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Ayatollah Khamenei - Fatwa On Transgender

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46 minutes ago, yusur317 said:

Brothers and sisters really need to pick up a book or google search studies/articles and read before assuming things. A very poor argument inshallah (op). 

I think this is a little harsh. His argument makes sense, and is reasonable, there's just more to consider, that's all.

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3 hours ago, .InshAllah. said:

You could argue that one difference is that in removing the left hand, you are removing a fully functional part of your body.  But the same holds if you remove female breasts or male reproductive organs.

But a one handed person is pretty unanimously seen as defective. Neither gender can be considered a defect. 

I'm trying to come up with a better analogy than amputation, but I'm drawing a blank. Tattooing? Body piercing? Leg lengthening surgery? 

Actually, yes, cosmetic surgery is a much better analogy. A person with a perfectly healthy nose decides they want a different nose. It might not be able to smell, but it will look the way they want. 

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20 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

I think this is a little harsh. His argument makes sense, and is reasonable, there's just more to consider, that's all.

Maybe I was. His arguement doesn't make much sense to me. I'll revise it tomorrow morning. I might be too tired to make sense of anything. 

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4 minutes ago, notme said:

But a one handed person is pretty unanimously seen as defective. Neither gender can be considered a defect. 

I'm trying to come up with a better analogy than amputation, but I'm drawing a blank. Tattooing? Body piercing? Leg lengthening surgery? 

Actually, yes, cosmetic surgery is a much better analogy. A person with a perfectly healthy nose decides they want a different nose. It might not be able to smell, but it will look the way they want. 

Well in cases which place a risk for greater damage of functionality, surgeons should turn patients down. Sense of smell should not be lost permanently post-op. In cases where issues arise, like breathing problems, patients undergo secondary rhinoplasty. I have seen cosmetic surgery do wonders for both brothers and sisters. It gives them a confidence boost and consequently an improvement in quality of life. It can effect all aspects of life. Shallow things can ruin people (e.g. depression), especially in a superficial world like our own. No exceptions in the muslim shia community. Though care must be taken in identifying individuals with body dysmorphic disorder.

Alhamdulilah we are happy and healthy the way we are, but let's not undermine what others are going through. 

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@yusur317 the confidence boost that patients get from cosmetic surgery, would that be similar to the confidence boost certain individuals might get from gender reassignment surgery? 

 

35 minutes ago, yusur317 said:

Though care must be taken in identifying individuals with body dysmorphic disorder.

And I suspect this probably would be something to watch for if a person is seeking gender reassignment surgery too. Don't the doctors have criteria that the patient must meet before surgery will be done? Psychological tests and mental health history and all that? 

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Aren't these types of surgeries actually promoted in Iran?  In fact, Iran does more gender reassignment surgeries than any other country except for Thailand.  

There are some legitimate cases where I think surgery is an option, such as androgen insensitivity syndrome and congenital adrenal hyperplasia.

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Thoughts?  This kind of garbage is perverted imaginings by seriously underdeveloped personalities.

3 hours ago, notme said:

But a one handed person is pretty unanimously seen as defective. Neither gender can be considered a defect. 

I'm trying to come up with a better analogy than amputation, but I'm drawing a blank. Tattooing? Body piercing? Leg lengthening surgery? 

Actually, yes, cosmetic surgery is a much better analogy. A person with a perfectly healthy nose decides they want a different nose. It might not be able to smell, but it will look the way they want. 

Analogy or Definition?  How about "self-defacing" ?

1 hour ago, coldcow said:

Aren't these types of surgeries actually promoted in Iran?  In fact, Iran does more gender reassignment surgeries than any other country except for Thailand.  :sign_no: You need to provide a citation for this assertion.

 

There are some legitimate cases where I think surgery is an option, such as androgen insensitivity syndrome and congenital adrenal hyperplasia.   How about for a morphadite ?

:mod:   WARNING   :fever: <---Sick news follows:  

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6794/sex-change-children     available at age 12

And in a continuance of twisted emotional imaginings:  http://www.newstarget.com/2016-11-04-once-banned-sex-with-robots-conference-taking-place-at-london-university.html

From a television report this past year, l know that these "sexbots' are already being sold. This maybe only a fad or a niche market in-the-future because of advances in mind/mental research which will lead to "extreme sex" substitutes as mildly portrayed in the movie Brainstorm (about 1983, Natalie Woods' last film release).  :offtopic:   I won't explain this except to Mod-approved adults. Inferences can be found with a little on-line research.

The "Amerikan-first" was Christine Jorgensen beginning in 1951 in Copenhagen. Most of this was done in Sweden (in the 60s and 70s "go to Sweden" and like-expressed referred to this).

Edited by hasanhh
Christine

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7 hours ago, E.L King said:

No one is born as a tranny

People are born with all kinds of disorders and mutations, a number of which primarily only affect the micro or macrostructure of the brain. People are arguing that transexuality is also one of these conditions whereby the connections that map together to define gender do not correlate withe the external sex.

If people can be born with both sexual organs, no sexual organs, male born with female characteristics due to hormonal problems, and all other kinds of mutations, why can't people be born with a brain disorder?

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9 hours ago, notme said:

 

Actually, yes, cosmetic surgery is a much better analogy. A person with a perfectly healthy nose decides they want a different nose. It might not be able to smell, but it will look the way they want. 

I would argue that a person with a deviated septum is a better example. Transexuals have some scientific backing for what they say, i.e your brain is as important a 'sex' organ than the external, and in transexuals, there is a clear difference in their micro-structure and how it maps, and so they can not be considered to have perfectly healthy biology, like someone would a normal nose may have.

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52 minutes ago, uponthesunnah said:

People are born with all kinds of disorders and mutations, a number of which primarily only affect the micro or macrostructure of the brain. People are arguing that transexuality is also one of these conditions whereby the connections that map together to define gender do not correlate withe the external sex.

If people can be born with both sexual organs, no sexual organs, male born with female characteristics due to hormonal problems, and all other kinds of mutations, why can't people be born with a brain disorder?

Because it is against nature.

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1 hour ago, uponthesunnah said:

Transexuals have some scientific backing for what they say,

Maybe. I don't know. I've only known one "transexual" person in my life, and he/she was mentally ill and had been molested as a child, so one might question the stability of his/her thought processes. 

Not having any examples to the contrary, I'd default to trusting the judgement of doctors and scientists, and at least some Islamic scholars. 

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21 hours ago, uponthesunnah said:

Just to add , there are those born with both genital organs, would you argue it is mutilation [and not in the technical sense, because circumcision is also mutilation]  but in the negative connotation of needless damage of a perfectly healthy functioning and proper form for the sake of a mental disorder?

We would argue no, there is a physical basis i.e two genitals, and this is why it's justify to help return the person to proper order. The same may apply for someone whose brain is of a gender their genitalia and outward sex is not matched to.

I appreciate your posts uponthesunnah.  In the case you mention I wouldnt view it as mutilation because it is fixing a physical abnormality.  Having both sexual organs is physically abnormal.  

Is someone who has male gonads physically abnormal in virtue of having male gonads?  I would argue that if they have XY chromosomes (ie are genetically male), have the usual male hormones, the usual male body build, the usual male organs and secondary sexual characteristics, then their having male gonads does not constitute an abnormality.

Now maybe they strongly identify with the female sex, and (per the useful video you posted), have some female brain characteristics.  What does that mean?  Honestly Im not sure - I need to look more into this.  For one, I would want evidence that the female brain characteristics did not develop later on.  We know that the brain is plastic, and changes due to environmental influences.  If these changes came later, and are not natural, then this confirms that the person is truly naturally male.  The problem is in the brain not the body, but people are trying to fix this by cutting off healthy parts of the body which seems wrong.  If you have any papers/videos about this then I'd be interested to see.

 

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On 12/16/2016 at 0:37 AM, hasanhh said:

Thoughts?  This kind of garbage is perverted imaginings by seriously underdeveloped personalities.

Analogy or Definition?  How about "self-defacing" ?

:mod:   WARNING   :fever: <---Sick news follows:  

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6794/sex-change-children     available at age 12

And in a continuance of twisted emotional imaginings:  http://www.newstarget.com/2016-11-04-once-banned-sex-with-robots-conference-taking-place-at-london-university.html

From a television report this past year, l know that these "sexbots' are already being sold. This maybe only a fad or a niche market in-the-future because of advances in mind/mental research which will lead to "extreme sex" substitutes as mildly portrayed in the movie Brainstorm (about 1983, Natalie Woods' last film release).  :offtopic:   I won't explain this except to Mod-approved adults. Inferences can be found with a little on-line research.

The "Amerikan-first" was Christine Jorgensen beginning in 1951 in Copenhagen. Most of this was done in Sweden (in the 60s and 70s "go to Sweden" and like-expressed referred to this).

Sources, as requested:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7259057.stm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/iran-sex-change-operation_n_1568604.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rAaBJoOqpk
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/10/iran-subsidizes-sex-change-surgery.html

Regarding your question about "morphadite" I think you mean hermaphrodite.  That's not an actual condition, it's the result of ambiguous genitalia due to condition such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia or when internal organs don't match external genitalia (androgen insensitvity syndrome).

 

Edited by coldcow

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@coldcow

My age is showing. Originally, morphrodite had the same meaning.

As the HuffPo article said, Thailand has more of these mutilations.

What l read in the one article, from a fatwa and 6+ psychiatrist recommendations, this is more like a treatment for mental illness.

Thanx for the references.

 

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49 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

As the HuffPo article said, Thailand has more of these mutilations.

What l read in the one article, from a fatwa and 6+ psychiatrist recommendations, this is more like a treatment for mental illness.

Thanx for the references.

 

Right, I said in my original post that Iran was 2nd only to Thailand.  

No problem.

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On 17/10/2016 at 2:46 PM, Javad, said:

Salaam buddy!

Actually it's not allowed to change it but allowed to reveal it.

Most Ayatollahs have allowed to reveal it because there are people that when they come to an age their bodies change shape to something between a man and a woman (transsexual). In this situation the life will become intolerable for them as they can't marry to men or women etc. and that's why Ayatollahs have allowed them to reveal their desired gender by undergoing a surgery. So they have their choice to continue their previous gender or change into the opposite.

No need to say that this operation is not allowed to be done by normal people at all!

What you said is true I am saying which nimaz e jinaza should be prayed at that time

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On 10/17/2016 at 9:19 AM, Sarwar Ali 121 said:

I have read from Internet that changing gender is allowed in shia community,is it true?
And if it is true then take an example of a man who has changed his gender into woman and at the time

Well, dear brother in Islam,  sex change is one of the controversial issues. A lot has been said by different people.  I want to acquaint you with what Ayatollah Sistani has said.

The rules for who is allowed to get a gender assignment operation are very strict. It is a permissible option only for those who are truly transgendered, not just someone who wakes up one morning and decides he wants a change.

When it comes to Grand Ayatollah Sistani's view about 'sex change', you must note that there are two types of surgeries regarding sex change. The first surgery is what occurs in the contemporary world, where a man changes his genitals into female genitals and takes female hormone medication or a woman changes her genitals into male genitals and takes male hormone medication. This type of surgery does not result in one’s sex being changed according to Sayyid Sistani. That means the surgery is useless and one exposes his/her private parts thus rendering it haram. The second form of surgery described as changing one’s external genitals and internal sexual organs along with hormone medication. This would mean, for instance, that a man who changes into a female would be able to bear children. Medicine has not evolved to the point where this is possible in the contemporary world. But, Sayyid Sistani states that if this takes place in the future one’s sex would change and he/she would become the opposite gender.

Sayyid Sistani also addresses both potential problems in these answers. First, he gives permission when both internal organs and external genitals are changed, but prohibits the change of only external genitals per exposure of private parts. Thus, clearly leaving room for future enhancements of the surgery. Sayyid Sistani also clearly states that after the surgery one would have the rulings of the new gender.

Therefore, the Islamic position is that in and of itself there is no problem with changing one’s sex. But, in doing so, the person must refrain from all prohibited acts. If one sins and exposes his or her private parts for the procedure and then successfully changes sex, then the rulings of the new gender will apply to him. The sin of exposing one’s private parts may be mitigated if it can be proven that it was done out of necessity. And Allah knows best.

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On 10/17/2016 at 10:49 AM, Sarwar Ali 121 said:

Salam-un-Alaikum 

I have read from Internet that changing gender is allowed in shia community,is it true?
And if it is true then take an example of a man who has changed his gender into woman and at the time when she dies what Nimaz-e-Jinaza should be read to her.
A man's jinaza because she was first a man
or a women's jinaza because she is a woman now.

This is not allowed for any normal male or female to change their gender except those who have abnormalities. 

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Transsexuality in Iran
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Part of a series on
Transgender topics
Transgender pride flag
Gender identities
Agender, genderless Androgyne Bigender Genderqueer, non-binary Gender bender Hijra Pangender Queer heterosexuality Third gender Trans man Trans woman Transmasculine Transfeminine Trigender Two-Spirit
Health care and medicine
Gender dysphoria In children Health care Pregnancy Sex reassignment Therapy Surgery To female To male Transsexual Detransition
Rights issues
Discrimination Inequality Non-binary Transmisogyny Transphobia Rights Movement Non-binary, third gender Organizations Toilets Bathroom bills Unisex Violence Trans bashing Unlawful killings Yogyakarta Principles
Society and culture
Characters Fictional Film and television LGBT-related films Events Awareness Week Day of Remembrance Day of Visibility March LGBT Flags History People Non-binary Publications Transitioning Sports Youth more
Theory and concepts
Ambiphilia, androphilia, gynephilia Childhood gender nonconformity Cisgender, cissexual Cross-dressing Gender identity Genderism Gender binary Gender-sexuality questioning Gender variance Postgenderism Transfeminism Transmisogyny
By country
Argentina Australia Rights Re Kevin Brazil Canada Bill C-16, 2016 Rights China Germany India Rights of Transgender Persons Bill, 2014 Tamil Nadu Iran Ireland New Zealand Singapore South Africa Turkey United Kingdom Rights Gender Recognition Act 2004 United States Cafeteria riot Disenfranchisement History Rights Law Title IX
See also
Gender Intersex LGBT Sex sex assignment Sex and gender distinction Sexual orientation
Portal Transgender.svg Transgender portal
v t e
Before the Islamic Revolution in 1979, the issue of trans identity in Iran had never been officially addressed by the government. Beginning in the mid-1980s, however, transgender individuals were officially recognized by the government and allowed to undergo sex reassignment surgery. As of 2008, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except for Thailand. The government provides up to half the cost for those needing financial assistance, and a sex change is recognised on the birth certificate.[1]

Contents  [hide] 
1    History
1.1    Pre-1979
1.2    After the Revolution
1.3    Present day
2    See also
3    Notes
4    References
5    Further reading
6    External links
History[edit]
Pre-1979[edit]
In 1963, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini wrote a book in which he stated that there was no religious restriction on corrective surgery for intersex individuals, though this did not apply to those without physical ambiguity in sex organs. At the time Khomeini was a radical, anti-Shah revolutionary and his fatwas did not carry any weight with the Imperial government, which did not have any specific policies regarding transgender individuals.[1]

After the Revolution[edit]
The new religious government that came to be established after the 1979 Iranian Revolution classed transgender people and crossdressers with gays and lesbians, who were condemned in shah's era and faced the punishment of lashing or even death under Iran's penal code.

One early campaigner for transgender rights was Maryam Hatoon Molkara, who had been assigned male at birth but identified as female. Before the revolution, she had longed to become physically female but could not afford surgery and wanted religious authorization. In 1975, she began to write letters to Khomeini, who was to become the leader of the revolution and was in exile. After the revolution, she was fired, forcedly injected with male hormones, and institutionalized. She was later released with help from her connections and continued to lobby many other leaders. Later she went to see Khomeini, who had returned to Iran. During this visit, she was subjected to beatings from his guards. Khomeini, however, did give her a letter to authorize her sex reassignment operation, which she later did in 1997.[2] Due to this fatwa, issued in 1987, transgender women in Iran have been able to live as women until they can afford surgery, have surgical reassignment, have their birth certificates and all official documents issued to them in their new gender, and get married to men.[3]

Present day[edit]
Khomeini's original fatwa has since been reconfirmed by the current leader of Iran, Ali Khamenei, and is also supported by many other Iranian clerics.[1] However, there is still a great deal of stigma attached to the idea of transgender and gender reassignment in ordinary Iranian society, and most transgender people, after completing their transition, are advised to maintain discretion about their past.[1] Once a transgender individual has undergone sex reassignment, that person legally becomes the new sex. All legal documents, such as birth certificates and passports, are also changed accordingly.[1]

Hojatoleslam Kariminia, a mid-level cleric who is in favor of transgender rights, has stated that he wishes "to suggest that the right of transsexuals to change their gender is a human right" and that he is attempting to "introduce transsexuals to the people through my work and in fact remove the stigma or the insults that is attach to these people."[2]

UNHCR's 2001 report says that sex reassignment surgery is performed frequently and openly in Iran, and that homosexual and cross-dressing people, although unrelated to trans identity, would be safe as long as they keep a low profile.[3] However, the Safra Project's 2004 report considers UNHCR's report over-optimistic. The Safra Project's report suggests that UNHCR underestimated legal pressure over transgender and LGBT matters.[citation needed]

The Safra Project report further states that currently, it is not possible for presumed transgender individuals to choose not to undergo surgery - if they are approved for sex reassignment, they are expected to undergo treatment immediately. Those who wish to remain "non-operative" (as well as those who cross-dress and/or identify as genderqueer) are considered their gender assigned at birth, and as such they are likely to face harassment as being homosexuals and subject to the same laws barring homosexual acts.[4]

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See also[edit]

Notes[edit]

References[edit]

Further reading[edit]

  • Najmabadi, Afsaneh. "What Can We Learn From Transsexuality in Iran?". In: Schreiber, Gerhard. Transsexuality in Theology and Neuroscience: Findings, Controversies, and Perspectives. Berlin and Boston: Walter de Gruyter 2016 (ISBN 978-3-11-044080-5), pp. 175-194.
  • Bluck, Sahar. "Transsexual in Iran: A Fatwa for Freedom?" (Chapter 3). In: Pullen, Christopher. LGBT Transnational Identity and the Media. Palgrave Macmillan. 29 February 2012. ISBN 0230353517, 9780230353510.
  • Iran's 'diagnosed transsexuals' (BBC News, 25 February 2008)

External links[edit]

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

http://www.ibtimes.com/iran-transgender-law-islamic-republic-advances-bill-protect-transsexuals-amid-1940978

Iran Transgender Law: Islamic Republic Advances Bill To ‘Protect Transsexuals’ Amid Crackdown On Gay Rights

BY LORA MOFTAH @LORAMOFTAH ON 05/27/15 AT 6:59 PM
  •  
  •  
  •  
 
 

Iran-Sex-Change-ParliamentIran's parliament advanced a bill this week that will strengthen legal protections for transsexual Iranians. A member of parliament is pictured walking past pictures of Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and late leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini (left) in parliament in Tehran, Nov. 1, 2011. Photo: Reuters

Iran advanced a bill in parliament this week that would strengthen legal protections for transgender people in the country -- a seemingly contradictory step for a country where homosexuality is not only criminalized but in some cases punishable by death.

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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