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A Dialogue on your understanding of - Shirk

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How about worshiping money? Many people do that. 

On 3/26/2016 at 11:26 PM, Enlightened Follower said:

My understanding of Shirk is when we set up idols or blindly follow celebrities and products and deify them

How about worshipping money?  Many people do that. 

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Imam as-Sadiq(‘a) said:

لَيْسَت الْعِبادَةُ كَثرَةُ الصَّلوٰةِ وَ الصَّوْمِ، إِنَّما العِبادَة التَّفَكُّرُ في أَمر اللهِ.

“Worship {‘ibadah} is not excessive praying and fasting. Verily, worship is reflection on the handiwork of Allah.”13
Reflection that makes human beings better acquainted with God has been regarded as an act of worship.

It is stated in a hadith, thus:

رَكْعَتانِ مِنْ عالِمٍ خَيْرٌ مِنْ سَبْعِينَ رَكْعَةً مِنْ جاهِلٍ.

“Two rak‘ahs {cycles or units} of prayer of a scholar {‘alim} are better than seventy rak‘ahs of prayer of an ignorant person {jahil}.”

The Messenger of Allah (S) said: “What is accepted in prayer is that which is performed or recited on the basis of reflection and consciousness.”


It is thus stated in another hadith:

أَلْمُتِعَبِّدُ عَلىٰ غَيْرِ فِقْهٍ كَحِمار الطّاحونةِ.

“He who worships without understanding and discernment is like the donkey of a mill but does not advance.”

http://www.al-islam.org/radiance-secrets-prayer-muhsin-qaraati/worship-%E2%80%98ibadah

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا {64}

[Shakir 4:64] And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.


[Pickthal 4:64] We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah's leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come unto thee and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful.


[Yusufali 4:64] We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Qur'an Surah 4 Verse 64. There is no issue of Shirk-When Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp] among the Muslims.

Most Qur'anic verses of idol worship and other arguments come down to Dead/ Alive issues [some other minor issues /details after this initial Dead/Alive issue] 

There are two Major schools of thought[with some mini schools inside each]

Group [1] Dead- six feet under- History.

Group [2] Alive-

-Existence before appearing in this Physical World/left the material world/earth / True existence continues]-Our limitations we can't physically see the next step.

My understanding is that - people agree that if the Hujjah of Allah[awj][Proof of Allah[awj] is present  among us- As per Qur'an 4:64 . Whatever word is used to describe the activity [Ask/Call upon/Dua/invocation/worship/supplication etc..] No issue of Shirk.

In the absence of the Hujjah of Allah[awj] - Group 1 claim is Shirk.

As a Layman, I want to ask the members, Is my understanding of the issue Correct or am I missing something?

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[Pickthal 19:15] Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

[Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?
[Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hathappointed me a Prophet,
[Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,
[Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.
[Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

*****

What is your understanding of Surah 19, verses 15 & 33. 

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وَقُلِ اعْمَلُوا فَسَيَرَى اللَّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۖ وَسَتُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَالِمِ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ {105}

[Pickthal 9:105] And say (unto them): Act! Allah will behold your actions, and (so will) His messenger and the believers, and ye will be brought back to the Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, and He will tell you what ye used to do.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 9:105]

"Act. Allah sees your deeds, and His messengers, and the believers." Allah sees and knows the hidden and the manifest, the known and the unknown. So also the Holy Prophet is aware of every action-how, when and where it is carried out, in every age, through out the world. He is a witness over all people till the day of resurrection (Nisa: 41, Nahl: 84 and 89). This verse also says that there are some believers who have been entrusted and endowed with the same divine quality to witness the deeds of all men, at all times, in all places. They are those who, like the Holy Prophet, have been thoroughly purified (Ahzab: 33).

Imam Jafar bin Muhammad as Sadiq said:

"Deeds of the believers are witnessed by the Imam of the age. Good deeds give him joy and satisfaction and bad deeds grieve him. Blessed are the believers who please their Imam."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

This verse is in continuation of verse 103. The believers referred to in this verse are those successors mentioned in verse 55 of an Nur.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

Discussed here

http://www.al-islam.org/media/spiritual-struggle-karbala-muharram-1433-part-6

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I as a Layman, with limited Islamic knowledge have come to a conclusion, that this propaganda of Shirk and Kufr against the followers of the Teachers/Master  of Real Tawheed is a form of psychological warfare of the worst kind. As it endangers our brothers and sisters around the world who are been killed.

 

As internet is a faceless environment, and screen names can have many lives and many motives. We should try to ascertain some basic information on the beliefs of the screen name leveling these Serious/Sensitive charges against us. Which the current [Iblis] Satanic  force , [Kufr in the cloak of Islam] ISIS will utilize against us.  If a screen name is presenting his/herself as a Shia Muslim.

 

Test would be to ask the Shirk/Kufr/Worst Sin whatever terminology is given to the act of Iblis. Is the worst form of shirk/kufr/Sin. If so, when Allah[awj] says to obey the Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp]. We see a clear manifestation of hidden shirk/kufr/Worst sin, in the disobedience of the Will of Allah[awj]. Does this person, equally and openly call this as Shirk/kufr/Worst Sin.

 

If not, why are we taking instruction, education from a person, who is either him/herself engaged in the worst Sin, or party to it.


Your thoughts?

 

https://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

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On 5/26/2016 at 8:01 PM, S.M.H.A. said:

I as a Layman, with limited Islamic knowledge have come to a conclusion, that this propaganda of Shirk and Kufr against the followers of the Teachers/Master  of Real Tawheed is a form of psychological warfare of the worst kind. As it endangers our brothers and sisters around the world who are been killed.

 

As internet is a faceless environment, and screen names can have many lives and many motives. We should try to ascertain some basic information on the beliefs of the screen name leveling these Serious/Sensitive charges against us. Which the current [Iblis] Satanic  force , [Kufr in the cloak of Islam] ISIS will utilize against us.  If a screen name is presenting his/herself as a Shia Muslim.

 

Test would be to ask the Shirk/Kufr/Worst Sin whatever terminology is given to the act of Iblis. Is the worst form of shirk/kufr/Sin. If so, when Allah[awj] says to obey the Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp]. We see a clear manifestation of hidden shirk/kufr/Worst sin, in the disobedience of the Will of Allah[awj]. Does this person, equally and openly call this as Shirk/kufr/Worst Sin.

 

If not, why are we taking instruction, education from a person, who is either him/herself engaged in the worst Sin, or party to it.


Your thoughts?

 

https://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

I believe shirk means depending on anything else besides God for something only God can do. For example kissing a lucky object for luck to win money can be considered shirk because you are depending on the object to acquire wealth. The same thing can be applied to anything else you become dependent on besides God.

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You mean, The idol of Obedience of Self, The idol of Pride, The idol of Love, The idol of Family, The idol of Money, The idol of Power, The idol of Influence

Any and All things/activities/thoughts,  if they hinder you from the remembrance of Allah[awj], and take you away from the straight path.

*****

Unless it is a means, by which Allah[awj] brings about a desired result. Shirt is a means or the original source? 

اذْهَبُوا بِقَمِيصِي هَٰذَا فَأَلْقُوهُ عَلَىٰ وَجْهِ أَبِي يَأْتِ بَصِيرًا وَأْتُونِي بِأَهْلِكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ {93}

[Shakir 12:93] Take this my shirt and cast it on my father's face, he will (again) be able to see, and come to me with all your families.
[Pickthal 12:93] Go with this shirt of mine and lay it on my father's face, he will become (again) a seer; and come to me with all your folk.
[Yusufali 12:93] "Go with this my shirt, and cast it over the face of my father: he will come to see (clearly). Then come ye (here) to me together with all your family."

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إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ اذْكُرْ نِعْمَتِي عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَىٰ وَالِدَتِكَ إِذْ أَيَّدْتُكَ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ تُكَلِّمُ النَّاسَ فِي الْمَهْدِ وَكَهْلًا ۖ وَإِذْ عَلَّمْتُكَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنْجِيلَ ۖ وَإِذْ تَخْلُقُ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ بِإِذْنِي فَتَنْفُخُ فِيهَا فَتَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَتُبْرِئُ الْأَكْمَهَ وَالْأَبْرَصَ بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَإِذْ تُخْرِجُ الْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَإِذْ كَفَفْتُ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ عَنْكَ إِذْ جِئْتَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ فَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ إِنْ هَٰذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ {110}

[Shakir 5:110] When Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said: This is nothing but clear enchantment.
[Pickthal 5:110] When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic;
[Yusufali 5:110] Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

*****

["Abul Hasan Ali b. Ahmad al-Dallal al-Qummi narrates: ‘Among the Shias there was a difference of opinion on whether Allah has delegated creation and distribution of sustenance to the Imams (a.s.).

One group argued that this is impossible because no one can create the bodies except Allah, while the other group believed that Allah has delegated the power of creation and distribution of sustenance to the Imams (a.s.) and therefore they can create and provide sustenance. This disparity intensified with every passing day.

Finally someone suggested: ‘Why don’t you refer the matter to Abu Ja’far Muhammad b. ‘Uthman Amri (r.a.) so that he clarifies the truth for you? He is the representative of Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.).’ Everybody agreed. The query was written and delivered to Muhammad b. ‘Uthman (r.a.). He referred the matter to Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.).

In reply, he received a Tawqee wherein Imam (a.t.f.s.) had written:

Undoubtedly only Allah creates the bodies and distributes the sustenance. He neither has a body nor does He assume any form and there is none like Him. He is the All-Hearing and All-Knowing and the infallible Imams (a.s.) seek from Him and He Himself creates. They request Him and He accepts their request and to honour and elevate them He delegates to them the power to create and sustain."]

https://www.al-islam.org/special-deputies-association-imam-al-mahdi/second-special-deputy-muhammad-b-‘uthman-b-sa’eed-amri-ra

*****

The issue of delegation and creation, comes up a lot. It maybe there's some confusion among the Shia’s, like the Shia’s of the past as mentioned above. We can’t effectively answer this question to other Muslims, if we are not clear and still confused /divided.

Maybe there is a conceptual or terminology issue or some mixed variation of it. That leads to misunderstanding.

Kindly, review material provided and provide Authentic Traditions[ English. Sources/links] to clarify any misunderstanding.

Layman.

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In reference to the last post, Some additional information was posted here, by members.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235039326-wilayah-takwiniyah/

 

*****
Qur'an 13:16

“Say: Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth? Say: Allah. Say: Do you take then besides Him guardians who do not control any profit or harm for themselves? Say: Are the blind and the seeing alike? Or can the darkness and the light be equal? Or have they set up with Allah associates who have created creation like His, so that what is created became confused to them? Say: Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the One, the Supreme.”

This Verse is used against us, Allamah Muhammad Tabatabai, explains it in detail. 
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235039326-wilayah-takwiniyah/?page=3#comment-2929773

 

 

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Correct me if my Layman understanding is wrong.

In the beginning some people said verbal Shahada(Testified to the faith) for various reason(s), They believed in many gods, so if you can not beat them join them mentality prevailed, especially after the conquest of Mecca.

They looked at Islam as a political force, and joined it. All they had to do is to verbally (superficially) say their is one God. They never intend to acknowledge the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him and his progeny). We know that there were various occasions, where Qur’an informs us of hypocrites. And a constant theme is to Obey the Messenger, to take what he gives you, come to him for forgiveness. This was a Test to expose them, Like Iblis was exposed, Iblis was a worshiper but his hypocrisy was exposed.

Islam was later hijacked, and these elements went on paying lip service while they did their best  to undermine the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny) and Ahlul Bayt(as).

“Shirk” (grave worship/partners/invocations, attack on Wilayat of Amir al-Muminin(Commander of the Faithful), Imam al-Muttaqeen(Leader of the Pious), Hujjah of Allah(awj)(Proof of Allah(awj), Mawla Ali ibn Abi Talib(as). Through innovative techniques etc…)is a  weapon used by them today to create doubts , to continue their evil plan of separating the Prophet  Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny) and Ahlul bayt(as) from Islam. Only God is their slogan, which fools the lay people, but their God is not the Lord of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny) and Ahlul Bayt(as). So, they continue to put forward their version of the political Islam(government) and govern as they please and manipulate the verses in the book to justify it. The message is been corrupted and the humans in this world are been driven away from the Message due to their vicious action(s) around the world.


Your thoughts?

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Few Concepts that need to be clear before we can even start talking about Shirk/Bidah/Worship 

1) Need to understand a very important point.

imam- to a non Shia of Ali(as) usually mean their 4 Jurists- four Sunni schools(Islamic jurisprudence) (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali). or A Friday prayer leader.

*****

2) What is his/her understanding of the Mawla

وَإِذْ أَخَذَ اللَّهُ مِيثَاقَ النَّبِيِّينَ لَمَا آتَيْتُكُمْ مِنْ كِتَابٍ وَحِكْمَةٍ ثُمَّ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولٌ مُصَدِّقٌ لِمَا مَعَكُمْ لَتُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهِ وَلَتَنْصُرُنَّهُ ۚ قَالَ أَأَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَخَذْتُمْ عَلَىٰ ذَٰلِكُمْ إِصْرِي ۖ قَالُوا أَقْرَرْنَا ۚ قَالَ فَاشْهَدُوا وَأَنَا مَعَكُمْ مِنَ الشَّاهِدِينَ {81}

[Shakir 3:81] And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.
[Pickthal 3:81] When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.
[Yusufali 3:81] Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

*****

مَا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ وَلَٰكِنْ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا {40}

[Shakir 33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
[Pickthal 33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
[Yusufali 33:40] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

*****

Relevant part of the Verse:

النَّبِيُّ أَوْلَىٰ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَأَزْوَاجُهُ أُمَّهَاتُهُمْ ۗ }

[Shakir 33:6] The Prophet has a greater claim on the faithful than they have on themselves, .....
[Yusufali 33:6] The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, .......

[Yusufali 33:6] The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, 

*****

At Ghadir Khumm, 

"Then the Messenger of Allah continued: 

"Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?"  

People cried and answered: 

"Yes, O' Messenger of God."

Then followed the key sentence denoting the clear designation of 'Ali as the leader of the Muslim ummah.  The Prophet held up the hand of 'Ali and said: 

"For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla)."

https://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/incident.htm

At Ghadir Khum, Question was asked(33:6), Muslims Answered. Seal of the Prophets, and the Witness over ALL Prophets( 3:81).

Mawla here means what? 

Does this mean, Mawla only in delivering revelation?

What does More right over the Believers( All Past Prophets and believers present at Ghadir Khumm).

Now the question is What is his/he understanding of the Mawla ? 

1) Messenger, only in Delivering Revelation. Rest, only a human like us, others an have better judgement,  opinions in leadership,preserving Quran, etc..

2) Messenger, but Book of Allah(awj)  is sufficient for us

3) Mawla in All comprehensive and Complete sense. (Prophet/Messenger/Imam-Khaliftullah Vicegerent of Allah(awj) without limitation of time and space - All my affairs- as Islam is the same as our Nature, as its a Way of life not only a personal relationship with  Allah(awj). 

*****

3)

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235049482-tawassul-and-istigatha/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-3049559

 

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As salaamun aleikum, 

A recent event happened that a very knowledgeable and respected sister (I will refer to her as Sister X) explained to me as being a type of shirk.

A young girl was being tutored in the Islamic way by Sister X. She was being taught akham, aklaq, etc. After some time of being tutored and learning many practical dos and donts of our religion, the young girl comes to her tutoring session and begins to share a recent experience she had had at a sleepover.

She explains that another little girl had brought 2 kittens to the sleepover and everyone there had fun playing with the kittens, however, when salaat time approached and the girls were called to  make wudhu and pray, all the little girls were covered in cat hair-not just a few hairs here and there, which acording to some marja is acceptable, but covered in hair.

The little girl explained to the mother in charge of the sleepover that Sister X. taught her that praying with cat hair invalidates the salaat, to which the mother responded: "Well, Sister X is too religious"... Too religious? These are the rules of our religion, extrapolated from the Holy Quran and ahadith of the chosen Messenger of Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى  How is someone "too religious" if they are merely passing on the information of our religion? As muslims, our responsibility is to move forward and progress in our Islam, not to become content and complacent with where we are in our practice. 

Anyhow,

When someone makes there own understanding equal to and on par with Allahsسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, this is a form of shirk. As if we are able to determine what is good, bad or acceptable on our own..Many of us have seen where humans end up when we do such a thing. As Muslims, we SUBMIT ourselves to Allahسُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and His program for our lives.

Of course, there are many ways of comitting shirk, but this is one of the more hidden ways that is not overtly obvious, and many people will not think and reflect on their behavior to realize this is what they are doing.

And just a small note here since i have described a very specific occurence, in the event that any of the people involved in the sleepover happen to read this, rest assured i do not know your identity nor the identity of the children involved. Sister X would never divulge such information to me as that would be a breach of trust and backbiting, but if she is able to anonymously  use such an event as a means of teaching, it should be used for good as a teaching point, and  in sha Allah, it will help to educate people, such as it has me.

W/s

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