Jump to content
Tango

Islam, Adam and Evolution

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

It's still not quite clear to me which view Islam holds on the origin of man. Was Adam created literally on the spot and a mate made for him in the same way? Or was it a process as some verses in the Qur'an suggest? I feel there are arguments for both to be found in the Qur'an. This website seems to hold a strong view that Islam agrees with evolution citing a number of verses in support of it.

http://www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/evolution-in-islam-overview.html

Although some interpretations are shaky, it does seem to have some sort of standing when looked at.

What are the opinions of those on ShiaChat? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Tango said:

It's still not quite clear to me which view Islam holds on the origin of man. Was Adam created literally on the spot and a mate made for him in the same way? Or was it a process as some verses in the Qur'an suggest? I feel there are arguments for both to be found in the Qur'an. This website seems to hold a strong view that Islam agrees with evolution citing a number of verses in support of it.

http://www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/evolution-in-islam-overview.html

Although some interpretations are shaky, it does seem to have some sort of standing when looked at.

What are the opinions of those on ShiaChat? 

Maybe I wont be giving Islams opinion here, but more of my own. There isn't a clear cut answer and Islam does support the idea of Evolution. The Quran hints at things but is not an encyclopedia so you could say its a maybe on both sides, we could have evolved from animals and Allah brought down the spirit of Adam when the human became fully developed, or he descended Adam physically down, no one actually knows. When asked I usually say until we find out further in science then we can go back to the Quran and see how what is written fits in to what we can find. People get confused when I say that like 'wow so you use science as a primary source?' and the answer is more or less a yes, Allah knows his creation and whats in the Quran is right but sometimes we misunderstand it, we observe and understand and see how it fits within the Quran. So for this point, since we are not sure I would go with animals evolved into humans, and once ready the spirit of adam was sent down (Whether there was divine intervention where Allah send adam down physically its not clear), until further research and proof can be done. Allah knows best

Edited by HayderM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, YAli said:

So what about the issue of Adam being made/molded from clay which the Quran states. how could that have happened if evolution took place? 

My hypothesis is clay/dirt is referring to the earth so to speak, it wouldn't be the first time something isnt taken literally, Allah does say somewhere not to ask to many questions in 'thorny' topics as it can dent iman, not trying to encourage ignorance but what I want to get at is you won't find a definitive answer as no one knows that knowledge we can merely make educated guesses , thats the closest i have been able to contemplate for an answer on this topic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: ‘I am going to create a human (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.  So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.” (Quran 38:71-72)

Sounding clay of altered black smooth mud, this seems like potters Clay, the ones that make a ringing sound when molded/wrapped/made. This seems far from an evolutionary description though 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Asking questions sincerely without arrogance is quite alright and this is definitely a subject worth exploring now as now unfortunately we are losing a lot of the young generation to atheistic beliefs.

Homo-Sapiens are believed to have existed since 150,000 years ago whereas according to all religious scriptures and dates Adam A.S is estimated to have been on the earth sometime between 5000-10,000 BC, so how do you reconcile the two facts? Fortunately in Shia Islam our Imams A.S have already told us this as I believe someone brought this up to Imam Muhammad Baqir A.S to which he responded "Allah SWT Had created 1000 thousand Adams (i.e 1000x1000)" and that before our species there were "Naf Nas" (human-like creatures) on the earth. Jaafar Ali Ladak in the UK had an amazing lecture about this topic which I will try and find again, but it's very worth listening to as he tries to answer all these questions. Basically the gist of it is that Adam A.S was definitely not born of a man/woman and created directly from clay as we are told but that when we say "Adam A.S is the first man", it does not necessarily mean that he was the first ever homo-sapien but rather the first man endowed with intelligence and law upon his shoulders, the Quranic verses he tries to justify this claim with are these:

76:1  There surely came over man a period of time when he was a thing not worth mentioning. 

17:70 And We have certainly honored the children of Adam and carried them on the land and sea and provided for them of the good things and preferred them over much of what We have created, with [definite] preference.

Now both these verses look contradictory don't they? UNLESS the first verse is referring to the people before Adam A.S 's creation and the second verse refers to the period after his creation. The beauty of this theory is that whether evolution took place or not, IN EITHER CASE it does not negate Allah, Islam or Adam A.S's creation 

  

Edited by Kirmani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, YAli said:

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: ‘I am going to create a human (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.  So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.” (Quran 38:71-72)

Sounding clay of altered black smooth mud, this seems like potters Clay, the ones that make a ringing sound when molded/wrapped/made. This seems far from an evolutionary description though 

Go forward in the same chapter brother, probably 75th verse will give you a more clear picture about creation of Adam:

He said: O Iblis! What prevented you that you should not obeisance to him whom I created with my two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?

The darwinian as well as latest forms of evolution, all speculates spontaneous generation of life on earth. You can understand now that's why evolution theory colides with every religion & the ultimate reality which is Creator, Allah the Supreme in knowlede & power.

Evolution is defined as process, we human beings are living systems. So technically, a process cannot originate or shape any system e.g., digestion is a process & it works within the digestive system. Does the process of digestion has originated or shaped the digestive system? Answer is a clear NO. Same principle applies to corculatory system which carry-out the circulation process, reproduction process require reproductory system etc.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every theory which speculates or tends to speculate the spontaneous generation of life is nothing but a big lie.

Allah has discussed the "change" in different places in Quran. Everywhere His will is mentioned as necessary for such change e.g chapte 76 verse 28 describes it in detail:

We created them and made firm their make, and when we PLEASE We will bring in their places, the likes of them by a CHANGE.

So divine will is necessary, which means every theory which either minus or speculate to minus Allah is against Islam.

Edited by Sajjad Zaidi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know what made the so called muslim scholors to accept such a big lie in the form of evolution theory which want us to believe that apes & humans share common ancestor.They speculate this on the basis of similarity in the DNA and structure of apes & humans.

They also speculate about the existence of universal common ancestor and spontaneous generation of life as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kirmani said:

Asking questions sincerely without arrogance is quite alright and this is definitely a subject worth exploring now as now unfortunately we are losing a lot of the young generation to atheistic beliefs.

Homo-Sapiens are believed to have existed since 150,000 years ago whereas according to all religious scriptures and dates Adam A.S is estimated to have been on the earth sometime between 5000-10,000 BC, so how do you reconcile the two facts? Fortunately in Shia Islam our Imams A.S have already told us this as I believe someone brought this up to Imam Muhammad Baqir A.S to which he responded "Allah SWT Had created 1000 thousand Adams (i.e 1000x1000)" and that before our species there were "Naf Nas" (human-like creatures) on the earth. Jaafar Ali Ladak in the UK had an amazing lecture about this topic which I will try and find again, but it's very worth listening to as he tries to answer all these questions. Basically the gist of it is that Adam A.S was definitely not born of a man/woman and created directly from clay as we are told but that when we say "Adam A.S is the first man", it does not necessarily mean that he was the first ever homo-sapien but rather the first man endowed with intelligence and law upon his shoulders, the Quranic verses he tries to justify this claim with are these:

76:1  There surely came over man a period of time when he was a thing not worth mentioning. 

17:70 And We have certainly honored the children of Adam and carried them on the land and sea and provided for them of the good things and preferred them over much of what We have created, with [definite] preference.

Now both these verses look contradictory don't they? UNLESS the first verse is referring to the people before Adam A.S 's creation and the second verse refers to the period after his creation. The beauty of this theory is that whether evolution took place or not, IN EITHER CASE it does not negate Allah, Islam or Adam A.S's creation 

  

Brother, who was the guide for those people? 

 وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ 

13:7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive, but I do think the way we argue for things depends on our experience. For instance, it seems, the previous respondents reject the theory of abiogenesis. It describes the formation of organic matter from the inorganic. I do think that this is how life came to be. More so after I learnt about mitochondrial eve. This doesn't refute the existence of a Supreme Being. For one, we are taught that God only needs to say "be" and it is. Laws govern everything, our universe creates and shapes on its own (by God's permission). This is why I also don't believe in miracles (i.e. so and so went to the shrine and his arm grew back, or their sight returned!). I believe that only with the presence of a prophet does God actually intervene, e.g. turning the walking stick into a snake. I am not presenting this as fact because I've forgotten which book/article I've read this from. But it stuck, because it makes sense for the world to be governed by laws through God's permission but without His intervention. But these ideas may be wrong, I'm still in the process of learning.

Back to evolution, I do think it is correct to say that we (our bodies) have undergone some form of change (i.e. evolved). We see many remnants of our "ancestors" in us (human vestigiality). There's also a great similarity between us and other species, including apes. That doesn't take away from our worth/importance and shouldn't offend you. We need to avoid sharing a trait with iblees- hyperinflated ego and arrogance. "I am better than Adam, for you have created me out of fire and Adam out of clay." Though a theory, it is pretty clear that our bodies have indeed undergone change. Whether this means we share ancestors with other/all organisms, or simply God allowing us to adapt to a continuously changing environment- we have evolved. 

In terms of adam, there are many threads of this on shiachat. One of which with a very similar title as your own =D 

Here are some I found: 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ali al-Abdullah said:

They want us to think we're monkeys.. no thanks

Brother, have a look on comments of brother Kirmani, how confidently these idiot scholors are playing with the verses of Quran. 

I dont accept any hadith as true which is coliding with the verses of Quraan. If there were 1000 Adams before Adam, which Adam's we belongs to? 

Secondly, muslim scholors relied on big bang model for explaining the evolution of universe. Now most scientist are rejecting the big bang model as they have created a new model which speculates that universe is eternal & there was no big bang.

Now will they twist more verses to accept this model?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1000 Adams?... i'm sorry but what?.. huh ... i don't even know what to say to that one

Also i have a question about evolution.... i have always wondered if they say we all came from apes, then why are there still apes? Apparently we all came from fish, why are there still fish? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have explained the same hadith in these words " whether you ask from me 1000 times, what was before Adam, my answer remains the same i.e., Adam."

This simply means there was a single Adam as mentioned in Quraan.

This understanding of Mola's quote, prevent it from coliding with the verses of Quraan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Brother, who was the guide for those people? 

 وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ 

13:7

Allah SWT Knows, maybe they didn't have one hence why the verse said they were "not worth mentioning" and maybe they did

17 minutes ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Brother, have a look on comments of brother Kirmani, how confidently these idiot scholors are playing with the verses of Quran. 

I dont accept any hadith as true which is coliding with the verses of Quraan. If there were 1000 Adams before Adam, which Adam's we belongs to? 

Secondly, muslim scholors relied on big bang model for explaining the evolution of universe. Now most scientist are rejecting the big bang model as they have created a new model which speculates that universe is eternal & there was no big bang.

Now will they twist more verses to accept this model?

How did that hadith collide with the verse of the Quran? Like I said it does not negate Adam A.S 's creation from clay one bit, it does not negate the fact that Adam A.S was made just from clay and from no father or mother and that we all do NOT come from apes, please read my ENTIRE post and understand what I am saying

The main point of my post was that (to silence the skeptics) that IF INDEED evolution did take place it does not contradict Quran, Islam or our main understanding of Adam A.S that he was created to no mother or father and was atleast the first man worth of law and understanding. I PERSONALLY dont think evolution ever took place as there is no documented evidence that one species ever completely changed into another species. But lets say we are wrong and other species or "naf-nas" did manage to evolve from other species, this has no effect on Islam because there is sufficient evidence in Quran and Islamic hadiths that allow for such theories if in fact they are true all the while maintaining that Adam A.S and Hawa S.A were created by Allah with no mother and father and that we are all descendants of them both.

 

Edited by Kirmani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kirmani said:

Allah SWT Knows, maybe they didn't have one hence why the verse said they were "not worth mentioning" and maybe they did

How did that hadith collide with the verse of the Quran? Like I said it does not negate Adam A.S 's creation from clay one bit, it does not negate the fact that Adam A.S was made just from clay and from no father or mother and that we all do NOT come from apes, please read my ENTIRE post and understand what I am saying

The main point of my post was that (to silence the skeptics) that IF INDEED evolution did take place it does not contradict Quran, Islam or our main understanding of Adam A.S that he was created to no mother or father and was atleast the first man worth of law and understanding. I PERSONALLY dont think evolution ever took place as their is no documented evidence that one species ever completely changed into another species. But lets say we are wrong and other species or "naf-nas" did manage to evolve from other species, this has no effect on Islam because there is sufficient evidence in Quran and Islamic hadiths that allow for such theories if in fact they are true all the while maintaining that Adam A.S and Hawa S.A were created by Allah with no mother and father and that we are all descendants of them both.

 

LOL, I have a long experience of dealing with athiests. My immune system has evolved enough resistance against evolution theory which i call "LUCA Syndrome", so it will not infect me in any case. I am holding Quran in my one hand and Love of Ahlul Bait (a.s) in other, this is my castle and i will remain safe here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so Kirmani according to what you are saying, from the 7+ billion humans on earth today some are from apes/fish etc, and others are the exalted descendant of Adam and Huwa As? (Since you say that both could have co-existed)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, YAli said:

so Kirmani according to what you are saying, from the 7+ billion humans on earth today some are from apes/fish etc, and others are the exalted descendant of Adam and Huwa As? (Since you say that both could have co-existed)  

no, I meant that the other "naf-nas" that existed before Adam A.S may have evolved from them and that the other species that are present in the world today may have evolved from them IF evolution is a real concept, every single homo-sapien / human that exists today descend directly from Adam A.S and Hawa S.A, please re-read all my posts and carefully understand what I am saying. 

As for the other 1000 thousand Adams hadith (meaning 1000x1000 i.e million) only Allah SWT and the Ahle Bayt A.S know truly what he meant, you have to understand that their knowledge is much greater than ours, maybe Imam Baqir A.S referred to the 1st animal of each species before Adam A.S or maybe there were that many civilizations of "naf nas" before ours, only Allah SWT Knows.

Edited by Kirmani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kirmani said:

no, I meant that the other "naf-nas" that existed before Adam A.S may have evolved from them and that the other species that are present in the world today may have evolved from them IF evolution is a real concept, every single homo-sapien / human that exists today descend directly from Adam A.S and Hawa S.A, please re-read all my posts and carefully understand what I am saying. 

Brother, where this naf-nas came from while you understood that existence of1000 Adams before Adam?

Were the older Adams imperfect or was there any nuqs (fault) in them? 

Edited by Sajjad Zaidi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Brother, where this naf-nas came from while you understood that existence of1000 Adams before Adam?

Were the older Adams imperfect or was there any nuqs (fault) in them? 

Do not know personally, just quoted the hadith, and it's not 1000 Adams before Adam, the hadith was 1000-Thousand Adams, i.e 1000 x 1000 = 1 million :grin:

I edited that post and added something more to it so I dont know if you got a chance to read it but this is what i posted after that

"As for the other 1000 thousand Adams hadith (meaning 1000x1000 i.e million) only Allah SWT and the Ahle Bayt A.S know truly what he meant, you have to understand that their knowledge is much greater than ours, maybe Imam Baqir A.S referred to the 1st animal of each species before Adam A.S or maybe there were that many civilizations of "naf nas" before ours, only Allah SWT Knows. "

Edited by Kirmani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Brother, have a look on comments of brother Kirmani, how confidently these idiot scholors are playing with the verses of Quran. 

I dont accept any hadith as true which is coliding with the verses of Quraan. If there were 1000 Adams before Adam, which Adam's we belongs to? 

Secondly, muslim scholors relied on big bang model for explaining the evolution of universe. Now most scientist are rejecting the big bang model as they have created a new model which speculates that universe is eternal & there was no big bang.

Now will they twist more verses to accept this model?

Yep.. I only accept what the Holy Quran states as truth, other than that no big bang if it contradicts the Word of Allah.

But brother, the hadith of Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as) can be interpreted in many ways and there is no clear explanation by himself (as). Also there are different narrations with differing words. 

 

For example, it could mean:

· There are many generations of humans (the one explanation given here)

· That there are other beings out there in the Universe currently that Allah (swt) has created.

· That there has been several "universes" or "worlds" / "realites" before us that Allah (swt) has created.

And probably other possibilities, these are just some I propose. Either way, if that is an authentic hadith of Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as), and he said it, it is definitely true, though we may not understand. Wa Allahu a‘lam.

Edited by Ali al-Abdullah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Yep.. I only accept what the Holy Quran states as truth, other than that no big bang if it contradicts the Word of Allah.

But brother, the hadith of Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as) can be interpreted in many ways and there is no clear explanation by himself (as). Also there are different narrations with differing words. 

 

For example, it could mean:

· There are many generations of humans (the one explanation given here)

· That there are other beings out there in the Universe currently that Allah (swt) has created.

· That there has been several "universes" or "worlds" / "realites" before us that Allah (swt) has created.

And probably other possibilities, these are just some I propose. Either way, if that is an authentic hadith of Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as), and he said it, it is definitely true, though we may not understand. Wa Allahu a‘lam.

Exactly, I totally forgot about that point, it could refer to civilizations in other worlds or planets, thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kirmani said:

Allah SWT Knows, maybe they didn't have one hence why the verse said they were "not worth mentioning" and maybe they did

How did that hadith collide with the verse of the Quran? Like I said it does not negate Adam A.S 's creation from clay one bit, it does not negate the fact that Adam A.S was made just from clay and from no father or mother and that we all do NOT come from apes, please read my ENTIRE post and understand what I am saying

The main point of my post was that (to silence the skeptics) that IF INDEED evolution did take place it does not contradict Quran, Islam or our main understanding of Adam A.S that he was created to no mother or father and was atleast the first man worth of law and understanding. I PERSONALLY dont think evolution ever took place as there is no documented evidence that one species ever completely changed into another species. But lets say we are wrong and other species or "naf-nas" did manage to evolve from other species, this has no effect on Islam because there is sufficient evidence in Quran and Islamic hadiths that allow for such theories if in fact they are true all the while maintaining that Adam A.S and Hawa S.A were created by Allah with no mother and father and that we are all descendants of them both.

 

See the verse 38:75

Enlighten us brother, Allah created which Adam from 1000 x 1000 Adams with His hands?

So that we can get the idea of iblis too.

If your answer is Allah knows best, then read the verse 53:28 which says that:

Surely conjecture does not avail against the truth at all.

Dont assume too much for what you dont have knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, yusur317 said:

I don't think creationism and evolution are mutually exclusive, but I do think the way we argue for things depends on our experience. For instance, it seems, the previous respondents reject the theory of abiogenesis. It describes the formation of organic matter from the inorganic. I do think that this is how life came to be. More so after I learnt about mitochondrial eve. This doesn't refute the existence of a Supreme Being. For one, we are taught that God only needs to say "be" and it is. Laws govern everything, our universe creates and shapes on its own (by God's permission). This is why I also don't believe in miracles (i.e. so and so went to the shrine and his arm grew back, or their sight returned!). I believe that only with the presence of a prophet does God actually intervene, e.g. turning the walking stick into a snake. I am not presenting this as fact because I've forgotten which book/article I've read this from. But it stuck, because it makes sense for the world to be governed by laws through God's permission but without His intervention. But these ideas may be wrong, I'm still in the process of learning.

Back to evolution, I do think it is correct to say that we (our bodies) have undergone some form of change (i.e. evolved). We see many remnants of our "ancestors" in us (human vestigiality). There's also a great similarity between us and other species, including apes. That doesn't take away from our worth/importance and shouldn't offend you. We need to avoid sharing a trait with iblees- hyperinflated ego and arrogance. "I am better than Adam, for you have created me out of fire and Adam out of clay." Though a theory, it is pretty clear that our bodies have indeed undergone change. Whether this means we share ancestors with other/all organisms, or simply God allowing us to adapt to a continuously changing environment- we have evolved. 

In terms of adam, there are many threads of this on shiachat. One of which with a very similar title as your own =D 

Here are some I found: 

 

 

Come on man, where's my plug?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, YAli said:

1000 Adams?... i'm sorry but what?.. huh ... i don't even know what to say to that one

Also i have a question about evolution.... i have always wondered if they say we all came from apes, then why are there still apes? Apparently we all came from fish, why are there still fish? 

Coming from a fish, doesn't mean we came from the fish we see. Just as coming from a more primitive being doesn't mean we came from a chimpanzee.

think of other great apes as distant cousins. We see them, we did not come from them, rather all of us, the apes, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, fish ect, came from ancient organisms. Just as you and your brother and me and all other people, came from our grandfathers and great grandfathers. 

If you go back far enough, we share a "common ancestor"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, yusur317 said:

Though a theory, it is pretty clear that our bodies have indeed undergone change. Whether this means we share ancestors with other/all organisms, or simply God allowing us to adapt to a continuously changing environment- we have evolved. 

Have you ever studied any scientific evidence for devolution? As per my knowledge, evolution is an irreversible process, it moves forward not backwards & tends to attain perfection in terms of complexity. I have never heard about any scientific clue of devolution which is opposite of evolution but Quran do tells us about devolution in couple of verses where humans were turned into monkeys & even pigs. Ask with any evolutionary biologist, they will deny this by saying evolution is not a reversible process, hence deny the devolution of tyrant human beings mentioned in the Quran. 

 The evolution which you study is understood as a blind & cruel process, there is no planned path of evolution. While on the other hand our understanding of creation by means of "system of Qadr" as mentioned in Quran, that is not a blind & process, everything gone through "Change" in accordance with the will, knowledge & plans of Supreme Being.

They (study of evolution & religion) cannot be compatible with each other, evolution leads humans to deny many facts and even leads humans to deny the existence of creator.

 

Edited by Sajjad Zaidi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Why not give away Afghanistan to Pakistan and just be done with it? Don't the majority of Afghans live in Pakistans tribal areas and cities anyways? There is more Afghans in Pakistan than there is in Afghanistan itself so yeah again whats the difference? Obviously India would not like this and would be upset but do they have a border with Afghanistan? Whats their agenda in this whole conflict?  Afghanistan is much more closer to Pakistan and Iran than India from my knowledge.   
    • Shukriya bro See maybe I have a chance to be a geek in a Washington think tank lol Btw Herat can go to Iran too it's traditionally Persian  This way hazara will be a neutral buffer state  But India might not like this as it makes Pakistan bigger  Punjabi and muhajir might not like a pashtun dominated Pakistan   
    • 3.87. Urwa b. Yahya al-Nakhkhas al-Dihqan https://sites.google.com/site/mujamalahadith/vol1/book-of-narrators/urwa-b-yahya-al-nakhkhas-al-dihqan   [-/1] رجال الكشي: حكى بعض الثقات بنيسابور أنه خرج لإسحاق بن اسماعيل من أبي محمد عليه السّلام توقيع: يا اسحاق بن اسماعيل سترنا اللّه و اياك بستره ... فإذا وردت بغداد فاقرأه على الدهقان وكيلنا و ثقتنا و الذي يقبض من موالينا ... [1/-] Rijal al-Kashshi: One of the trustworthy narrators in Naysabur reported that a Tawqi [signed rescript] came out addressed to Ishaq b. Ismail from Abi Muhammad عليه السلام saying: O Ishaq b. Ismail, may Allah protect both you and us with His protection … so when you reach Baghdad then read it [this Tawqi] to al-Dihqan, our Wakil [agent], our Thiqa [trustworthy one], and the one who collects from our followers [the dues] … NOTES: Urwa b. Yahya al-Nakhkhas (the slave merchant) was at one time a trusted Wakil of al-Askari in Baghdad as can be confirmed from the above. But he subsequently sold his religion for the petty price of the world and betrayed the Imam. al-Tusi says in his entry on him: عروة النخاس الدهقان، ملعون غال Urwa al-Nakhkhas al-Dihqan - an accursed Ghali al-Kashshi narrates the following reports which confirm his fall from favour: - حدثني محمد بن قولويه الجمال، عن محمد بن موسى الهمداني: أن عروة بن يحيى البغدادي المعروف بالدهقان لعنه الله و كان يكذب على أبي الحسن علي بن محمد بن الرضا عليهم السلام و على أبي محمد الحسن بن علي عليهما السلام بعده، و كان يقطع أمواله لنفسه دونه و يكذب عليه، حتى لعنه أبو محمد عليه السلام و أمر شيعته بلعنة، و الدعاء عليه لقطع الأموال، لعنه الله Muhammad b. Qulawayh the cameleer - Muhammad b. Musa al-Hamdani: Urwa b. Yahya al-Baghdadi, famously known as al-Dihqan - may Allah curse him, used to lie about Abi al-Hasan Ali b. Muhammad b. al-Ridha عليهم السلام and about Abi Muhammad al-Hasan b. Ali عليهما السلام after him. He used to keep a portion of his (the Imam’s) wealth (collected dues) for himself and lie about that. This led Abu Muhammad عليه السلام to curse him and to order his Shia to curse him and supplicate against him for withholding (and keeping to himself) the collected amount - may Allah curse him. قال علي بن سلمان بن رشيد العطار البغدادي كان يلعنه أبو محمد عليه السلام و ذلك أنه كانت لأبي محمد عليه السلام خزانة، و كان يليها أبو علي بن راشد رضي الله عنه، فسلمت إلى عروة، فأخذ منها لنفسه ثم أحرق باقي ما فيها، يغايظ بذلك أبا محمد عليه السلام فلعنه و بري‏ء منه و دعا عليه، فما أمهل يومه ذلك و ليلته حتى قبضه الله إلى النار، فقال عليه السلام: جلست لربي ليلتي هذه كذا و كذا جلسة فما انفجر عمود الصبح و لا انطفى ذلك النار حتى قتل الله عدوه لعنه الله Ali b. Sulayman b. Rashid al-Baghdadi the perfumer said: Abu Muhammad عليه السلام used to curse him. That was because Abi Muhammad عليه السلام had a saved-up amount (of collections) which used to be overseen by Abu Ali b. Rashid - may Allah be pleased with him. This was handed to Urwa (fell in his hands for safe-keeping), so he took from it for himself and then destroyed (burnt) the rest of it, seeking to anger Aba Muhammad عليه السلام thereby. Because of this he [the Imam] cursed him, disassociated from him, and supplicated against him. He [Urwa] was not given respite for even a single day or night before Allah seized him unto the fire. He عليه السلام said: I sat in vigil to my Lord this night of mine - such and such a seating (of worship i.e. describing it), so the light of day did not break nor did that fire (of lamp burnt at night) go out (extinguish) except that Allah had already killed his enemy - may Allah curse him. The following is also found in a letter sent by al-Askari about Ahmad b. Hilal: و قد علمتم ما كان من أمر الدهقان عليه لعنة الله و خدمته و طول صحبته، فأبدله الله بالإيمان كفرا حين فعل ما فعل، فعاجله الله بالنقمة ولم يمهله، و الحمد لله لا شريك له، و صلى الله على محمد و آله و سلم … and you have known what the status of al-Dihqan was - may Allah curse him, his service, and the long period of his companionship, but then Allah transformed his belief into disbelief, when he committed what he committed, so Allah hastened in retribution to him and did not grant him any respite. All praise is due to Allah who has no partner, and may Allah send blessings on Muhammad and his family. What this shows is that being a Wakil of the Imam does not mean that one is Thiqa forever and cannot change into a worse state. We ask Allah to secure us from having high stations but ending in disgrace.
    • They are stems off the same roots. Im quite sure both fund eachother too. May the reappesrance of our saviour be hastened to bring peace in our holy lands and the rest of the world
×