money, instead of buying things that eventually go out of style and fall apart/get lost after a few years.
    • 10- I heard God’s Prophet (MGB) say, ‘O Ali! I have not been given anything in the Hereafter unless I asked for the like of it for you.’ 11- I heard God’s Prophet (MGB) say, ‘O Ali! You are my brother and I am your brother. Your hand is in my hand until you enter Paradise.’ 12- I heard God’s Prophet (MGB) say, ‘O Ali! Your similitude in my nation is like that of Noah’s Ark which whoever boarded was rescued, and anyone who did not was drowned.’ 13- God’s Prophet (MGB) fastened his blessed turban with his own blessed hands on my head. He also prayed for my victory over God’s enemies and thus I was able to defeat them with God’s Permission. 14- Once God’s Prophet (MGB) told me to touch the dried nipples of a calf so that it may give some milk. I told him (MGB), ‘O Prophet of God! It would be better if you do it.’ The Prophet (MGB) said, ‘O Ali! What you do is just like what I do.’ Then I touched its nipple and it gave some milk. I gave some milk to God’s Prophet (MGB). Then an old woman came and lamented from thirst. I gave her some milk to drink. God’s Prophet (MGB) said, ‘I asked the Blessed the Sublime God to bless your hand and he accepted my supplication.’ 15- God’s Prophet (MGB) made me his Trustee and told me, ‘O Ali! No one but you can perform the ablutions for the burial for me. No one but you can see my genitals. Should anyone else see them, their eyes will come out of their eye-sockets.’ I asked, ‘O Prophet of God! How can I turn you around by myself?’ The Prophet (MGB) replied, ‘You will be assisted by the invisible.’ I swear by God that whenever I wished to turn one part around (during the ablutions for the deceased), it turned around by itself. 16- When I wanted to undress the Prophet’s corpse to perform the ritual ablutions (wuzu) for the deceased for the Prophet (MGB), there came a voice which announced, ‘O Muhammad’s Trustee! Do not undress him. Perform the ritual ablutions (wuzu) with his clothes on.’ Thus, I performed the ritual ablutions (wuzu) for him from over his clothing. I swear to God who honored him with Prophethood that I did not see his private parts. Thus, God made me especial in this regard amongst the Prophet’s companions. 17- Even though Abu Bakr and Umar had asked for Fatimah (MGB) to be married to them, the Honorable the Exalted God married her to me from above the seventh heaven. God’s Prophet (MGB) said, ‘O Ali! May this blessing be pleasant for you. The Honorable the Exalted God has married Fatimah (MGB) who is the Master of Women in Paradise and of my own flesh and blood to you.’ Then I asked, ‘O Prophet of God! Am I not of your flesh and blood, too?’ The Prophet (MGB) replied, ‘O Ali! Yes you are from me and I am from you just like the right hand and the left hand. I am not independent of you in this world and the Hereafter.’ (To be continued.........)
×