Jump to content
alidu78

Comparison Between Pilgrim To Kerbala And Mecca

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

No stick to the verse and do not divert.

O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.

If you disagree over who those in authority are then refer it to Allah and the Messenger.

That does not even make sense since those in authority are already in authority. Cmon, try harder..

And don't twist the words of the Quran. It says if you disagree over anything not if you disagree over those in authority.

Who did Muhammad s.a.w. appoint as his successor and who became it by the 'majority of men' or better said the majority of Saqifah?

Abu Bakr RA.

Muhammed saw: No doubt, I am indebted to Abu Bakr more than to anybody else regarding both his companionship and his wealth. And if I had to take a Khalil from my followers, I would certainly have taken Abu Bakr, but the fraternity of Islam is sufficient. Let no Door of the Mosque remain open, except the door of Abu Bakr.

It can only mean people who are put in charge by Allah and the Messenger. Refer it to Allah and the Messenger and do not invent elections with your own procedures to elect those in authority.

If you disagree over anything with those in authority, refer it to the Sunnah of Muhammed saw and Allah swt.

'If you dispute over anything'...Read please.

Last but not least your claim that it is about parents doesn't make sense at all because what about the orphans and the elderly people without parents?

No, i said that it could mean a thousand things not just parents. Parents is just an example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And don't twist the words of the Quran. It says if you disagree over anything not if you disagree over those in authority.

 

The question was 'who are those in authority'? The thousands could be things according to you which is actually no anwser at all and leaves the verse senseless and without meaning or the Imams a.s.

So if you want to know who are those in authority you should refer it back to Allah and His Messenger s.a.w. 

Who did He appoint as successor?

 

Abu Bakr RA.

Muhammed saw: No doubt, I am indebted to Abu Bakr more than to anybody else regarding both his companionship and his wealth. And if I had to take a Khalil from my followers, I would certainly have taken Abu Bakr, but the fraternity of Islam is sufficient. Let no Door of the Mosque remain open, except the door of Abu Bakr.

 

I never heard of this hadith. 

The strongest hadith which is known in shia and sunni ahaadith regarding succession is ofcourse the hadith of Ghadir Khumm.

But IF your hadith is true then still it's no indication about succession. A khalil is not as successor. It's actually an attempt to come as close as possible to the suggestion that Abu Bakr was chosen by Muhammad s.a.w. but even in that time already they knew that there wasn't hard evidence for it so they have to take pleasure with suggestive ones like the 'Abu Bakr led prayer' hadith or the Uhud hadith on siddiq, two martyrs etcetera.

 

If you disagree over anything with those in authority, refer it to the Sunnah of Muhammed saw and Allah swt.

 

You first have to know who those in authority were but you don't know and assume it could be a thousand things. Therefore this discussion has no meaning unless you agree with me that those in authority at least had to be chosen by Allah and the Messenger s.a.w.

We are not going to obey self proclaimed leaders nor those proclaimed by the mass.

 

Edited by Skanderbeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anas (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bestow peaceand blessings upon him) said,“Abu Bakr and Umar are mature masters of the first and the last with the exception of the Prophets and the Messengers.”

 

Maybe in some bizzaro heaven, Caliph Abu Bakr and Umar are the Masters of Oldies because apparently everyone will be young in heaven:

 

Narrated Abu Hurairah:
that the Prophet (ﷺ) said: "A caller will call out: 'You shall have life and never die; you shall be healthy and never be ill; you shall be young and never grow old; you shall live in favor and never suffer difficult circumstances.' That is the saying of Allah Most High: This is Paradise, which you have been made to inherit because of your deeds that you used to do (43:72)."
Jami` at-Tirmidhi » Chapters on Tafsir
Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3246
 
 
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri and Abu Huraira both reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
There would be an announcer (in Paradise) who would make this announcement: Verily I there is in store for you (everlasting) health and that you should never fall ill and that you live (for ever) and do not die at all. And that you would remain young and never grow old. And that you would always live in affluent circumstances and never become destitute, as words of Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, are:" And it would be announced to them: This is the Paradise. You have been made to inherit it for what you used to do". (VII; 43)
Sahih Muslim » The Book of Paradise, its Description, its Bounties and its Inhabitants
Book 53, Hadith 26
 
Ma

 

If you help him (Muhammad) not (it does not matter), for Allah did indeed help him when the disbelievers drove him out, the second of two, when they both [Muhammad and Abu Bakr] were in the cave, and he said to his companion [Abu Bakr]: "Be not sad (or afraid), surely Allah is with us." Then Allah sent down His calmness upon him, and strengthened him with forces which you saw not, and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowermost, while it was the Word of Allah that became the uppermost, and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise." (At-Tawbah 9:40)

Yes agreed. Abu Bakr was scared for his life and would have possibly given away the location of the Prophet so Allah had to calm him down. Not really the Caliph's bravest moment. On the other hand of course, we had Imam Ali (as) who slept comfortably in the Prophet's (saw) bed while surrounded by assassins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That does not even make sense since those in authority are already in 

Abu Bakr RA.

Muhammed saw: No doubt, I am indebted to Abu Bakr more than to anybody else regarding both his companionship and his wealth. And if I had to take a Khalil from my followers, I would certainly have taken Abu Bakr, but the fraternity of Islam is sufficient. Let no Door of the Mosque remain open, except the door of Abu Bakr.

 

 

How would you respond to this?

 

Zaid b. Arqam narrates – Some companions had a path through the mosques one day the Prophet (s.a.w.a.) said – Close all the doors except that of Ali.

Zaid says that people [the companions whom we are told would accept any order of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.)] started speaking (against the order). Thus, the Prophet (s.a.w.a.) stood up and praised Allah and said – I have ordered to close all the doors except the door of Ali, by Allah! I have not closed anything nor opened but I have been ordered to do so and I obeyed.

1. Musnad-o-Ahmad vol. 4, p. 329, tradition 19,502 – Imam Ahmed b. Hanbal is one of the four Sunni Imams of jurisprudence

2. Sunan-e-Kubra of Nesaai one of the authors of Sihah-e-Sittah (vol. 7, p. 422, tradition 8,369 & later edition vol. 5, p. 118, tradition 8,423)

3. Al Bedaya wa al-Nehaya of Ibn Kathir, vol. 5 p. 456 – he was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah who has rejected this tradition as a Shiite fabrication

4. Haakim in Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain (vol. 3, p. 125, tradition 4,688) records that this report is with correct chain of narrators (Sahih al-sanad).

5. Zahabi in his Talkhees al-Mustadrak records that the report is Sahih

6. Fadhail al-Sahaabah vol. 2 p. 618-620/985

7. Majma al-Zawaaid vol. 9 p. 114 tradition 14,671

8. Riyaaz al-Nazarah vol. 4 p.136

Edited by power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Br. Dutch:

 

I may be going of topic but may be not. There seems to be a big fundamental difference between the people who ONLY go to Mecca and those that go to Mecca and Kerbala. Or to put it another way, there is a big difference between people who pray to Allah and those who pray to Allah using the Prophet saw and his progeny as wasilah.

 

Why is it that Taliban, Al-Qaida, ISIS, Al-Nusra, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (Pakistan), Sipha-e-Sahab (Pakistan), etc. are all from the Mecca ONLY group? Do you think may be if they start going to Kerbala they would be blessed with the peace, tranquility and wisdom to stop their butchery of innocent people? Going to Allah through the blessed Prophet and his Progeny will definitely fill the void in their lives that they try to make up for with violence.

 

Instead of having imams like Osama Bil Laden, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, Mulla Omar, etc if they too had a imam like Imam Ali as then they would know that "man is either your brother in faith or brother in humanity." There is a serious gap in their core belief system which can only be rectified by holding on to the rope of Allah aka Prophet saw and his Ahlulbayt. A good place to start would be visiting Karbala...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question was 'who are those in authority'? The thousands could be things according to you which is actually no anwser at all and leaves the verse senseless and without meaning or the Imams a.s.

Do you're parents have authority over you? Does the government have authority over you? Does you're boss have authority over you?

So if you want to know who are those in authority you should refer it back to Allah and His Messenger s.a.w.

No. Just no.

I never heard of this hadith.

The strongest hadith which is known in shia and sunni ahaadith regarding succession is ofcourse the hadith of Ghadir Khumm.

But IF your hadith is true then still it's no indication about succession. A khalil is not as successor. It's actually an attempt to come as close as possible to the suggestion that Abu Bakr was chosen by Muhammad s.a.w. but even in that time already they knew that there wasn't hard evidence for it so they have to take pleasure with suggestive ones like the 'Abu Bakr led prayer' hadith or the Uhud hadith on siddiq, two martyrs etcetera.

Listen man, this was all mektab. If Muhammed saw would have told all the muslims about his divine family, Ali RA would have been made Caliph and there would be no arguing. Technically there never was a disagreement on religion just politics. Shia made it into a religious disagreement by providing false information.

You first have to know who those in authority were but you don't know and assume it could be a thousand things.

No i do not. If Allah swt did not mention any names than it can only be referred to random things.

Therefore this discussion has no meaning unless you agree with me that those in authority at least had to be chosen by Allah and the Messenger s.a.w.

No i do not agree. You are not making any sense whatsoever.

Lets cut to the chase, did Ali RA ever mention anything about his divine chosen fate during the time of Abu Bakr RA, Umar RA, Uthmaan RA? If no, stop following Shiism and embrace Islaam.

We are not going to obey self proclaimed leaders nor those proclaimed by the mass.

Like Khomeini? Edited by Dutch002

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you're parents have authority over you? Does the government have authority over you? Does you're boss have authority over you?

No. Just no.

Allah Holds all authority :

 

Quran: If You punish them, they are Your servants; but if You forgive them, You are the Mighty and Wise.” (5:118)

 

And gives it to whom he wills:

 

Quran: (18:83- 18:88) 

 

And they ask you about Zul-Qarnain. Say, “I will tell you something about him.”

 

We established him on earth, and gave him all kinds of means.

 

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a murky spring, and found a people in its vicinity. We (God) said, “O Zul-Qarnain, you may either inflict a penalty, or else treat them kindly.

 

He ( Zul qarnin) said, “As for him who does wrong, we will penalize him, then he will be returned to his Lord, and He will punish him with an unheard-of torment.

 

“But as for him who believes and acts righteously, he will have the finest reward, and We will speak to him of Our command  ( AMR امر ) with ease.”

 

 

Pay attention to the aya above God did not tell Zul qarnin what to do, but left the matter with him, to chose what to do.

 

If you were alive during the time of Zul qarnin, if he wanted to he could punish you or for go punishment. As a result he had authority over you , because God gave him the authority.

 God gave Zul qarnin the AUTHORITY ( AMR- stated in the Quran), so he could either punish or forgo, similar to what God does himself .

 

As a result God can even give the Authority to an who he choses to and God states in the Quran Right after Allah, the Prophet, and Those who are in Authority( by Allah).

 

No body knows , who Zulqarnin actually is , except those who are given knowledge.

 

Similarly only those who are aware, know who is the ones given authority to, by God.  

Those who Accept Allah ,follow Mohammad, and those given authority after Mohammad by Allah . Who are the Imams.

And the Shias accept this as they accept God gave Zulqarnin the Authority also.

 

Quran:

 

O you who believe! Obey God and obey the Messenger and those in authority (AMR) among you. And if you dispute over anything, refer it to God and the Messenger, if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is best, and a most excellent determination. (An-Nisaa: 59)

 

Like Khomeini

 

Khomeini Is a scholar. Not  divinely appointed. Hence has no AMR by Allah. Anyone who calls any one of the scholars Ulel AMR, or they themselves consider themselves as Ulel Amr  ( those who are in authority by God ) are in deep ERROR.

 

The Current Ulel Amr is Imam Mahdi Only.

 

The Amr comes down ever year in Laylatul Qadr, and is given to those in Authority to Implement it. ( Surah Qadr)

 

Edited by tendersoul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And when there comes to them information about [public] security or fear, they spread it around. But if they had referred it back to the Messenger or to those of authority among them, then the ones who [can] draw correct conclusions from it would have known about it. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, you would have followed Satan, except for a few.

 

Is this about your parents, the government, your boss or others?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You fail to understand the role of Imams. Imams are there to teach you how to submit to Allah the best way possible.

 

 

You fail to understand the role of Imams. Imams are there to teach you how to submit to Allah the best way possible.

 

 

There are countless Sunni Walli-Ullahs from 7th century to 21st century who reached the status of absolute walliullahs statehood  without following any of the Shia Imams. There is one particular Sunni Walli Ullah born in 1930 died in 2000 in Pakistan who used to recite 200,000 Darood o Salawat Upon Hazrat Mohammad PBUH and Ahle bayt daily by the grace of Allah .  If you like, I can give you the english version of his book where he detailed his spiritual journey and his soul meeting Hazrat Mohammad PBUH  Hazrat Ali,Hussain,Hassan Abu Bakr, Umar  in spiritual world.   

 

Not only his but countless other Sunni Walli Ullahs biographies links I can give you which attained the rank of Walli Ullah without following any Shii Imam or traditions. 

 

So Your point is totally mute, Sufis and Sunni Walliullah proved you wrong that Path to Allah goes through 12 imams. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

There are countless Sunni Walli-Ullahs from 7th century to 21st century who reached the status of absolute walliullahs statehood  without following any of the Shia Imams. There is one particular Sunni Walli Ullah born in 1930 died in 2000 in Pakistan who used to recite 200,000 Darood o Salawat Upon Hazrat Mohammad PBUH and Ahle bayt daily by the grace of Allah .  If you like, I can give you the english version of his book where he detailed his spiritual journey and his soul meeting Hazrat Mohammad PBUH  Hazrat Ali,Hussain,Hassan Abu Bakr, Umar  in spiritual world.   

 

 

I have not come across a Walli who praises the Just and the unjust! I guess this is just another innovation is Sunni Madhab. And beside how dose one become a Walli? Do these Wallis get confirmation from the Almighty confirming this?

 

However, Imams of Ahlul bayt (as) cannot be compared to your so called  man made wallis, on the grounds that Ahlul bayt (as) were divinely appointed by the Almighty and purified from all sins, can the  Sunnis say this about their Wallis?

Edited by power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are countless Sunni Walli-Ullahs from 7th century to 21st century who reached the status of absolute walliullahs statehood  without following any of the Shia Imams. There is one particular Sunni Walli Ullah born in 1930 died in 2000 in Pakistan who used to recite 200,000 Darood o Salawat Upon Hazrat Mohammad PBUH and Ahle bayt daily by the grace of Allah .  If you like, I can give you the english version of his book where he detailed his spiritual journey and his soul meeting Hazrat Mohammad PBUH  Hazrat Ali,Hussain,Hassan Abu Bakr, Umar  in spiritual world.   

 

Not only his but countless other Sunni Walli Ullahs biographies links I can give you which attained the rank of Walli Ullah without following any Shii Imam or traditions. 

Last I checked, the Prophet saw said he is leaving behind the Quran and HIS AhlulBayt for us. He did not say Quran and random Walli-Ullahs

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him:
Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.
Sahih Muslim » The Book of the Merits of the Companions 
Chapter: The Virtues Of 'Ali Bin Abi Talib
Book 44, Hadith 55

 

 

So Your point is totally mute, Sufis and Sunni Walliullah proved you wrong that Path to Allah goes through 12 imams. 

 

How did they prove us wrong? Just because they said "hey I going to be WaliAllah from today" doesnt mean they proved anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last I checked, the Prophet saw said he is leaving behind the Quran and HIS AhlulBayt for us. He did not say Quran and random Walli-Ullahs

 

 

You have your own definition of Ahly Bayt. According to the Holy Quran Ahly bayt is Mohammad saw and his wives. Thats it. IF Ahly bait were the 12 imams Allah swt would have mentioned them explicitly for the guidance of the Ummah. The problem with shias is that they have completely abandoned Quran & do not wish to understand its meaning without the help of narrations which were reported by fallibles or unknown narrators. The Quran clearly states it is a complete book and provides detailed guidance (16:89). Go on disagree with Allah swt. 

Edited by Sledge Hammer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have your own definition of Ahly Bayt. According to the Holy Quran Ahly bayt is Mohammad saw and his wives. Thats it. IF Ahly bait were the 12 imams Allah swt would have mentioned them explicitly for the guidance of the Ummah. The problem with shias is that they have completely abandoned Quran & do not wish to understand its meaning without the help of narrations which were reported by fallibles or unknown narrators. The Quran clearly states it is a complete book and provides detailed guidance (16:89). Go on disagree with Allah swt. 

Salam,

But if Ahl al-Bayt according to you only has a temporary meaning then what was meant with the traditon that the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. will not separate from the Holy Quran untill some point in the future?

And what does hold fast to them as we should hold fast to the Holy Quran?

I know that the Holy Quran is a guidance and that is why we should hold fast to it but what about holding fast to the Ahl al-Bayt a.s.?

 

Edited by Skanderbeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have your own definition of Ahly Bayt. According to the Holy Quran Ahly bayt is Mohammad saw and his wives. Thats it. IF Ahly bait were the 12 imams Allah swt would have mentioned them explicitly for the guidance of the Ummah. The problem with shias is that they have completely abandoned Quran & do not wish to understand its meaning without the help of narrations which were reported by fallibles or unknown narrators. The Quran clearly states it is a complete book and provides detailed guidance (16:89). Go on disagree with Allah swt. 

My own definition??? Did you read the hadith I quoted from Sahih Muslim. The Prophet himself is telling us who the Ahlulbayt are:

 

He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.
Sahih Muslim » The Book of the Merits of the Companions 
Chapter: The Virtues Of 'Ali Bin Abi Talib
Book 44, Hadith 55
 
And if that is not good enough, may be this will help:
 
'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said:
Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)
Sahih Muslim » The Book of the Merits of the Companions
Chapter: The Virtues Of The Household Of The Prophet.
Book 44, Hadith 91

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

. The Quran clearly states it is a complete book and provides detailed guidance (16:89). Go on disagree with Allah swt. 

 

 So you don't adhere to Sunnah of Rasulollah (pbuh&hf)? Allah says in the Holy Quran: You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and who remembers Allah much. (33:21). In this verse Allah instructs Muslims to follow Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hf) who was an embodiment of the great values and manners of the Holy Quran. He gave the best example for mankind in the human history.

 

You cannot follow the Quran alone for guidance, you are required to follow the Sunnah of Rasul from authentic narration. Which you disagree with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 The Quran clearly states it is a complete book and provides detailed guidance (16:89). Go on disagree with Allah swt. 

Do you agree with Umar who claimed at the Incident of Black Thursday that we don't need the Prophet s.a.w. because we have the Holy Quran which is sufficient?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe in some bizzaro heaven, Caliph Abu Bakr and Umar are the Masters of Oldies because apparently everyone will be young in heaven:

 

Narrated Abu Hurairah:

that the Prophet (ﷺ) said: "A caller will call out: 'You shall have life and never die; you shall be healthy and never be ill; you shall be young and never grow old; you shall live in favor and never suffer difficult circumstances.' That is the saying of Allah Most High: This is Paradise, which you have been made to inherit because of your deeds that you used to do (43:72)."

Jami` at-Tirmidhi » Chapters on Tafsir

Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3246

 Some Shia scholars suspect Abu Hurairah hadees

 

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri and Abu Huraira both reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:

There would be an announcer (in Paradise) who would make this announcement: Verily I there is in store for you (everlasting) health and that you should never fall ill and that you live (for ever) and do not die at all. And that you would remain young and never grow old. And that you would always live in affluent circumstances and never become destitute, as words of Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, are:" And it would be announced to them: This is the Paradise. You have been made to inherit it for what you used to do". (VII; 43)

Sahih Muslim » The Book of Paradise, its Description, its Bounties and its Inhabitants

Book 53, Hadith 26

 

Ma

 

Yes agreed. Abu Bakr was scared for his life and would have possibly given away the location of the Prophet so Allah had to calm him down. Not really the Caliph's bravest moment. On the other hand of course, we had Imam Ali (as) who slept comfortably in the Prophet's (saw) bed while surrounded by assassins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comparing the pilgrimage of Hajj to Kerbala is like comparing Allah to Hussain.

Great point.

Allah = Hajj

Hussain = Karbala

Allah loves Hussain (plenty of Rasool saw Hadith stating so), therefore

Allah loves Karbala

All the more reason to go to Karbala once 1 wajib hajj has been completed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great point.

Allah = Hajj

Hussain = Karbala

Allah loves Hussain (plenty of Rasool saw Hadith stating so), therefore

Allah loves Karbala

All the more reason to go to Karbala once 1 wajib hajj has been completed.

 

No one said not to goto Karbala, but to equate the pilgrimage to Karbala to Hajj is against what Allah said. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one said not to goto Karbala, but to equate the pilgrimage to Karbala to Hajj is against what Allah said. 

Say: no reward do I ask for it except who wants to, to take towards his Lord a path.

 

Hajj is a ritual that signifies that very wage that Mohammad asks.  That is to take a path towards God. It's all about recognizing ritual expressions of the journey to God.

 

Now let's see another verse about the wage

 

Say: no reward do I ask for it except the love in my near kin (Al-Qurba)

 

Now it seems the path to Allah [swt] is the path towards the family of Mohammad , and that he united their love and his path as one and the same thing.

 

The Quran also says:

 

If you desire Allah and his Messenger

Who emigrates from his home towards God and his Messenger

They desire his face

 

Aside from Quran, we can see rationally that his chosen ones would make the journey towards God. They being that path of God, a journey to them would be journey towards God. 

 

The Quran has expressed the journey .."he takes them out of the darkness into the light". 

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can quote the Quran all you want to try and make an analogy but all the imams you pray to/through are not mentioned in that Quran. There is no Ali, Hussein,Hassan in the Quran. Everything you say about the Quran that is not true will come back to you and your scholars on Yawm al Qiyama.Than Allah swt will ask you: Did I tell you something about Imamate in Quran? You will say? My father told me? It is in the hadith? You will have no answer. The punishment of Allah swt is severe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can quote the Quran all you want to try and make an analogy but all the imams you pray to/through are not mentioned in that Quran. There is no Ali, Hussein,Hassan in the Quran. Everything you say about the Quran that is not true will come back to you and your scholars on Yawm al Qiyama.Than Allah swt will ask you: Did I tell you something about Imamate in Quran? You will say? My father told me? It is in the hadith? You will have no answer. The punishment of Allah swt is severe.

I will definitely tell Allah that we used wasilah because the Prophet saw did and so did his Sahaba.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can quote the Quran all you want to try and make an analogy but all the imams you pray to/through are not mentioned in that Quran. There is no Ali, Hussein,Hassan in the Quran. Everything you say about the Quran that is not true will come back to you and your scholars on Yawm al Qiyama.Than Allah swt will ask you: Did I tell you something about Imamate in Quran? You will say? My father told me? It is in the hadith? You will have no answer. The punishment of Allah swt is severe.

yes you're right, ahlul kisa is not sayeda Fatima, imam Ali, hassan and Hussain... Edited by laithAlIRAQI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes you're right, ahlul kisa is not sayeda Fatima, imam Ali, hassan and Hussain...

None of their names are mentioned by Allah swt in the Quran. Every single hadith in shia literature that says anything about imamate is a lie against the Quran.

Do you understand that? Do you understand the fact you are following a religion that is based on hearsay and lies?

And again there is no ALI or HUSSEIN in the Quran. Nothing about them, absolutely 0 notion not even an indirect reference.

How come the imams call themselves supervisors of Allah and that they controll all matters in the world and that they will judge mankind on yawm al qiyama? They have so much Divine Godpower that the Quran should actually be about them entirely. But nothing about them and their God powers.

All you're imams are dead and are fearing Allah swt themselves, they can't save themselves let alone you. And that last imam was never born or if he was i am sure its the Dajjal. Neither alive or dead, gets promision from Allah to come out, will come with 70.000 Jews with Persian shawles out of Shiacountry(Iran) and he will come and judge using hebrew literature and will call Allah swt in the fake jewname for God. Jews are still waiting for Messiah and call him Saviour, Shia still wait for Mahdi and call him Saviour. Both believe he will judge in Hebrew. I am positive its the Dajjal.

Join Islaam while you are still alive because there are no second chances. Leave Shiism, and join Islaam. I pray that Allah swt will guide every Shia on the planet to Islaam. Inshallah!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×