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He Wanted To Become Muslim, But Died..died...


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#1 Ali-F

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:52 AM

Asalamu alaykum

 

A christian wants to become a muslim. He wakes up, with a fresh mind, because today he's going to take the shahada in the masjid. He can't wait. He puts his jacket on, and open the door. Today he don't want to take the car, but take the bike. He's now moving ahead to the masjid. Unfortuneatly, a drunk driver hits the christian man, and then he dies in the hospital. He wanted to take the shahda - it was his niyaa, but died on the way. He haven't said it yet.

 

1. Will this person be treated as a muslim? Or a kafir, who rejected al-Haq?

 

 



#2 realizm

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:19 AM

Salam

 

I guess in that particular case it depends, treated by who ?



#3 Grief

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:16 AM

True niyya = action.

So he was a Muslim.
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#4 khamosh21

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:52 PM

How do you come up with these questions and why does it matter?

#5 CLynn

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:58 PM

My answer...

depends on which is the right path...

Yahshua the Christ,

 or muslim...

God knows what is in the heart and who belongs to Him. :)

God will judge by what is in the heart... I think it's about alot more than being 'muslim', or 'Christian'.


Edited by CLynn, 10 October 2013 - 01:00 PM.

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#6 Grief

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 02:55 PM

How do you come up with these questions and why does it matter?

I know a Christian who actually did die from a car accident that was on the verge of becoming a Muslim. True story.


My answer...

depends on which is the right path...

Yahshua the Christ,

 or muslim...

God knows what is in the heart and who belongs to Him. :)

God will judge by what is in the heart... I think it's about alot more than being 'muslim', or 'Christian'.

Heart definitely matters most. Within Islam itself it is deemed possible for some Christians to go to heaven because of their pure hearts.


Edited by BuggyLemon, 10 October 2013 - 02:54 PM.

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#7 khamosh21

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:00 PM

I know a Christian who actually did die from a car accident that was on the verge of becoming a Muslim. True story.

Heart definitely matters most. Within Islam itself it is deemed possible for some Christians to go to heaven because of their pure hearts.


Still doesn't impact you or Ali-F

#8 Grief

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:20 PM

 

Still doesn't impact you or Ali-F

It's an interesting philosophical discussion.


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#9 Omer2708

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

BuggyLemon is right.


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#10 aliasghark

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:31 PM

My answer...

depends on which is the right path...

Yahshua the Christ,

 or muslim...

 

Do Christians believe that only Christians can go to heaven? 



#11 CLynn

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:39 PM

Do Christians believe that only Christians can go to heaven? 

 

Greetings aliasghark,

 

Does it matter what 'Christians' believe?

To my mind, it matters what God decides.  I only need to worry about myself.

Personally I think there are many muslims who will be deserving of heaven and will earn heaven when they come to know the Truth of Yahshua... which I believe everyone will (that wants to be saved) during the tribulation time.  I can think of many muslim brothers and sisters that I would hope to meet in heaven.

In heaven there will not be 'Christians', or Jews, or muslims... just people whose hearts belong to God.

 

Salaam,

CLynn


Edited by CLynn, 10 October 2013 - 03:41 PM.


#12 aliasghark

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

Greetings aliasghark,

 

Does it matter what 'Christians' believe?

To my mind, it matters what God decides.  I only need to worry about myself.

Personally I think there are many muslims who will be deserving of heaven and will earn heaven when they come to know the Truth of Yahshua... which I believe everyone will (that wants to be saved) during the tribulation time.

In heaven there will not be 'Christians', or Jews, or muslims... just people whose hearts belong to God.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

I'll take that as a yes, Christians think only Christians will go to heaven. 

 

In Islam, Muslims think that Christians and Jews can also go to heaven. The Quran is a bit more accepting in that sense. 


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#13 Omer2708

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:45 PM

I'll take that as a yes, Christians think only Christians will go to heaven. 

 

In Islam, Muslims think that Christians and Jews can also go to heaven. The Quran is a bit more accepting in that sense. 

 

There is a verse about Christians and jews, thinking they only go in heaven. If you remember the verse, if not I will bring it.


Edited by Omer2708, 10 October 2013 - 03:45 PM.


#14 CLynn

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:48 PM

I'll take that as a yes, Christians think only Christians will go to heaven. 

 

In Islam, Muslims think that Christians and Jews can also go to heaven. The Quran is a bit more accepting in that sense. 

 

Greetings aliasghark,

 

Well then you take it wrong, and ascribe meaning to my words not as they were meant,

and I am sorry about that.

 

Salaam,

Clynn

 

and I must challenge you because according to what I understand islam says that God will only accept those who take the shahada... in other words must be considered muslims.

 

3:85  And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

 

Now if this means that I do not have to accept Muhammad but only have to be submitted to God, as it says here:

 

3:84  Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

 

and as long as Allah and the God of Yahshua are the same,

then I am good.


Edited by CLynn, 10 October 2013 - 04:08 PM.


#15 aliasghark

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:59 PM

Greetings aliasghark,

 

Well then you take it wrong, and put meaning on my words that are not my own,

and I am sorry about that.

 

Salaam,

Clynn

 

You're free to 'correct' it, but since you don't I think the answer is clear. Sorry :) 


There is a verse about Christians and jews, thinking they only go in heaven. If you remember the verse, if not I will bring it.

 

and I must challenge you because according to what I understand islam says that God will only accept those who take the shahada... in other words must be considered muslims.

 

 

These two verses of the holy Quran tell us that those who have faith and Christians and Jews, and those who do good and believe in God and the day of judgement, they don't need to worry. 


http://quran.com/2/62

http://quran.com/5/69


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#16 Faithfully999

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:56 PM

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim  In The Name of Allaah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful.  As salaamu alaykum, The Peace (of God) Be Upon You.

 

 

 

 

002.225 لا يُؤَاخِذُكُمُ اللَّهُ بِاللَّغْوِ فِي أَيْمَانِكُمْ وَلَكِنْ يُؤَاخِذُكُمْ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ قُلُوبُكُمْ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ حَلِيمٌ
002.225 Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.   Al-Qur'an, 002.225 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])

 

 

 

 

Wassalaam.   Faithfully999


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#17 haideriam

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:35 AM

Died as a muslim, Jannah with a clean slate.

#18 Ali Musaaa :)

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:45 AM

How could he die as a kaffir if he had acknowledged the truth of Islam and was on his way to publicly declare it? The people at the Mosque didn't see his heart say: 'La ilaha ilAllah Muhammadan RasoolAllah' but God did.

You're free to 'correct' it, but since you don't I think the answer is clear. Sorry :) 
 

 


 
These two verses of the holy Quran tell us that those who have faith and Christians and Jews, and those who do good and believe in God and the day of judgement, they don't need to worry. http://quran.com/2/62
http://quran.com/5/69


Have you read the Tafsir of those verses?

Don't kid yourself into thinking God is going to give free pass to people who rejected His Prophet's and called them and Him liars.
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#19 aliasghark

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

How could he die as a kaffir if he had acknowledged the truth of Islam and was on his way to publicly declare it? The people at the Mosque didn't see his heart say: 'La ilaha ilAllah Muhammadan RasoolAllah' but God did.

Have you read the Tafsir of those verses?

Don't kid yourself into thinking God is going to give free pass to people who rejected His Prophet's and called them and Him liars.

 

Whoa dude I didn't say that. 



#20 Ali Musaaa :)

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:48 AM

Whoa dude I didn't say that.

You're right. I'm sorry. I know you didn't. What I meant was, the way you said it implied a general rule for all Christians and Jews like theapparent meaning of the verse gives. However, we know that isn't the case because of the more explicit verses and the many Ahadith that deal with this topic. It's late I should get to bed. Sorry for coming off harsh bro, I hadn't meant too.

People like CLynn will get the wrong idea. God has promised Heaven to the believers, essentially those who meet the criteria of 'belief'. Rejecting a prophet would mean one hasn't met that criteria. But at the end of the day everyone's circumstances are different and unique and God will not judge two human beings from the time of Adam [a] till the end of time the same. We all have had in one way or another a different path to walk on in our journey to the Divine and some may have had more exposure to the truth than others. God is just and He won't do any injustice to anyone on that Day. And in all honesty, I hope we all get in. I want all you guys in paradise (yes, even you CLynn :P ). Perhaps the problem is we are too preoccupied with salvation of others too see we gotta deal with our own first.

Edited by Ali Musaaa :), 11 October 2013 - 09:52 AM.

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#21 CLynn

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:55 PM

 Perhaps the problem is we are too preoccupied with salvation of others too see we gotta deal with our own first.

 

* Like

 

Pretty much what I was saying in my post #11, don't know if you saw it.

 

According to the verses I quoted from the qur'an, I do not have to accept Muhammad, as long as I am submitted to the 'one true God'.

I don't need to accept Muhammad, I have Yahshua.

Muhammad came to lead a different people out of idolism.

and as I said, it only applies if Allah and the God of Yahshua are the same...

and if they are not, I'm still good.

 

Salaam. :)


Edited by CLynn, 11 October 2013 - 03:57 PM.


#22 aliasghark

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

'Allah' is the Arabic word for 'God'. 

 

CLynn probably thinks 'Allah' means 'mood God' for some weird reason. 



#23 Grief

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

* Like

 

Pretty much what I was saying in my post #11, don't know if you saw it.

 

According to the verses I quoted from the qur'an, I do not have to accept Muhammad, as long as I am submitted to the 'one true God'.

I don't need to accept Muhammad, I have Yahshua.

Muhammad came to lead a different people out of idolism.

and as I said, it only applies if Allah and the God of Yahshua are the same...

and if they are not, I'm still good.

 

Salaam. :)

Allah = God, but Yashua's message was distorted by humans (is what we believe, and you are entitled to your beliefs about the Quran and Islam if they are based on logical evidence).


Edited by BuggyLemon, 11 October 2013 - 04:32 PM.

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#24 CLynn

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:40 PM

Allah = God, but Yashua's message was distorted by humans (is what we believe, and you are entitled to your beliefs about the Quran and Islam if they are based on logical evidence).

 

Greetings BuggyLemon,

 

Just curious...

In what way do you think Yahshua's message was distorted?

Are you familiar with Yahshua's teachings?

 

Salaam,

CLynn



#25 A true Sunni

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:41 PM

Allah knows what is in your heart and what is on your tongue. The Shahada is only a verbalisation of what is in your heart. He became muslim the moment he made the Niyat to do so


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