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Sunnis. Do You Believe That Killing Shias Is Halal

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Call it a propaganda video now.

Hey I watched the video, considering what Saddam did to the Shias i'd consider it what normally happens after a violent change of government, like what happened to Pakistani sympathizers after the fall of Dhaka or what happened to Najibullah after the conquest of Kabul by the Taliban. This violence by Shia is deplorable and was condemned by Shia ulema and it seems to have died down pretty quickly. Its still nothing compared to the regular indiscriminate attacks on Shias by Sunnis in Iraq, the silence regarding those massacres by the Sunni religious authorities is very telling. And remember the worst Shia led violence happened when the Sunni extremists targeted the mausoleums of the Imams.

Edited by JimJam
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If you ever bothered to read the international news the Shias of Iraq seem to constantly be the victims of Sunni terrorist attacks with hundreds of innocent people being massacred every month. Yet the Iraqi Shia majority never seems to retaliate by massacring Sunnis.

And its Syria its a Sunni majority secular army fighting the mainly Salafist insurgents, who seem want to carry out a genocide of an entire people.

Well I think Akabar is right to some extent, you people never seem to condemn the massacres like the one carried out in Karachi on Sunday, you never condemn the past crimes against Shia muslims by your people and even avoid any mention of the crimes against the ahl-e-bayt in the 'golden age' you like so much. You avoid history as if its something unclean. If you are satisfied with these atrocities old and new then you make yourself a part of the crime. Just like the Quran declares the Jewish nation culpable in the crime of killing the prophets.

you people? lol brushing everyone under the same brush? i have good shia friends no.....they are like brothers, killing is HARAM whoever does it and i dont want to get involved in this [Edited Out] thread!!!!

may Allah swt keep the killers of INNOCENTS AND THE WEAK in hell forever wether they ae shia or sunni

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i dont wanna get involved but this is comical

hahahahahhaha lol haahahahaha ,sorry, i had to laugh there.

Comical? Do explain.

You are just playing with the facts. Shias are as prone to spreading violence as much as Sunnis are. May be Shias are more prone due to the fact that they have been historically persecuted by the Sunnis so if they get a chance now , they shall settle the scores. The atrocities of Shias in Iraq are well know and well documented (this does not entail that Sunnis of Iraq are innocent). Same is the case in Syria. Both Shias and Sunnis are blood thirsty and both wait for the right time.

Call it a propaganda video now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt1_kT6Skj4

Are you aware of the history of Sunni attacks on Shia over the last 400 or so years?

Shia atrocities in Iraq? You are comparing the retaliatory attacks of an oppressed group to the calculated and planned atrocities that Sunni have done to Shia throughout history?

you people? lol brushing everyone under the same brush? i have good shia friends no.....they are like brothers, killing is HARAM whoever does it and i dont want to get involved in this [Edited Out] thread!!!!

may Allah swt keep the killers of INNOCENTS AND THE WEAK in hell forever wether they ae shia or sunni

If you didn't want to get involved in the thread then why did you post in it ?

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Comical? Do explain.

If you didn't want to get involved in the thread then why did you post in it ?

your comment............

The world will be a better place without you on it. Believe me, the world is a better place with even one Shia in it as compared to a million of your kind in it.

lol

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your comment............

lol

I stand by my comment. The world is a better place with one Shia in it, than a world full of extremist Sunni.

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I get what your saying. Parents have to be obeyed as well, but Allah SWT qualifies that.

That verse that was provided to you about olel amr pertains to the structure of divine religious hierarchy as their orders are absolute.

It's not the same as Islamic governance in the daily life of a Muslim, from his/her home and outside in terms of general affairs such as parents, city laws, etc. There are many places where Allah SWTqualifies whom you can obey, but not in [4:59].

The verse clearly states whom you should obey, and they are those in authority who abide by Allah and the Messenger. The verse clearly states this.

I've said this before, it's common sense, if the 'authority' was divine, the verse wouldn't need to say refer to Allah and the apostle because the authority is divine itself.

Do you just base your interpreation only on one verse and leave other verses. Are you telling me that God says its ok to obey a sinner. Lets say I agree with the idea of yours, even then your point does not prove anything since amongst the people, cant there be an infalliable amongst the people. Please think about this. Also it says refer it to Allah and his apostle since its the prophet who has brought the law and given it to the people. The Imams do not have any authority to bring or change the law.

You can present any other verses which are used to justify 12 divine Imams, they all have been clearly explained.

For the sake of argument, let's say "authority" means infallible (sinless) authority. Are you okay with that? The problem here is that there is no physical divine authority present to obey. While the Quran clearly states to obey the authority amongst you, but a divine Imam is not present hence Quran is not speaking of a divine Imam, otherwise the Quran would be contradicting reality.

It's simple logic.

Quran says to obey an authority amongst you,

Divine authority is not present,

Therefore the verse is not referring to divine authority.

I stand by my comment. The world is a better place with one Shia in it, than a world full of extremist Sunni.

Now you added the word "extremist" to sound a little better. ^_^

Edited by Ugly Jinn
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Hey I watched the video, considering what Saddam did to the Shias i'd consider it what normally happens after a violent change of government, like what happened to Pakistani sympathizers after the fall of Dhaka or what happened to Najibullah after the conquest of Kabul by the Taliban. This violence by Shia is deplorable and was condemned by Shia ulema and it seems to have died down pretty quickly. Its still nothing compared to the regular indiscriminate attacks on Shias by Sunnis in Iraq, the silence regarding those massacres by the Sunni religious authorities is very telling. And remember the worst Shia led violence happened when the Sunni extremists targeted the mausoleums of the Imams.

You just made a considerabaly long jump. Earlier you were claiming that Shiasm is a religion of peace and it does not go against the so called Shaariat e Muhammadi. Now , after the video , you are giving me examples that how such Shia terrorism can be justified. Take a long breath and imagine that there are countless Sunnis just like you who play with the facts and twist them exactly as how you played and twisted now. Both you Shias and Sunnis are doomed to a lunacy of shedding each other's blood and it won't stop no matter what.

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وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نَبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ بَعَثَ لَكُمْ طَالُوتَ مَلِكًا ۚ قَالُوا أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لَهُ الْمُلْكُ عَلَيْنَا وَنَحْنُ أَحَقُّ بِالْمُلْكِ مِنْهُ وَلَمْ يُؤْتَ سَعَةً مِنَ الْمَالِ ۚ قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَاهُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَزَادَهُ بَسْطَةً فِي الْعِلْمِ وَالْجِسْمِ ۖ وَاللَّهُ يُؤْتِي مُلْكَهُ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

[2:247] Their Prophet said to them: "Allah hath appointed Talut as king over you." They said: "How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?" He said: "Allah hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: Allah Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things."

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You just made a considerabaly long jump. Earlier you were claiming that Shiasm is a religion of peace and it does not go against the so called Shaariat e Muhammadi. Now , after the video , you are giving me examples that how such Shia terrorism can be justified. Take a long breath and imagine that there are countless Sunnis just like you who play with the facts and twist them exactly as how you played and twisted now. Both you Shias and Sunnis are doomed to a lunacy of shedding each other's blood and it won't stop no matter what.

Was I claiming absolute pacifism of Shiism? No. There are times when you have to take up arms to protect your people.

Did I say that the violence shown on that video was justifiable? No, i said it was deplorable and was condemned by Shia religious authorities (something that is never done by Sunni religious authorities when their people kill innocents) and that such acts by Iraqi Shias died down pretty quickly. I also told you how this kind of violence is common between Sunnis in nations where there is a violent change of government. To single out militias from the long oppressed Iraqi Shia as some special kind of monster is not fair. Never did I say however that those men in the video are justified in murdering and torturing innocents.

But what I said was that you cant compare Shia violence with Sunni violence, they are both on a separate scale, one side only reacts when it struck by a major atrocity, the other just kill and kills and kills with such genocidal glee that you wont find parallels for it outside of Sunnism.

Edited by JimJam
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But what I said was that you cant compare Shia violence with Sunni violence, they are both on a separate scale

This is the only meaningful thing that you have said , rest are polemics and rhetoric. You just proved what i was saying. Shias are as eager to massacre the Sunnis as Sunnis are but they are at the lower hand in some parts of the world. You can make you scale and adjust the crimes of Shias into it. At the end of the day , none of you is against violence.

Edited by saima.bukhari

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Well saima,i agree,we can not live together and we should not,shias do not fall under "people of Book" according to sharia,so i dont see how we would accept them in our sharia community(that we do not have btw :D).But i am glad there are no shias here where i live

Do you know that Shia Iran helped in saving your backs from the Serbs? They even used to send weapons to you.

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This is the only meaningful thing that you have said , rest are polemics and rhetoric. You just proved what i was saying. Shias are as eager to massacre the Sunnis as Sunnis are but they are at the lower hand in some parts of the world. You can make you scale and adjust the crimes of Shias into it. At the end of the day , none of you is against violence.

You only hear what you want to hear

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Do you know that Shia Iran helped in saving your backs from the Serbs? They even used to send weapons to you.

So? should i change religion for that,or what is your point

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^why are you here? You are not contributing anything

Edited by JimJam

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At the end of the day , none of you is against violence.

That's a bread sweeping statement which is false and based on your personal opinion.

Many of us are against violence. I personally do not condone it in any form. However, to say an oppressed group will not lash out when given the chance is illogical. That's the scenario playing out in Iraq (and eventually will happen in Pakistan too). That was the example you originally used in regard to the situation in Iraq.

Do I condone the Shia lashing out? No, I don't.

Do I understand why they are doing it? Yes.

At the end of the day an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind and that is exactly what is happening today.

i have too much free time

Head over to Sunniforum. They'll welcome you with open arms. You'll find many friends there.

On a side note, I can't help but find it ironic that a Bosnian Muslim would speak the way you do. Weren't you guys trampled under a similar boot heel as Shia are today? Are you old enough to remember the Srebrenica massacre? Hard to believe that a member of an oppressed minority can have such beliefs.

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I think most of us need to realise that just because a website or group has Sunni in it, it doesn't necessarily mean they are the Orthodox Sunnis, and not Wahabis/Salafis. Wahabis/Salafis do also consider themselves Sunnis and they are grouped as a sub-sect of Sunnism so it's quite possible that these groups are actucally just Salafis.

Now would you look at that! This thread that someone posted:

[URL Edited]/index.php?showtopic=18473&st=0

They are actually blaming the Pakistani Shias of being terrorists who have killed innocent Sunnis and claim that the killings of Sunnis are just a retaliation (Qasas)?! Seriously, where do they get their facts from?

No Scholar ever said to kill Shia and the verse that brother Saleh quoted should be a sufficient answer. Killing Shia, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Ahmadi is without a shred of doubt FORBIDDEN in Islam. This is a an extremist Khariji Rafizi mentality to kill people because of their beliefs.

Did he just accuse us of having a mentality that allows killing ourselves? o.O

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On a side note, I can't help but find it ironic that a Bosnian Muslim would speak the way you do. Weren't you guys trampled under a similar boot heel as Shia are today? Are you old enough to remember the Srebrenica massacre? Hard to believe that a member of an oppressed minority can have such beliefs.

Lol how are you even able to be compared to us? jews are,yet i am not into jews today,bosniaks are sunni muslims and as all other muslims they too have their prejudice against shias

I dont like wahabis,but i am more against shias,thats your average sunni ;)

Edited by bosnian-77

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So? should i change religion for that,or what is your point

Instead of thinking Shias for helping you, you ignorantly say that they should be banned from Muslim countries.

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well to be honest most of our help came from Turkey and Saudi Arabia

but thanks to Iran too,i mean religion has nothing to do with politics,they did not help us as shias but as people and there are sunnis in Iran too

Edited by bosnian-77

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well to be honest most of our help came from Turkey and Saudi Arabia

Clearly, the Saudi money came with propoganda as well.

Have you ever met a Shia? How did you learn about our beliefs so well that you hate us? Do you even know our beliefs or are you just basing it on what someone has told/taught you?

I'm curious to know how a Muslim in Bosnia would come to hate Shia the way you do when most probably there are next to no Shia in your country.

Please list what it is you hate about Shia and where you got that info from. Also, have you bothered to confirm if what you have been taught is actually true?

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Well saima,i agree,we can not live together and we should not,shias do not fall under "people of Book" according to sharia,so i dont see how we would accept them in our sharia community(that we do not have btw :D).But i am glad there are no shias here where i live

Of corse we don't fall under the category of 'people of the Book' you Jahil, because we are Muslims.

Why are you glad there are no Shias?

And by the way, ignorant little laymen like yourself are in no position to declare us as non-Muslim when your Sunni Scholarship have stated we are Muslims (not that we give a dam what you people think or say...).

Please tell me what we believe that would take us out of the fold of Islam?

I dont like wahabis,but i am more against shias,thats your average sunni ;)

Why, do you even have a reason?

How many Shias do you know?

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well to be honest most of our help came from Turkey and Saudi Arabia

but thanks to Iran too,i mean religion has nothing to do with politics,they did not help us as shias but as people and there are sunnis in Iran too

You're like the Christians who "learn" about Islam from Christian websites.

Edited by Robin Hood

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Clearly, the Saudi money came with propoganda as well.

Have you ever met a Shia? How did you learn about our beliefs so well that you hate us? Do you even know our beliefs or are you just basing it on what someone has told/taught you?

I'm curious to know how a Muslim in Bosnia would come to hate Shia the way you do when most probably there are next to no Shia in your country.

Please list what it is you hate about Shia and where you got that info from. Also, have you bothered to confirm if what you have been taught is actually true?

Their lies about our sahabah,about Aisha r.a etc are more than enough for us to hate you

I dont know many shias,but i know what they believe

Edited by bosnian-77

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Their lies about our sahabah,about Aisha r.a etc are more than enough for us to hate you

I dont know many shias,but i know what they believe

OK, have you bothered to look into why we say what we do?

What our reason is for what we say ?

Also, is that all that you know about Shia?

You're more than welcome to hate us. In fact, there are a lot of things we do that don't make sense until you bother to find out why we do it. We don't blatantly slam all of the Sahaba or Aisha for no reason. There's a reason why we do it. We're not idiots to do the things we do or say the things we do if we didn't belive in the validity of them.

Go to Al-Islam.org and find out why we do what we do. At least then you'll know why you hate us instead of just blindly hating us.

again......HAHAHAHAHAHA ....WAIT A MINUTE..... "extremist sunni" now? hahahahaha ......its still funny and killing me ........no.......(before you start getting happy).... i mean literally!!!!

joker of the thread lol

Do you have anything of substance to contribute to this thread or are you a general pain in the...?

Edited by Naz_

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Do you have anything of substance to contribute to this thread or are you a general pain in the @$$ ?

lol i only answered to your STUPID comment "one shiite is better than my kind?" ( which will be.....1.5 billion) but then you changed your mind because of your folly to......sunni extremists so now i am done and thanks for giving me a good laarrrfff

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Their lies about our sahabah,about Aisha r.a etc are more than enough for us to hate you

I dont know many shias,but i know what they believe

How do we lie about Aisha?

She fought against Imam Ali (as), insulted Khajidha behind her back (when she was dead to be precise) having the audacity to say to tell the Prophet (sawa) that Allah gave him someone better (her) in Khadijah's place, she was also threatened with Divorce in the Qur'an, lied against Messenger and conspired against him.... Shall I go on?

How are these 'lies'? These are solid facts that even you cannot deny...

Edited by Ali Musaaa :)
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How do we lie about Aisha?

She fought against Imam Ali (as), insulted Khajidha behind her back (when she was dead to be precise) having the audacity to say to tell the Prophet (sawa) that Allah gave him someone better (her) in Khadijah's place, she was also threatened with Divorce in the Qur'an, lied against Messenger and conspired against him.... Shall I go on?

How are these 'lies'? These are solid facts that even you cannot deny...

Did Ali r.a curse her? nope,so who are you to curse the one the prophet saws loved? or who are you to curse Abu Bakr r.a? did Ali r.a curse him? nope

anyway,she was a woman like any other women,there was jealousy going on between the women,so?

and the war thing,the fitna was between the sahabah ,not for us to judge

Edited by bosnian-77

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Did Ali curse her? nope,so who are you to curse the one the prophet saws loved? or who are you to curse Abu Bakr r.a? did Ali curse him? nope

anyway,she was a woman like any other women,there was jealousy going on between the women,so?

and the war thing,the fitna was between the sahabah ,not for us to judge

Yeh... Lets pretend and forget anything ever happened between the Sahabah and act like everything was rainbows, cupcakes and everyone held hands, smiling... What deluded idea and piece of history you lot have conjured up.

No, you are wrong. It is for us to judge. What's the point in studying history if you are just gunna sit there and say 'let's not judge'? We are students of history, we have the right to judge, to scrutinise and draw lessons and conclusions. This 'let us not judge' defence is just a pathetic attempt to avoid discussing all the fitna they were involved in. Everyone is going to Jannah but they fight and try and kill each other? Wow...

The 'war thing'? Wow, subhanAllah. You act like it was a minor incident... Thousands of innocent Muslims lost there lives because Aisha and other so called Companions who were promised Jannah went to fight Ali (as).

Do you accept that the Truth will never fight against the Truth? How do you accept Aisha was right and so was Ali at the same time?

Btw, cursing and Lanat are two different things. Some Marja have even issued fatwa's against cursing because its not in our School. Lanat is something different. Certain people deserve to have Lanat sent on them for what they did.

So normal woman, lie to their husbands, conspire against them, start wars against their own family, in this case the cousin and son in law, the husband of his beloved daughter? Do they also insult and degrade their husbands previous wife who passed away and have the audacity to say that she is better than her?

No, I think you would agree the answer is.

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All i know is that Ali r.a had a totally different stance,and they are just humans at the same time as they are the first generation of muslims,who lived with prophet.So yes mistakes happened and yes it does not change the fact they are all promised jannah.Its like when parents fight and after death you dont choose side,you try to remember the positive things

Yes women tend to lie and be jealous on previous wives,its called female jelousy.Even prophet commented it

Edited by bosnian-77

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