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Arm Bangles For Karbala A Bidah?

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salam

 

you may know the bracelets especially worn by many pakistanis and indians?

i know they want to feel the tragedy of sajjad and the prisoned women who were hand cuffs right?

but is there a proof we are allow to feel their pain 
 

any hadith that this tradition is from the sunnah?
 

 

thanks! :)

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salam

 

you may know the bracelets especially worn by many pakistanis and indians?

i know they want to feel the tragedy of sajjad and the prisoned women who were hand cuffs right?

but is there a proof we are allow to feel their pain 

 

any hadith that this tradition is from the sunnah?

 

 

thanks! :)

It's more of a prayer bracelet than anything.

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Assalām wa `Alaykum

This is a bid`ah, there is no hadīth or sunnah. It is purely imported from Sikhism, it is called the "Kara", it is part of the Five Ks of Sikhism. This has been a vital part of being initiated into Sikhism since the 17th century.

The Shias of Pakistan and India just took it from them, because it looks cool and then put a "Shia twist" to it, claiming it is to remember Imam Zayn al-Abideen and the captives of Karbala. There is a reason why this practice is only found in Pakistan and India, and not in other Muslim lands. Some people add Qur'ān and other Arabic to the bracelet to make it more "shia-fied", but that doesn't the the origin of the practice.

We have so many authentic traditions and sunnahs that are neglected by our Shias, why cling to things that have no foundations in our books?

Wa `Alaykum Assalām

Edited by Nader Zaveri

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its interesting. if such a practice doesnt exist that to many do it

so no hadith states that we can act the tragedy of karbala or feel what imam felt?

a brother argued that it fall under "jaza" you may know more about it?

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Salaam.

 

I wear one just for the purpose that it has ayat kursi written on it. However mine doesnt look like the karra which the sikh wear.

 

But with all other muslim accesories being made, I don't see the harm in wearing it. Aslong as you know its not sunnah. The only benefit could be if a dua is written on it.

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In islam all things are allowed unless they are specifically forbidden. If one chooses to wear a kara so that, by looking at it, he is constantly reminded of karbala, and as we all know remembering karbala has great rewards, then how can this be a bad thing?

It only crosses into bid'a if one believes that the Masumeen (as) themselves wore one, or told us to wear one. Since no one thinks this, it is in no way a bida.

It probably did come from the sikh, so what? We do not wear it with the same intention as the sikh, and it is a lovely way to remember karbala, and a way for shia to recognise other shia.

If you think wearing kara gives islam a bad impression, then, in the words of the dude, "thats just like, your opinion man".

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i heard many opinions and am confused but thanks for answering

Salam,

 

If it is for decorative purpose it is ok, but if it for protection purpose no.

 

The dua on you bracelet will not help, and protect you, But reciting the last two Surahs would, if God wills.

 

Also, if it is for decorative purpose and have Quran ayas written on it,

 

it is best avoid wearing ornaments with Quran ayas written on it.

 

If people read the Quran, and tried to understand their religion,

 

instead of making it into jewelry pieces, much ignorance in society could have been prevented.

 

Wasalam,

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Salam,

 

If it is for decorative purpose it is ok, but if it for protection purpose no.

 

The dua on you bracelet will not help, and protect you, But reciting the last two Surahs would, if God wills.

This is simply not true. there are multiple hadith where we are told that having the names of the masumeen (as) or Allah on us provides us protection, for example engraved onto our rings.

Also, if it is for decorative purpose and have Quran ayas written on it,

 

it is best avoid wearing ornaments with Quran ayas written on it.

this is true - if one has the name of a masum/ quran, then they must be in wudhu at all times and in paak places.

 

If people read the Quran, and tried to understand their religion,

 

instead of making it into jewelry pieces, much ignorance in society could have been prevented.

 

Wasalam,

the problems of our society wont be fixed even a fraction by people not wearing kara. If they want to wear it, then let them wear it. it does not affect you n literally even one single way.

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no wait, nader could possibly be right, even at a majlis i had gotten a gold bracelet, when i asked my mom what it was for she said something good must come out of it,and i assumed that the bracelet was like a taweez, if it is true that the bracelet used for this purpose is bidah then it shouldnt be allowed, and should be said by scholars in other majlises to be stopped, however if perhaps the bracelet is only a reminder of the handcuffs in karbala and that is no haram then i dont see why it cant be allowed, but i feel sistani.org or any other marja'a could be able to answer this correctly.

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no wait, nader could possibly be right, even at a majlis i had gotten a gold bracelet, when i asked my mom what it was for she said something good must come out of it,and i assumed that the bracelet was like a taweez, if it is true that the bracelet used for this purpose is bidah then it shouldnt be allowed, and should be said by scholars in other majlises to be stopped, however if perhaps the bracelet is only a reminder of the handcuffs in karbala and that is no haram then i dont see why it cant be allowed, but i feel sistani.org or any other marja'a could be able to answer this correctly.

Salam,

 

The problem is not the reminder. The issue is if people wear it thinking this would protect them from evil.

 

This is simply not true. there are multiple hadith where we are told that having the names of the masumeen  (as) or Allah on us provides us protection, for example engraved onto our rings.

We have been told alot of things.The last two verses  were given to the prophet for protection, not a ring or anything. 

There are plenty of muslim thieves who wear rings with Engraved duas on it while stealing. 

Leave alone jewelry engraved with duas, if our prayers do not protect us from evil acts, definitely a ring engraved with Duas cannot.

 

this is true - if one has the name of a masoom/ quran, then they must be in wudhu at all times and in paak places.

 

Bottom line as you said why risk, wearing ornaments with duas/quran ayas when you have to keep taking them out, and doubting if you are clean or not.

the problems of our society wont be fixed even a fraction by people not wearing kara. If they want to wear it, then let them wear it. it does not affect you n literally even one single way.

 

Wearing Kara or not is not the point, you can wear anything as long as the jewelry is not exposed to non mahram, for woman.

 

But wearing it for the sake of protection, no.

 

lots of the duas can be also used for black magic, and people keep wearing them, thinking they are protected.

 

Best just to stick to reciting the verses for protection.

 

These are not my personal opinions, but what I have learnt from my teacher.

Edited by tendersoul

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I received a gift from a friend's sister that is a necklace pendent with a message from the Qur'an inscribed. Due to my forgetful/inconsistent nature, I forget that I am wearing it, and may accidentally go to the bathroom with it! That is why I do not wear it anymore, I am too stupid to remember I have it on.

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Salam,

Walaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu :)

 

The problem is not the reminder. The issue is if people wear it thinking this would protect them from evil.

I guess this is a question of different beliefs then. Personally I believe even saying the name of a Masum (as) gives us help through their waseelah, I believe having their names written on paper can act as a taweez against certain types of harm, I believe engraving their names on rings or other jewellery also provides us with some protection.

 

We have been told alot of things.The last two verses  were given to the prophet for protection, not a ring or anything. 

There are plenty of muslim thieves who wear rings with Engraved duas on it while stealing. 

Leave alone jewelry engraved with duas, if our prayers do not protect us from evil acts, definitely a ring engraved with Duas cannot.

no one is claiming that wearing engraved rings/ jewellery makes one masum brother - all of us sin. some sin in major ways and some in minor ways. if those who wear engraved jewellery (such as rings or kara) sin

 this is obviously not proof that no one should wear any engraved jewellery ever.

 

Bottom line as you said why risk, wearing ornaments with duas/quran ayas when you have to keep taking them out, and doubting if you are clean or not.

because we love the names, and love what the names mean.

 

Wearing Kara or not is not the point, you can wear anything as long as the jewelry is not exposed to non mahram, for woman.

 

But wearing it for the sake of protection, no.

 

lots of the duas can be also used for black magic, and people keep wearing them, thinking they are protected.

 

Best just to stick to reciting the verses for protection.

see my previous point.

We have veered widely off topic here. the original question was are kara a bid'ah. the answer is no because nobody believes that the Masum (as) either wore them, nor instructed us to wear them. they are a beautiful cultural act which allows one to constantly remember the suffering of the ahlulbayt (as) . whether they are engraved or not is really not central to this discussion in any way

Edited by DigitalUmmah

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Walaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu :) they are a beautiful cultural act which allows one to constantly remember the suffering of the ahlulbayt (as) . whether they are engraved or not is really not central to this discussion in any way

Salam,

 

Well said, cultural acts to remind. I did mention it is not the issue of a reminder.

Anything that truly reminds you of Allah, or those who Allah loves is good.

 

But seeking protection by wearing it is not the most sensible thing.

 

How many people actually remember Allah, and Ahlulbayt while wearing it, is another topic.

Edited by tendersoul

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but what is it when i wear them as form of matam?
as form of feeling the tragedy of imam sajjad?
 

is such way of mourning permissible?

because my question was with not the attention to wear beautiful bangles but more to wear iron cuffs or ropes to feel tragedy of karbala a bit

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Guys we are going in circles now.

 

Once again, the original question was "are kara a bid'a". the answer is no because the Masumeen (as) neither wore them nor instructed us to wear them, and there is nobody on earth who wears them, that thinks otherwise. If anyone thought wearing a kara was a part of their faith, THEN it would become a bid'a. but there isnt (I hope), so its not.

 

our personal feelings or opinions are not relevant to this question.

 

but what is it when i wear them as form of matam?
as form of feeling the tragedy of imam sajjad?
 

is such way of mourning permissible?

because my question was with not the attention to wear beautiful bangles but more to wear iron cuffs or ropes to feel tragedy of karbala a bit

 

The Masumeen (as) left very little specifics of how to perform mourning - its up to the individual, their culture and their environment - so long as it does not go against the sharia.

 

wearing a kara - a bracelet - is obviously not going against sharia. so it is clearly permissable.

 

 

Salam,

 

Well said, cultural acts to remind. I did mention it is not the issue of a reminder.

Anything that truly reminds you of Allah, or those who Allah loves is good.

 

But seeking protection by wearing it is not the most sensible thing.

 

How many people actually remember Allah, and Ahlulbayt while wearing it, is another topic.

 

re: the first line highlighted in red

 

thats your opinion brother, and our opinions doesnt matter in issues of fiqh. it does not break any laws of sharia, so is allowed.

 

your entire argument has now come to "there are people who engrave the names of masumeen or duas or quranic ayahs on their kara and this is wrong". Can I just remind you, once again, that in our fiqh, we ARE allowed to have these things on our person, so there is no sharia being broken.

 

you are arguing against kara because you do not like them. sharia says wearing silver jewellery is ok for men. sharia says having holy words on our person is ok (so long as they are given the proper respect). thirdly we do have hadith that certain holy words DO provide us protection - again whether you agree with this or like this or not, its just a simple, plain, obvious fact.

 

re: the second line highlighted in red

 

thats none of your business, none of my business, none of anyones business, nothing to do with this thread and I suggest we all remember Allah first ourselves before questioning people we dont know and never met.

 

finally, it is obvious from the very first post that this whole thread was just an attempt to bash people wearing kara. turn your energy towards bigger and more important matters my beloved brothers in wilayat. leave those who wear kara and lets focus on our own akhirah,

 

with duas for your success

 

Peace.

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Christians were using Tasbih before muslims also

 

Well that's up for debate:

 

According to pious tradition, the concept of the rosary was given to Saint Dominic in an apparition of the Virgin Mary in the year 1214 in the church of Prouille. This Marian apparition received the title of Our Lady of the Rosary.[20] In the 15th century it was promoted by Alanus de Rupe (aka Alain de la Roche or Saint Alan of the Rock), a Dominican priest and theologian, who established the "15 rosary promises" and started many rosary confraternities.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosary

 

But yeah, I'm sure that Muslims didn't invent it, although I guess that it could be argued that there is a narration in which sayeda Fatima [a] made one, which would show that it is acceptable.

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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Salam,

Once again, the original question was "are kara a bid'a". the answer is no because the Masumeen (as) neither wore them nor instructed us to wear them, and there is nobody on earth who wears them, that thinks otherwise. If anyone thought wearing a kara was a part of their faith, THEN it would become a bid'a. but there isnt (I hope), so its not.

our personal feelings or opinions are not relevant to this question.

The Masumeen (as) left very little specifics of how to perform mourning - its up to the individual, their culture and their environment - so long as it does not go against the sharia.

wearing a kara - a bracelet - is obviously not going against sharia. so it is clearly permissable.

re: the first line highlighted in red

thats your opinion brother, and our opinions doesnt matter in issues of fiqh. it does not break any laws of sharia, so is allowed.

I think you absolutely mistook my words.

I never used/mentioned whether it was bidah or not bidah permitted or not in ANY of my posts.

I did not even mention the word KARA.

I did however mention it is better to avoid wearing accessories with Duas and Quran ayas, because your body may not clean.

So best to avoid.

I used the phrase BEST TO AVOID, because of the above.

your entire argument has now come to "there are people who engrave the names of masumeen or duas or quranic ayahs on their kara and this is wrong". Can I just remind you, once again, that in our fiqh, we ARE allowed to have these things on our person, so there is no sharia being broken.

Did I mention shariah was broken or it is forbidden any where in my posts?

I used the term best to avoid, wearing them as we may be in an impure state and forget. so why risk. As simple as that.

you are arguing against kara because you do not like them. sharia says wearing silver jewellery is ok for men. sharia says having holy words on our person is ok (so long as they are given the proper respect). thirdly we do have hadith that certain holy words DO provide us protection - again whether you agree with this or like this or not, its just a simple, plain, obvious fact.

re: the second line highlighted in red

thats none of your business, none of my business, none of anyones business, nothing to do with this thread and I suggest we all remember Allah first ourselves before questioning people we dont know and never met.

There was no one named or mentioned in this thread, the OP asked a general question and I simply answered in a general manner.

Neither  was I attacking anyone.

I also stated , THIS IS ANOTHER TOPIC.

finally, it is obvious from the very first post that this whole thread was just an attempt to bash people wearing kara. turn your energy towards bigger and more important matters my beloved brothers in wilayat. leave those who wear kara and lets focus on our own akhirah,

I did not even mention the WORD KARA, thru out my posts.

I also mentioned the point of being a reminder is NOT a problem.

I absolutely agree on your last comment regarding our Akhira ,which I indicated in my first post:

If people read the Quran, and tried to understand their religion.

Imam Sadiq; ( Al- Kafi H 42, Ch. 1, h 8):

"I would like to teach my shias to have good understanding of religion even if it would require to use my whip on their heads."

None of the above are my personal opinions as stated in my previous posts.

Hope this clarifies .

Wasalam

Edited by tendersoul

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If someone makes something part of their religion that the Masumeen in no way practiced, and is in fact derived directly from another religion, I don't see how it's not bid'ah.

 

Just think how confused Islam will get if all Muslims start borrowing from other religions. That is essentially how Christianity was distorted.

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If someone makes something part of their religion that the Masumeen in no way practiced, and is in fact derived directly from another religion, I don't see how it's not bid'ah.

 

Just think how confused Islam will get if all Muslims start borrowing from other religions. That is essentially how Christianity was distorted.

 

I went shopping with my auntie one time, and there was an Indian guy at the check out wearing a silver bangle, and my aunt said to him "are you shi'a?" - the guy got upset and said "why does everyone keep asking me that!? I'm seekh!" My aunt said sorry, it's just that Shi'as wear that bangle. My uncle wears one. So I think that the origins of it aren't really that clear to many people.

 

However all in all, it is quite a minor thing, no need to get overly worked up over it, it definitely isn't worse than turning your ring towards you when you do qunut which is a much more widely practiced innovation that people actually believe is recommended, with the kara people do seem to wear it to remember Karbala.

 

Just another thing to add to the Shi'a bling-bling.

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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If someone makes something part of their religion that the Masumeen in no way practiced, and is in fact derived directly from another religion, I don't see how it's not bid'ah.

 

Just think how confused Islam will get if all Muslims start borrowing from other religions. That is essentially how Christianity was distorted.

 

my argument all along (I honestly cant make this any clearer) is that nobody believes that this is part of their religion. no Masum (as) wore it, no Masum (as) told us to wear it. 

 

shia wear it as a cultural form of mourning. its a minor cultural thing that is practiced by few shia outside south asia.

 

this entire thread is pointless. 

 

of this already small population, there is an even smaller group of people where their kara are engraved with masumeen (as) names, or quranic ayas, or things like this. it is a question of your personal faith whether holy words worn on the body offer protection or not. there are hadith which support the argument that names of masumeen (as) protect against certain things like black magic or nadhr. 

 

brothers, I understand you do not like karas and, as is quite obvious now, neither do you like the wearers of karas. all I can repeat again is:

 

(1) its really none of any of our business

(2) it doesnt affect us in any way

(3) it is clearly not haram

(4) those who wear it will not have their opinions changed

(5) people wearing kara has zero influence on our ummah

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