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Why is Ayatollah Khamenei fatwas so conservative?

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Asalamalekum,

I have been reading practical laws of islam by khameni for few months now, and comparing his fatwas with ayatollah sistani and many other marjas. And noticing aytaollah khameni fatwas are too conservative and bigoted. You would be surprised if i told you that they have recently updated their website leader.ir after i notify to them, that their website is missing important fatwas. I respect Ayatollah Khameni, and not trying to bog down anyone who follow him, but the more i do my research on him and his fatwas, his outlook comes out to me as a political leader, who wants to control people's day to day life affairs to extreme, than a religious and spiritual scholar.

Some of his fatwas are contradicting not one, but up to 5 leading marjas from najaf and qum.

For example, Ayatollah Sistani gives permission;

wearing a tie, watching satellite tv, looking at woman's face who has applied make up muslims and non muslim without lust. At the same time ayatollah khameni have the opposite fatwas on these issues.

And it is very clear that aytollah khameni intention is to try and control and confine iranian people and their day to day life affairs. One thing i noticed in his fatwas is that "since this thing is associated with the low west" it is therefore haram. If you read islamic laws of other marjas you would notice that non of these marjas try to interfere in miniature stuff such as entertainment. If they do give fatwas on such stuff, it is very clear and logical. 

Edited by Caliguy

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1 hour ago, Caliguy said:

Asalamalekum,

I have been reading practical laws of islam by khameni for few months now, and comparing his fatwas with ayatollah sistani and many other marjas. And noticing aytaollah khameni fatwas are too conservative and bigoted. You would be surprised if i told you that they have recently updated their website leader.ir after i notify to them, that their website is missing important fatwas. I respect Ayatollah Khameni, and not trying to bog down anyone who follow him, but the more i do my research on him and his fatwas, his outlook comes out to me as a political leader, who wants to control people's day to day life affairs to extreme, than a religious and spiritual scholar.

Some of his fatwas are contradicting not one, but up to 5 leading marjas from najaf and qum.

For example, Ayatollah Sistani gives permission;

wearing a tie, watching satellite tv, looking at woman's face who has applied make up muslims and non muslim without lust. At the same time ayatollah khameni have the opposite fatwas on these issues.

And it is very clear that aytollah khameni intention is to try and control and confine iranian people and their day to day life affairs. One thing i noticed in his fatwas is that "since this thing is associated with the low west" it is therefore haram. If you read islamic laws of other marjas you would notice that non of these marjas try to interfere in miniature stuff such as entertainment. If they do give fatwas on such stuff, it is very clear and logical. 

Actually, you're wrong. By that logic Sayyed al-Sistani, by saying chess is haram, he is attempting to control entertainment? What about Sayyed al-Sistani saying laughing and joking with opposite gender is haram, while Sayyed al-Khamenei says the opposite?

What about Sayyed al-Khoei saying Niqab is WAJIB based on precaution? 

The fact is different scholars are more "conservative" than others on "different issues" due to different methods of deducing Islamic Laws.

I am not here to defend Sayyed al-Khamenei, I don't know his Fiqh method, all I know is scholars have different methods of Fiqh.

Edited by The Batman

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On 6/30/2016 at 2:01 AM, Caliguy said:

For example, Ayatollah Sistani gives permission;

wearing a tie, watching satellite tv, looking at woman's face who has applied make up muslims and non muslim without lust. At the same time ayatollah khameni have the opposite fatwas on these issues.

"Looking at the face and hands up to wrists of non-mahram without lust is permissible."

[Tawdeeh al-Massa'il of Ayatullah Khamenei, Rule 2433]

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Actually, you're wrong. By that logic Sayyed al-Sistani, by saying chess is haram, he is attempting to control entertainment? What about Sayyed al-Sistani saying laughing and joking with opposite gender is haram, while Sayyed al-Khamenei says the opposite?

What about Sayyed al-Khoei saying Niqab is WAJIB based on precaution? 

The fact is different scholars are more "conservative" than others on "different issues" due to different methods of deducing Islamic Laws.

I am not here to defend Sayyed al-Khamenei, I don't know his Fiqh method, all I know is scholars have different methods of Fiqh.

i have always heard that playing chess is haram, so it comes no surprise to me that ayat sistani doesn't allow it. And it is common sense, that joking would be haram if someone is doing with the opposite gender. Because, joking and flirting go hand in hand.

i understand that every scholar has their way of deriving islamic law from quran. But what do you make out of this fatwa which i received from ayat khameni office?

"he make it haram even in the case of necessity not even for few seconds to look at muslim womans face who has applied zinat on her face" at the same time his fatwa contradict it self. When he mentions it is okay to watch and work in dramas and movies where womans beautify themselves.

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On 6/30/2016 at 3:06 AM, The Batman said:

Actually, you're wrong. By that logic Sayyed al-Sistani, by saying chess is haram, he is attempting to control entertainment? What about Sayyed al-Sistani saying laughing and joking with opposite gender is haram, while Sayyed al-Khamenei says the opposite?

What about Sayyed al-Khoei saying Niqab is WAJIB based on precaution? 

The fact is different scholars are more "conservative" than others on "different issues" due to different methods of deducing Islamic Laws.

I am not here to defend Sayyed al-Khamenei, I don't know his Fiqh method, all I know is scholars have different methods of Fiqh.

 

On 6/30/2016 at 3:36 AM, Shaykh Patience101 said:

"Looking at the face and hands up to wrists of non-mahram without lust is permissible."

[Tawdeeh al-Massa'il of Ayatullah Khamenei, Rule 2433]

 

 

 

have some coffee than read my text and lastly do some research before posting absurd stuff.

To Look at a Non-maḥram Woman
It is impermissible to look at a non-maḥram woman except for her face and hands up to wrists provided that they are unadorned and looking is without lustful and ill intentions.
 

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5 minutes ago, Caliguy said:

have some coffee than read my text and lastly do some research before posting absurd stuff.

To Look at a Non-maḥram Woman
It is impermissible to look at a non-maḥram woman except for her face and hands up to wrists provided that they are unadorned and looking is without lustful and ill intentions.

That's exactly what I wrote and directly contradicts what you said about Ayatullah Khamenei declaring looking at non-mahrams without lust to be impermissible. Maybe you should master reading before criticizing a leading marja'.

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56 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

That's exactly what I wrote and directly contradicts what you said about Ayatullah Khamenei declaring looking at non-mahrams without lust to be impermissible. Maybe you should master reading before criticizing a leading marja'.

have PATIENCE  and reread the entire fatwa and search in a dictionary the meaning of  "unadorned" 

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3 hours ago, Caliguy said:

"he make it haram even in the case of necessity not even for few seconds to look at muslim womans face who has applied zinat on her face" at the same time his fatwa contradict it self. When he mentions it is okay to watch and work in dramas and movies where womans beautify themselves.

There is no contradiction as he states: "Generally speaking, watching moving pictures and photographs does have not the same ruling as looking in reality at non-maḥram people. "

http://www.leader.ir/en/book/38

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4 hours ago, Caliguy said:

i have always heard that playing chess is haram, so it comes no surprise to me that ayat sistani doesn't allow it. And it is common sense, that joking would be haram if someone is doing with the opposite gender. Because, joking and flirting go hand in hand.

i understand that every scholar has their way of deriving islamic law from quran. But what do you make out of this fatwa which i received from ayat khameni office?

"he make it haram even in the case of necessity not even for few seconds to look at muslim womans face who has applied zinat on her face" at the same time his fatwa contradict it self. When he mentions it is okay to watch and work in dramas and movies where womans beautify themselves.

And so I told you, Sayyed al-Khamenei believes joking with the opposite gender is halal in and of itself. While Sayyed al-Sistani does not believe that it is halal, at all. Is this an example of Al-Khamenei being more "lenient and liberal" compared to Sayyed al-Sistani or not?

There are many more examples like this 

And and by the way, have you not seen what Sayyed al-Gulpaygani said, about looking at women?

Quote

Mas'alah 2442: It is haram for a man to look at the body or hair of a ghair mahram woman, whether it is with intention of sensuous enjoyment or not; likewise it is haram to look at the body or hair of a girl below nine years of age if such a glance may usually incite lusty feelings. And it is haram to look at their faces and hands with intentions of sensuous enjoyment rather the prohibition of looking at their face and hands, even without intention of sensuous enjoyment, is not without strong proof.

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?print=9038

Edited by The Batman

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6 hours ago, Caliguy said:

Asalamalekum,

I have been reading practical laws of islam by khameni for few months now, and comparing his fatwas with ayatollah sistani and many other marjas. And noticing aytaollah khameni fatwas are too conservative and bigoted. You would be surprised if i told you that they have recently updated their website leader.ir after i notify to them, that their website is missing important fatwas. I respect Ayatollah Khameni, and not trying to bog down anyone who follow him, but the more i do my research on him and his fatwas, his outlook comes out to me as a political leader, who wants to control people's day to day life affairs to extreme, than a religious and spiritual scholar.

Some of his fatwas are contradicting not one, but up to 5 leading marjas from najaf and qum.

For example, Ayatollah Sistani gives permission;

wearing a tie, watching satellite tv, looking at woman's face who has applied make up muslims and non muslim without lust. At the same time ayatollah khameni have the opposite fatwas on these issues.

And it is very clear that aytollah khameni intention is to try and control and confine iranian people and their day to day life affairs. One thing i noticed in his fatwas is that "since this thing is associated with the low west" it is therefore haram. If you read islamic laws of other marjas you would notice that non of these marjas try to interfere in miniature stuff such as entertainment. If they do give fatwas on such stuff, it is very clear and logical. 

Salamun alaykum.

It is not a true way to compare few verdicts of Maraji' and conclude that this Marja' is more open-minded than the other. After all, every Marja' bases his verdicts on principles he believes in.

As for your example, though i disagree with such comparisons, other examples can be referred to which prove otherwise. for example, regarding women's dancing, Ayat Allah Sistani believes that " Dancing of women in front of women ... is problematic, as a matter of obligatory precaution, one must refrain from it". However, Ayat Allah Khamenei believes that if the sessions does not turn to a lahvi session and if dancing does not entail sexual excitation or committing a ḥarām act, there is no problem" then it is permitted.

Can we say that Ayat Allah Khamenei is more open-minded since he allows it in under some condition?

Let's refrain from such comparisons.

 

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6 hours ago, Shiawarrior313 said:

There is no contradiction as he states: "Generally speaking, watching moving pictures and photographs does have not the same ruling as looking in reality at non-maḥram people. "

http://www.leader.ir/en/book/38

what i am saying is that on one hand he makes it impermissible to look at a womans face if she has beautify it. Than on the other, he gives out fatwa that it is okay to watch iranian dramas, movies etc without lust. And he let these actress put on make up in those serials which are under his ministry of entertainment. 

I agree with many fatwa by Ayatollah Khameni such as banning cursing the 3 rashidun caliphate which ignites sectarianism. But in daily life matters such as entertainment and looking and interaction with opposite gender, his fatwas are conservative.

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5 hours ago, mina said:

@Caliguy,are you a mujtahid?

no a mukallaf

and i don't blindly agree with a mujtahid like most illiterate people. Just because they are in power and on a high position doesn't make them correct. If they all were correct, than the mujtahids themselves wouldn't contradict each other in the first place.

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If Sayed Khamenei rules something in a manner such that you think it 'conservative,' it is because he believes that Allah has ruled it so.

Now call Allah conservative.

Your opinion of where the ruling stands on the political spectrum means didly squat.

Edited by Shaykh Patience101

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12 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Why is it that I can't find Khamenei's resalah anywhere? I been looking for awhile. 

Bro Silasun:

Quote

You need to refer to Ayat. Khamenei's books of Q and A first and if you can't find it then refer to Imam Khomeini's Tahrir-al-Wasilah. 

 

Here is a useful book containing select rulings of Imam and Ay.Khamenei:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6rz5f3vgj1rywy0/X-s313h528/A%20Guide%20to%20Religious%20Laws%20-%20Mohammed%20Falah-Zadeh.pdf

 

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55 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

If Sayed Khamenei rules something in a manner such that you think it 'conservative,' it is because he believes that Allah has ruled it so.

Now call Allah conservative.

Your opinion of where the ruling stands on the political spectrum means didly squat.

i can name another 4 to 5 living marjas beside ayatllah sistani, who could be and are more learned than ayatollah khameni. But people don't know or follow them, because they choose not to be on the limelight and endorse themselves. What i like about ayatollah sistani is, he stays away from showcasing himself and does what he is suppose to do. Which is a religious scholar and stay at his howza, unlike khameni.

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https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/taqlid

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2116/

http://wahidkhorasani.com/Data/Books/ISLAMIC LAWS.pdf

http://www.leader.ir/en/book/23

["3. There are three ways of identifying a jurist or the most learned jurist:

i) When a person personally believes that such and such person is a jurist or the most learned jurist. For confirming this he should be a learned person himself and should possess the capacity to identify a jurist or the most learned jurist.

ii) When two persons, who are learned and just and possess the capacity to identify a jurist or the most learned jurist, should certify to a person’s being a jurist or the most learned jurist, provided that two other learned and just persons do not contradict them. And apparently the fact of a person’s being a jurist or the most learned jurist is also proved by the statement of only one person who is reliable.

iii) When many learned persons who possess the capacity to identify a jurist or the most learned jurist should certify to a person’s being jurist or the most learned jurist and when one is satisfied by their statement.']

*****

Everyone is allowed to select a Mujtahid( Jurists) to follow, based on his/her research. And unless you are asked and you are one of the above(qualified individuals), no reason promote anyone.(does not matter who you follow).

I do not see any ruling by the above Top Jurists-  that a follower (muqallid) of any of the Learned Scholar of his time. Should promote/impose his Mujtahid(Jurist) or Demote other Mujtahids(Jurists) in public. ?

This is not our way, we do not want to end up like other Muslims with many schools of Fiqh. In the past, followers of Jurists needed to promote superiority of one of the Four schools of Fiqh, for political purpose/gains which was usually aligned with the desires of the Political authority of that time.

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On 6/30/2016 at 10:35 PM, Caliguy said:

i can name another 4 to 5 living marjas beside ayatllah sistani, who could be and are more learned than ayatollah khameni. But people don't know or follow them, because they choose not to be on the limelight and endorse themselves.

You don't know who's more learnt and who's not, buddy.

On 6/30/2016 at 10:35 PM, Caliguy said:

What i like about ayatollah sistani is, he stays away from showcasing himself and does what he is suppose to do. Which is a religious scholar and stay at his howza, unlike khameni.

First of all Ayatullah Sistani hasn't ever locked himself up in a Hawza and turned away from all the affairs of the Ummah. As much as you people who constantly try to portray Sistani as being in opposition to Khamenei want to believe otherwise, Ayatullah Sistani has been one of the politically influential people in the Iraq over the last few years. The two most visible examples of his activism have been his fatwa for call to arms against ISIS, and his call for Iraqis to participate in the last general elections. And if I am not wrong, it is obligatory to obey the fatwa of your marja'. He has even taken the step of meeting Ban Ki Moon, who is not exactly a religious figure.

Another example:

Quote

Last night one of the cleric's aides warned that if the US administrator in Baghdad, Paul Bremer, does not accept his demand, Ayatollah Sistani may issue a ruling telling Iraq's Shia majority not to accept the new government, which is due to take power by July. "If Bremer rejects Ayatollah Sistani's opinion, he would issue a fatwa depriving the US-appointed council of its legitimacy," Ayatollah Mohammed Baqer al-Mohri told Abu Dhabi television. "After this, the Iraqi people will not obey this council. This US plan is not in line with Sistani's views."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/grand-ayatollah-ali-al-sistani-urges-global-war-against-isis-n437421
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iraq-isis-uprising-ayatollah-ali-al-sistani-calls-shia-jihad-defend-baghdad-1452520
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jan/16/iraq.rorymccarthy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luay-al-khatteeb/back-to-iraqs-future--a-c_b_5622919.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luay-al-khatteeb/what-do-you-know-about-si_b_5576244.html

These two articles illustrate Ayatullah Sistani's behind-the-scenes politcal work best:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-clerics-insight-idUSKBN0F30KX20140629
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luay-al-khatteeb/sistanis-jihad-fatwa-one_b_7579322.html

 

If you are looking to follow a religion which advocates shutting yourself up in a seminary and staying aloof from the problems of the real world, I sincerely advise you to leave Sh'ia Islam as fast as you can.

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@Shaykh Patience101 can you please refrain from saying unnecessary negative things : Leave shia Islam as fast as you can.

What would such comments achieve?? You think our Ai'ma would ever say this to someone ?

The OP asked a question , Khamenei forbids looking at women's made up faces in real life yet allows that on television. 

Instead of giving an answer that would clear away the doubts from his mind I don't understand why nearly everyone's gone defensive and started attacking him??  

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12 hours ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

You don't know who's more learnt and who's not, buddy.

First of all Ayatullah Sistani hasn't ever locked himself up in a Hawza and turned away from all the affairs of the Ummah. As much as you people who constantly try to portray Sistani as being in opposition to Khamenei want to believe otherwise, Ayatullah Sistani has been one of the politically influential people in the Iraq over the last few years. The two most visible examples of his activism have been his fatwa for call to arms against ISIS, and his call for Iraqis to participate in the last general elections. And if I am not wrong, it is obligatory to obey the fatwa of your marja'. He has even taken the step of meeting Ban Ki Moon, who is not exactly a religious figure.

Another example:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/grand-ayatollah-ali-al-sistani-urges-global-war-against-isis-n437421
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iraq-isis-uprising-ayatollah-ali-al-sistani-calls-shia-jihad-defend-baghdad-1452520
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jan/16/iraq.rorymccarthy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luay-al-khatteeb/back-to-iraqs-future--a-c_b_5622919.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luay-al-khatteeb/what-do-you-know-about-si_b_5576244.html

These two articles illustrate Ayatullah Sistani's behind-the-scenes politcal work best:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-clerics-insight-idUSKBN0F30KX20140629
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/luay-al-khatteeb/sistanis-jihad-fatwa-one_b_7579322.html

 

If you are looking to follow a religion which advocates shutting yourself up in a seminary and staying aloof from the problems of the real world, I sincerely advise you to leave Sh'ia Islam as fast as you can.

Leave aside the debate if i know or don't know who is the most learned marja. One thing is clear you can't even wrap your head around a single sentence fatwa.

Don't give me lessons on what Ayatollah khameni or Sistani have done or is more political and religious scholars. All these links you have posted, i have read them ages ago. I know more about them, than you can even imagine.

And delete pictures from this topic, i can already tell how ignorant you are from your words.

Edited by Caliguy

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7 hours ago, starlight said:

@Shaykh Patience101 can you please refrain from saying unnecessary negative things : Leave shia Islam as fast as you can.

What would such comments achieve?? You think our Ai'ma would ever say this to someone ?

The OP asked a question , Khamenei forbids looking at women's made up faces in real life yet allows that on television. 

Instead of giving an answer that would clear away the doubts from his mind I don't understand why nearly everyone's gone defensive and started attacking him??  

because they don't have a positive advice to give. I was not trying to defame Ayatollah Khameni in anyway, i agree with many of his fatwas. But i noticed when i started reading his risalah, many of his fatwas contradict each other. For example, this question i send to his office around 7 times and when they didn't had a answer to my question, they world reply "it is impermissible to make such assumptions". Q. how does he make it impermissible to look at womans face who has beautify herself, even a small thing as shaping a eyebrow EVEN IN THE CASE OF NECESSITY NOT PERMISSIBLE" than he makes it permissible to watch iranian dramas, movies etc where many womasn have havey make up and hair shown? How can he let these actress work with make up than, which is under his ministry of entertainment?

He makes it impermissible to watch neighboring gulf or satellite tv! than what about people like myself who is not irani, what am i suppose to watch?

Another thing i noticed in his fatwas were "because something is associated with the west therefore it must be haram, such as wearing a tie"

Edited by Caliguy

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