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Is Abortion Like Burying Your Child Alive?


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#1 Mojtaba1

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:55 PM

Assalamu alaykum brothers and sisters.

What do you think?

#2 kadhim

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:36 PM

No, it's like ripping your child apart with metal clamps and a high powered vacuum cleaner.
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#3 Faithful Dome

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:11 PM

No!!! Abortion is allowed in extreme situations but burying children alive is not allowed in Any situation whatsoever!
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#4 Mojtaba1

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:19 AM

But what do you think about the sin itself, is it as great as burying your own child?

#5 polymath07

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:08 PM

No!!! Abortion is allowed in extreme situations but burying children alive is not allowed in Any situation whatsoever!


Exactly. Which is why it annoyed me to no end when Ammar Nakshwani compared abortion to the burying of babies, a sort of modern "period of ignorance," in a lecture he did last year, a terrible one about the Mehdi. It's really offensive. I'd expect a scholar to have more sense.

#6 Maryaam

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:13 PM

I don't understand how the sin can be different based solely on means of death as the end result is the same.. They are both intentionally dead. They more than likely were both killed for their gender - both in the past (burying) and in today (abortion). The only difference may be in how much they suffered. 


Edited by Maryaam, 25 August 2013 - 09:28 PM.


#7 Ali-F

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 04:52 AM

Exactly. Which is why it annoyed me to no end when Ammar Nakshwani compared abortion to the burying of babies, a sort of modern "period of ignorance," in a lecture he did last year, a terrible one about the Mehdi. It's really offensive. I'd expect a scholar to have more sense.

 

 

yeah, and so what? maybe Sayed Ammar (not Ammar Nakshawani as you wrote it) thougt of the situations which weren't extreme...take a step back and relax



#8 TheIslamHistory

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:50 AM

If a child is in the womb, then yes I would say so. 

But thats only an opinion, We should perhaps see what Islam says.

Any resources Anybody?



#9 Yushaa

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:49 AM

I find it interesting that Allah Jalla Jalaalahu mentions how it is a great crime to kill children in the Pure Quran in no less than six different verses. Traditionally this is interpreted as the ancient pagan Arab practice of burying daughters as having daughters was seen as a disgrace to Arab honor.

 

However, if you study carefully, you realize that

1. the verses talk about children in general - no distinction between boys or girls

 

2. the verses mention that the crime of killing children is from fear of poverty - not related to the issue of Arab honor for having boys and not girls

 

Now as Muslims we believe that the Pure Quran is a book of guidance from Allah, and its content is relevant for all generations. Why would Allah repeatedly warn against killing children if this was an isolated practice of one culture (the Arabs) which died out centuries ago? It makes more sense that here Allah knows that in future abortion will become something very common and taken for granted, even justified (however sick it is to justify killing of unborn children). Therefore, I really would like Muslims to know that abortion is a very, very evil thing, and please don't ever justify it, much less ever perform an abortion.

 

According to a Hadith, Hazrat Mehboub-i-Kibriya (Sallallaahu alaihi wa aalihe wasallam) said the greatest sin after committing shirk is

أَنْ تَقْتُلَ وَلَدَكَ خَشْيَةَ أَنْ يَطْعَمَ مَعَك

To kill your son for fear that he will eat with you

 

And is this not the major reason why women commit abortion? They say "we are too young to have kids" or "we can't afford any more kids"...so they end up having an abortion, killing the helpless, unborn, innocent child in the womb.

 

A verse in the Pure Quran which talks about the sin of killing children goes on to say:

 

"Kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law." (Surah 6:151)

 

If you look at abortion, you see that many people who commit abortions keep it secret and "hush hush", which is why Allah says "Whether open or secret; take not life"


Edited by Yushaa, 26 August 2013 - 06:50 AM.


#10 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:18 AM

Exactly. Which is why it annoyed me to no end when Ammar Nakshwani compared abortion to the burying of babies, a sort of modern "period of ignorance," in a lecture he did last year, a terrible one about the Mehdi. It's really offensive. I'd expect a scholar to have more sense.

 

I'm sure he was talking about abortion in situations where there are no special circumstances, like threat to the mother's health. And let's face it, the vast majority of abortions like that. Many people have abortions as a form of contraception, because the baby is a girl, out of fear of poverty, because it's not convenient (e.g. career-wise), etc. Those cases are precisely a modern-day form of burying babies alive, and one of the clearest indications of the utter decadence of this age.


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#11 Jamal Al Hasan

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:31 AM

Abortion is exactly like burying your child alive.


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#12 El Cid

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:32 AM

Technically there isn't even a child there in the first place, It's an underdeveloped fetus still taking roots. So you're practically killing a fetus or in most cases, nothing since a simple pill would do the trick. Grow up.


<-- Pro Abortion. Your body, Your choice. Not everyone is ready to be a parent, Better to just have an abortion if you're going to make your future child miserable or a future drug addict by your unfit parenting skills.



#13 kadhim

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:53 AM

It's not about "her body," genius. That hackneyed old copout "Oh, it's my body, I can do what I want with it"  is the worst ever.

Aside from religious concerns (A Muslim can't actually say, "Oh, I can do with my body as I please;" our bodies are not ours, but belong to God and are used by us in trust), it is not even correct from a biological perspective. In abortion, a woman doesn't do something to her body; she destroys someone else's. That someone else being her own child, making it doubly depraved and callous.


Edited by kadhim, 29 August 2013 - 10:54 AM.

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#14 El Cid

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:12 PM

It's not about "her body," genius. That hackneyed old copout "Oh, it's my body, I can do what I want with it"  is the worst ever.

Aside from religious concerns (A Muslim can't actually say, "Oh, I can do with my body as I please;" our bodies are not ours, but belong to God and are used by us in trust), it is not even correct from a biological perspective. In abortion, a woman doesn't do something to her body; she destroys someone else's. That someone else being her own child, making it doubly depraved and callous.

 

She destroys something that hasn't even taken roots yet, a fetus is the size of a pea and technically not even alive yet. Your not destroying anyone's life, Your halting before life takes it's place.  Abortion should be excercised in case of unfit parenting, rape, incest or if a child is known to be deformed. But then again it's all upto you. I stick with my opinion, won't change it. 


Edited by El Cid, 29 August 2013 - 12:18 PM.


#15 Jahangiram

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:19 PM

She destroys something that hasn't even taken roots yet, aside from the religious mumbo jumbo. Abortion should be excercised in case of unfit parenting, rape, incest or if a child is known to be deformed. But then again it's all upto you. I stick with my opinion, won't change it. 

Why you calling religion mumbo jumbo you muppet?


Edited by Jahangiram, 29 August 2013 - 12:20 PM.


#16 El Cid

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:25 PM

Why you calling religion mumbo jumbo you muppet?

 

I didn't.



#17 Mu3lam

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:25 AM

Yes, of course it's the same. All human beings have the right to life no matter what. Don't want the child? Adoption. End of story.

The only time I can see abortion as being permitted is if both mother and child would die without it. It is better to lose one life (the child's) than to lose two lives. Otherwise, there isn't an excuse in my opinion.

Abortion should be excercised in case of unfit parenting, rape, incest or if a child is known to be deformed..


Adoption, adoption, adoption, and modern medicine. The solutions to those problems, none of which involves murder.
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#18 El Cid

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:52 AM

Yes, of course it's the same. All human beings have the right to life no matter what. Don't want the child? Adoption. End of story.

The only time I can see abortion as being permitted is if both mother and child would die without it. It is better to lose one life (the child's) than to lose two lives. Otherwise, there isn't an excuse in my opinion.

Adoption, adoption, adoption, and modern medicine. The solutions to those problems, none of which involves murder.

 

That's hardly a solution to anything, Go through 9 months of labour and pain for an illegimate child of a man who raped you. :lol: Grow up.



#19 Mu3lam

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 08:45 AM

That's hardly a solution to anything, Go through 9 months of labour and pain for an illegimate child of a man who raped you.  :lol: Grow up.

 
Excuse me?  I'm the one that needs to grow up?  No, I think it's you.  Your ignorance knows no bounds, does it El Cid?  What do you think that the raped women have done for thousands of years?  Oh yeah.  They went through 9 months of pregnancy (oh wait, labour doesn't last for 9 months ... you aren't in the medical field, are you?) and then labour and childbirth whether they wanted to or not.  Is it fair?  No.  Is murdering an innocent child going to even the score and make things better?  Of course not.  Life is sacred and everybody has a right to it.  If there was an illegitimate (you spelled that word wrong, by the way) child in the jahilliya period, then it would have been buried.  In modern times, abortion is the new burial.  Shall we see what the Qur'an has to say about such things?
 
إذا الشمس كورت
وإذا النجوم انكدرت
وإذا الجبال سيرت
وإذا العشار عطلت
وإذا الوحوش حشرت
وإذا البحار سجرت
وإذا النفوس زوجت
وإذا الموءودة سئلت
بأي ذنب قتلت
وإذا الصحف نشرت
وإذا السماء كشطت
وإذا الجحيم سعرت
وإذا الجنة أزلفت
علمت نفس ما أحضرت
 
Do not get me wrong, I have the utmost compassion and sympathy for women that are raped.  Rapists deserve nothing but the most painful death imaginable.  And if I knew a woman that was raped, I would do everything in my power to make sure that she was taken care of; physically and emotionally.  Rape is a living hell, and I understand that.  I just don't think that it's a justification for murder.  But maybe it's just me.  I don't know why, but somehow I get the feeling that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì agrees with me.  Maybe it's the Qur'an that indicates so.  :donno:

Edited by Mu3lam, 30 August 2013 - 09:09 AM.

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#20 ImAli

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:03 AM

If I was raped I would have an abortion and do it secretly....I wouldn't even let anyone know the rape resulted in pregnancy.



#21 Hajji87

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:10 AM

No!!! Abortion is allowed in extreme situations but burying children alive is not allowed in Any situation whatsoever!

 

Such as?

 

I can't see how abortion in this day and age should even be an option.

 

I believe it's just as bad as burying your child alive. 

 

 

If I was raped I would have an abortion and do it secretly....I wouldn't even let anyone know the rape resulted in pregnancy.

 

What in the world??? 


Edited by lebsyeda87, 30 August 2013 - 09:10 AM.


#22 ImAli

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:13 AM

 

 

 

 

What in the world??? 

 

 

I was answering this

 

 

That's hardly a solution to anything, Go through 9 months of labour and pain for an illegimate child of a man who raped you.  :lol: Grow up.

 



#23 El Cid

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:29 AM

 

 
Excuse me?  I'm the one that needs to grow up?  No, I think it's you.  Your ignorance knows no bounds, does it El Cid?  What do you think that the raped women have done for thousands of years?  Oh yeah.  They went through 9 months of pregnancy (oh wait, labour doesn't last for 9 months ... you aren't in the medical field, are you?) and then labour and childbirth whether they wanted to or not.  Is it fair?  No.  Is murdering an innocent child going to even the score and make things better?  Of course not.  Life is sacred and everybody has a right to it.  If there was an illegitimate (you spelled that word wrong, by the way) child in the jahilliya period, then it would have been buried.  In modern times, abortion is the new burial.  Shall we see what the Qur'an has to say about such things?
 
إذا الشمس كورت
وإذا النجوم انكدرت
وإذا الجبال سيرت
وإذا العشار عطلت
وإذا الوحوش حشرت
وإذا البحار سجرت
وإذا النفوس زوجت
وإذا الموءودة سئلت
بأي ذنب قتلت
وإذا الصحف نشرت
وإذا السماء كشطت
وإذا الجحيم سعرت
وإذا الجنة أزلفت
علمت نفس ما أحضرت
 
Do not get me wrong, I have the utmost compassion and sympathy for women that are raped.  Rapists deserve nothing but the most painful death imaginable.  And if I knew a woman that was raped, I would do everything in my power to make sure that she was taken care of; physically and emotionally.  Rape is a living hell, and I understand that.  I just don't think that it's a justification for murder.  But maybe it's just me.  I don't know why, but somehow I get the feeling that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì agrees with me.  Maybe it's the Qur'an that indicates so.   :donno:

 

 

I live in the 21st century, I don't really care for the Dark ages of arabia nor have any particular fascination with what went on. Spelling errors happen on the internet, No big deal. And like I said, My views won't change on this case. I am pro-Abortion, I would recommend it to anyone and everyone in the worst cases as I stated above. But here you go. Have some water for the burn areas my post caused you. Courtesy of Switzerland.

 

bottles.jpg



#24 Ruq

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 10:29 AM

Until a fetus is viable outside the body it isnt 'someone elses body', its entirely dependent on the females body to survive and so is in effect an extention of her body. If the fetus's continued growth is judged to be detrimental to the health of the female most marja's and most sane people would not suggest that she should be forced to continue with the pregnancy. The mothers health takes priority for a reason; there is clearly not an equality between the mother and the fetus growing inside her.


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#25 Mu3lam

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:00 PM

Until a fetus is viable outside the body it isnt 'someone elses body', its entirely dependent on the females body to survive and so is in effect an extention of her body. If the fetus's continued growth is judged to be detrimental to the health of the female most marja's and most sane people would not suggest that she should be forced to continue with the pregnancy. The mothers health takes priority for a reason; there is clearly not an equality between the mother and the fetus growing inside her.


Abortion is not allowed after the implantation of the [fertilized] ovum [on the lining of the womb], except if the mother’s life is in danger. In this case, it would be permissible to abort the foetus as long as the soul has not entered into it; after the entering of the soul, it is not permissible at all.

From Sayed Ali Sistani's Q&A.

subhan'Allah, I didn't know that Sayed Sistani was insane. subhan'Allah.

I live in the 21st century, I don't really care for the Dark ages of arabia nor have any particular fascination with what went on. Spelling errors happen on the internet, No big deal. And like I said, My views won't change on this case. I am pro-Abortion, I would recommend it to anyone and everyone in the worst cases as I stated above. But here you go. Have some water for the burn areas my post caused you. Courtesy of Switzerland.
 
bottles.jpg


I have proven to you that abortion is haraam, both from the Qur'an and from an Usuli scholar's opinion. If you still disagree, please change your religion on your profile to something besides Shia Islam. Anortion is not allowed in Shia Islam except if he mothers life is in danger, and even then it is impermissible after the soul enters.



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