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Pursuing Admission To Isma'ili Tariqa—Questions?

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I wish I had time to study Ismailism more deeply but there is an ocean of information and I don't even know where to start.

 

Can you recommend an online course or something which would serve as a good foindation to undertanding the Ismaili path?

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But what is the point of religion if the resurrection has already occured? Isnt the resurrection the culmination of creation?

Humbly and with utmost respect,

Religion is religion and the concept of posthumorous resurrection does not change what religion is, and that is Tawhid, or nondualism. Everything is one, undivided.

Think about it, if everything was one then statements like "Wherever you turn there is the Face of Allah..." and "He is closer to you than your jugular..." would mean just that. Language is a barrier which captures and shapes our reality. For example, in English it is popularly said, "I came into this world..." when "I came out of this world" would be more appropriate, as in "God it was Who caused you to sprout from the earth...." Language traps us into breaking things down for examination so that we can talk about it, and by doing so we lose the perspective that everything is truly nondual.

The concept of posthumous resurrection taken from a literal reading of the Qur'an seems to only further the illusion of an ego, the image we have of ourselves, because we end up identifying ourselves as somehow apart from everything else. In that way a person then makes themself equal to Allah--shirk. There is no equal. The idea of embodiment after death makes me think that one is trying to hold on to life, that their efforts are merely out of selfishness.

The Qur'anic resurrection can only mean resurrection of the mind, the way we think, because the mind takes in and forms our reality. And by coming back again to when we were babies, to when we knew not ourselves nor language to break things up will we be resurrected.

In my opinion the Qur'an is itself the Day of Judgment and its verdict is dependant upon realization of Tawhid. If a person adheres to a physical religion they will expect a physical afterlife, and they'll wait for death to find out if they guessed right. There is no certainty beyond fake certainty that physical resurrection exists. But if a person adheres to a spiritual resurrection they will expect a spiritual afterlife, if any at all, and they'll find salvation in this life and the next.

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This article presents Seven Proofs for the Succession of Isma'il ibn Ja'far and his descendants to the Imamat

 

"Our branch of Shia Islam, in that particular generation of the family, accepted the legitimacy of the eldest son, Isma‘il, as being the appointed Imam to succeed and that is why they are known as Ismailis."
- Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV
(Forty-Ninth Hereditary Imam of the Shi‘i Isma‘ili Muslims)

 

Read the full article here: http://ismailignosis.com/2014/10/02/who-succeeded-imam-jafar-al-sadiq-seven-proofs-for-the-imamat-of-imam-ismail-ibn-jafar/


The Prophet Muhammad owned race horses - it is mentioned in several hadiths too.

 

Islam does not demand that its Imam live an ascetic monkish lifestyle.

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This article presents Seven Proofs for the Succession of Isma'il ibn Ja'far and his descendants to the Imamat

 

"Our branch of Shia Islam, in that particular generation of the family, accepted the legitimacy of the eldest son, Isma‘il, as being the appointed Imam to succeed and that is why they are known as Ismailis."

- Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV

(Forty-Ninth Hereditary Imam of the Shi‘i Isma‘ili Muslims)

 

Read the full article here: http://ismailignosis.com/2014/10/02/who-succeeded-imam-jafar-al-sadiq-seven-proofs-for-the-imamat-of-imam-ismail-ibn-jafar/

The Prophet Muhammad owned race horses - it is mentioned in several hadiths too.

 

Islam does not demand that its Imam live an ascetic monkish lifestyle.

 

 

I bet a DNA test will prove that the Aga Khan is not even a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

 

But of course the impostor that is the Aga Khan would never submit to a DNA test.

 

The acts of worship of the Nizari Ismailis (practiced inside their JKs) are enough to show that the Aga Khan is an impostor. Their acts of worship have more shirk and heresy in them than that of the Christians with Prophet Isa (AS) and their rites such as Eucharist. Such acts of worship (as the Ismailis have) could never have anything to do with Islam.

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I think you may be right, as it seems probably possible, but that means nothing with regards to the qualities of the Imam. It doesn't matter if the Imam of the time descends from the Holy Prophet, what matters is that he believes he descends from him.

“Or were you witnesses when death came to Jacob?”

In no way can Aga Khan prove his lineage. What the Imam of the time can prove however is that he acts in accordance with Islamic principles.

“Abraham said: ‘And also my descendants?’

God said: ‘Evildoers shall not enjoy My covenant.”

In my opinion, the mind of the Imam is the true treasure of mankind. The Holy Prophet did something not yet done and that was to give birth to and nurturing a beneficial conscience. From the time of birth the Aga Khan was told about his circumstance in life, who he was, and how he might someday come to be. This no doubt shaped his psyche. It was these factors and ones like them which formed a unique reality. Who else is revered as Imam in our time? It is because of the attitudes of his people that the Aga Khan knows who he is.

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I think you may be right, as it seems probably possible, but that means nothing with regards to the qualities of the Imam. It doesn't matter if the Imam of the time descends from the Holy Prophet, what matters is that he believes he descends from him.

“Or were you witnesses when death came to Jacob?”

In no way can Aga Khan prove his lineage. What the Imam of the time can prove however is that he acts in accordance with Islamic principles.

“Abraham said: ‘And also my descendants?’

God said: ‘Evildoers shall not enjoy My covenant.”

In my opinion, the mind of the Imam is the true treasure of mankind. The Holy Prophet did something not yet done and that was to give birth to and nurturing a beneficial conscience. From the time of birth the Aga Khan was told about his circumstance in life, who he was, and how he might someday come to be. This no doubt shaped his psyche. It was these factors and ones like them which formed a unique reality. Who else is revered as Imam in our time? It is because of the attitudes of his people that the Aga Khan knows who he is.

 

 

I think one off-putting issue is the extreme and often far-fetched esoteric conclusions the Ismailis have reached. Additionally, a key issue is the manner in which the Imam operates. With all due respect, it doesnt look like he is attempting to establish the Law of God, nor abide by it himself. Hard to imagine Imam `Ali [a] chilling on cruises with women in bakinis [na'udhubillah] like the Agha Khan appears to have done. 

 

In regards to the Sharia, historically speaking, the Prophet and the early Imams stressed the importance of obeying the Law [sharia of Muhammad (sawa)] and this proving pivitol in our aspiration for Salvation. Yet, and I mean no disrespect, but it seems the current Ismailis and the Agha Khan have abandoned this tradition and no longer uphold the Sharia of Muhammad like the earlier Imams. 

 

Why do Ismaili women not dress in accordance with the Islamic dress code, which happens to be agreed upon by every single legal school amongst both the Shii and Sunni branches. Not sure how this ijma that even the previous Imams [as] upheld can just be overturned by later Ismaili Imams. Please explain this.

 

The 5 daily prayers, unless I'm mistaken, seem to have been abandoned, at least in the form of the Prophet's sunnah. 

 

 

Do you believe in a physical resurrection? What is Yawm al-Qiyama in Ismailism? 

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I think one off-putting issue is the extreme and often far-fetched esoteric conclusions the Ismailis have reached. Additionally, a key issue is the manner in which the Imam operates. With all due respect, it doesnt look like he is attempting to establish the Law of God, nor abide by it himself. Hard to imagine Imam `Ali [a] chilling on cruises with women in bakinis [na'udhubillah] like the Agha Khan appears to have done. 

 

In regards to the Sharia, historically speaking, the Prophet and the early Imams stressed the importance of obeying the Law [sharia of Muhammad Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå] and this proving pivitol in our aspiration for Salvation. Yet, and I mean no disrespect, but it seems the current Ismailis and the Agha Khan have abandoned this tradition and no longer uphold the Sharia of Muhammad like the earlier Imams. 

 

Why do Ismaili women not dress in accordance with the Islamic dress code, which happens to be agreed upon by every single legal school amongst both the Shii and Sunni branches. Not sure how this ijma that even the previous Imams [as] upheld can just be overturned by later Ismaili Imams. Please explain this.

 

The 5 daily prayers, unless I'm mistaken, seem to have been abandoned, at least in the form of the Prophet's sunnah. 

 

 

Do you believe in a physical resurrection? What is Yawm al-Qiyama in Ismailism?

Do you like the old time religion?

Do you like having a system of beliefs and values that never change?

Doesn't a boy grow into an old man and yet remain the same man?

What is religion if it doesn't change with us?

The only thing constant in religion is the Imam of the time. And for that reason the religion grows, it burgeons. The Imam of the time is the catalyst within religion, a necessity to fulfill the covenant between believer and imam.

“To you has come a messenger, from among your number,

Aggrieved by the hardship you suffer,

Concerned for you,

Tender and compassionate towards the believers.”

This relationship is made into a covenant which the Ismaili imams follow in context with the above verse.

“O believers, obey God and obey the Prophet and those set in authority over you.”

“O believers, do not betray God and His Messenger, nor betray your undertakings knowingly.”

“Those who pay you homage are in fact paying homage to God – the hand of God rests above their own.”

Every Imam is Ali, and every Ali is the Mahdi. Do not forget the essence of religion:

“O Messenger, convey what has been revealed to you from your Lord. If you do not, you will not have passed on His message.”

“All things have We tallied in a Manifest Record (imamin mubeen).”

In a theatrical way I'll say to the point of resurrection, what does resurrection matter when heaven is with the Imam? Don't you see the angels in great delight nor hear their symphonies? God is greater, I am in heaven!

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The more I read this thread the more I feel that is a proselytysing spam thread.

He claims to have been a 12er who has been inspired to convert to Ismailiism.

In order to square the circle he has adopted a couple of unique beliefs that are not to be found in 12er doctrine or Ismaili doctrine.

Firstly that all the 12 Imams had some sort of legitimacy as guides. (paraphrasing) 

Secondly and more seriously that his 'current Imam' (Agha Khan) does not have to be a descendant of the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp), he just has to believe he is.

You may be aware of the circles of belief (my interpretation) of Ismailiism. After study and acceptance you are admitted into ever inner circles where more and more of the truth is revealed to you.

So in the outer circle you are all things to all men. The Inner circles are where you are taught to reject your former beliefs and blindly follow others.

Standard ensnarement and brainwash techniques 

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Because before, Alevis were mostly known as Sufi Turk during the 1200s, than 1500s kizilbash, and since 1800s and 1900s we are known as Alevis

Due to prosecution of the ottomans and kurds, Alevis were exiled and assimilated in various forms, some were far apart from each other, this is why there is still similarities but some have defined theirselves as another I. E ismailies etc

If you look back they have the same ancestor tree that goes back to horasan 

 

Seyh Ahmet and Seyh Hasan 

 

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On 5/3/2016 at 11:57 PM, A true Sunni said:

The more I read this thread the more I feel that is a proselytysing spam thread.

He claims to have been a 12er who has been inspired to convert to Ismailiism.

In order to square the circle he has adopted a couple of unique beliefs that are not to be found in 12er doctrine or Ismaili doctrine.

Firstly that all the 12 Imams had some sort of legitimacy as guides. (paraphrasing) 

Secondly and more seriously that his 'current Imam' (Agha Khan) does not have to be a descendant of the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp), he just has to believe he is.

You may be aware of the circles of belief (my interpretation) of Ismailiism. After study and acceptance you are admitted into ever inner circles where more and more of the truth is revealed to you.

So in the outer circle you are all things to all men. The Inner circles are where you are taught to reject your former beliefs and blindly follow others.

Standard ensnarement and brainwash techniques 

Kinda like the ones Papa Khomeini used, amirite? ;)

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40 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

12er Shia havent this concentric circles of secrecy, with only the adept allowed into the inner secrets. Not sure what you are referring to

I meant standard ensnarement and brainwash techniques.

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7 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

All religions employ methods or elements of brainwashing. 

You're opinion I guess.

But why blame the Aga Khan for this? I admit that I am very, very uneasy with just how insanely rich he is while some of his people remain poor. And some of his more excessive lifestyle choices.

But he's a decent guy. He contributes to society with his absolutely massive charities and his championing of a peaceful form of Islam. 

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