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27 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

If you are a muslim and you celebrate the creation of america then you are a hypocrite. 

How so?

I am as proud a shia as there is yet I find nothing wrong with celebrating America. 

I am free to practice my faith here more openly than any other country.

I also disagree with America's foreign policy frequently but that is the government and not the people.

To reiterate -  Happy Independence Day.

 

2 hours ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Please study history.  Don't celebrate oppression.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Slavery is a dark episode in American history but that is separate from the independance from Britain. 

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6 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

 

[MOD NOTE: The topic is Happy. Off-topic posts were removed.)

Lol. Sorry  I missed them.

PS...I don't really celebrate this day except as a symbol of liberation from any and all oppression.

I do admit a fondness for fireworks as a better (though somewhat polluting ) use for gunpowder than mindlessly killing fellow humans.

And I like sparkly objects.

And BBQs. 

And family gatherings.

Those are happening in my backyard right now EXCEPT NO ONE IS EATING UNTIL AFTER DARK DUE TO THE  MUSLIM my daughter married. 

( This will be my last official complaint  here about that. I promise.) :D

 

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Becoming independent from a tyrant colonizer like British empire is good, but really is the nation of America independent? To defend American people, that's better to say: No, they are not independent.

When Iranian felt their government under Shah is a dependent element of the west, they stood up and fought for years and overturned that dependent government. Now, after becoming independent, for example, a person like Ahmadinejad, without spending money for his presidential election campaign and without support of power sources, and just through people's votes becomes the president of the nation. How can such a thing happen in a country? How can a person without spending money and without being associated to the power sources become president of Iran? Because, It's not the money and political lobbies that choose the president, but the people themselves.  If Iranian government is helping Hezbollah or sending troops to some countries of the region, if the government doesn't recognize Zionist regime as a country, etc., it's the vast majority of the people's will, and they support these stances. So, unlike the Shah's era, it's the people who are controlling the matters, whether directly or indirectly, good or bad.

On the other hand, can we say the same things about the US? are the people who choose the Presidents in the US, or money sources (notice, I am not saying that US elections are necessarily rigged, I have no idea about that)? Are the people who dictate the countries affairs or political lobbies who even may not be from America? If one wants to say that it's the people, then they are, as a result, saying that invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, support for Israeli, creating, funding, arming and training terrorists groups, inhumane sanctions, such as food and drug sanctions, and forcing other countries to implement them on people of other countries, etc. etc. etc., are according to the choice of American people. If that is the case then, yes we can say American nation is a dependent nation, but it's not the case. That's why I am saying to defend American people, we should accept that they are not an independent nation.

However, it's just a particle of the apparent part of the issue, the hidden part is sadder and more painful. How the people think, how and what they dress, what they eat, so on and so forth, is what think tanks and their sources such as media choose, not the people, even though they are not noticing it – which is called Jahle morakab! Something very disgusting among people, by just a few years of work by media, all of a sudden will become a norm in the community, or even the people will defend that.

2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I am free to practice my faith here more openly than any other country.

I am almost sure that you agree with the fact that US regime is oppressing people in different countries. Clearly, fighting oppression is one of the most important part of practicing Shia faith. Now, can you fight US tyranny in the US soil? No.

The type of freedom of religion and social freedom implemented by US government and how it controls it, what it allows and when it allows all are based on a tactic that unfortunately has fooled many of us. To explain it more and in details, it requires its own long post.

----

What I posted was not so happy. So, if it's considered off-topic, please move it to the thought thread.

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^ The "kids" are still out there roasting marshmallows and telling stories around the embers. ( And keeping the animals from freaking out due to the firecrackers still going off in the area.) 

We two old parents retired to our room.

 

image.jpeg

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4 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

happy traitor day, you smelly colonials. we never wanted you anyway GIVE US OUR TEA BACK

In Britain's Most Wanted List, I wonder who would be higher - George Washington (if he were alive of course) or Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi?

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11 hours ago, kamyar said:

When Iranian felt their government under Shah is a dependent element of the west, they stood up and fought for years and overturned that dependent government. Now, after becoming independent, for example, a person like Ahmadinejad, without spending money for his presidential election campaign and without support of power sources, and just through people's votes becomes the president of the nation. How can such a thing happen in a country? How can a person without spending money and without being associated to the power sources become president of Iran? Because, It's not the money and political lobbies that choose the president, but the people themselves.  If Iranian government is helping Hezbollah or sending troops to some countries of the region, if the government doesn't recognize Zionist regime as a country, etc., it's the vast majority of the people's will, and they support these stances. So, unlike the Shah's era, it's the people who are controlling the matters, whether directly or indirectly, good or bad.

 

On the other hand, can we say the same things about the US? are the people who choose the Presidents in the US, or money sources (notice, I am not saying that US elections are necessarily rigged, I have no idea about that)? Are the people who dictate the countries affairs or political lobbies who even may not be from America? If one wants to say that it's the people, then they are, as a result, saying that invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, support for Israeli, creating, funding, arming and training terrorists groups, inhumane sanctions, such as food and drug sanctions, and forcing other countries to implement them on people of other countries, etc. etc. etc., are according to the choice of American people. If that is the case then, yes we can say American nation is a dependent nation, but it's not the case. That's why I am saying to defend American people, we should accept that they are not an independent nation.

No argument from me here. The American government has been taken over by Lobbyists and Special Interests. I have been saying for the past 3 elections, that we do not vote for a party but really vote for special interests - that is the bad.

The Good - nothing is stopping us Muslims from uniting and being active in American politics. The 2 most powerful lobbying groups in Washington are Israelis and Saudis. Is it any wonder that the Executive and Legislative branches do what these groups want. Easier said than done but we could ever unite as one, then there is no reason why we cannot have as much influence or more than AIPAC or the Saudis.

11 hours ago, kamyar said:

However, it's just a particle of the apparent part of the issue, the hidden part is sadder and more painful. How the people think, how and what they dress, what they eat, so on and so forth, is what think tanks and their sources such as media choose, not the people, even though they are not noticing it – which is called Jahle morakab! Something very disgusting among people, by just a few years of work by media, all of a sudden will become a norm in the community, or even the people will defend that.

Happens all over the world. Media is controlled by governments or the rich. There are very few unbiased sources of media left in the world.

11 hours ago, kamyar said:

I am almost sure that you agree with the fact that US regime is oppressing people in different countries. Clearly, fighting oppression is one of the most important part of practicing Shia faith. Now, can you fight US tyranny in the US soil? No.

The type of freedom of religion and social freedom implemented by US government and how it controls it, what it allows and when it allows all are based on a tactic that unfortunately has fooled many of us. To explain it more and in details, it requires its own long post.

I agree with your statement to a degree but I do not agree with your conclusion. Can we fight US tyranny? Yes, absolutely. It will not be by having a long drawn out battle but through politics alone. Referencing my earlier comment, the US Domestic and Foreign policy is up for sale to the highest bidder (unfortunately). For example, the US was all but ready to pull the trigger on attacking Syria only at the behest of Saudi and Israel but political pressure and maneuvering forced them to stop.
Another example - I was speaking to a famous shia figure (let's call him Professor X)  who is active in US politics and he told me brief story.  Professor X met with a US Senator who told him to his face that the shias are weird. There was a meeting taking place on how best to tackle Syria with representatives from Saudi and other countries. There was pressure to move on Syria in a certain direction (guess which one) and it seemed like there was resounding approval to proceed until a feeble voice spoke up. The guy said that attacking Syria would mean the end of heritage of 2,000 years of Christian history of Syria and American Christians would not stand for it. The committee did a 180 on their decision. Back to the Senator - he said how can we have a meeting where the Sunnis are telling us to attack Syria and a Christian says don't while the Shias are not even on the table.

Third example - G7+1 vs Iran negotiations. Political succes.s

That is our problem. We will sit on the by lines and complain about the World being against us instead of standing up and changing the world. Thankfully the political winds are achangin' and we are beginning to become more politically active to influence things our way.

We will probably agree to disagree.

PS. I celebrate July 4th because I love America but I celebrate it more because I really, really hate Britain. Also, I love the smell of gunpowder in the evening.

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