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Comparison Between Pilgrim To Kerbala And Mecca

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Salam aleykoum ,

 

Very often i saw shia hadith which say that a pilgrim to Kerbala is equivalent to hundred pilgims to Mecca.

I have two questions :

 

1) Why a pilgrim to Kerbala is Worth to so many pilgrims to Mecca ?

2) Do the sunnis have equivalent traditions among sunni hadiths ?

Edited by Jaafar Al-Shibli

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Salam aleykoum ,

Very often i saw shia hadith which say that a pilgrim to Kerbala is equivalent to hundred pilgims to Mecca.

I have two questions :

1) Why a pilgrim to Kerbala is Worth to so many pilgrims to Mecca ?

2) Do the sunnis have equivalent traditions among sunni hadiths ?

1: Because Hussein ra is much more important than Allah subbanawata3ala

2: No but thats because Sunni's only worship Allah swt.

Wa Aleykom Salaam:)

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We don't worship Imam Hussain a.s. We care about him a.s. because the Prophet s.a.w. loved him a.s. as himself.

That is why we never overwrote the tragedy of Karbala with a commemoration considered to be held by the Jews on exactly that same day.

Edited by Skanderbeg

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I was thinking the same thing the other day. But then I thought to myself, why do we make pilgrimage to Mecca anyway? Many reasons are behind that and certainly God isn't residing there as Wahhabis claim. It's just a structure that is indeed very holy. The act of prostrating toward Mecca is more symbolic than literal as we are really prostrating to God and not some structure. Muslims prostrated towards Jerusalem for some time too. That means that place is holy not that God lives there (nauzubillah).

 

So what I've understood is that pilgrimage to Mecca has been encouraged for many different reasons and God residing there is certainly not one of them (nauzubillah). And pilgrimage to Karbala too has been encouraged for different reasons and has certain rewards. On certain occasions, pilgrimage to Karbala is considered more rewarding than pilgrimage to Mecca in Shia hadith. Is it because sometimes the reasons behind pilgrimage to Karbala and its benefits can be more important than pilgrimage to Mecca?

 

For instance isn't one reason behind making pilgrimage to Kaaba to remind one's self of Abraham (pbuh)? So maybe making ziyarat of the grave of the Imam on certain occasions can be more rewarding because it reminds us that we should protect Islam and Kaaba itself against tyrants and protect the religion of Abraham and Muhammad (pbut).

 

But I wouldn't really know. And I'm not sure how authentic those ahadith are really. Besides I don't feel comfortable giving overall superiority to the grave of the Imam over Mecca or Jerusalem. It may be one of those things that if you do once a year it will reward you like a 100 hajjs and if you do a 100 times a year it still would reward you like100 hajjs whereas if you do 100 hajjs your reward will be the reward of 100 hajjs regardless. Those ahadith don't imply a clear math in my opinion.

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Salam,

The reward mentionned in ahadith for Ziyara in Karbala goes from 90 to 70,000 accepted Hajjs.

This does not take anything from the sacredness and obligation of Haj. Rather it gives an importance of the love for Ahl el Beit (as) a muslim should have.

Just like the tradition of the fasting man's sleep which is rewarded more than a night of prayer of a non fasting man. We never hear Sunnis wondering "does that mean that we can fast and sleep all day and ditch out Salah?"

1: Because Hussein ra is much more important than Allah subbanawata3ala

2: No but thats because Sunni's only worship Allah swt.

Wa Aleykom Salaam:)

Sorry to say but you completely missed out the point of Prophethood and Imamate. I would like to offer you a very good read about the relationship between Karbala an Haj. The title in itself is quite ambiguous - to me included, but in sha Allah swt you will go forward an have a look at it.

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I really don't know about such hadith but however I'm sure the multiple reward does not take away the obligation of Haj.

 

I dont know about the authenticity of these hadiths.

 

This topic has been previously discussed: [link]. Refer to post N. 4, for the Ṣaḥīḥ (Authentic) aḥādīth mentioned.

 

Wa `al-salam

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This topic has been previously discussed: [link]. Refer to post N. 4, for the Ṣaḥīḥ (Authentic) aḥādīth mentioned.

 

Wa `al-salam

 

Thank you and what do you think about my fisrt question in the beginning of the topic ?

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1: Because Hussein ra is much more important than Allah subbanawata3ala

2: No but thats because Sunni's only worship Allah swt.

Wa Aleykom Salaam:)

 

1. Because it's

  • Wilayah
  • Salah
  • Zakat
  • Sawm
  • Hajj

, and if it wasn't for Imam Hussein there would be no Salat. Go ask your Sheikh Hanafi and Sheikh Maleki who their teacher was, then come back and be smug.

 

2. You need to understand what worshipping means first. 

 

Some Sunnis come here and behave, we learn from them, and they learn from us. Others are smug like yourself. 

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1) Why a pilgrim to Kerbala is Worth to so many pilgrims to Mecca ?

2) Do the sunnis have equivalent traditions among sunni hadiths ?

This is only applicable once the obligatory hajj has been performed. We go to Kerbala to pay our respect and homage to Hussain (as) because he was loved by the Prophet (saw) and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. The hadith below should be sufficient to answer both questions:

 

Narrated Ya'la bin Murrah:
that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Husain is from me, and I am from Husain. Allah loves whoever loves Husain. Husain is a Sibt among the Asbat." [Asbat, plural of Sibt: A great tribe. Meaning, Al-Husain would have many offspring, such that they would become a great tribe. And this has indeed occurred. See Tuhfat Al-Ahwadhi (4/341).]
Jami` at-Tirmidhi » Chapters on Virtues 
Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3775
 
Narrated 'Ali bin Husain:
from his father, from his grandfather, 'Ali bin Abi Talib: "The Prophet (ﷺ) took Hasan and Husain by the hand and said: 'Whoever loves me and loves these two, and their father and mother, he shall be with me in my level on the Day of Judgement."
Jami` at-Tirmidhi » Chapters on Virtues
Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3733
 
Narrated Usamah bin Zaid:
"I came to the Prophet (ﷺ) one night concerning some need, so the Prophet (ﷺ) came out while he was covering up something, and I did not know what it was. Once I had tended to my need, I said: 'What is this that you were covering up?' So he uncovered it, and I found it was Hasan and Husain [peace be upon them] upon his hips. So he said: 'These are my two sons, and the sons of my daughter. O Allah! Indeed, I love them, so love them, and love those who love them.'"
Jami` at-Tirmidhi » Chapters on Virtues 
Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3769
 
There are different ways of showing love and one of the ways is to visit Imam Hussain (as) shrine. So when we are with the Prophet (saw) on the day of judgement, we can tell him that we loved his grandson enough to go to his place of martyrdom and offer our condolences.
 
 

1: Because Hussein ra is much more important than Allah subbanawata3ala

2: No but thats because Sunni's only worship Allah swt.

 

Of course there will be others there like Dutch002 who will simply tell the Prophet (saw) that they dont need to love Hussain because they are sunni. Good luck with that...
 
Pack your bags brother and go to Kerbala
Edited by shiaman14

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1. Because it's 1. Salat, 2. Fasting, 3. Hajj, 4. Zakat, 5. Khums, and if it wasn't for Imam Hussein there would be no Salat. Go ask your Sheikh Hanafi and Sheikh Maleki who their teacher was, then come back and be smug.

 

2. You need to understand what worshipping means first. 

 

Some Sunnis come here and behave, we learn from them, and they learn from us. Others are smug like yourself. 

 

Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik had hundreds of teachers between them.

 

Which one exactly are you referring to?

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The inward of the Shariah (code) and purpose of all rituals is stated to be:

 

Say: no wage do I ask for it except who wants to may take a path to his Lord. (25:57)

Say: no wage do I ask for it except the love in my near relatives (42:23)

 

The problem is people don't understand the significance of 42:23. 23 years was the Prophet a Prophet that preached, and he asks no wage for the message but to love his family.

 

Allah [swt] could of said no wage do I ask for it but love of Allah. But obviously, the way to be grateful and appreciating God's path ordained has always been through his chosen ones. 

 

Think about the verse 42:23. He could of said I ask no wage for it except to thank God. But how would we thank God? Just say praise to Allah? In reality, loving Ahlulbayt is the soul of Islam. It's the foundation.

 

Deists believe in a Creator. Jews acknowledge God and his Oneness. So what? Sincerity to God and worshipping him sincerely is always how we submit and obey his chosen ones. And that obedience and submission to them should be that of love, not forced hated submission.

 

In fact, the physical house is saying, God can make a physical house a direction by which people go to, in the same people should submit to those who obedience is obedience to God. Consequently, rejecting Ulil-Amr means a person has not done hajj in understanding. And we see Allah says woe to those who do Salah. Those who are heedless in their Salah.

 

The same is true of Hajj.

 

Ziyarat of Imam Hussain with understanding is perfection of Hajj.

Edited by StrugglingForTheLight

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1. Because it's 1. Salat, 2. Fasting, 3. Hajj, 4. Zakat, 5. Khums, and if it wasn't for Imam Hussein there would be no Salat.

That's not how it goes brother.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

These "5 Usul al-Din" and "10 Furu` al-Deen" are just teaching/learning tools, they are not extracted from the texts in this form. According to the Ahadeeth, the pillars of Five:

1 - Wilayah

2 - Salah

3 - Zakat

4 - Sawm

5 - Hajj

Wilayah is the center of the deen, it is the message of the Qur'an. Allah [swt] has absolute wilayah over everything and He appoints those to the seat of wilayah whom He wills.

وعن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه وعبدالله بن الصلت جميعا ، عن حماد بن عيسى ، عن حريز بن عبدالله ، عن زرارة ، عن أبي جعفر(عليه السلام) قال : بُني الإسلام على خمسة أشياء : على الصلاة ، والزكاة ، والحج ، والصوم ، والولاية . قال زرارة : فقلت : وأي شيء من ذلك أفضل ؟ فقال : الولاية أفضل لأنها مفتاحهن ، والوالي هو الدليل عليهن ، قلت : ثم الذي يلي ذلك في الفضل ؟ فقال : الصلاة ، قلت : ثم الذي يليها في الفضل ؟ قال : الزكاة لأنه قرنها بها ، وبدأ بالصلاة قبلها ، قلت : فالذي يليها في الفضل ؟ قال : الحج ، قلت : ماذا يتبعه ؟ قال : الصوم ، الحديث .في أمان الله

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235031637-5-pillars-of-islam-why-is-it-different/

The hadith says the best goes 1) Wilayah 2) Salat 3) Zakat 4) Hajj 5) Sawm.

Edited by The Batman

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1. Because it's 1. Salat, 2. Fasting, 3. Hajj, 4. Zakat, 5. Khums.

2. You need to understand what worshipping means first.

Some Sunnis come here and behave, we learn from them, and they learn from us. Others are smug like yourself.

Khums is part of the pillar instead of the Shahada. Is this something Sunni's should learn?

and if it wasn't for Imam Hussein there would be no Salat.

Without Allah swt there would be no Salat. Edited by Dutch002

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Sorry to say but you completely missed out the point of Prophethood and Imamate. I would like to offer you a very good read about the relationship between Karbala an Haj. The title in itself is quite ambiguous - to me included, but in sha Allah swt you will go forward an have a look at it.

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Salamah ibn-al-Khattab from ) Sulayman ibn Sama‘a and ‘Abdallah ibn Muhammad from ‘Abdallah ibn al-Qasim al-Batal from abu Basir from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "Whoever of the Imams that would not know what would happen to him and to what events he would proceed such a person is not a possessor of Divine authority over His creature."

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from ‘Umrah ibn Musa from Musa ibn Ja‘far from ‘Amr ibn Sa‘id al-Mada’ini from abu ‘Ubayda al-Mada’ini from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "When the Imam (a.s.) would will to know something Allah will grant him such knowledge."

Sahih Shia hadiths.

This pretty much sums it up for me, and you do worship Hussein ra. Stop beating around the bush mate.

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Disagreeing with any Imam is shirk:

Ahmad ibn Mahran from Muhammad ibn Ali and Muhammad ibn Yahya from Ahmad ibn Muhammad altogether from Muhammad ibn Sinan from al-Mufaddal ibn ‘Umar from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "Whatever Imam Ali (a.s.) has brought I follow them entirely and whatever he has forbidden I desist from them altogether. Whatever virtue that were found in the Holy Prophet (s.a.) were found in Imam Ali (a.s.) also. The Holy Prophet was more virtuous than all of the creatures of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. Those turning away from any item of his (Imam Ali) guidance would be like one turning away from the guidance of Allah and His Prophet. Rejecting him in small or a great one matters would like considering things like Allah (shirk). Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (a.s.) was the gate to Allah through which only, people could go closer to Him. Imam Ali (a.s.) was the path that if one would ignore it he would have been destroyed. This is also true of all the Imams of guidance one after the other. Allah has made them as the cornerstones of the earth so that people on it would not be destroyed. They possess the doubtless Divine authority over the inhabitants of earth and those below the earth.

Ali ra is the supervisor-partner of Allah swt and knows everything like Allah swt and decides who goes to heaven and hell:

Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (a.s.) would very often say, "I am the supervisor for Allah to see who should go to Paradise and who should go to Hell. I am the greatest criterion, the possessor of the staff and the (marking) seal Miysam All the angels and the spirit have acknowledged the existence in me of all the matters that they had acknowledge in Prophet Muhammad (s.a.). I am held responsible for all such matters that Prophet Muhammad (s.a.) was held responsible. Such responsibilities are the duties to Allah, the Lord. The Holy Prophet will be called upon and his call will be accepted. I will be called up on and my call will be accepted. The Holy Prophet will be made to speak and I will be made to speak and I will speak just the way he would speak. I have been given certain distinctions which are given to no one before me. I was taught all about the deaths, the sufferings, the genealogy of people and clear speech. I have not missed any of the knowledge that have passed me by and nothing of the future is unseen or unknown to me. I give good news by the permission of Allah and do my duty towards Allah. All of these is from Allah Who has made it possible for me through His knowledge."

Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad al-Ash‘ari has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn Jumhur al-‘Ammi from Muhammad ibn Sinan who has said that al-Mufaddal narrated to us from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.). He then narrated the above Hadith.

Imaams are also deputies of Allah swt:

Al-Husayn ibn Muhammad al-Ash‘ari has narrated from Mu‘alla ibn Muhammad from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from abu Mas‘ud from al-Ja'fari who has said that he heard abu al-Hassan al-Rida (a.s.) say the following. " The Imams (a.s.) are the deputies of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, on earth."

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That's not how it goes brother.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235031637-5-pillars-of-islam-why-is-it-different/

The hadith says the best goes 1) Wilayah 2) Salat 3) Zakat 4) Hajj 5) Sawm.

 

....................Yeah you are right, i was a bit sleepy. But still, as you can see below, he still doesn't get the point and wants to be more smug.......

Without Allah swt there would be no Salat.

 

Like talking to a child.

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....................Yeah you are right, i was a bit sleepy. But still, as you can see below, he still doesn't get the point and wants to be more smug.......

Like talking to a child.

You fail at understanding the simple point of Islam. Islam is not about SuperImams who live for thousands of years. Islam is about submitting yourself to Allah swt. I dont think alot of Shia understand monotheism. Good luck with researching the foundation of Islam and meaning of Islam.

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You fail at understanding the simple point of Islam. Islam is not about SuperImams who live for thousands of years. Islam is about submitting yourself to Allah swt. I dont think alot of Shia understand monotheism. Good luck with researching the foundation of Islam and meaning of Islam.

You fail to understand the role of Imams. Imams are there to teach you how to submit to Allah the best way possible.

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Sunni scholars themselves differed on whether Mecca was superior to Medina or not.

 

Btw, these ahadith don't seem to be implying that Hajj is less valuable than ziyarah, it's just saying this mustahab action has as much reward as a certain amount of completed pilgrimages. This is similar to narrations which state "if you do this, than Jannah is obligatory on you", this isn't sayingthese actions are superior to Salat. Keep into mind, not completing the wajib actions means you will be deprived of the rewards which come from mustahab actions.

 

Also, sometimes the numbers which come into these ahadith may not be literal, but perhaps just emphasise on ziyarah of the A'immah [as].

 

But either way, I would argue myself Hajj is superior. Because not completing Hajj can actually take you to Hellfire, and your death will be like the death of a Christian or a Magian, not a Muslim.

 

Any corrections to this post would be appreciated, thanks.

Edited by The Batman

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1: Because Hussein ra is much more important than Allah subbanawata3ala

2: No but thats because Sunni's only worship Allah swt.

Wa Aleykom Salaam:)

This is what I find funny in current Muslim situations. Logical fallacies, invalid proofs, emotional rants and of course personal thoughts. 

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You fail at understanding the simple point of Islam. Islam is not about SuperImams who live for thousands of years. Islam is about submitting yourself to Allah swt. I dont think alot of Shia understand monotheism. Good luck with researching the foundation of Islam and meaning of Islam.

And how do I submit myself to Allah?

By following him who was appointed by Allah?

Or by following someone who was chosen by some people at some spontaneous invented consultation in some place, some time?

 

Edited by Skanderbeg

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