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Agreed there should be unity. I wish there would be unity between all Muslims, but hey, we can work at things one step at a time lol. Ignorance is the disease of society though. The Prophet (pbuh) had a very open heart, you could ask him anything, and us as Muslims should strive to follow his example and the examples of the Imams rather than using fallibility as an excuse for our wrong doings. The fact is that a lot of Muslims instead of trying to discuss things, they jump to the attack or the defensive rather than trying to understand others. Islam advocates the use of our rationality and by being open-minded, we can learn, understand and develop our faith more. This is a problem that needs to be combatted inshallah with education.

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(bismillah)

Dear brothers and sisters.

Lately I have noticed that Shiachat and it's members, including me have changed for the worse. Shiachat in itself is just a website, but it is also the biggest shia community. Granted that it is digital, but in todays day and age, it is equally reflective and mirrors what shias believe and how they behave than it does in physical life. Perhaps even more.

However, we are in a bad spot here. I am talking about the behavior and conduct of shiachat members, and their lack of understanding the effects of their words. Both how it affects other shias and how it looks in the eyes of our enemies. I am saying shiachat member, because I myself am a member and take equal part in this act.

Asalamu Aleikum, we have never thinked on The birth of Imam Ali(as) inside the Kabba, every muslim turn towards the same Holy House during the prayers. Why this happened? I am sure if v think on this Issue We will surely be respecting each other.thanks, & Prayers for Ur Sucess Some points:

1. Issue: We are constantly criticizing the Ulama. Now this in itself is ok, but everyone knows by now that it has gotten way out of hand. We all have different marjas, and we all have different opinions on their actions. But that does not give us the right to cause turmoil in public. Shiachat, is public, and the worst thing we can do is to show the enemies of AhlulBayt that we have such low opinions about each other.

It often turns into personal insults and really bad behavior in the name of criticizing. What this does is create hatred towards each other, and nothing.....NOTHING, pleases the wahabis more than this. I have witnessed now from a discussion that i had with a wahabi that we are in bad shape. He specifically pointed out shiachat, and i had nothing to defend our behavior with. It truly broke my spirit, hence me making this thread.

1. Solution: No matter how the Marjas behave and how much we disagree, we must remember we are in the same camp. Marjas are our generals and we are the soldiers. The generals might disagree, and some generals might misbehave. But that does not give us the right to disrupt the peace between ourselves. The only thing we have in this world is Allah, Ahlulbayt and our brothers and sisters in faith.

Let us now focus on creating threads that show the unity we have. Let us create threads that are intellectual and smart in purpose. Let us create posts and threads that promote Shia Islam, not tare it down. This is what discomforts the wahabis and whoever is against the Ahlulbayt. This is what causes their despair and strikes fear in their heart, our strong unity.

If we happen to create threads that show sings of getting out of hand, it is the responsibility of every shia to respond with respect and behavior that the Ahlulbayt has taught us. Speak gently, and if someone disagrees, then respond respectfully and with dignity. If someone does go out of hand, let's all join in and stop such behavior.

I am certain, that when Imam Mahdi looks upon our behavior as of late, and i am sure he does, he is extremely disappointed. There is nothing wrong with holding back and controlling what you want to say.

Let us respect each others marjas and ulama, no matter how much we disagree, and show the world that we stand united regardless. I know it might sound cheesy, but this is the way it should be. If you don't believe in the Marja of your fellow brother or sister, at least believe in the brother or sister themselves and love them mainly because they love AhlulBayt. This is the code of Ziyarat Ashura!

2. Issue: Nationalism! Even though we perhaps never mention the nationality that we have a problem with, the undertone is there. What is this nonsense? Since when did Allah or Ahlulbayt love anyone for their passport and place of birth? It is clear as day that we have issues with nationalities, and sometimes it comes off as a joke, but any sane person that understands linguistics and how it is used, will see that there is a nationalistic tension between members.

2. Solution: Again, it is the responsibility of shia members to stop this. Everyone must join in and firstly correct their on behavior, secondly be smart and noticing such things, and finally speak out in a proper manner about it.

3. Issue: The urge to answer. We can see that sometimes someone creates a thread about Yasser Habib, or Nasrullah, or Shirazis, Khamenei, Hezbollah, Iran, Iraq, etc etc. And we have this urge to show our disgust with the article or case that the thread starter is presenting.

3. Solution: Control your urge as much as you can. You don't have to answer negatively to it every time, there is no purpose to it other than starting a big mess.

I am not ordering, i am merely asking in the name of Allah and everything that we hold dear, namely the AhlulBayt whom are dearer to us than our parents and our lives that we start changing. Pitch in and be constructive. Our main enemy is wahabis whom are killing Shias day in and day out, and they laugh and point their dirty fingers at us. This is the platform we can use to do our part in showing that no matter how much we disagree on certain issues, we won't let them have the pleasure of seeing it or taking joy from it.

I hope you take this into consideration.

Wasalam

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There's not much unity among Shiites when a few mods on here allow posters be it Shiite or Sunni to post propaganda about our religious beliefs and values and then go as far as ban users that haven't violated any rules or go as far as threaten them with great anger. I've seen some great user leave the forums because of these reasons. If there is to be unity get rid of the trolls that are obvious trolls who either want to damage the representation of Islam or even Shiites through a smear campaign, advocate haram/contradictory beliefs (obvious ones that is), or advocate haram agenda.

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Salam alaikum

Yes,there is not much unity amongst Shia Muslims both online and offline.Really am fed up of the absence of unity in bigger terms.But then we should wait for a miracle to happen,shouldn't we?

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I don't think unity is possible.

A saying I stick by is:

"For every man there is a different religion."

And it's clear that even those that follow the same marjah have disputes.

Rather than unity. When you project your views do not be ignorant of the opposition. That's where the flaw is in most forms of debate.

Aristotle or Plato said that "debate is healthy" when referring to deliberative democratic set up. And I agree. However a debate takes into account both sides.

To attack a religious view is acceptable. But to attack a person because of his religious views is shear stupidity and a form of conceding an argument.

Basically. Everyone thinks they know too much. But in retrospect. Everyone lacks knowledge (Including myself) and even marjahs have limited knowledge. (I do taqleed. And heavily respect my marjah and others. Do not try blow that out of proportion)

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Salam

Ahhh unity... im not sure it's possible and that's due to many reasons the first being how judgemental the majority of shia are these days. From prayer to marriage everyone feels the neef to judge...for example from personal experience if your salat aint 100% cause you forgot a rakah or you simply dont know the right way people are instantly willing to say"dosent pray thats why he doesn't know"... or when looking for a wife you have a check list 1.pretty 2.green eyes 3.tall 4.... the list goes on but lets face it we never look for the good girl the true mu'minah... she dont need to be pretty or skinny she needs to be a genuine muslim...STOP JUDGING and START TEACHING...

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Senseless insults and bickering back and forth is extremely counter productive, but a strong indicator of how civilized any society is how the general public holds its leadership accountable, especially when authority figures are in the wrong. This is how we move forward, not by simply sliding difficult questions under some rug of unity, instead we have to tackle them seriously, that is without the sensationalist and irrational shouting back and forth. One of the biggest reasons muslims in general have not progressed is because we find it difficult to criticize ourselves and our leadership in a constructive fashion.

Anyhow I agree with the general sentiment in your post, most discussions and arguments here are counterproductive, and I doubt much will change in the foreseeable future.

I want to say that I agree with the first statement, but I disagree with the last.

I believe progress is always made when people talk to one another and get to know one another... it increases understanding of one another.  It may not show right away, but much better that we all be talking, than fighting...

and I think it is important to be seeking unity of all people who choose belonging to God... unity among all human beings... and not just among shia.

Salaam.

Quoting 'Your Not My Marjah', but with one small change

 

To attack a religious view is acceptable. But to attack a person because of his religious views is wrong.

Edited by CLynn

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I deperately need the verification from an Iranian about the allegations levelled by my sunni friends. They say that in Iran, the sunnis are dealt discriminately. They are not allowed to open up mosques where thay can pray their way. The important seats in the country are not for sunnis.

I think that these allegations become unimportant when we acknowlege the world outlook or Iran. I also think that there is no country keeping ideal situation. In this critical time when America has become a wild boar controlled by Israel in respect of muslim countries, there is no country to challenge it, but Iran. And this biggest fact lets all issues unimportant about Iran.

But please please please, let me verify the allegations about internal affairs of Iran regarding sunni community.

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Salam

Ahhh unity... im not sure it's possible and that's due to many reasons the first being how judgemental the majority of shia are these days. From prayer to marriage everyone feels the neef to judge...for example from personal experience if your salat aint 100% cause you forgot a rakah or you simply dont know the right way people are instantly willing to say"dosent pray thats why he doesn't know"... or when looking for a wife you have a check list 1.pretty 2.green eyes 3.tall 4.... the list goes on but lets face it we never look for the good girl the true mu'minah... she dont need to be pretty or skinny she needs to be a genuine muslim...STOP JUDGING and START TEACHING...

 

 

I don't think unity is possible.

A saying I stick by is:

"For every man there is a different religion."

And it's clear that even those that follow the same marjah have disputes.

Rather than unity. When you project your views do not be ignorant of the opposition. That's where the flaw is in most forms of debate.

Aristotle or Plato said that "debate is healthy" when referring to deliberative democratic set up. And I agree. However a debate takes into account both sides.

To attack a religious view is acceptable. But to attack a person because of his religious views is shear stupidity and a form of conceding an argument.

Basically. Everyone thinks they know too much. But in retrospect. Everyone lacks knowledge (Including myself) and even marjahs have limited knowledge. (I do taqleed. And heavily respect my marjah and others. Do not try blow that out of proportion)

Assalamu Alaikum

 

 I do not see it impossible to have unity among us. Actually, for being united it is not necessary for everyone to have the same view and opinion, rather having commonalities in our fundamental beliefs should be enough. It is the exact approach presented by Quran through inviting followers of all Divine religions towards unity: “Say," O People of the Book! Come to a word common between us and you: that we will worship no one but God, and that we will not ascribe any partner to Him, and that we will not take each other as lords besides Him.” (3/64).

 

One can has his own different opinion but at the same time works for the sake of unity among his brothers and sisters by insisting on common points and respecting each other’s differences. Therefore, for now It is enough for us to gather upon Shia fundamental common beliefs which no one deny it -i.e. regarding Ahlulbayt as true leaders of Islamic nation. The next step should be taken only in accordance to the advice of Quran:  “Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good advice and dispute with them in a manner that is best”. (16/125)

 

 No one has right to insult another, especially our Sunni brothers and sisters. We are not here to fight each other, rather to benefit. And we have to take it in account that Quran dose not let us to insult anyone, even the pagans’ idols: “Do not insult those they appeal to instead of to God, lest they insult God as an enemy without even realizing it” (6/108)

 

I think by following those above Divine guidances, we can make ShiaChat a role model for other religious discussions forums, InshaAllah.

 

Wasalam

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Salam alaykom all,

It is very wrong to think that unity is impossible, because it will automatically close all the door and we cannot achieve it just because we think it's impossible. Unity may never be achieved until Imam Mahdi's reappearance, and this is because of those people who think it is impossible.

Firstly, if it was impossible Quran wouldn't mention ' o you people of the book lets consider our commonality and worship the true one god'.

Unity does not mean that we should follow the same Marja or have exactly same view In Everything. If someone in order to bring unity disregard something that his marja has said or disregard a mostahab act, it's as if this person has rejected his whole belief system. In Islam unity means to see our commonality and appreciate each other based on that, and our differences should be discussed intellectually and these discussion should be in order to search for the truth not to win an argument for the sake of an argument. Who thin the shia world the differences among our scholars, should not be open to public and having anyone trying to convince others about it, in fact these differences are in general beyond our understanding of Islam. If we are not expert in a field then we are not qualified to give opinion and discuss these issues, one of our problem is that, when we don't know something we go after an expert on that field, but when it come to Islam we all become scholars.

Today Zionist are united when they are facing a common enemy, Wahabis are united. Why is it that they can achieve it but we can. I think it should start from the Hawza, our scholars should remove people who are not qualified as an Islamic scholar but they call themselves scholars, because often it's these people who brings negativity in shia unity. Then the scholars in the shrines of our Imams should be well chosen, and whenever it is the time of prayer everyone in the holy shrines, mosque or Islamic institution should pray before one Imam, not ten or more. Then the normal people should just focus on the commonality rather than differences.

Sorry for the long response

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Being a young member,...(by young I mean in sense of membership in fact by age also probably  :shifty:)  I totally agree with you and your raised issues.

 

Unfortunately it is a dilemma of Shia's all over the world that they are not united unlike UAE, US or UK. lol...

 

In my poor little advice any member or user commenting over the limits using disgraceful and humiliating speech against the marjah's or other great leaders should be instantly banned.

 

Your 2nd issue Nationalism: Honestly this one is really very funny for me. Believe me or not its not just the Shia's in fact all of the Muslims they are insanely deemed under this evil called Nationalism. In my personal experience once up on a time I use to meet Muslims from different countries living in Europe but I donät do this any more. You can call me arrogant or what so ever but the truth is I feel misfit with them because of there pathetic thoughts. I am really sorry I am not offending anyone may be its just me. If you talk to them they will tell you the stories how great there country is or how bad this (Foreign) country is despite with the fact that they are living here for the past 30 or 40 years. I am sorry to say but I think they have super self complexes about there countries and it becomes even terrible when they start living into another foreign especially European or other world outside there own.

 

In my opinion there is no solution for it, only if they realize by themselves. The purpose of Shia Chat is to create harmony among each other I believe, not just in between Shia's which is actually much desirable but also between other believers and also non believers. 

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Once again I am sorry if my words hurt anyone,   

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Why not giving importance to "Unity among Muslims" rather than to "Unity among Shias"? or Shias and Muslims are two different things?? I believe that being Shia is the second step and the first step is being Muslim... I didn't read the whole post. The title seemed biased to me so I couldnt read it all. If the author show some wisdom and make the posts so that those who are not Shias read the knowledge enriched posts and don't leave the posts because of their names.. I hope you remember the Tale of "Sulah Hudaibiya", Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) had the second part of "Bismillah" because the Kuffar, with whom the pact was being made, were not familiar with the names "Rahmaan and Raheem".. so those Muslim who are not Shias will see it inconvenient or difficult to read a post with "Shia" as its name.. I think that using the word "Muslim" or "Momin" will help all the Muslims and Momins, and also it will deny the concept of Sects (Firqa) as said in Qura'an Hakeem

 

"Wa`tasimu bihablillahi jamee`an wala tafarraqoo".

"And hold fast by the rope (covenant) of Allah all together and be not disunited"....

(Quraan: Sura Aal-e-Imran, Ch 3 Ayat 103)

 

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Why not giving importance to "Unity among Muslims" rather than to "Unity among Shias"? or Shias and Muslims are two different things?? I believe that being Shia is the second step and the first step is being Muslim... I didn't read the whole post. The title seemed biased to me so I couldnt read it all. If the author show some wisdom and make the posts so that those who are not Shias read the knowledge enriched posts and don't leave the posts because of their names.. I hope you remember the Tale of "Sulah Hudaibiya", Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) had the second part of "Bismillah" because the Kuffar, with whom the pact was being made, were not familiar with the names "Rahmaan and Raheem".. so those Muslim who are not Shias will see it inconvenient or difficult to read a post with "Shia" as its name.. I think that using the word "Muslim" or "Momin" will help all the Muslims and Momins, and also it will deny the concept of Sects (Firqa) as said in Qura'an Hakeem

 

"Wa`tasimu bihablillahi jamee`an wala tafarraqoo".

"And hold fast by the rope (covenant) of Allah all together and be not disunited"....

(Quraan: Sura Aal-e-Imran, Ch 3 Ayat 103)

 

in reference to line 4-5-6: I hope you remember the Tale of "Sulah Hudaibiya", Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) had the second part of "Bismillah" erased from the paper of the pact because the Kuffar, with whom the pact was being made, were not familiar with the names "Rahmaan and Raheem"

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Why not giving importance to "Unity among Muslims" rather than to "Unity among Shias"? or Shias and Muslims are two different things?? I believe that being Shia is the second step and the first step is being Muslim... I didn't read the whole post. The title seemed biased to me so I couldnt read it all. If the author show some wisdom and make the posts so that those who are not Shias read the knowledge enriched posts and don't leave the posts because of their names.. I hope you remember the Tale of "Sulah Hudaibiya", Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) had the second part of "Bismillah" because the Kuffar, with whom the pact was being made, were not familiar with the names "Rahmaan and Raheem".. so those Muslim who are not Shias will see it inconvenient or difficult to read a post with "Shia" as its name.. I think that using the word "Muslim" or "Momin" will help all the Muslims and Momins, and also it will deny the concept of Sects (Firqa) as said in Qura'an Hakeem

"Wa`tasimu bihablillahi jamee`an wala tafarraqoo".

"And hold fast by the rope (covenant) of Allah all together and be not disunited"....

(Quraan: Sura Aal-e-Imran, Ch 3 Ayat 103)

(salam)

(facepalm) .... Okay, now that is out of the way, first read the post which you clearly did not do. In addition, and more towards what you're hinting at, why don't you just copy and paste your post except you should say, "Why not giving importance to "Unity among Muslims" rather than to "Unity among Sunnis"? or Sunnis and Muslims are two different things??"

And post it into a thread on KFC/sunniforum.com; convince them into a possible unity with the shia and when/if you do, then believe me you will not have anywhere nearly as difficult of a time trying to convince Shias to unify with sunni's. Why?! most of us already believe in it!

(wasalam)

Edited by kbsquare

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(salam)

(facepalm) .... Okay, now that is out of the way, first read the post which you clearly did not do. In addition, and more towards what you're hinting at, why don't you just copy and paste your post except you should say, "Why not giving importance to "Unity among Muslims" rather than to "Unity among Sunnis"? or Sunnis and Muslims are two different things??"

And post it into a thread on KFC/sunniforum.com; convince them into a possible unity with the shia and when/if you do, then believe me you will not have anywhere nearly as difficult of a time trying to convince Shias to unify with sunni's. Why?! most of us already believe in it!

(wasalam)

I am talking about the use of the words. if u talk about "Shias" only then other sects will not give any heed to what u r saying,and Muslims include other sects also.. if u use the word "Muslim" then other sects will also listen to u, then its upto them wat they listen from wat u r telling.

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I agree that there's a lot of personal attacks on SC that need to be stopped.

And I don't think saying rude things about scholars is acceptable, either, but we do need to have the freedom to criticize maraja's decisions when we disagree. I think healthy discussion is important as long as we can keep it respectful.

What is it that Wahhabis see in SC that is so bad? If anything I find a huge diversity of perspectives, even if some brothers get rude sometimes. And speaking of brothers, I wonder if the demographic of SC makes it more prone to argument. I may be mistaken but I sense that it is predominantly unmarried males? Sorry if this sounds rude, but I think this could explain a lot of these issues we're having.

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Yes, I agree too.  I guess for a while, I've been pretty harsh and aggressive towards people, and I probably should have just let things go.  But I always had to counter.

 

It's much easier to do over the internet though.  This place is an outlet for people's subconscious, where they express themselves in ways they normally can't in real life.  Inhibitions are lifted.  Craziness happens.  If I didn't have this place, i would just be screaming at a blank wall instead. 

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I normally don't post much anymore because I'm quiet stuck in the middle, being a revert that dived into Sunnism going to deep and in that process finding Shi'aism diving to deep then had to just take a step back and try find my feet and try understand how to be a Good Muslim..

 

I have to admit Good post because I read allot on the forum and do not message allot....

 

Just a word to All Shias....When I reverted I got into Sunnism allot where I did find it frustarting because its hard to agree to disagree, but one thing I loved so much about Shiaism is that they actually seem as 1 group, and that always were willing to Agree to Disagree...

 

Even though I don't class my self as a Sunni or a Shia..I know how it feels to Love God, The Prophet and His Family...and I respect the Shia because I know that extra Love for the family can bring every dispute every disagreement in a forum like this and make you all ONE.

 

Good on the guy who made this POST =]

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Who says we are not united??? Definetly we are united you can see at any crucial time shias will b found united. Yes there is a little number of black Lambs in our community, they look only for selfishly advantage. But does not matter...

V r united.

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Salam

 

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but I though all shiaa was the same. Like we have all the same thoughts and rules etc. How do we differ and who are the different schools?

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