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Mr. Anderson

Sayed al-Sadr's approach about the Yamani

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1 hour ago, Mr. Anderson said:

@Rectify

Sayed al-Sadr r.a. also said Yamani a.s. not from Yemen

 

Salamun alaykum.

I am not going to share the narrations which reject this idea; rather, my point is that the Imams (as), when referring to the signs of reappearance, had the purpose of guiding the Shi'a to know Imam Mahdi and his enemies. Thus, they were not supposed to use terms and words which would bring new doubts for Shia. Therefore, when they have called him "yamani" it means that he is from Yemen since this is the impression of those who hear such narrations.

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And Ahl al-Bayt (as) says, that Yamani is from Yemen, but hypocrite followers of Ahmad al-Hassan, would rather ignore that. 


Imam Ali (as) has also mentioned the location, from which al-Yamani will emerge. No, it's not Basrah, so the claims of Ahmad al-Hassan are false.
 
خمسة من علامات القائم (عليه السلام): اليماني من اليمن، والسفياني، والمنادي ينادي بالسماء، وخسف بالبيداء، وقتل النفس الزكية
 
[Imam Ali (as) said]: "[There are] five from the signs of al-Qa’im (as), al-Yamani from Yemen, Sufyani, a caller will call from the sky, the swallowing by the desert, and the killing of Nafs az-Zakiyya."
 
 
_______________________
 
Shia References:
Source: Uyun al-hikam by Sheikh al-Wasiti, page 244, Hadith # 4642

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Ahmad al-Hassan claims to be the first 'believer' and 1st companion of Imam al-Mahdi (as) from Basrah while he also claims to be the divinely appointed Imam from Ahl al-Bayt (as). If we refer to the hadith of Ahl al-Bayt (as) we will found out the following:

 

قال أبو بصير: قلت جعلت فداك ليس على الأرض يومئذٍ مؤمن غيرهم؟ قال: بلى، ولكن هذه التي يخرج الله فيها القائم عليه السلام، وهم النجباء والقضاة والحكام والفقهاء في الدين يمسح بطونهم وظهورهم فلا يشتبه عليهم حكم

 

[...] Abu Baser asked [the Imam]: ''May I sacrifice myself for you. Will there be any believer on the earth other than the companions of al-Qā’im (as)? Imam (as) said: Yes, but the companions are those with whom al-Qā’im will rise. They are the noble ones, the judges, the rulers, and the scholars in religion. [al-Qā’im] will move his hands over their stomachs and their backs, and [by doing so] they will never commit an error in their judgment.''

 

 

I say: The hadith is clear, none of the companions of 12th Imam (as) will be divinely appointed Imam.

 

 

_______________________

 

Shia References.

Source: al-Maḥajjah by Baḥrānī, page 34,

 

http://shia-rafidah.com/articles/67-companions.html#.V2qk1fmLSUk

 

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50 minutes ago, amirhosein_88 said:

Salamun alaykum.

I am not going to share the narrations which reject this idea; rather, my point is that the Imams (as), when referring to the signs of reappearance, had the purpose of guiding the Shi'a to know Imam Mahdi and his enemies. Thus, they were not supposed to use terms and words which would bring new doubts for Shia. Therefore, when they have called him "yamani" it means that he is from Yemen since this is the impression of those who hear such narrations.

Wa aleikom Salam,

the Prophet s.a.w.w saying that he is a Yamani and we know that the Prophet s.a.w.w was born in Mecca.

Prophet pbuhap said:"Belief(Imaan) is Yamani and I am a Yamani"v.57 p.232 Bihar Alanwar

Here we see that the term Yamani is also a term that describes a position of faith and purity. 

Sheikh AlMajlesy:
He said that because Imaan(faith)started from Mecca which is Tuhama from the region of Yemen and so it was called:The Yamani Kaaba
Mustadrak Safeenat AlBihar Sheikh Ali AlNumazi v.10 p.602 and Bihar AlAnwar v.22 p.1

Narrated by Ali AlKorani in Book of Mu'jam Ahadeeth Imam AlMahdi (a.s) v.1 p.299"AlMahdi has to be from Quraish,and the caliphate is among them,and he has an origin 
and lineage from Yemen"

So we see that Imam al-Mahdi a.s. is also Yamani, but he was born in Samarra.

The Prophet pbuh took the hand of Al-Abba[son of Abdulmutalib] and the hand of Ali a.s and said:"There shall be a man from the offspring of this man(Abbas)who shall fill the earth unjustice and tyranny,and there shall be from this man(Ali)who shall spread the earth with justice and tranquility, so if you see this happening,on you is to go with the man who is a Yemeni for he shall come from the East and he is the one with the banner of the Mahdi" Al-Mahdi Al-Muntather Al-Maw'ood door#2/p.207

The East is Iraq, Iran.. not Yemen. 

As for the narrations in which (from Yemen) is added for the Yamani by the authors to the original narrations - there is a hadeeth that says Yamani emerges from Yemen in Kamal AlDeen and its in the same manuscript around 1880 A.D but we see that Sayed AlMarashi who reports the same exact hadeeth from Fusool AlMuhimma by Ibn Sabaag AlMaliky p.284 print of AlGiree which is a 7th century A.H book, it did not contain from Yemen.

From Yemen also exists in Bihar 1110 A.H which is around 1290 A.H manuscript but Fusool AlMuhimma reports the exact same hadeeth in Kamal AlDeen without from Yemen and also Sayed AlMarashi. 

So (from Yemen) is added years later.

These are the only prints which mentioned (from yemen)after Yamani as they were between parenthesis and there is no explanation for its reason as a footnote: 1-Book:Kamal AlDeen Watamam AlNi'ma Author:Sheikh AlSadooq Demise:381 A.H Investigated by:Edited and Commented by:Ali Akbar AlGafary Print:Muharram AlHaram 1405 A.H Published by:Mu'asasat AlNasher AlIslami AlTabe'a Lijame'at AlMudareseen in Honarable Qom 2-Book:Mujam Ahadeeth AlImam AlMahdi a.s Author:Sheikh Ali Korani - From Yemen:Its there with paranthesis without any indication of where it was taken from. 

 

Yamani doesn't emerge from Yemen in a hadeeth from Kamal AlDeen and this hadeeth comes from an earlier source.

This hadeeth(picture in the bottom)gives a location for Sufyani that he is from Sham but no location for the Yamani and nothing about him emerging from Yemen.

from yemen1.png

the next picture shows us that this hadeeth from Bihar AlAnwar doesn't have "From Yemen" added like later on.

no yemen bihar11.png

Like Sayeed al-Sadr r.a. has said - the Shias focus on "from Yemen", when Ahlulbayt pbut narrations never had such focus... and the revolution of Imam al-Mahdi a.s. starts from Iraq.

 

Another Shia Scholar - Sheikh Jalal alDeen aSagheer who says that Yamani a.s. has nothing to do with Yemen but with Iraq. 

 

And Allah's peace and blessings.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mr. Anderson said:

Wa aleikom Salam,

the Prophet s.a.w.w saying that he is a Yamani and we know that the Prophet s.a.w.w was born in Mecca.

Prophet pbuhap said:"Belief(Imaan) is Yamani and I am a Yamani"v.57 p.232 Bihar Alanwar

Here we see that the term Yamani is also a term that describes a position of faith and purity. 

Sheikh AlMajlesy:
He said that because Imaan(faith)started from Mecca which is Tuhama from the region of Yemen and so it was called:The Yamani Kaaba
Mustadrak Safeenat AlBihar Sheikh Ali AlNumazi v.10 p.602 and Bihar AlAnwar v.22 p.1

Narrated by Ali AlKorani in Book of Mu'jam Ahadeeth Imam AlMahdi (a.s) v.1 p.299"AlMahdi has to be from Quraish,and the caliphate is among them,and he has an origin 
and lineage from Yemen"

So we see that Imam al-Mahdi a.s. is also Yamani, but he was born in Samarra.

The Prophet pbuh took the hand of Al-Abba[son of Abdulmutalib] and the hand of Ali a.s and said:"There shall be a man from the offspring of this man(Abbas)who shall fill the earth unjustice and tyranny,and there shall be from this man(Ali)who shall spread the earth with justice and tranquility, so if you see this happening,on you is to go with the man who is a Yemeni for he shall come from the East and he is the one with the banner of the Mahdi" Al-Mahdi Al-Muntather Al-Maw'ood door#2/p.207

The East is Iraq, Iran.. not Yemen. 

As for the narrations in which (from Yemen) is added for the Yamani by the authors to the original narrations - there is a hadeeth that says Yamani emerges from Yemen in Kamal AlDeen and its in the same manuscript around 1880 A.D but we see that Sayed AlMarashi who reports the same exact hadeeth from Fusool AlMuhimma by Ibn Sabaag AlMaliky p.284 print of AlGiree which is a 7th century A.H book, it did not contain from Yemen.

From Yemen also exists in Bihar 1110 A.H which is around 1290 A.H manuscript but Fusool AlMuhimma reports the exact same hadeeth in Kamal AlDeen without from Yemen and also Sayed AlMarashi. 

So (from Yemen) is added years later.

These are the only prints which mentioned (from yemen)after Yamani as they were between parenthesis and there is no explanation for its reason as a footnote: 1-Book:Kamal AlDeen Watamam AlNi'ma Author:Sheikh AlSadooq Demise:381 A.H Investigated by:Edited and Commented by:Ali Akbar AlGafary Print:Muharram AlHaram 1405 A.H Published by:Mu'asasat AlNasher AlIslami AlTabe'a Lijame'at AlMudareseen in Honarable Qom 2-Book:Mujam Ahadeeth AlImam AlMahdi a.s Author:Sheikh Ali Korani - From Yemen:Its there with paranthesis without any indication of where it was taken from. 

 

Yamani doesn't emerge from Yemen in a hadeeth from Kamal AlDeen and this hadeeth comes from an earlier source.

This hadeeth(picture in the bottom)gives a location for Sufyani that he is from Sham but no location for the Yamani and nothing about him emerging from Yemen.

from yemen1.png

the next picture shows us that this hadeeth from Bihar AlAnwar doesn't have "From Yemen" added like later on.

no yemen bihar11.png

Like Sayeed al-Sadr r.a. has said - the Shias focus on "from Yemen", when Ahlulbayt pbut narrations never had such focus... and the revolution of Imam al-Mahdi a.s. starts from Iraq.

 

Another Shia Scholar - Sheikh Jalal alDeen aSagheer who says that Yamani a.s. has nothing to do with Yemen but with Iraq. 

 

And Allah's peace and blessings.

 

 

 

Salamun alaykum.

In the same page of Bihar al-anwar, (vol. 57 p. 232), in the narration mentioned before the one you quoted, the Holy Prophet says:

لَوْ لَا الْهِجْرَةُ لَكُنْتُ امْرَأً مِنْ أَهْلِ الْيَمَن‏


which means that the Holy Prophet is not a Yamani.

Besides, the narration you quoted does not have an authentic chain of narration.

The Holy Prophet is a Tahami not a Yamani.

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17 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

 

Well we might actually buy if that so called mahdi would take action rather than just opening uncountable blogs and Youtube channels.

Seriously, how long has this propaganda been going on and what has changed since then ? 

Wa aleikom Salam

Is this how the religion of Allah swt works? If this was the case, Imam Ali pbuh could have risen and everything would have finished back then. He wanted 50 Shias to come in the morning to rise against the tyrants and usurpers, only Miqdad, Abu Tharr and Salman came. Imam Jafar al-Sadiq pbuh has said that he needed only 17 Shias to make him rise. If we use this logic, we could say why didn't Imam al-Mahdi pbuh rise back then after he was born and everything would have finished, and Divine State would have been established 1000 years ago, but this way we would be questioning Allah swt, which is unwise. Now we have 300+ million Shias and only a few thousand who are followers of the Yamani pbuh.

Also it doesn't depend on the Yamani pbuh to decide for himself to take action. When we have 2 Hujja of Allah swt, one is Pronouncing Hujja, the other is Silent Hujja. And the Silent Hujja speaks only if he is permitted by the Pronouncing Hujja, and in this day the Yamani pbuh, who is mentioned by name Ahmed and Mahdi to be Imam al-Mahdi's pbuh Successor in Prophet's Will, is the Silent Hujja, he does something only by the orders of the Pronouncing Hujja which is Imam Mohammed al-Mahdi pbuh. Like Aaron pbuh was the Successor of Moses pbuh, he was sent to their nation before Moses pbuh by the orders of Moses pbuh, as Moses pbuh was the Pronouncing Hujja and Aaron pbuh was the Silent Hujja. Like Imam Hasan pbuh was the Silent Hujja and Imam Ali was the Pronoucing Hujja, and when Imam Hasan pbuh was asked a question by the Shias he answered them by the permission of Imam Ali pbuh and Imam Ali pbuh said that the answer is correct. Anyhow, the taking of action doesn't depend on the Pronouncing Hujja, it is when Allah swt wills, Imam al-Mahdi pbuh can't decide when his Occultation ends, it is when Allah swt wills. 

The Imam a.s. has written around 50 books, arming the Shias with knowledge, is the knowledge not enough? It is narrated from Ahlulbayt pbut that during the time of the Qa'im the 27 letters of knowledge will be revealed, from which the Prophets pbuh came with 2 letters and he pbuh will come with 25 letters and merge them. But as to why not much has changed since then, because 300 million Shias don't follow Ahmed pbuh who was sent as Messenger by Imam al-Mahdi pbuh to the Muslims and when the Relief comes depends on all of us.  And not much has changed since the time of Noah pbuh when he preached for 950 years to his nation only to be called a deciever and a liar. The Imam a.s. was sent by Imam al-Mahdi a.s. to the Hawza of Najaf in 1999 and in 2003 by the orders of Imam al-Mahdi a.s. the Call was made for the whole world, so the time that has passed since the start of spreading the Call is not very long.

 

Edited by Mr. Anderson

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15 hours ago, amirhosein_88 said:

Salamun alaykum.

In the same page of Bihar al-anwar, (vol. 57 p. 232), in the narration mentioned before the one you quoted, the Holy Prophet says:

لَوْ لَا الْهِجْرَةُ لَكُنْتُ امْرَأً مِنْ أَهْلِ الْيَمَن‏


which means that the Holy Prophet is not a Yamani.

Besides, the narration you quoted does not have an authentic chain of narration.

The Holy Prophet is a Tahami not a Yamani.

Wa Aleikom salam,

The great Shia scholar Sheikh AlMajlesy r.a. said the following:
He said that because Imaan(faith)started from Mecca which is Tuhama from the region of Yemen and so it was called: The Yamani Kaaba
Mustadrak Safeenat AlBihar Sheikh Ali AlNumazi v.10 p.602 and Bihar AlAnwar v.22 p.1

So we have the words of great Schia scholars like Sheikh Al-Majlesy r.a. and Sayed al-Sadr r.a. and also Sheikh Sagheer.

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11 minutes ago, Mr. Anderson said:

Wa Aleikom salam,

The great Shia scholar Sheikh AlMajlesy r.a. said the following:
He said that because Imaan(faith)started from Mecca which is Tuhama from the region of Yemen and so it was called: The Yamani Kaaba
Mustadrak Safeenat AlBihar Sheikh Ali AlNumazi v.10 p.602 and Bihar AlAnwar v.22 p.1

So we have the words of great Schia scholars like Sheikh Al-Majlesy r.a. and Sayed al-Sadr r.a. and also Sheikh Sagheer.

Salamun aalykum.

2 points:

- The address you gave is not correct ( Bihar AlAnwar v.22 p.1 ).

- What you quoted has been mentioned in Bihar Al-Anwar v. 22 p.137 and Bihar Al-Anwar v.34 p. 451 but you have not quoted the whole statements of Allama Majlisi. After referring to the following narration:

ِ أَفْضَلُ الْإِيمَانُ يَمَانِيٌّ وَ الْحِكْمَةُ يَمَانِيَّةٌ وَ لَوْ لَا الْهِجْرَةُ لَكُنْتُ امْرَأً مِنْ أَهْلِ الْيَمَن‏


(which proves that the Prophet is not from Yemen), Allama Majlisi has an explanation where he quotes al-Jazari:

و قال الجزري في الحديث الإيمان يمان و الحكمة يمانية إنما قال ص ذلك لأن الإيمان بدأ من مكة و هي من تهامة و تهامة من أرض اليمن و لهذا يقال الكعبة اليمانية و قيل إنه قال هذا القول للأنصار لأنهم يمانون و هم نصروا الإيمان و المؤمنين و آووهم فنسب الإيمان إليهم انتهى.


So first of all, this is the idea of al-Jazari and not that of Allama Majlisi; Secondly, it is a great mistake and fallacy by al-Jazari and many of the followers of Ahmad al-Hasan. Tihama is a name for various regions including Mecca and Yemen. So every Meccan is a Tihami and every person from Yemen is a Tihami but it does not mean that every Meccan is a Yemeni. This fallacy is like this claim that every Japanese is a Korean because every Japanese is an Asian and every Korean is an Asian too.

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@amirhosein_88, wa aleikom salam

yes my fault, page is 137, not 1.

Firstly, you say that its a mistake and fallacy, who from the scholars said that AlJazari made a mistake or is it just you saying that? 

Secondly, in the book Usool Sitat Ashar, the Prophet s.a.w.w  said:Faith is Yaman and I am a Yamani. This is in page 247 .  الإيمان يمان وأنا يماني

So did the Prophet make a mistake by calling himself a Yamani?

Sayeed al-Sadr r.a. made a mistake saying "Yamani" is allegorical meaning and Yamani is from Iraq , Sheikh Sagheer made a mistake that Yamani comes from nowhere else but Iraq ?

So everybody made a mistake, but your claim that Yamani means from Yemen is the truth ? 

 

Edited by Mr. Anderson

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5 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Yamani عليه السلام not being from Yemen doesn't prove Ahmad Al Hassan is him. Yamani is said to reappear before the Imam in a short time. Ahmad Al Hassan has been around for ages

Emergence will happen shortly before Imam al-Mahdi pbuh, same day as Sufyani, not appearence.


قال الامام الباقر ع خروج السفياني واليماني والخرساني في سنة واحدة في شهر واحد في يوم واحد نظام كنظام الخرز يتبع بعضه بعضا فيكون الياس من كل وجه بحار الانوار ج 52/208
Imam Al-Baqer a.s said:"Khorooj" Emergence of Sufyani,Yamani,Al-Khurasani in one year,one month,and in one day,arranged like the beeds (in a string) one follows the other,and so then despair will be in every direction.
Bihar Al-Anwar v.52 p.208


Difference between Thohoor and Khurooj:
Meaning of Khurooj"emergence": When Yamani,Sufyani,Khorasani all prepare themselves so they can go to war or when war/battle begins it happens in one day or one month or one year.
Meaning of Thohoor"appearance":When Yamani,Sufyani,Khurasani appear before Khurooj, they will take years in order to gather their troops and followers before heading to battle.

Similarly, Prophet Muhammad s.a.w appeared with his call alone and then Imam Ali a.s. was the first to follow him and then he spent 13 years preaching until 313 companions were with him and THEN he made khurooj against the disbelievers. So it takes a long process before the Prophet s.a.w makes khurooj to go to war and battle.

Ahmad Al-Hassan a.s has appeared but did not make khurooj yet against the enemies until Allah swt permits it. He will make khurooj when Imam Al-Mahdi a.s orders him and when the Halaqa"the complete round of the Mahdi victors" are present.
Imam Jaafer son of Muammad a.s:"The Riser will not emerge until the round completes".So I said:"How much is that round?".He said:10,000
p.361 v.52 Bihar AlAnwar Gaibat Al Numani p.307-308
So the Yamani will take time to gather this amount of great believers because not all Shias will accept the Imam pbuh and there will be a severe trial with the Yamani.

Anyhow,Ahmed AlHasan pbuh said:
"The narration says that the Yamani is the man of the banner or commander of an army and says that if he emerges its obligatory to stand to him or fight with him, so is it conceivable for a person to fight with a commander and he did not pledge allegiance to him before and believe in him?"

"Do you think that they will appear and prepare their armies and fight with many armies during 24 hours for example? Does the mind accept this understanding?" Virtuous servant volume 2 p.47

And this hadeeth proves the point that was made, the Yamani appears before the Sufyani but will make Khorooj(fight him)on the same day.
Imam Al Sadeq a.s:"Before the Sufyani is an Egyptian and a Yamani" Bihar Al Anwar v.52 p.210

 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Anderson said:

@amirhosein_88, wa aleikom salam

yes my fault, page is 137, not 1.

Firstly, you say that its a mistake and fallacy, who from the scholars said that AlJazari made a mistake or is it just you saying that? 

Secondly, in the book Usool Sitat Ashar, the Prophet s.a.w.w  said:Faith is Yaman and I am a Yamani. This is in page 247 .  الإيمان يمان وأنا يماني

So did the Prophet make a mistake by calling himself a Yamani?

Sayeed al-Sadr r.a. made a mistake saying "Yamani" is allegorical meaning and Yamani is from Iraq , Sheikh Sagheer made a mistake that Yamani comes from nowhere else but Iraq ?

So everybody made a mistake, but your claim that Yamani means from Yemen is the truth ? 

 

salamun alaykum.

I answered before:

 

In the same page of Bihar al-anwar, (vol. 57 p. 232), in the narration mentioned before the one you quoted, the Holy Prophet says:

لَوْ لَا الْهِجْرَةُ لَكُنْتُ امْرَأً مِنْ أَهْلِ الْيَمَن‏


which means that the Holy Prophet is not a Yamani.

Besides, the narration you quoted does not have an authentic chain of narration. So you can not say that the Prophet has called himself Yamani since the narration is weak.

The Holy Prophet is a Tahami not a Yamani.

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On 22/6/2016 at 2:02 PM, Mr. Anderson said:

@Rectify

Sayed al-Sadr r.a. also said Yamani a.s. not from Yemen

 

do you believe that if he were alive today, Sayed al-Sadr would be a follower of your leader (May Allah curse and destroy him)?

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Dear All Assalam o alaikum

Though I am new to this forum system of discussion but I used to study a lot about Imam Mehdi atfs. I don't understand why few people are hell bent to prove that Ahmad Hasan is a Hujjat or wasi of Imam Mehdi. I had not read any authentic Hadees which proves that Imam Mehdi will send anyone to the world before the uprising except Nafs e Zakiyya (Pure Soul) whose name is mentioned Ahmad or Mohammad in some books. But this Nafs e Zakiya will be murdered in Haram and Imam Mehdi atfs will appear to solve the problems of the world.

If Ahmad Hasan believes that he is wasi of Imam Mehdi atfs, he must prove it by his own works and words. 

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These people are confused and are so desperate for guidance they are wiling to buy whatever is being sold. I had one of these clowns find me on FB and he kept arguing with me. I basically had to blocking him because he would not stop even when i told him I am a 25  year old college student like I am not someone who can do anything about their little cause. Honestly you have to learn to not give attention to such people.

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