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Comparison Between Pilgrim To Kerbala And Mecca

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here is a recap of our conversations to-date:


Dutch002: You follow Imamate. That is wrong.

Shia: Sunnis follow Hanafi, Shafai, Hambali, Maliki, Ibn Taymiyah, Abdul-Wahab, etc as imams

Dutch002: But they were pious scholars

Shia: But the 4 main sunni imams studied under Imam Jafar as.

Dutch002: But your imams are not mentioned in the Quran

Shia: Neither are yours. and neither are the caliphs

Dutch002: But still, you have to believe one of the Sunni imams


Dutch002: Also why does the Quran not mention then by names. Only in Hadith are they mentioned.

Shia: The structure of the Quran is such that it alludes to things (Wali is Allah, the Messenger saw and those in authority, rope of Allah, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those who give zakat while praying. You have to rely on hadith for details.

Dutch002: No I don't. Quran is enough

Shia: But without the hadith, you will not know how to pray, fast, hajj, zakat, etc.

Dutch002: Yes I will.

Shia: ok, then the names of imams are listed directly under the ayat that says 17 rakats per day, etc.


Dutch002: And you use wasilah

Shia: The Quran tells us to use wasilah. The sahaba and wives of the Prophet used wasilah

Dutch002: But you pray to your imams

Shia: No we dont

Dutch002: Yes you do

Shia: To and through are different

Dutch002: No they are not.


Dutch002: Your imam is Dajjal. He will come from Iran with jews

Shia: Imam Mahdi is a descendant of Fatima as

Dutch002: But he will teach with jewish scripture

Shia: That tradition was started with Caliph Umar using Ka'b Al-Ahbar.

Dutch002: He will kill Sunnis

Shia: He will kill Nasib - haters of Ahlul-Bayt.


Does that about sum it up? I dont know about anyone else but using this sound logic and reasoning I am ready to give up shiaism and join the Salaf. I need a black flag and head to chop off.

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Praying at graves is haraam. You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with Muhammed saw.


we are often told that pray near graves or building shrines is forbidden and usually the following ayah is quoted to defend this position:


[Quran 9:84] And never offer prayer for any one of them who dies and do not stand by his grave;


Yet we find lots of shrines not just within the shia sect but Ahle-Sunnah as well. For example:


Hijr Ismail (burial place of Hz Ismail and his mother and other prophets):



Tomb Prophet Muhammad saw:



Tombs of Prophet Muhammad saw, Caliph Abu Bakr, Caliph Umar:



Malik bin Anas (Imam Maliki):



Imam Al-Shafi'i:



Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal:






Fakhr ad-Din Razi:



Abdul Qadir Jilani:



Ibn Tamiyyah:




There are hundreds more as well. So how does this happen.


The reason is that in order to spread fitna, thse people only quote half the ayah. the complete ayah is as follows:


[Quran 9:84]And never offer prayer for any one of them who dies and do not stand by his grave; surely they disbelieve in Allah and His Messenger and they shall die in transgression.


So the Quran is telling us to only NOT pray for those who are disbelievers.


PS. I hope folks enjoy the pictures. We have a such a rich history that is slowly being eradicated by wahabis. Its such a shame that foreigners (Prince Charles) have to remind us the importance of our history while the so called "Guardians of Harmain" are intent of destroying it.

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On 10/12/2015 at 6:37 PM, Dutch002 said:

1: Because Hussein ra is much more important than Allah subbanawata3ala

2: No but thats because Sunni's only worship Allah swt.

Wa Aleykom Salaam:)

so u mean the creation is more important than the creator?

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