Jump to content

Recommended Posts

asslamoalaikum

I just read some hadiths about Sufi sect of Islam. I want to know if these hadiths are authentic or not.

1. Allama Shaikh Bahai copied from Mohadith Abbas Qummi that "Prophet Muhammad PBUH said "Before the day of Qayama a group will appear in my Ummah who will have the name "Sufia". In fact they will not be among my Ummah rather will be considered among Jews. They will be worst than Kafirs and will be dwellers of hell" [Safina tul Bahar V. 2. P. 58, Khazeena e Imania P. 177 Allama Ghulab Ali Shah Naqvi]

2. Allamah Muqadas Irdbili reported that a person said to Imam Jafar Sadiq a.s that "A new group has emerged who are called "Sufi" by people. What do you say about them?" Imam a.s replied "There is no doubt about it that they are our enemies. Whosoever will love them will be considered from themselves and will be with them in the day of Judgment. Soon there will be another group who will be similar to them and will have the same type of clothing and sayings and will call themselves as Sufi and will interpret the words of these Sufi in way of Kafirs and Zindeeqs. Therefore, they are not from us. We separate ourselves from them. Whosoever will oppose them and fight against them will be like one doing Jehad along with Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). [Hadiqa tul Shia P. 562-563, Khazeena e Imania P. 178, Jalwa e Haq P. 38 by Ayatullah Nasir Makaram Shirazi]

3. Allamah Muqadas Irdbili reported from Imam Ali Raza a.s that Imam a.s said "No person has the faith of Tasawuf but the one who is being deceived,  or deviated from right path or is foolish" [Hadiqa tul Shia P. 205, Khazeena e Imania, P. 177]

 

Edited by Aabiss_Shakari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasalaam, 

Sufi is the name attributed to the people who practices ihsan to achieve "qurbAllah" by other sects and religion group, no kaamil waliy claimed /claims sufi themselves ! All of them followed sharia and followed any of the four school of thoughts, they didn't established there own school of thoughts. Rather shaikhuna Abdul qadir rh said to his two children on his deathbed to stick to the large body of Islam (sawad al'azam)! And yes lot of people have became deviant and doing things against teaching of shaikhs /awliyas and claiming themselves sufis, babas, peers, RAHBARS etc ;. And iam surprised to know "according" to Ridha r.h and Ali r.a : only deviants & fools used to do tasawwuf ! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

asslamoalaikum

I just read some hadiths about Sufi sect of Islam. I want to know if these hadiths are authentic or not.

1. Allama Shaikh Bahai copied from Mohadith Abbas Qummi that "Prophet Muhammad PBUH said "Before the day of Qayama a group will appear in my Ummah who will have the name "Sufia". In fact they will not be among my Ummah rather will be considered among Jews. They will be worst than Kafirs and will be dwellers of hell" [Safina tul Bahar V. 2. P. 58, Khazeena e Imania P. 177 Allama Ghulab Ali Shah Naqvi]

2. Allamah Muqadas Irdbili reported that a person said to Imam Jafar Sadiq a.s that "A new group has emerged who are called "Sufi" by people. What do you say about them?" Imam a.s replied "There is no doubt about it that they are our enemies. Whosoever will love them will be considered from themselves and will be with them in the day of Judgment. Soon there will be another group who will be similar to them and will have the same type of clothing and sayings and will call themselves as Sufi and will interpret the words of these Sufi in way of Kafirs and Zindeeqs. Therefore, they are not from us. We separate ourselves from them. Whosoever will oppose them and fight against them will be like one doing Jehad along with Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). [Hadiqa tul Shia P. 562-563, Khazeena e Imania P. 178, Jalwa e Haq P. 38 by Ayatullah Nasir Makaram Shirazi]

3. Allamah Muqadas Irdbili reported from Imam Ali Raza a.s that Imam a.s said "No person has the faith of Tasawuf but the one who is being deceived,  or deviated from right path or is foolish" [Hadiqa tul Shia P. 205, Khazeena e Imania, P. 177]

 

There already was a thread on this so I'll paste my response here:

Before anyone can say anything about Sunni, Sufi, Shia', they all must first be defined.   I can't really respond or contribute to this topic unless I know what definition this fits under.  Otherwise this conversation will go nowhere.  Everyone should be given a chance to clear preconceived notions/misconceptions.

I learned myself I can't really believe what anyone says about someone else until I've met/studied them.   To most dismissive Sunni's, they have a completely backwards idea of what Shii' are and what they believe in.  Unfortunately, I can say the same of both Sunni's, Shia's, and even Sufi's of what they think their definition of Sufism is. 

Most especially since Sufism in of itself is not academically defined as a sect of Islam in its intended definition.

Everybody seems to need some kind of label to dissociate and separate themselves from another for whatever purposes they justify/invoke. 

I don't know what you know about Sufism, but it's literal definition is the internalization of inner dimensions/mysical columns of Islam.  If you're referring to specific Sufi orders, then you'd be better to perhaps name them which you think are a cult.   Many of Sufi adherents and followers were converts from the remaining descendants of the 'Ali Ibn Talib AS bloodline.  All but one of the orders trace the lineage of knowledge to him.   They call themselves under one umbrella term, "Sufis", but each have a drastically different interpretation of the knowledge that's been given to them, most of which has combined Sunni and Shia' elements.

No, not all of them rely on Islamic authority through dreams and such.  Some have deviations, and shirk tendencies, some don't.

Some of which have, what both Shia' and Sunni's would consider shirk like rituals/behaviors, but there are good many that do not. and instead follow Jafariah or one of the four Sunni schools of thought

 

" Historically, Muslims have used the word Tasawwuf to identify the practice of Sufis.[1] Mainstream scholars of Islam define Tasawwuf or Sufism as the name for the inner or esoteric dimension of Islam[13] which is supported and complemented by outward or exoteric practices of Islam, such as Islamic law.[14] In this view, "it is absolutely necessary to be a Muslim" to be a true Sufi, because Sufism's "methods are inoperative without" Muslim "affiliation".[15][16] However, the Islamic scholars themselves are not by any means in agreement about the meaning of the word sufi.[17] "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, celestial said:

Khomeini had interest in sufism btw. Seems like Ibn Arabi had influence on him.

Assalam.

I don't believe it, it's a big issue to discuss and research about.

How imam Khomeini' r.a Can avoid rasulallah and imams ( masters of creatures ) and hug a normal man especially one who seems was a suffi?

With all duo respect I guess you guys need a lot of information about suffi and suffi'isim.

It's a bed'a all I can say.

Wassalam.

Edited by Haimi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Assalam.

I don't believe it, it's a big issue to discuss and research about.

How imam Khomeini' r.a Can avoid rasulallah and imams ( masters of creatures ) and hug a normal man especially one who seems was a suffi?

With all duo respect I guess you guys need a lot of information about suffi and suffi'isim.

It's a bed'a all I can say.

Wassalam.

He has commentaries on Ibn Arabi's works.

And so what? Nothing surprising here. This is also happening today. I see many shias adhering to Rumi, even some shia scholars.

Edited by celestial

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, celestial said:

He has commentaries on Ibn Arabi's works.

And so what? Nothing surprising here. This is also happening today. I see many shias adhering to Rumi, even some shia scholars.

 

celestial who are the shia scholars you listen to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sidnaq said:

celestial who are the shia scholars you listen to?

Salam sidnaq,

I like to listen Ayatollah Sayed Ahmad Al Shirazi's (if i can find english subtitles) and Ayatollah Sayed Modarresi's lectures. I also listened some of the Yasser Al Habib's lectures. And I listen some local Turkish Shia scholars, some of them are really amazing.

Edited by celestial

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Haimi said:

I did count 11 words instead of one single word: turkey

Selam.

As a Turkish shia brother, do you know that yaser al-habib and that sayyed Ahmad?

Selam :)

I assume you are asking how do I know them. Well, I have the access to internet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, celestial said:

Salam sidnaq,

I like to listen Ayatollah Sayed Ahmad Al Shirazi's (if i can find english subtitles) and Ayatollah Sayed Modarresi's lectures. I also listened some of the Yasser Al Habib's lectures. And I listen some local Turkish Shia scholars, some of them are really amazing.

 

wow thats incredible thanks so much, hey do you know of any turkish shia translated lectures?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/08/2016 at 1:06 AM, celestial said:

Sorry what? I'm not a sufi dervish I don't swirl.

Yes brother swirling is not allowed and its not practice of ihsan, but if someone lost his sense then the matter will be different ! 

And i would like to mention: the cloak (khirqa) of Hassan Askari r.h was passed to Maroof karki r.h and then finally reached shaikh Abdul Qadir rh, but it was not possessed by "four deputies" after him who claimed to get "letters" from somewhere ! And even shaikh Abdul Qadir r.h didn't gived his spiritual khirqa to his sons but advised and  teached them, and yes he ordered his grandson Abdul Aziz Makki rh something but he passed his khirqa (cloak) to his beloved student and khadim Ali ibn al-hiti rh. And from there onwards this chain of imamat has been passed down in different tariqas and silsilas, Alhamdulillah. And now under whose possession is this khirqa and in which essence, only Allah knows best. :-) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, (patience) said:

Yes brother swirling is not allowed and its not practice of ihsan, but if someone lost his sense then the matter will be different ! 

And i would like to mention: the cloak (khirqa) of Hassan Askari r.h was passed to Maroof karki r.h and then finally reached shaikh Abdul Qadir rh, but it was not possessed by "four deputies" after him who claimed to get "letters" from somewhere ! And even shaikh Abdul Qadir r.h didn't gived his spiritual khirqa to his sons but advised and  teached them, and yes he ordered his grandson Abdul Aziz Makki rh something but he passed his khirqa (cloak) to his beloved student and khadim Ali ibn al-hiti rh. And from there onwards this chain of imamat has been passed down in different tariqas and silsilas, Alhamdulillah. And now under whose possession is this khirqa and in which essence, only Allah knows best. :-) 

I don't know whether you have noticed or not, but we are talking about how deviant sufis are, according to Shia Islam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, celestial said:

I don't know whether you have noticed or not, but we are talking about how deviant sufis are, according to Shia Islam.

Sorry i didn't noticed but "according to shia islam" all non twelvers are deviants atleast ! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*sigh*

la ilaha il Allah

:bismillah:

This constant calling of other Muslims deviants has got to end.  It the proofs of our correctness as Ithna Ashari are so clear, why are there Zaydis? Why are there Isma'ilis? Imam al Sadiq (AS) warned his followers that there would be a period of extreme confusion. We are getting as bad as the salafis by describing our own brothers and sisters as deviants.  Who are we to do that? We won't need daesh to wipe out everything except their literal and heavy handed interpretation of Islam.

As always,  I don't mean to be argumentative, but we have got to do better.  We need to be the school of broad mindedness.

R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, reisiger said:

*sigh*

la ilaha il Allah

:bismillah:

This constant calling of other Muslims deviants has got to end.  It the proofs of our correctness as Ithna Ashari are so clear, why are there Zaydis? Why are there Isma'ilis? Imam al Sadiq (AS) warned his followers that there would be a period of extreme confusion. We are getting as bad as the salafis by describing our own brothers and sisters as deviants.  Who are we to do that? We won't need daesh to wipe out everything except their literal and heavy handed interpretation of Islam.

As always,  I don't mean to be argumentative, but we have got to do better.  We need to be the school of broad mindedness.

R

Ive tried to say what you said, but I wouldn't be taken seriously as a non Shia.  What should matter more ?  Labeling and disassociating yourselves from others  who don't agree with your narrative?

Or achieving harmony and peace ?  Last I checked, Islam means peace,  and God created us and taught us not for His sake, but for our own.  Peace is number 1 objective I'd say.  

Losing ourselves in trivial miniscule details are obstacles to that peace.

In the Quran were literally told that if we disagree, then as long as we believe in Allah swt, and the last day, it is better for us. Always stipulate on peace and agree to disagree.  It doesn't Make human lesser than any other.  We're all sinners to a high degree and have alot to work on.

Edited by wmehar2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

Ive tried to say what you said, but I wouldn't be taken seriously as a non Shia.  What should matter more ?  Labeling and disassociating yourselves from others  who don't agree with your narrative?

Or achieving harmony and peace ?  Last I checked, Islam means peace,  and God created us and taught us not for His sake, but for our own.  Peace is number 1 objective I'd say.  

Losing ourselves in trivial miniscule details are obstacles to that peace.

In the Quran were literally told that if we disagree, then as long as we believe in Allah swt, and the last day, it is better for us. Always stipulate on peace and agree to disagree.  It doesn't Make human lesser than any other.  We're all sinners to a high degree and have alot to work on.

Salaam alaikum, my brother!

I can't agree more with what you said.  I'm sorry if anyone were to take you less seriously irrespective of what madhab or tariqah you may follow.  We are Muslims, alhamdulillah, and we need to start paying attention to what matters.  It doesn't matter if I'm Ja'fari, Hanafi, Maliki, etc., what matters is the understanding and acceptance of the absolute unity, singularity, transcendence, and utter perfection beyond comprehension of our Lord: tawhid.  Once we understand who Allah (SWT) is, we must learn what He expects from us, not as a tyrant, but as our Creator and Cherisher who wants what is best for us.  And those things are not labels and disassociation. 

Linguistically, I see peace in Islam, but I understand Islam to be the complete surrender and submission to Allah (SWT) in peace and sincerity.  But that's just my take.

I'm with you, brother.  100%. 

And I saw my good friend @Gaius I. Caesar in the mix too.  I think he's on the same page as well.

Your last paragraph nails it. If we believe in those things sincerely, so long as we have not committed shirk, Allah (SWT) promises to forgive our sins and errors. In shaa Allah.

Do you mind if I ask which tariqah you are part of? I've been enjoying some excellent lectures by Sufi shaykhs on the youtube.  Shaykh Noorudeen Durkee especially is amazing.

Whilst I'm rambling, I'm going to bring the Isma'ilis into it, specifically Ibn Sina and Nasir-e-Khusraw: these were luminaries who believed that despite there being error in much of it that all cultures and all messages had wisdom in them and that rather than disregard them or destroy them (*cough* daesh *cough*) that we should take what is good and discard what is not.  If that isn't reasonable, then I don't know what reason is apparently.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, reisiger said:

Salaam alaikum, my brother!

I can't agree more with what you said.  I'm sorry if anyone were to take you less seriously irrespective of what madhab or tariqah you may follow.  We are Muslims, alhamdulillah, and we need to start paying attention to what matters.  It doesn't matter if I'm Ja'fari, Hanafi, Maliki, etc., what matters is the understanding and acceptance of the absolute unity, singularity, transcendence, and utter perfection beyond comprehension of our Lord: tawhid.  Once we understand who Allah (SWT) is, we must learn what He expects from us, not as a tyrant, but as our Creator and Cherisher who wants what is best for us.  And those things are not labels and disassociation. 

Linguistically, I see peace in Islam, but I understand Islam to be the complete surrender and submission to Allah (SWT) in peace and sincerity.  But that's just my take.

I'm with you, brother.  100%. 

And I saw my good friend @Gaius I. Caesar in the mix too.  I think he's on the same page as well.

Your last paragraph nails it. If we believe in those things sincerely, so long as we have not committed shirk, Allah (SWT) promises to forgive our sins and errors. In shaa Allah.

Do you mind if I ask which tariqah you are part of? I've been enjoying some excellent lectures by Sufi shaykhs on the youtube.  Shaykh Noorudeen Durkee especially is amazing.

Whilst I'm rambling, I'm going to bring the Isma'ilis into it, specifically Ibn Sina and Nasir-e-Khusraw: these were luminaries who believed that despite there being error in much of it that all cultures and all messages had wisdom in them and that rather than disregard them or destroy them (*cough* daesh *cough*) that we should take what is good and discard what is not.  If that isn't reasonable, then I don't know what reason is apparently.

 

Wa'alaikum Assalaam,

I'm glad we find each other agreeable in this regard.  Truth be told, I've been in and out of different Tariqahs, the last Tariqah I've attempted to learn and follow was the Noorbakshia Sufi's.   For now, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about all the sects in some kind of order and see what insight I can dig up.  After leaving Sunnism, I kinda started learning from the Naqshbandies, then Bektashis, then kept moving around.   I don't think I follow a current Tariqah, to be fair Sufi is a name I came up to tell other people who weren't okay with just "Muslim". 

I grew up the Sunni way under Hanafi standards, so that's the way/history/perspective I grew up with and do out of habit, not sincerity.  Truth be told I'm just lost as **** man.

I don't have much knowledge surrounding the Ismaili's except some history regarding the Nizar/Hashasheen, but nothing really substantial.   I don't believe in disregarding all words of one man just because some of his words seem dubious either.  I feel dismissing someone is equivalent to not acknowledging their existence, taking what's good and discard what is not.

@Gaius I. Caesar and I are already buddies :) and I hope to meet him in person soon one of these weekends :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Alaikis Salaam sister,  Why don't you refer the book called 'Mafatih al-Jinan'. It has Aa'mal and duas for every month.  Search Google, play store or App store. 
    • Salaam Aleikum, Let say there is period of time where a born Muslim live in west and have no idea of anything about God, Islam, Prayer, Islamic laws and the person lives only according his desires and have ignorance about the matters of Islam. If the person realize God, and realize Islam and start to practice Islam, will the past sins be all forgiven?  Second, what happens to the Salaat and Fasting of that time, does it need to do Qada?
    • “... there will be there all that the souls could desire, all that the eyes could delight in …” (Quran 43:71) “Eat and drink at ease for that which you have sent forth (good deeds) in days past!” (Quran 69:24) “… They will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold, and they will wear green garments of fine silk and heavy brocade.  They will recline therein on raised thrones.  How good [is] the recompense!  How beautiful a couch [is there] to recline on!” (Quran 18:31) not hear therein ill speech or commission of sin.  But only the saying of: Peace! Peace!” (Quran 56:25-26) There will be no enmity between people nor ill-feelings: “And We shall remove from their breasts any (mutual) hatred or sense of injury (which they had, if at all, in the life of this world)…” (Quran 7:43)   “And whoever obeys God and the Messenger – those will be with the ones upon whom God has bestowed favor – of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous.  And excellent are those as companions!” (Quran 4:69) “Crystal-white, delicious to those who drink (thereof), free from intoxication, nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom” (Quran 37:46-47)   “...rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes...” (Quran 47:15)   they shall have therein purified mates…” (Quran 2:25) “And when you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a great dominion.” (Quran 76:20) 
    • A penny for your thoughts!  Come on people.
    • ^ Added to OP "some" western Muslims, to avoid generalization, because that was not the OP intention to generalize. And let's calm down please.
×