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Ali-F

The fasad in Iran

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On 12/29/2015 at 4:30 PM, Zaydsservant said:

I cannot agree with the enforcing of religion in Iran but I must respect the country. Each person has their own way of interpreting the Sharia.. the enforcing of religion will only cause harm to Islam. :/

The Prophet, sallallahu 'alaihi wa aalihi, and Imam 'Ali, 'alaihi as-salam, both enforced religion. Are you really sure they were wrong to have done that?

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7 hours ago, magma said:

Building religiosity of a society is analogous but more involving than building it within an individual. Just like sustaining a single cell vs an entire complex living organism.

The goal of any wise social engineer is not expecting complete conformity or complete submission, especially forcibly against human nature. The Khmer Rouge comes to mind.

You don't expect perfection, but simply an inclination towards it. To create a better environment, and make small progresses when possible, rate limiting steps notwithstanding. It's a gradient, using tools to improve lives using certain principles. The goal has never been to create 100% proper hijabis by heart immediately, but simply to make it more acceptable to be one and to redirect the compass of society. Individuals still have to do their own part internally within themselves. It's a partnership, not a one sided spiritual welfare state.

The system is not designed or intended as an "all or nothing" proposition from the get-go, so it shouldn't be analyzed and evaluated that way.

Perfect analysis.

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A lot of people say the rule of Hijaab backfired. I mean religious people. The thing is there is no going back now. You take off the rule, and you open a Pandora's box.  People then will always be pushing the limit of decency/indecency that is allowed. 

However I do believe in hindsight, it was better if Hijaab was never enforced. I feel more people would wear it fully and there would less of this issue over it.

But do I think the rule should be taken off now? I definitely thinking it shouldn't.  Or unless you are ready to brace for impact.

 

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5 hours ago, StrugglingForTheLight said:

However I do believe in hindsight, it was better if Hijaab was never enforced. I feel more people would wear it fully and there would less of this issue over it.

I never understood this logic. If 99% of a country is Muslim, with a history of hijab being present for a millennia, who exactly is making an issue about this other than the airwaves of a vocal minority? Are we saying if it wasn't "enforced" then most people within their cultural/religious sphere would choose not to wear it? This is not some foreign, unfamiliar, imported concept brought over in just 30 years. Also you wonder how much "enforcement" can really take place. People give this "totalitarian fashion police" image when its usually far from that.

I think people who live in Western society try to extrapolate their experience to other nations. If something world never "work" in the US or UK, then I guess it can't work anywhere else.

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13 hours ago, magma said:

I never understood this logic. If 99% of a country is Muslim, with a history of hijab being present for a millennia, who exactly is making an issue about this other than the airwaves of a vocal minority? Are we saying if it wasn't "enforced" then most people within their cultural/religious sphere would choose not to wear it? This is not some foreign, unfamiliar, imported concept brought over in just 30 years. Also you wonder how much "enforcement" can really take place. People give this "totalitarian fashion police" image when its usually far from that.

I think people who live in Western society try to extrapolate their experience to other nations. If something world never "work" in the US or UK, then I guess it can't work anywhere else.

Historically, like during Safavid and Qajar times, the hijab and niqab popular today in the Muslim world, were worn in Iran by urban women and not by rural women and peasants (the majority before the 1960s) who had their own unique form of dress, some covering the face, some not. Women working the fields in the heat tend to stay away from black niqabs and the like.

Secondly for those city women, the only culture they were ever exposed to was the Shi'a Islam of their neighborhood. They had no exposure to anything else and so didn't know any other way to dress or act. People today are presented with more options and some choose one over the other one, even if it's been around for 1000 years.

 

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On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Irfani313 said:

Dear brother Ali-F:

It is the job of those who are among the haters to spread hopelessness. If you google Iran, all you find is negativity and only negativity, of women with half head scarves, men looking for dates, some destitute complainers, and all such things showing how decadent the society has become from with in. Even the good reports (of young iranian entrepreneurs, of scientists, of students making breakthroughs), only those get media attention who have shabby hijabs or low religious tendencies.

On the other hand, the other 70 million or so Iranians are completely ignored in those representations, the everyday worker Iranian, the college going middle class Iranian, the couple working to end meet Iranian, the thronging the juma' salat tehran university Iranian and so on; if you make note of the pattern of willful ignorance, its all too obvious to see.

This is called giving a country, a nation, or a group of people a certain kind of "press".  Don't let these things bother you. Iranians were devout Shia when they were among the most oppressed people on the face of the earth. Now that they are emerging as a major mover and shaker of the globe, why would they abandon their faith? Its like expecting Iranians to peel their skins away with their own nails, impossible right? This is how hard it is to take Shia Islam out of anyone who has accepted the faith of the Prophet and his Ahlulbayt (salam on all of them).      

Wow I cant likE this sentence enough.iThis should be what I

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On December 28, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Ali-F said:

I'm currently watching a program on Iran. Two foreign people from Europe travelled to Iran, and they met the people and so on.

What kept my attention was that:

1. Many people wore the headscarf, but in a very, very fashionable way, like, you could say that it was better for them to just take the scarf off.

2. Many young people in Iran  (or those who I saw) don't respect religion. People do haraam meetings, and so on. 

Why is it this way? Is Iran moving into a phase where many young people are turning away from the Islamic Republic?

And?

Islamic Republic I assume you would want is like ISIS?

"People doing Haram meetings". Like what you want the government to put hidden cameras in peoples houses?

Lets be realistic in life here.

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On Monday, January 04, 2016 at 2:00 PM, magma said:

I never understood this logic. If 99% of a country is Muslim, with a history of hijab being present for a millennia, who exactly is making an issue about this other than the airwaves of a vocal minority? Are we saying if it wasn't "enforced" then most people within their cultural/religious sphere would choose not to wear it? This is not some foreign, unfamiliar, imported concept brought over in just 30 years. Also you wonder how much "enforcement" can really take place. People give this "totalitarian fashion police" image when its usually far from that.

I think people who live in Western society try to extrapolate their experience to other nations. If something world never "work" in the US or UK, then I guess it can't work anywhere else.

Because of this hijab policy many iranian women hâte hijab and no iran is not à 99% muslim country .

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(salam)

Brother أبو فاطمة المحمدي, I didn't mean to offend you

On 1/4/2016 at 10:15 AM, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

The Prophet, sallallahu 'alaihi wa aalihi, and Imam 'Ali, 'alaihi as-salam, both enforced religion. Are you really sure they were wrong to have done that?



This is true but they didn't actually slap the religion on people like tyrants from what I understand.. (Again, I am not trying to sound mean or disrespectful, believe me.)
Abu Bakr al-Baghadi FORCED his religion upon the people of wherever he conquered. And he continues to do so..

I am aware that Iran is not takfir and Iran is perhaps the major driving force that is fighting the takfir. 
But regarding the way religion is interpreted (and hence enforced), I find that this contradicts the verse in the Quran which clearly says that religion should not be forced.

I mean.. take a look at contemporary Iran. And let's take a look at the history of the Fatimid caliphate.. 
Iran seems to be a bit too harsh in its way of enforcing religion, especially with forced veiling. And the Fatimid caliphate? It had certain problems in its army and perhaps more in its politics, but I would definitely like to live under such a caliphate where I'd have more dignity than in most countries of the world..

Further let's not forget that Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and Ayatollah Taleghani both had very opposing views. (This does not mean that I do not admire Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, though of course I do not agree with his views..)

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/02/iran-rise-hiv

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/iran-sex-change-operation_n_1568604.html

 

The exact number of prostitutes working in Iran is unknown. However, prostitutes are visible on some street corners of the major cities. Many of them are runaways from poor and broken homes. [1][2] In 2002, the Iranian newspaperEntekhab estimated that there were close to 85,000 prostitutes in Tehran alone.[3] Prostitution is rampant in Tehran; "the streets are full of working girls ... part of the landscape, blending in with everything else."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Iran

 

Drug trafficking is a major and ongoing problem in Iran. Iran is a key transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin to Europe. It shares a 975 kilometer common border with Afghanistan-the world's largest opium producer-which provides a short land route for drug transit between Afghanistan and Europe.[1] With 2.8 percent of the population addicted to drugs, Iran has the highest drug addiction rate in the world.[2] 40% of prisoners in Iran have been convicted on drug related charges.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Iran

 

 

 

Ahhh Iran the land of Fasad. 

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8 hours ago, Zaydsservant said:

(salam)

Brother أبو فاطمة المحمدي, I didn't mean to offend you



This is true but they didn't actually slap the religion on people like tyrants from what I understand.. (Again, I am not trying to sound mean or disrespectful, believe me.)

You do not seem to get it. The Prophet and Imam 'Ali strictly enforced the religion. And when Imam al-Hujjah (ajfs) reappears, he too will strictly enforce Islam.

If you think enforcing the religion is tyranny, then you are accusing the Prophet and Imam 'Ali of tyranny.

4 hours ago, Umayyad said:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/02/iran-rise-hiv

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/iran-sex-change-operation_n_1568604.html

The exact number of prostitutes working in Iran is unknown. However, prostitutes are visible on some street corners of the major cities. Many of them are runaways from poor and broken homes. [1][2] In 2002, the Iranian newspaperEntekhab estimated that there were close to 85,000 prostitutes in Tehran alone.[3] Prostitution is rampant in Tehran; "the streets are full of working girls ... part of the landscape, blending in with everything else."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Iran

Drug trafficking is a major and ongoing problem in Iran. Iran is a key transshipment point for Southwest Asian heroin to Europe. It shares a 975 kilometer common border with Afghanistan-the world's largest opium producer-which provides a short land route for drug transit between Afghanistan and Europe.[1] With 2.8 percent of the population addicted to drugs, Iran has the highest drug addiction rate in the world.[2] 40% of prisoners in Iran have been convicted on drug related charges.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Iran

Ahhh Iran the land of Fasad. 

Considering that your nick is "Umayyad" and your major sources are the Islamophobic news outlets and unreliable Wikipedia, I am not surprised by your folly.

Anyway, there is no Islamic state which is empty of criminals and sinners - like drunkards and fornicators. Even when the Prophet was the ruler over Arabia, many of the Sahabah were drunkards and adulterers. Does that make the government of the Prophet "a land of fasad"? I bet you have never read the history of 'Umar's rule, and how alcoholism and other vices became widespread, despite his brutality. In particular, one of the prominent Sahabah, Samrah bin Jundub, was famously an alcohol trader. What will you call him?

And, have you looked at the history of the Umayyads? I guess the Umayyad caliphs were the examples of purity and piety to you. Are they not? Otherwise, you would not have been so proud of them as to  carry their name. I advise that you double-check the "pure" and "pious" history of your Umayyad state. And, look at Saudi Arabia too. The corruption there is even strongest in the ruling royal family. As it is jokingly said, they are strong on the Dark Side.

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12 hours ago, أبو فاطمة المحمدي said:

You do not seem to get it. The Prophet and Imam 'Ali strictly enforced the religion. And when Imam al-Hujjah (ajfs) reappears, he too will strictly enforce Islam.

If you think enforcing the religion is tyranny, then you are accusing the Prophet and Imam 'Ali of tyranny.

Considering that your nick is "Umayyad" and your major sources are the Islamophobic news outlets and unreliable Wikipedia, I am not surprised by your folly.

Anyway, there is no Islamic state which is empty of criminals and sinners - like drunkards and fornicators. Even when the Prophet was the ruler over Arabia, many of the Sahabah were drunkards and adulterers. Does that make the government of the Prophet "a land of fasad"? I bet you have never read the history of 'Umar's rule, and how alcoholism and other vices became widespread, despite his brutality. In particular, one of the prominent Sahabah, Samrah bin Jundub, was famously an alcohol trader. What will you call him?

And, have you looked at the history of the Umayyads? I guess the Umayyad caliphs were the examples of purity and piety to you. Are they not? Otherwise, you would not have been so proud of them as to  carry their name. I advise that you double-check the "pure" and "pious" history of your Umayyad state. And, look at Saudi Arabia too. The corruption there is even strongest in the ruling royal family. As it is jokingly said, they are strong on the Dark Side.

Seems all the rafidas on this forum are the same, they are unable to reply so they go and cry about the companions. The Prophet didnt fund transexuals like Iran is doing, the streets were not filled with prostitutes like Tehran is. Iran is nothing but a land of hookers, transexuals and skiing :grin:. No wonder all the iranians who come to europe become atheist. 

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7 hours ago, Umayyad said:

Seems all the rafidas on this forum are the same, they are unable to reply so they go and cry about the companions. The Prophet didnt fund transexuals like Iran is doing, the streets were not filled with prostitutes like Tehran is. Iran is nothing but a land of hookers, transexuals and skiing :grin:. No wonder all the iranians who come to europe become atheist. 

Lel, why so salty about Iran? And the generalization speaks plenty of your silly indoctrination. Prostitution is plenty in the Middle East and around the world so are trannies. What's your point? All Iranians who come to Europe become Atheists? What statistics does that come from? Yeah, looks like your petty Ummayad empire nonsense has buried itself in the deep dark corners of your mind. It's no wonder you get the same answers from the people on this forum. If you spew bs, you will get bs in return. That being said, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Saudi_Arabia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/1660406.stm

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/saudi_arabia_executes_people_over_drugs_while_its_princes_are_caught_with_tons_of_drugs_at_the_airport/

Good readings. Google helps!

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43 minutes ago, OnelifeliveIt said:

Lel, why so salty about Iran? And the generalization speaks plenty of your silly indoctrination. Prostitution is plenty in the Middle East and around the world so are trannies. What's your point? All Iranians who come to Europe become Atheists? What statistics does that come from? Yeah, looks like your petty Ummayad empire nonsense has buried itself in the deep dark corners of your mind. It's no wonder you get the same answers from the people on this forum. If you spew bs, you will get bs in return. That being said, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Saudi_Arabia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/1660406.stm

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/saudi_arabia_executes_people_over_drugs_while_its_princes_are_caught_with_tons_of_drugs_at_the_airport/

Good readings. Google helps!

Onelife sees Iran is getting attacked. Googles Saudia Arabia Prostitution. Copy/Pastes without comparing the number.  Goes to show you are not interested in truth and all you are in interested in is "muh shiism" and the only way to feel good about it is by either crying about the companions or KSA :grin:. It must be a downer to feel as inauthentic as you do. Best not to feed you anymore. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Umayyad said:

Onelife sees Iran is getting attacked. Googles Saudia Arabia Prostitution. Copy/Pastes without comparing the number.  Goes to show you are not interested in truth and all you are in interested in is "muh shiism" and the only way to feel good about it is by either crying about the companions or KSA :grin:. It must be a downer to feel as inauthentic as you do. Best not to feed you anymore. 

 

 

I was only doing what you did. The point is, so what? You brought Iran I brought other countries. And I'm not denying that Iran doesn't have these issues. Then you bring numbers. The problem is, you only accept what fits your perspective. Tough luck buttercup, looks like the Umayyad takes the fall again.

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