mj1

Is God Unfair?

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Salam All,

i am doubted on some specific issues regarding religions ... I dont know about every religion but most of religions make followers believe that GOD loves his creation..

well here are some points raised by me and I invite not only muslims but people of other religions too to comment on these questions

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion? Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

This post is not made to offend anyone... I am sorry if i used some wrong words but questions are to be asked and i would invite infact I request all of You to answer 

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7 minutes ago, mj1 said:

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that?  

Humans have a thirst for knowledge. That's why science progresses, because we 'need' to know.

If someone doesn't look into their own religion and question it, and try to find the truth, then he's blindly following; which goes against any intelligent being. Intellect is the base of the human creation. That's what sets us apart from other animals.

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4 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Humans have a thirst for knowledge. That's why science progresses, because we 'need' to know.

If someone doesn't look into their own religion and question it, and try to find the truth, then he's blindly following; which goes against any intelligent being. Intellect is the base of the human creation. That's what sets us apart from other animals.

That is truth brother but if is also a fact that a child can not ponder upon things and is brainwashed

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"Brainwashed" as a child. That is by the age of Buloogh is in the mid-teens. It is when a person is a little bit more perceptive to things. That's why you see teenagers starting to rebel at these ages.

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4 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

"Brainwashed" as a child. That is by the age of Buloogh is in the mid-teens. It is when a person is a little bit more perceptive to things. That's why you see teenagers starting to rebel at these ages.

but he is forcibly made believe that if he will rebel he will find the hell and moreover most of us never research into other religions

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1 hour ago, mj1 said:

Salam All,

i am doubted on some specific issues regarding religions ... I dont know about every religion but most of religions make followers believe that GOD loves his creation..

well here are some points raised by me and I invite not only muslims but people of other religions too to comment on these questions

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion? Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

This post is not made to offend anyone... I am sorry if i used some wrong words but questions are to be asked and i would invite infact I request all of You to answer 

Read 'Then I was guided' by Tejani as-samavi. The author was previously of Maliki sect of Ahle tasannuh. And as you said he was constantly brainwashed about shias. However as he visited places with sane mind, met shia scholars, and enquired about various issues, he suspected that somethings not right. He has urge to find the truth and to be guided and hence Allah (swt) helped him in his endeavor. He became follower of shia religion and made others shia too. 

The thing to notice is that God is not unfair, but people are unfair to themselves. 

This is just one example and you will find many as you go through the pages of history and present situation also. 

 

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Yes life is unfair, but God is perfect in justice. We will each be judged according to our knowledge and understanding, and how we dealt with the circumstances we were given.

Ruq, Haji 2003, Kamranistan and 2 others like this

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38 minutes ago, notme said:

Yes life is unfair, but God is perfect in justice. We will each be judged according to our knowledge and understanding, and how we dealt with the circumstances we were given.

Totally agree

Kunz likes this

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Salams, we're all 'brain washed' in some sense culturally (family, community, wider society). Muslims have been/are as affected by culture as anyone else, we don't have some kind on immunity. Your question also seems to suppose that you can entirely extricate religion from culture or culture from religion, which seems clearly untrue to me. The Quran says we're born to different communities to get to know one another, and it follows that this means getting to know ourselves better too. Both Islam and Christianity have a concept of fitra also; i don't know if Christians have a word for it, but im sure somewhere in the NT it says (or implies) people can know God and do right without exposure to scripture/revelation.

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On 6 May 2016 at 3:44 AM, mj1 said:

Salam All,

i am doubted on some specific issues regarding religions ... I dont know about every religion but most of religions make followers believe that GOD loves his creation..

well here are some points raised by me and I invite not only muslims but people of other religions too to comment on these questions

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion? Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

This post is not made to offend anyone... I am sorry if i used some wrong words but questions are to be asked and i would invite infact I request all of You to answer 

Greeting,

Very good and intelligent questions!  

Here are my answers,

1) Is a child brainwashed when he/she is raised in a particular family that adheres to a particular religion?  Answer:  not anymore than if a child is born into a non-religious family that adheres to a different set of ideologies or beliefs. You see, no one is free of belief!  Everyone believes in something!  Even someone like Richard Dawkins has a belief.  But everyone's belief is different.  So would Dawkins be brainwashing his child if he raised him or her as an atheist?  

2) As a Muslim I believe God has established an infinite number of paths that lead to Him!  All paths will eventually arrive at His Mercy and Love.  And this includes the path that someone like Dawkins (for example) has chosen to take.  Some paths however are "quicker" or more "efficient" than others.  The quickest path is the path that emphasizes God's unconditional love and unbounded mercy.  

3) All beliefs will lead to His Mercy and Love.  So whatever the child chooses to follow, he will eventually be saved.  We are all children of God.  And God loves everyone (some of us know this, and others have yet to know about it... But one day we will all come to know of this unconditional and unbounded love).

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL
Kunz and mj1 like this

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Really good answers brother .... 

Made me think alot.. thanks for your help! :)

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On 06/05/2016 at 0:44 PM, mj1 said:

Salam All,

i am doubted on some specific issues regarding religions ... I dont know about every religion but most of religions make followers believe that GOD loves his creation..

well here are some points raised by me and I invite not only muslims but people of other religions too to comment on these questions

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion? Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

This post is not made to offend anyone... I am sorry if i used some wrong words but questions are to be asked and i would invite infact I request all of You to answer 

Answer 1:- Islam has taught us to think constantly and discover our religion. I was a born shia Muslim, when I got discretion and begin to ponder over religious matters, I found my religion to be so flexible and helpful. It taught me that every mankind no matter to whatever religion he or she belongs,  they all have been given opportunity to think and research for truth. It says that like you have eagerness in your mind to verify you religion others have eagerness to verify theirs. So, all have to discover their answers and hold them firm when questions be asked on judgement day. So, it's equality. 

Answer 2:- Every Child is born rightful no matter whatever religion be of his or her parents. God has gifted every couple a child so that they may be just to them. If parents did not search for their truth and led their child astray, the whole sin will be on their shoulders and when a child gets discretion and intelligence, it's his or her responsibility to realise that he or she have to find truth that may lead him or her to goodness and mercy of God.  So, it's matter of responsibility. 

Answer 3:' the biggest resources to a human kind which God has gifted is intellect. So, even if there be thousand hypocrites and only one true preacher,  he or she will know it and if there is none even then common God will subject him to such circumstances that will lead him to true religion

 

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10th-century Syrian poet Abu al- Ala al-Maarri produced the following stanza: 

Mohammed or Messiah! Hear thou me, 
The truth entire nor here nor there can be; 
How should our God who made the sun and the moon 
Give all his light to One, I cannot see. 

Abū Bakr Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi, born 865 CE died  925 CE (Al-Razi) said:  

On what basis do you think it necessary that God should single out certain individuals [with the gift of prophecy], that he should elevate them up above other people, that he should appoint them to be the people's guides, and make people dependent upon them? 

Surely, this is unfair,...

God, to be fair, should make His Revelation Universal. (A mere piffle to an Almighty Being) None of this "chosen people" favouritism.

Why does God have favourites? Why does He need favourites?

What is you opinion on this?

wslm.

*
 

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3 hours ago, Quisant said:

10th-century Syrian poet Abu al- Ala al-Maarri produced the following stanza: 

Mohammed or Messiah! Hear thou me, 
The truth entire nor here nor there can be; 
How should our God who made the sun and the moon 
Give all his light to One, I cannot see. 

Abū Bakr Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi, born 865 CE died  925 CE (Al-Razi) said:  

On what basis do you think it necessary that God should single out certain individuals [with the gift of prophecy], that he should elevate them up above other people, that he should appoint them to be the people's guides, and make people dependent upon them? 

Surely, this is unfair,...

God, to be fair, should make His Revelation Universal. (A mere piffle to an Almighty Being) None of this "chosen people" favouritism.

Why does God have favourites? Why does He need favourites?

What is you opinion on this?

wslm.

*
 

I doubt if it is Zakriya al Razi's statement and if it was his then provide his book's reference and even if you succeed in providing his reference through his book which I think you can't provide then I some other might had inculcated in his books as being his because of two reasons:

1. A mathematician knows that each number has its own significance and none among all the numbers could play the role of another so if it's impossible among numbers to play other's role how could one human fulfil the job like other.  2. If all had been guided alike than there was no need of human beings and angels were sufficient to exist.

3. The thing which you call "unfair" is known to me as "means of knowledge". There is always a different approach of thinking among believers and unbelievers. Firstly, the purpose of creation of human beings was to understand his creator and obtain his nearness for this they were given free will to choose between two things that is to say right and wrong. Wrong leads to that which God dislikes and good that He likes. Secondly, every creation is chosen whether it be Prophets,  humans and animals for their separate purposes. The purpose of Prophet was to teach all living creation ways of life and for that you require credible sources to differentiate between right  and wrong and they must be pure so that their infallibility and credibility be proved. However, this was not the only thing which they have to carry out. They also had to suffer so many problems and were subjected to so many sacrifices for which God have to make them stronger than the mountains. And, if a single human beings be subjected to such duties as Prophets have to do they will either run away or submit to people. So with great knowledge comes great responsibility.  Similarly, normal human beings do not have heavy responsibility as regards to Prophets and are therefore subjected to lower sacrifices. So, it's totally fair and just. Like parents have to feed the child, Prophet's have to feed the soul of believers.  If parents don't feed and child dies responsibility will be upon parent and likewise.  So, what's unfair? :)

 

Edited by Danish14

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On Friday, May 06, 2016 at 9:44 AM, mj1 said:

Salam All,

i am doubted on some specific issues regarding religions ... I dont know about every religion but most of religions make followers believe that GOD loves his creation..

well here are some points raised by me and I invite not only muslims but people of other religions too to comment on these questions

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion? Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

This post is not made to offend anyone... I am sorry if i used some wrong words but questions are to be asked and i would invite infact I request all of You to answer 

1. Unless you teach your child things which are not proven then it is not brainwash.

2. God is testing us, we will be judged based on intentions.

3. A child would believe in a conscious creator whom is not human as some researchers have seen and that everything has a meaning.

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On ۱۳۹۵/۲/۱۷ ه‍.ش. at 0:14 PM, mj1 said:

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion? Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

 

Religion and Cultural determinism

 Does Born to a couple following a specific religion result in idea that parent’s religion is true? Can we say that children who born within specific culture are victims of brainwashing? .We can discuss these type of questions under general title cultural determinism. Cultural determinism is a belief that people are not free to choose what they are like or have they behave, because these things are decided by their surroundings and other things over which they have no control, in other word,   it is a belief that the culture in which we are raised determines who we are at emotional and behavioral levels

The holy Quran shed light on this subject “and when it is said to them follow what God has sent down they say no but we follow such things as we founds our father doing. What? And if their fathers had no understanding of anything, and if they were not guided ? (2-170)  This verse condemn following parents who gone stray and ask people to follow what God has sent down. it means that we are not confined to what we gain from culture within which we grow up, otherwise, it is not rational that God ask us to do what is beyond our power, in addition, this verse stated that blind imitation is not accepted in Islam, this is why the holy Quran encourage people to think about sky, earth and what exist between them because thinking is the only way to free from blind imitation and reach to truth and reality.

Similarly, there is another verse which refuse environmental determinism “and those the angels take, while still they are wrong themselves, the angels will say, in what circumstances were you? They will say we were abased in the earth, the angels will say but was not God’s earth wide, so that you might have immigrated in it?(4-97)  This verse explicitly refuses excuse of those who resort to environmental determinism.

In the same way, historical evidences also shows that both cultural and environmental determinism is not acceptable, because if people had been confined to what they gain from their surroundings, then, social  or cultural revolution would not have taken place down the centuries.  While if we look at historical books, we can find many examples of those who had grown up within a culture, but finally when they came to conclusion, through thinking, that social values which govern over community do not lead to advancement they revolt against that culture. if we say that living within a culture result in brainwashing, then, how we can justify social and cultural revolution . 

 

 

 


 [U1]

Edited by dawudansari2

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On 5/17/2016 at 11:08 AM, Quisant said:

God, to be fair, should make His Revelation Universal. (A mere piffle to an Almighty Being) None of this "chosen people" favouritism.

Why does God have favourites? Why does He need favourites?

What is you opinion on this?

wslm.

 

 

Salam,

It is not favoritism as God sent at least one messenger to every place on Earth.

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On 5/6/2016 at 3:44 AM, mj1 said:

Salam All,

i am doubted on some specific issues regarding religions ... I dont know about every religion but most of religions make followers believe that GOD loves his creation..

well here are some points raised by me and I invite not only muslims but people of other religions too to comment on these questions

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion? Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

This post is not made to offend anyone... I am sorry if i used some wrong words but questions are to be asked and i would invite infact I request all of You to answer 

 

By the way children are not "indoctrinated", I posted a forum on Shia Chat showing that belief in God is innate I have a video citing a study that proves this:

 

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On 17/05/2016 at 8:08 PM, Quisant said:

10th-century Syrian poet Abu al- Ala al-Maarri produced the following stanza: 

Mohammed or Messiah! Hear thou me, 
The truth entire nor here nor there can be; 
How should our God who made the sun and the moon 
Give all his light to One, I cannot see. 

Abū Bakr Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi, born 865 CE died  925 CE (Al-Razi) said:  

On what basis do you think it necessary that God should single out certain individuals [with the gift of prophecy], that he should elevate them up above other people, that he should appoint them to be the people's guides, and make people dependent upon them? 

Surely, this is unfair,...

God, to be fair, should make His Revelation Universal. (A mere piffle to an Almighty Being) None of this "chosen people" favouritism.

Why does God have favourites? Why does He need favourites?

What is you opinion on this?

wslm.

*
 

God likes goodness and hates evil but not his creation. Even if a worshipper worship Him thousands years and then resort to evil thinking that God will forgive his evil, God will not tolerate that and punish him for his reformation.  And even if a wrong doer does many crimes done in ignorance and then repents with devotion then God forgives his all sins. 

God does not need favourites, God is favourite of all coz He is pure and wise.  Every person whether sinner or pious lives on his favors. Such as eating from his created land food, using your intelligence to discover things and make life better. Even then God does not ask sinners to worship for his sake but for theirs that they may obtain his love too.  If you call those who thank God for providing gift of life as favouritism then you are mistaken, He has decided to keep those responsible and people of conscience who knows real humanity engulfed by his mercy for they know ethics and understand wisdom of God. If you consider those who are in hell to be not favourite then you must know that God never helps evil people and for them there is place called hell because they preferred hell to God so God has sent them where the place of evil is and that's eternal humiliation and punishment.

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On 6/5/2016 at 3:26 PM, mj1 said:

I will try to find this book.. Seems interesting

I am finding this book too.

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On 5/6/2016 at 3:44 AM, mj1 said:

Salam All,i am doubted on some specific issues regarding religions

Salam mj1,

To answer the title:

No, God is not unfair. God is God, and His ways are higher than humans' ways and higher than our thinking ability as well. While we don't understand why God allows suffering and horrible things to happen, we don't see the whole picture.

Quote

... I dont know about every religion but most of religions make followers believe that GOD loves his creation..

Yes, God does love His creation. :)
 

Quote

 

well here are some points raised by me and I invite not only muslims but people of other religions too to comment on these questions

Question number 1 : If you are born to a couple following a specific religion you believe that your religion is the truth.. Well, dont you think that a child is brainwashed to believe that? 

 

I was born to a wonderful Christian Mom and Dad. :)

Definitely there are Atheists who think I was brainwashed. I however don't believe so, because I have always asked questions. I chose to be a Christian based on my own personal relationship with God. Nobody forced me to do so. I am free to apostate if I so choose, but I love Jesus Christ with all my heart, mind, and soul!!!

Quote

Question number 2: A child is innocent and obviously God has no Enmity with him/her why is that a specific child is born to a couple following the (so-called) right religion and the other is born to people following so-called false religion?

Paul, who used to persecute Christians before Jesus confronted him, had this to say to the pagan Greeks in Athens:

 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us." - Acts 17:24-27 (NIV)

God decides where each person is born, their appointed time in history, and the boundary of their lands, so they would seek Him. People can seek God from any place and from any religion. God by the way is not a religion, but rather He is relational. Christians believe He is our Father in Heaven; He is relational and wants to be found by people. It's people's own choice whether they will seek Him or not.

Quote

Isnt it where we can say that God is unfair?

I don't think so. God knows all the factors of each person, and He knows if they will seek Him, no matter where and to whom they are born.

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Question number 3 : You guys Obviously believe that your religion is truth well for that i must ask you that if a child an innocent is placed in such area where there is no peer effect nor is there any one who can preach him anything.. He would turn out to be a follower of specific religion? 

That's a great question. It really depends on if he experiences any visions or dreams that lead him to a specific religion.
 

Quote


This post is not made to offend anyone... I am sorry if i used some wrong words but questions are to be asked and i would invite infact I request all of You to answer 

 

I am not offended. They are fair questions :) and I do understand why people ask if God is unfair. When I was a teenager, I did ask a similar question because of all the suffering and pain and evil going on in the world. I asked my Dad, "If God is good, why does He let evil happen?"

My Dad answered along these lines: God doesn't think how you and i think. We are created creatures, not the Creator of life. God is good because He loves people. He loves people who are suffering too. Suffering does not mean a lack of God's love. For example, God allowed the early Christians to suffer persecution and torture and death for Jesus Christ. Does that mean that God did not love them? No. It means that God is seeing the big picture and the rewards He will give to them for suffering for Jesus.

Peace and God bless you

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On 6/5/2016 at 3:26 PM, mj1 said:

I will try to find this book.. Seems interesting

Did you get the book?

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